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chaos0xomega wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Plastic sprues can actually be ground down and used as a filler additive mixed with the pelletized virgin plastic for injection molding. They would do that in-factory as they would want to ensure that they weren't contaminating the mix with material from other manufacturers, as each company basically has their own proprietary plastic mixture.

Up to 5% shredded material is usus in the industry, though they could use more for stuff like their black bases (that includes all their PS with colour batches). That said this is usually done in-process and I doubt they transport sprues around the country - it's just too costly and PS isn't exactly expensive.

A friend (using the term loosely, more an acquaintance) who worked manufacturing for GW said in the past they would go 10% filler.

But again, it was mostly internally generated material such as leftover sprues from outdated product, test shots, defective/unsellable kits, leftovers from internal modeling projects (studio armies, etc.), etc. As you said, it didn't make sense for them to collect and ship the sprues from afar, doing so was not only more expensive but also more environmentally destructive than using non-recycled material. Which is why its surprising to see GW now has this recycling test pilot program. I'm guessing that maybe these are stores that GW delivers product to using its own fleet vehicles and they can return the sprues to the factory using their own trucks when they make their return trip in order to offset the cost and environmental impact.

Wasn't that program not just for downcycling (producing plastic products with inferior quality standards) by another company? I mean, sending packaged kits back would be okay I guess, but I wouldn't use collected empty sprues for anything in the factory - far too much risk of schlieren and foreign material.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/16/run-rings-around-your-enemies-with-the-new-ravenwing-detachment-in-codex-supplement-dark-angels/

Ravenwing! Kinda. Detachment rule doesn't care about bikes or speeders, but the strats definitely seem to.

Also HBMC gets a wish granted- the detachment alters Battleline- its added to Outriders

Nothing to even hint that GW will tackle the overall loss of bikes (and lack of options), and how that impacts RW.

I dont know, I haven't looked into or heard anything about the recycling program beyond knowing that it exists. Downcycling would be a safer use but I'm not sure to what extent that would be actually... helpful? Like the environmental impact of driving around to collect relatively small containers of sprues is surely worse than the impact of just disposing those sprues normally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/16/run-rings-around-your-enemies-with-the-new-ravenwing-detachment-in-codex-supplement-dark-angels/

Ravenwing! Kinda. Detachment rule doesn't care about bikes or speeders, but the strats definitely seem to.

Also HBMC gets a wish granted- the detachment alters Battleline- its added to Outriders

Ahh I was wondering about that. I wonder if that means Deathwing will add battleline to Terminators?

I thought I heard a distant, slightly lazy racially stereotyped wailing and gnashing of teeth from White Scars players.

Funny how it claims objectives are hard to wrest from ravenwing now due to outriders being battleline when battleline just gives you more units to field.

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how it claims objectives are hard to wrest from ravenwing now due to outriders being battleline when battleline just gives you more units to field.

I suspect that's partly because you can add Ravenwing Command squads to Outrider squads because of the new character keyword on the champ.
Suddenly, there's 12 model bike squads roaming around, with defensive strats.
Plus a uniquely horrible aesthetic mix of the antique bike models on the Black knights and the grossly oversized Outrider bikes.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I thought I heard a distant, slightly lazy racially stereotyped wailing and gnashing of teeth from White Scars players.

Remember, space marine nonsense means White Scars can use these detachments. They just can't use any White Scar specific units (hah) when they do.

Except then they are by definition dark angel army. Your chapter keyword will be dark angel.

Of course you can play your white scar models as dark angels. Just like you can play your bloody rose models as bloody martys or night lords as alpha legion. Just like for decade or two.

I think white scars fans have by now realized that they are the red-headed bastard stepchildren of the space marine codex and have been reduced to being another milquetoast Codex compliant chapter. If they want to play WS properly they've taken their armies to HH where they get the respect they deserve.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think white scars fans have by now realized that they are the red-headed bastard stepchildren of the space marine codex and have been reduced to being another milquetoast Codex compliant chapter. If they want to play WS properly they've taken their armies to HH where they get the respect they deserve.

One advantage of having been around so long (with a hiatus for 7 / 8th), to me they always have been a codex chapter.

When I came in around 4th, White Scars were mostly presented as a bike chapter. I don't know if they were labeled as Codex non-compliant/deviant, but the overwhelming depiction is that they mostly rode around fighting from bikes. I found it weird later when they started depicting them as not-bikers.

No different than Iron Hands. Iron Hands had a full supplement detailing how their companies were each independent, more like Space Wolves and could attach terminators to other units as champions.

Then all of a sudden they are codex compliant and the one tiny piece they kept was the concept of an Iron Council. They don't even have proper Iron Father units anymore.

I am a bit confused. Is there two different attributes/special rules, one called Masters of maneuver (plural) and another called Master of maneuver (singular)?

Voss wrote:
Also HBMC gets a wish granted- the detachment alters Battleline- its added to Outriders

But presumably not Deathwing in the Deathwing detachment...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Voss wrote:
Also HBMC gets a wish granted- the detachment alters Battleline- its added to Outriders

But presumably not Deathwing in the Deathwing detachment...

Haven't seen that detachment yet. I'd hope that the same codex would work the same way. Its weird enough to have a paradigm shift this soon, with only a few armies with 10th edition books.

 Flinty wrote:
I am a bit confused. Is there two different attributes/special rules, one called Masters of maneuver (plural) and another called Master of maneuver (singular)?

Looks like it - Detachment rule vs. enhancement. And, yes, that seems daft.

mithril2098 wrote:
as it was AoS caught on so they didn't need to.

I just can't help but think that the biggest reason Age of Sigmar caught on is because it was the 'official' GW fantasy game. While the system is clearly much-improved since release (locals still tell campfire stories about daisy-chaining daemon summoning), it still feels a vastly inferior game to me compared to WHFB. My two biggest dislikes from the first edition are still present: the potential for a double turn, and the stupid random terrain effects.

 Dysartes wrote:
Looks like it - Detachment rule vs. enhancement. And, yes, that seems daft.

The people responsible for those two sections probably never spoke to one another.

They were both too busy manoeuvring around each other perhaps...

chaos0xomega wrote:
When I came in around 4th, White Scars were mostly presented as a bike chapter. I don't know if they were labeled as Codex non-compliant/deviant, but the overwhelming depiction is that they mostly rode around fighting from bikes. I found it weird later when they started depicting them as not-bikers.

Well coming from 2nd ed, I saw them all as codex compliant, even the BA and DA. Only the wolves were considered rebellious enough to have a different structure.

The changes to the codex in angels of death were so minor that they looked like codex compliant chapters.

iirc the only unique units for the BA were death company and veteran assault marines (ultramarines only had vet tac marines iirc).

The DA got immune to psychology on all inner circle (deathwing) models, so all captains and chaplains. They got a ravenwing captain (his only difference from a normal DA captain was he had the ravenwing jink and rider rules, and could mount a land speeder as its driver - normal DA captains could still take a bike).

Deathwing and ravenwing were given special rules, but replaced the standard version of those units in the army (and apart from their special rules were indistinguishable from codex versions). And DA lost veteran squads entirely, because the 1st company only deployed in terminator armour.

White scars appeared in the ultramarines codex along with iron hands.

It wasn't until the index astartes that the white scars looked any different from the codex.

 Hellebore wrote:
White scars appeared in the ultramarines codex along with iron hands.

It wasn't until the index astartes that the white scars looked any different from the codex.

It was mainly down to Paul 'Fat Bloke' Sawyer championing them in White Dwarf that got them enough attention to diversify from the codex a little.

Was excited for inner circle companions but wow that lore is so bad I may skip them. Some of the worst lore I have ever read. 40k needs to step up the writing a bit.

The article pretty clearly puts Talonmasters out of business.
A pretty big reason I don’t like 10th…. My greenwing are old school, and I have a lot of Ravenwing old school. Slowly adding newer DA units but still prefer my older models.

I wouldn't call Talonmasters old school, they were only added in what, 6th or 7th edition? Thats mid-school at best.

Pair of new articles up, one fluff-piece about an upcoming novel focusing on Lazarus:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/17/gary-kloster-interview-master-lazarus-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris-and-his-first-feature-novel/

The other about Deathwing:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/17/battling-with-deathwing-terminators-a-gamers-guide/

Based on the sample army list, it seems likely that deathwing/inner circle detachments will not give terminators battleline.

Boosykes wrote:
Was excited for inner circle companions but wow that lore is so bad I may skip them. Some of the worst lore I have ever read. 40k needs to step up the writing a bit.

The lore about then is in The Lion's BL novel, and is interesting. GW are just being cute about it in the Warcom articles.

 Hellebore wrote:

The DA got immune to psychology on all inner circle (deathwing) models, so all captains and chaplains. They got a ravenwing captain (his only difference from a normal DA captain was he had the ravenwing jink and rider rules, and could mount a land speeder as its driver - normal DA captains could still take a bike).

Deathwing and ravenwing were given special rules, but replaced the standard version of those units in the army (and apart from their special rules were indistinguishable from codex versions). And DA lost veteran squads entirely, because the 1st company only deployed in terminator armour.

There were some more differences. Landspeeders had different weapons (heavy bolter and assault cannon instead of multi-melta and heavy flamer), they and attack bikes could be fielded as squadrons and were bought from the unit section, not as support, you don't needed a Techmarine for them and RW bike squads couldn't take an additional attack bike.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

The DA got immune to psychology on all inner circle (deathwing) models, so all captains and chaplains. They got a ravenwing captain (his only difference from a normal DA captain was he had the ravenwing jink and rider rules, and could mount a land speeder as its driver - normal DA captains could still take a bike).

Deathwing and ravenwing were given special rules, but replaced the standard version of those units in the army (and apart from their special rules were indistinguishable from codex versions). And DA lost veteran squads entirely, because the 1st company only deployed in terminator armour.

There were some more differences. Landspeeders had different weapons (heavy bolter and assault cannon instead of multi-melta and heavy flamer), they and attack bikes could be fielded as squadrons and were bought from the unit section, not as support, you don't needed a Techmarine for them and RW bike squads couldn't take an additional attack bike.

Man, now I need to find the Codex Angels of Death and reread it. This was a lovely trip down memory lane.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
It was mainly down to Paul 'Fat Bloke' Sawyer championing them in White Dwarf that got them enough attention to diversify from the codex a little.

The Mokey's Paw in full effect there. Paul Sawyer loved his Dreadnoughts. Then when White Scars got their own special snowflake rules, they couldn't take Dreadnoughts!

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
It was mainly down to Paul 'Fat Bloke' Sawyer championing them in White Dwarf that got them enough attention to diversify from the codex a little.

The Mokey's Paw in full effect there. Paul Sawyer loved his Dreadnoughts. Then when White Scars got their own special snowflake rules, they couldn't take Dreadnoughts!

Didn’t he come up with the dreadtaur? You know the Rhino with a Dreadnought in place of the crew compartment… which, now I think about it, clearly evolved into the Defiler.

I thought he'd converted some form of flat-bed Rhino to use as a transport for his Dreadnoughts - possibly using the VDR kit, back in t'day - but I could be wrong on that.

If so, you could argue that eventually evolved into the Impulsor...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/18/crusade-pariah-nexus-unlock-upgrades-and-master-a-campaign/