Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Since it's an inevitability that EC will be getting its own army, what units would you like to see be added to it? Fulgrim, Noise Marines and a new Lucius are a given, so what else should be added? For me, it would be:

Unique bike unit: This has already been rumored. I would love to see some form of biomechanical, creepy-looking bikes with the riders fused to them, armed with sonic weapons.
Unique Possessed: Similar to Eightbound, it would be cool to see some unique EC Possessed, preferably on 40mm bases and about the same size as regular Possessed to allow for kitbashing. Maybe they could have a more lithe, graceful body type, as opposed to the bulkier Possessed and Eightbound type.
Julius Kaesoron Daemon Prince: He could be the EC's answer to the Lord Invocatus.
Sonic Dreadnought: I'm somewhat mixed on this. While this is an iconic unit that needs to be brought back, I wouldn't want it to be added at the expense of the standard Helbrute.
Unique cultists: Normal humans working for the Emperor's Children aren't going to just be guys with weird gas masks and guns, but insane body horror slaves. There's a lot of potential for some very disturbing stuff.
Chaos Lord/Sorcerer on Steed: This could come in a kit where you can either build it or instead a Lord/Sorcerer on one of those Slaaneshi bikes I mentioned earlier.
Unique daemon engine(s): It would be cool to have a unique daemon engine with a Slaaneshi twist, possibly having a more liquid/graceful look, maybe with the ability to mess with enemy auras and morale.

I don't really need my EC (well, Slaaneshi marine who aren't fluffed as EC) to have a lot of new units. I mostly just want:

* Sonic dreads. Which could just be a weapon option rather than a new datasheet. Maybe the option to stick sonic weapons on a few other units in place of the usual special/heavy weapons, though I'm not sure how you'd do that without new kits.

* Fluffy and evocative sonic weapon rules. Some sort of detachment mechanic for letting you do something neat by crossing the streams of multiple sonic sonic weapons maybe?

* A detachment for combat drugs. Something reminiscent of how 3rd edition dark eldar drug dispensers worked could be cool.

* The option to field Slaaneshi daemons with the marines because honestly their abilities compliment one another really well. Plus, y'know, fluffy.

* A fluffy army-wide rule. Something less awkward than daemonic pacts.

* Fulgrim.

If anything, I kind of hope they don't go crazy with a bunch of bespoke units because I feel like trying to subdivide chaos into a bunch of different codices has probably done them more harm than good overall. Plus, y'know, bloat. You do you, but personally I feel like we don't need unique possessed for the same reason Space Wolves don't need Grey Hunters and Long Fangs in place of tactical marines and devastators.

After the complete Flanderisation of the World Eaters, I'm not even sure I want an EC book.

But I want Doomrider, but taken seriously and not done as a meme.

Let's cover the obvious bases shall we?

- Noise Marines
- Some sort of Noise Terminator
- Chaos Bikers (Just normal bikers so that they can use it as a excuse to update the aging CSM kit)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
After the complete Flanderisation of the World Eaters, I'm not even sure I want an EC book.

That's my biggest concern. The World Eaters Codex was such a low-effort phoned-in job I'm actually glad EC didn't get their own Codex at the end of 9th.

I want to see a good roster of units and not just a handful that equates to less than half a Codex. In all likelihood we'd get a proper Noise Marine kit, probably with a couple of extra weapon options. A Phoenix Guard Terminator unit would be good, as would some sort of sonic dreadnaught and maybe some fast-moving unit like bikes. Other than that, I think many of the current CSM units would still work, either as they are or as the basis for EC units. Possessed are fine as-is, I think. The same applies to Chosen, though maybe they'd get some EC-specific option. Most vehicles should still be an option.

I think in many ways less is more here. Don't strip out loads of stuff available in the CSM Codex for no reason, and just add in the key units that differentiate EC from regular Chaos. Also, remember that there's more to Slaanesh worship than sonic weaponry and bewbs. Things like Phoenix Guard and other units obsessed with martial perfection can fit the theme well, without being ludicrously mutated or focussing solely on the Noise Marine side of things.

A variety of Noise Marines.
Like a drummer. And a keyboard player. A horn player.
And a singer.
Maybe a DJ....
Who says all Noise Marines must play a guitar-bolter?
Thinking of the guitar player, I definitely want a guitar-flamer!


I want to mount these guys on a kitbashed Land Raider serving as a mobile stage. It's sponson weapons will be large speakers.

If they can mix the Fury Road speaker rig with some of the more lithe AoS stuff then I think it could work.
It needs to not just be Noise Marines with Noise Marines + or kinky versions of Heresy units.
I think they need to go for speed as the archetype so something like Centuar-esque Marines would be really cool IMO.

I want uncanny valley, not bewbs hur dur, I want the models to look a bit off, like say a Phoenix guard terminator that looks completely uncorrupted, perfect but its all slightly off centre, arm slightly too high in the shoulder, one eye slightly bigger than the other, things your brain notices but you do not quite get why its wrong.

I want subtle alongside garish, hellraiser cenobite next to the perfect warrior.

The AOS stuff has pulled this off very well I would say with Sigvald being that uncanny valley, the more you look at him the more you notice he is just a bit off.

Get ready for non-sonic Noise Marines to get purged.
No Possessed because the studio models aren't pink.
Probably some random Slanngor unit.
Four characters who are slight variations on generic units, but pink.

 Gert wrote:

I think they need to go for speed as the archetype so something like Centuar-esque Marines would be really cool IMO.

See, I want the speed side of things to come from some Slaaneshi daemons. I know that the Mark of Slaanesh used to grant a bonus to initiative, but I always took that to be more of a matter of heightened senses/reflexes rather than literal super speed. Think Dare Devil, not the Flash. Rather than making new centaur marines, let's just have easier access to our existing centaur-esque fiends of slaanesh.

As Slipspace said, I think less is more with the EC. (Ironic, I know.) From the stories I've read that feature them, they seem to have access to all the usual CSM units. Those units might have a Slaaneshi twist on them, but that's probably more of an aesthetic thing than something that needs to be represented by a unique datasheet. (See above about Grey Hunters and Long Fangs.) Like, EC land raiders can just be land raiders, I don't need a custom kit that for a land raider stuffed to the gills with sonic weapons. I kind of just want to give my squad leaders drug dispensers, maybe put the occassional sonic weapon on a vehicle, and to have daemonettes hanging out with noise marines.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

 Gert wrote:

I think they need to go for speed as the archetype so something like Centuar-esque Marines would be really cool IMO.

See, I want the speed side of things to come from some Slaaneshi daemons. I know that the Mark of Slaanesh used to grant a bonus to initiative, but I always took that to be more of a matter of heightened senses/reflexes rather than literal super speed. Think Dare Devil, not the Flash. Rather than making new centaur marines, let's just have easier access to our existing centaur-esque fiends of slaanesh.

As Slipspace said, I think less is more with the EC. (Ironic, I know.) From the stories I've read that feature them, they seem to have access to all the usual CSM units. Those units might have a Slaaneshi twist on them, but that's probably more of an aesthetic thing than something that needs to be represented by a unique datasheet. (See above about Grey Hunters and Long Fangs.) Like, EC land raiders can just be land raiders, I don't need a custom kit that for a land raider stuffed to the gills with sonic weapons. I kind of just want to give my squad leaders drug dispensers, maybe put the occassional sonic weapon on a vehicle, and to have daemonettes hanging out with noise marines.

They're not going to bake the daemons in any more than they have for the other legions, so you'll get your 500points to play about with, but they'll be in as allies as an educated guess.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
See, I want the speed side of things to come from some Slaaneshi daemons. I know that the Mark of Slaanesh used to grant a bonus to initiative, but I always took that to be more of a matter of heightened senses/reflexes rather than literal super speed. Think Dare Devil, not the Flash. Rather than making new centaur marines, let's just have easier access to our existing centaur-esque fiends of slaanesh.

You can already take Daemons in CSM armies (both generic and God-aligned) and EC aren't going to get Daemons in the Codex outside of a Princes.

As Slipspace said, I think less is more with the EC. (Ironic, I know.) From the stories I've read that feature them, they seem to have access to all the usual CSM units. Those units might have a Slaaneshi twist on them, but that's probably more of an aesthetic thing than something that needs to be represented by a unique datasheet. (See above about Grey Hunters and Long Fangs.) Like, EC land raiders can just be land raiders, I don't need a custom kit that for a land raider stuffed to the gills with sonic weapons. I kind of just want to give my squad leaders drug dispensers, maybe put the occassional sonic weapon on a vehicle, and to have daemonettes hanging out with noise marines.

When the Codex comes out the only generic units EC will retain are vehicles and possibly Lords/Sorcerers. Everything else will go. The initial release will be an HQ, Noise Marines, Cultist equivalent, and a Terminator equivalent minimum unless GW does this properly (which I don't believe for a second will happen) and EC gets a good release.

I suspect you're right, Gert. I was just sharing what I'm hoping for rather than what I expect. <3

Palatine Blades. "Generic CSM but with sonic weapons!" is a start, sure, but is that all the EC are?

 AnomanderRake wrote:
"Generic CSM but with sonic weapons!" is a start, sure, but is that all the EC are?

They're also pink.

Just like World Eaters are red and axes.

Hoping for and expecting are not the same.

My hopes:
Sonic Dread
Bikers
Noise Marines
Prince(both daemon and paisley park versions)
Phoenix Guard
Palatine


My expectations:
TS/DG/WE level of phoning it in and losing all variety

Racerguy180 wrote:
Hoping for and expecting are not the same.

My hopes:
Sonic Dread
Bikers
Noise Marines
Prince(both daemon and paisley park versions)
Phoenix Guard
Palatine


My expectations:
TS/DG/WE level of phoning it in and losing all variety

Putting my GW hat on:

- Legit
- Vanilla unit, but expect a fixed loadout, so 50/50 but not this release wave
- absolutely a given
- not a chance in hell
- maaayyybbbeee
- here's a cool chosen conversion!
- have a bonus primarch!

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Palatine Blades. "Generic CSM but with sonic weapons!" is a start, sure, but is that all the EC are?

It's not, "all they are," but I feel like a lot of the cool aspects of EC lend themselves better to special rules/detachment abilities/wargear options for existing squads rather than new units. As I understand it, EC basically use the same sorts of units as most other CSM. Maybe those units tend to be dressed in pink and sprouting tentacles instead of fly eyes or bird beaks, but the basics are the same. Like, I'm not sure EC terminators behave so differently from every other chaos terminator that they need a special kit and bespoke rules. You could give them possessed that act like chunky, pseudo-slaaneshi daemons, but I'd personally rather we just use the normal possessed and actual slaaneshi daemon units. You could give their predators the option to take hallucinogenic gas launchers, but I wouldn't want to see a piece of the release schedule and shelves in the store dedicated to that.

Basically, the normal CSM units are mostly fine for representing EC. It would be cool if they maybe had slightly tweaked rules to nod to their Slaaneshi-brand tactics (different spells on the sorcerer for instance), but I don't want to see an EC-exclusive Slaaneshi Sorcerer kit that invalidates my existing sorcerer if I want to use EC rules.

I expect a unit of "duelists". Haughty sigvald types with "handsome squidward" type faces and really fancy swords in intricately ornate power armor - maybe a character unit, call them the three bolterteers or something.

Of course there needs to be noise marines and terminators or whatever, I expect a "Kakaphoni" type unit armed fully wiht sonic weapons (as opposed to noise marines that would carry bolters with sonic special weapons).

Regarding guitarboi - I hope that if they include instrument-themed weapons they go for something more classical/orchestral than a modern 3-4 piece band type setup. Something about the guitar/modern instruments makes it too kitschy and campy for my tastes.

Ah, but respectfully, chaos0xomega, those duelists could probably just be chosen with powerswords (unless chosen no longer have that option?), and last time I checked noise marines already had the option to have a sonic weapon on every model if you want it.

So while I agree that kakophoni and a unit of elite duelists (who have a name that escapes me) should be available in an EC army, I'd argue that we already have the tools to represent them. So while we certainly could get a unit of duelists that are basically chosen with fewer options and maybe a special "duelists" rule, I feel like that might fall into the category of "bloat."

I'm going to disagree with that because a unit is more than just its wargear, it's the rules that go along with it and the army it fits into.

After the WE codex, expecting HH-descended units and even terminators is clearly expecting too much.

So... noise marines, a noise marine LT, a commander that doesn't match any unit type, some cultists, and something weird so we remember its chaos.
And fulgrim, obviously, because every primarch has to be there for random skirmish #23,233

 Gert wrote:
I'm going to disagree with that because a unit is more than just its wargear, it's the rules that go along with it and the army it fits into.

Well, they can be. But the nuances between an EC terminator and a generic CSM terminator need to be significant enough to be worth writing rules for. Like, you can swap out the chosens' Chosen Marauders rule for some sort of duelist special rule. That would be fun and fluffy and redefine their preferred role within the army. But I'm not sure we need a new box of "Phoenix Duelist" models that are basically just melee chosen with an extra datasheet entry.

EC terminators probably behave pretty much the same as Red Corsairs terminators, and that's okay.

The sad part is that Slaanesh has a lot of thematic elements they could play into that goes just beyond Noise Marines, since the whole 7 deadly sins angle is something they should explore in more detail (and something they have definitely touched on more in AoS). It would be cool to see units that have that obsession/compulsion towards one particular sin, so one that is focused on gluttony (could be a potential Chaos Spawn variant), one focused on greed (objective denial/focus), and some of the more prominent sins like pride and wrath could be focused towards support or HQ characters.

Knowing GW though, they'll overdo the whole noise marine aspect to the detriment of all the other parts of the Emperor's Children.

Yeah, the failure to include red butchers off the bat was mind-blowing to me. SOTs were deemed to be distinctive enough to warrant their own kit and unit entry, as were Death Guard and Blightlord Terminators. World Eaters termies with dual chain axes and berserker rules, and phoenix guard terminators or whatever they are called with, I dunno power spears and sonic weapons, both strike me as different enough to warrant kits and inclusion as well, contrary to Wyldhunts pov.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, the failure to include red butchers off the bat was mind-blowing to me. SOTs were deemed to be distinctive enough to warrant their own kit and unit entry, as were Death Guard and Blightlord Terminators. World Eaters termies with dual chain axes and berserker rules, and phoenix guard terminators or whatever they are called with, I dunno power spears and sonic weapons, both strike me as different enough to warrant kits and inclusion as well, contrary to Wyldhunts pov.

See, unless there's something extra special about Blightlords that I'm not aware of, I feel like they probably didn't need to be their own unit. They're basically just power weapon terminators with Disgustingly Resilient, right? You could totally add power spear sonic weapon terminators, and those would probably warrant their own datasheet, but those aren't an established canon thing that's missing from the game are they? Like, if you want to add stuff just to add stuff/because you think it's cool, that's fair. But that's also basically the definition of bloat isn't it?

And then as you add more and more units like that over time, you end up with the marine problem where there are so many units competing to perform the same job, some of them inevitably end up being redundant/second-stringers.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Unique daemon engine(s): It would be cool to have a unique daemon engine with a Slaaneshi twist, possibly having a more liquid/graceful look, maybe with the ability to mess with enemy auras and morale.

House Devine Knights please.

I know, not actually part of EC, but it's the best excuse for producing them that's likely to appear and it's not like GW won't massage the fluff when it suits them.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

 Gert wrote:
I'm going to disagree with that because a unit is more than just its wargear, it's the rules that go along with it and the army it fits into.

Well, they can be. But the nuances between an EC terminator and a generic CSM terminator need to be significant enough to be worth writing rules for. Like, you can swap out the chosens' Chosen Marauders rule for some sort of duelist special rule. That would be fun and fluffy and redefine their preferred role within the army. But I'm not sure we need a new box of "Phoenix Duelist" models that are basically just melee chosen with an extra datasheet entry.

EC terminators probably behave pretty much the same as Red Corsairs terminators, and that's okay.

I somewhat agree. To take it further, the new Detachment system allows for a lot of flexibility around changing how an army functions without changing a single datasheet. If you treat EC as similar to BA/DA that'd probably be fine. Maybe one or two unique units and one character along with 5-6 EC inspired detachments but still with the ability to just play them as one of the regular CSM detachments if you want. If GW are going to insist on a "less is more" approach in the style of WE, I'd much rather they did so by utilising the Detachment system and integrating more closely with the CSM Codex rather than gutting the army and reducing it to a nonsensical collection of a dozen units.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
but those aren't an established canon thing that's missing from the game are they?

Why is that a prerequisite? We're talking about 40k where the company line to canon is "Everything is canon, nothing is true". By that logic nothing new should ever be added to the game because it wasn't "canon" before it got added. No new characters, no new units unless they explicitly are mentioned somewhere else in the background. There goes the Tyranids as a faction, and the T'au, and the Leagues of Votann because they aren't explicitly the old Squats. A solid chunk of the Necron and Ork additions need to go because they weren't "canon" before they got introduced. Actually, at one point Necrons didn't even exist so let's just bin them as well.
We should only ever be given redoes of kits that already exist because they're the only things that are "canon".
Oh, what your army hasn't had a new unit in five years? Sorry, we don't have any "canon" things for them so you'll just have to suck it up I guess.

But that's also basically the definition of bloat isn't it?

"Bloat" doesn't have a definition because to people like you, it means "units that are similar" but to others, it means "there should only be X profiles". It's a meaningless term bandied about by people who really want to say "I don't like new things, everything should be the same as it was when I most enjoyed 40k".

Adding Cult Terminators to the game isn't "bloat". Jesus...