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How do!

Put this in the Old Appreciation Society thread, but I think this will be of wider interest.




Crazy to hear how grassroots it was.


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Quite a lot of stuff in there I was previously aware of. I’m looking forward to part 2.

Was there also a lot of stuff in there that you were previously unaware of?

Fun and informative. Was sad when it faded to black at the end. Give me more!

 Nevelon wrote:
Fun and informative. Was sad when it faded to black at the end. Give me more!

lol same at that fade out. Don’t goooooooooooo!!!

 Alpharius wrote:
Was there also a lot of stuff in there that you were previously unaware of?

I see you spotted my entirely deliberate mistake. 5 points to Gryffindor!


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My favourite factoid is that 40K completely wrecked 3rd Ed Fantasy’s sales really quickly. Also that even pre-buyout and GW becoming what we know today, it was raking in pretty large sums of money.

Roughly adjusted for inflation, you’re talking £30m in today’s money in 1989.

Thanks for posting the video. It is always fascinating to listen to Rick talk about how things evolved with GW.

Is there a part two?

There will be, I assume. I’ve subscribed and will share as soon as it’s up.

That was quite interesting. I really liked WHFB 3rd edition, so it was a bit of a blow to hear Rick write it off from pretty much day one.

Must have been pretty crazy in those early days, Rick slaving over a hot word-processor fretting about deadlines when Haliwall breezes in: "here's 3,000 words". "Where's the rest?" "What rest? See you when I get back from Peru!".

Looking forward to part 2: Evil Rising! The Kirby Years.

I need to get me a copy of 3rd Ed. I want to check it was missing said rules 🤣🤣🤣

"We cobbled the thing together and it needed to be out by five PM, so there was no time to playtest the rules" makes me wonder if this practise is still going strong at GW

This was the era of talking trebuchets for the orcs and goblins, the fun of it all washed away any balance concerns.

BTW - it wasn't 'White Wolf' Rick, it was Stormbringer. Wish I'd kept my copy.

It’s also the reason I’m particularly un-fussed by the wonky nature of GW games. It’s just….always been that way.

Which isn’t an excuse for it mark you! Just why it doesn’t bother me.

 tauist wrote:
"We cobbled the thing together and it needed to be out by five PM, so there was no time to playtest the rules" makes me wonder if this practise is still going strong at GW

Sometimes. Check out James 'Needy Cat games' Hewitt talking about necromunda. First bit tested, everything else bolted on at last minute with no testing and it is somewhat obvious...

 tauist wrote:
"We cobbled the thing together and it needed to be out by five PM, so there was no time to playtest the rules" makes me wonder if this practise is still going strong at GW

It's a company core value. It's part of their KPIs. There's a bronze plaque above the entrance to the design studio to remind them of it every day.

It's the greatest argument ever for community versions of rules. Why the Yaktribe Necromunda, NetEpic version of Space Marine etc are far more rounded (I won't say better!) versions of the games. They just have those hundreds of extra hours of playtesting and balance that the official (original) releases can't hope to replicate.

Although some games which live off balance and suitability for tournaments (KoW or ASOIAF for example) probably make a bit of a better go of it, because they have to and they don't have the decades of goodwill behind them that GW has generated. If they mess up, the customers are just gone.

It's also a good reminder for people with an irrational aversion to "fan rules" that game design is just a normal day job and the people whose work gets into print aren't inherently better at it than anyone else.

Yeah.

Whilst I’ll always remain wary of Fandexes due to wildly varying quality, making up your own rules has always been part and parcel of the wider hobby.

From house rule pre-agreed solutions to known Wonk, to “and I made this myself, from scratch”, they’re entirely valid expressions of passion for the hobby.

Yes right, and it's also worth mentioning that not all fan-produced rules are equal. Something like the current Net Armageddon rules literally had a committee that playtest and update the rules for balance, based on loads of playtesting, tournament results and community feedback. A whole ton of work goes into it, contrast with something that I might scribble onto the back of some toilet paper whilst sat on the bog

I think I’m mostly wary of homemade Replacement Codexes. As in the player isn’t happy with the GW One, so wrote their own.

Those are usually wildly overpowered and staggeringly undercosted. Because writing rules, especially when you’ve as many variables as 40K or AoS, is really really hard to get right, let alone when you as a player have a vested interest in a particular army, or even army list.

Some will turn out really well - but sadly they’ll always be tainted by their underlying, fanmade nature for some.

Whilst I’m not familiar with NetEpic, the fact it’s been going for yonks, and has a loyal following is certainly encouraging.

And we are least seeing GW doing a sort-of living rule book, with regular points updates, errata and FAQ. 10th Ed Codexes get points from me for having a printed QR code you can scan, that’ll take you to the most recent set for that book.

I would prefer a proper Living Rulebook, because that seems the best way. And with digital resources these days you’d think it’d be a doddle. But me? I’ll take what I can get in the meantime.