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[quote=Crispy78 811889 11601946 nullThat was how Cornish Pasties originated. They were eaten by Cornish tin miners, who would use the thick pastry seam down the side as a handle so they didn't touch the rest of the food with hands covered with toxic tin compounds. They would eat the rest of the pasty and throw the seam away.

Well after reading all the Mill and here.
It seems most of the people not in the UK are calling all cottage/shepherds pies a shepherds and not varying name by meat correctly.

Which I only read all this from that Ratling Pie being called a Shepherds Pie, which it did not look like as it had crust. And then I spiralled away into all this..

I had to google ratling pie to make sure it isn't a pie made from rats. I'm not sure its what being referred to, but apparently rat pie was a real dish that was eaten in victorian britain, and was made from rats.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I had to google ratling pie to make sure it isn't a pie made from rats. I'm not sure its what being referred to, but apparently rat pie was a real dish that was eaten in victorian britain, and was made from rats.

I think they mean the rumour engine picture showing something that looks a lot like a pie (or maybe a pie-shaped sandbag...) that has a relatively high likelihood of being associated with a ratling model?

OHHHHH yeah that makes more sense.

Still, you now need to live with the horror of knowing your not to distant ancestors probably consumed rat pies.

chaos0xomega wrote:
OHHHHH yeah that makes more sense.

Still, you now need to live with the horror of knowing your not to distant ancestors probably consumed rat pies.

There is a very high likelihood

I've eaten traditional rook pie made by my grandmum, from fledgling rooks freshly shot by my granddad. If they'd eat carrion birds I doubt rat was particularly horrifying!

Was actually pretty tasty. Apparently May 12 was the traditional day for popping off the fledgling rooks as they first left the nest, adult rooks being much less palatable.

People eat Corvids?

I... I need to sit down.

chaos0xomega wrote:
People eat Corvids?

I... I need to sit down.

And if you eat more then one, that’s a murder!

Bad jokes aside, there are a lot of animals that are smarter then we think that puts a lot of people off about thinking of them as “food” Like we have a mental line between “pets” and “food” Obviously everyone has different lines.

I would not even think about crows/ravens/etc as eatable. Obviously, some people (at least historically) do.

I used to host potluck cookouts. You bring it, I grill it. Had friends bring some odd stuff. Got to the point people were being unsettled by some of the options, so I stopped. Specially butchers have some odd things if you go looking.

To be fair, rook pie is probably up there with the more unusual foods I have ever eaten. I doubt I'll ever have the opportunity to eat it again and I'm reducing my meat intake these days anyway.

Very much a historical meal on the way out. I'm pretty sure the family recipe died with my grandmother.

Are local greengrocer/butcher used to make a wonderful game pie (wild mushrooms, boar, pheasant, partridge), not for everyone as it had a really strong flavour.

Danny76 wrote:
Well after reading all the Mill and here.
It seems most of the people not in the UK are calling all cottage/shepherds pies a shepherds and not varying name by meat correctly.

Which I only read all this from that Ratling Pie being called a Shepherds Pie, which it did not look like as it had crust. And then I spiralled away into all this..

This is largely a function of American food being abundant and homogenized over the last 70 years. The rise of the suburbs spelled doom for the small corner shop and the neighborhood butcher was replaced by big box pre-cut meats sealed in plastic or flash-frozen.

Where you do still see stuff like mutton is out in rural areas and small towns or - ironically - upscale suburbs.

As as we've already discussed, Americans generally disdain organ meat - in part because until a fairly recent backlash, our livestock was raised on industrial farms and pumped full of steriods and antibiotics that made liver and kidneys toxic.

That being said, there is a healthy amount of game taken in the States because hunting is a very 'democratic' exercise (i.e. open to anyone, lots of public land). So people who live the lifestyle will eat much more exotic stuff.

While eating actual rat and crow sound pretty bad, there is a creature called a muskrat that lives downriver of Detroit, and there is a legend that the Jesuit missionaries determined that during Lent, muskrat should be considered a form of fish. In recent years, this tradition has been formalized by a annual diocesan proclamation, the reasoning being that while muskrats are not fish, anyone wishing to eat them is doing some serious penance.

As I’ve commented elsewhere (maybe the Firearms thread?) it’s important to keep in mind the UK doesn’t really have a hunting culture like the USA.

What does exist, outside of Rabbiting is essentially highly gentrified. Someone owns the land the Deer inhabit, and they charge people through the nose for the privilege of bagging some.

However, we do still have a pretty thriving Farm Shop economy. There was one maybe 20 miles (a fair distance in UK terms) from where I used to live which amongst other things did the most delicious Marmite Infused sossies. And most, if not outright all, will offer Pies.

Whilst in my lifetime small scale butchers and greengrocers have gone, to be replaced by supermarkets, they do still exist, just in fewer numbers. And any good Butcher will order you in pretty much any cut of meat, from any legal source, as well as pies, sossies, and other meaty treaties.

Though a bit more expensive than Supermarkets, I genuinely don’t believe I’m being snobby or poncey when I say the quality is just better, so you definitely get your value.

Would pasteys be considered a dumpling rather than a pie? You also have things like Pirogi and chebureki which again, sorta dip their toes in both camps.

Also, as an aussie, savory pies all the way for me. Most supermarkets usually stock a good selection of flavours and fillings, butter chicken is becoming commonish?

As per the 1967 Sausage Roll Regulations, pasties are Definately pies.

There are some good online butchers that have good value high quality multipacks that bring higher end meat and pies and suchlike down to normal supermarket prices. If there are no farm shops around, it fills the gap well.

Also you get massive chunks of pretty robust polystyrene into the bargain (and the remains of dry ice packs used for transport)

cody.d. wrote:
Would pasteys be considered a dumpling rather than a pie? You also have things like Pirogi and chebureki which again, sorta dip their toes in both camps.

Also, as an aussie, savory pies all the way for me. Most supermarkets usually stock a good selection of flavours and fillings, butter chicken is becoming commonish?

Offtopic:
Every culture has a dumpling, and they are all good.
/offtopic

Every culture has a dish identical to swedish meatballs.

And every planet has a drink that is pronounced "Gin and Tonic", according to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Why would someone make non-sweet pies if they can make pierogi is beyond my comprehension.

Britain does have Dumplings, but they’re not folded pastry things like Perogi et al.

They’re…well a type of bread, I guess. Made from Suet, Flour and Water.

Done right? They set off a stew to an absolute tee. You can also flavour them with garden herbs.

Cyel wrote:
Why would someone make non-sweet pies if they can make pierogi is beyond my comprehension.

As someone who eats a lot of pierogi and the occasional pie, pies scratch a different itch. You don't get gravy in pierogi.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Every culture has a dish identical to swedish meatballs.

I didn't find any? Beyond export.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Haighus wrote:

Cyel wrote:
Why would someone make non-sweet pies if they can make pierogi is beyond my comprehension.

As someone who eats a lot of pierogi and the occasional pie, pies scratch a different itch. You don't get gravy in pierogi.

Also classic pierogi don't come with sauce.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As I’ve commented elsewhere (maybe the Firearms thread?) it’s important to keep in mind the UK doesn’t really have a hunting culture like the USA.

What does exist, outside of Rabbiting is essentially highly gentrified. Someone owns the land the Deer inhabit, and they charge people through the nose for the privilege of bagging some.

Eh, there are two-to-three other sources of hunted food than the posh hunting you mention.

Firstly, there are still countryside folk who hunt various critters on their land, like my late grandparents. They used to frequently eat rabbit, rook (annually), pidgeon, and the odd game bird that wandered into the wrong garden, their land being a house with a garden. This kind of hunting is disappearing though.

Secondly, gamekeepers for nature reserves regularly cull deer and boar populations to prevent overpopulation due to a lack of natural predators. They typically sell the meat. This is distinct from private estates.

Thirdly, (sort of hunting) fishing is much more widespread than hunting game and a lot of types of fishing allow eating catches (sea fishing and fly fishing, for example). A lot of places require a fishing permit but these are much more affordable than hunting costs. Also much easier to get away with poaching/fishing without a permit.

Not Online!!! wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Every culture has a dish identical to swedish meatballs.

I didn't find any? Beyond export.

It's a Babylon 5 joke

Frequently in the US, people would arrive on the East Coast and then head inland to available land in the Midwest/beyond the Appalachians.

This journey would often take several months, and you would not reach the area you were going to until very late Summer to -mid-Autumn.

They would generally do three things once they arrived on the new land:

1. Build a barn: If the animals your brought with you died, so did you.

2. Plant Squash and Pumpkins. These would be the plants that could grow in time for winter, and get you through the cold season into next spring.

3. Dig a hole in the ground to live in. This was typically the shelter for the family the first year. Then, next year you built a house and left the hole house as storage.

At least, that's what I learned at local historical sites in the Midwest.

Cyel wrote:
Why would someone make non-sweet pies if they can make pierogi is beyond my comprehension.

Because *proper* Gravy.

Thick, unctuous gravy, made from the meat’s juices. Like Beef Dripping, Pork Leakage and Turkey Seepage.

Deglaze that roasting pan with a suitable wine (no, not “cooking” wine. Never cook with a wine you wouldn’t drink, or I’ll set about your face with a hammer) and just a modicum of flour to create the base. Beyond that other literal Stock items and blow your tiny mind gains six different walls in a four wall room.

Gravy. Proper British Defined Gravy is The Dog’s Reproductive Organs.

Please note I am not slagging off USA Defined Gravy. I don’t think I sampled it on my trip to New York. And so I cannot have an accurate opinion, let alone a Hot Take.

But proper proper home made British Defined Gravy is heaven.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Because *proper* Gravy.

Thick, unctuous gravy, made from the meat’s juices. Like Beef Dripping, Pork Leakage and Turkey Seepage.

Deglaze that roasting pan with a suitable wine (no, not “cooking” wine. Never cook with a wine you wouldn’t drink, or I’ll set about your face with a hammer) and just a modicum of flour to create the base. Beyond that other literal Stock items and blow your tiny mind gains six different walls in a four wall room.

Gravy. Proper British Defined Gravy is The Dog’s Reproductive Organs.

Please note I am not slagging off USA Defined Gravy. I don’t think I sampled it on my trip to New York. And so I cannot have an accurate opinion, let alone a Hot Take.

But proper proper home made British Defined Gravy is heaven.

Obviously we are a big country with a lot of different traditions, but that’s not too far from the mark. Any decent gravy is pan drippings thickened with a roux. If you are not getting the fond out of the bottom of the pan, you are missing out, and any cook worth their salt knows this.

Or course, there are other types of gravy. Like a sawmill sausage gravy for biscuits. Fluffy scone like things, not cookies for those of you across the pond. Heart attack on a plate, but so, so very good.

Oh Biscuits I had and *adored*. Very different to Scones, because Scones are quite dense, and Biscuits have a flaky layered brilliant to them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh Biscuits I had and *adored*. Very different to Scones, because Scones are quite dense, and Biscuits have a flaky layered brilliant to them.

I’m not sure if you had something similar over there. I know it’s part of the language drift where we use the same terms for completely different things. Scones, at least the ones I’m familiar with, are not that far off from American biscuits. Usually a bit more rich (more butter and/or cream) but not necessarily more dense. Scones are often sweeter.

They both have a range of flakey and tender, much like pie crusts, to bring us back to topic.

If i recall the gravy from biscuits and gravy is more of like a bechemel with sausage added?