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 CMLR wrote:
I don't know why people always come and say 'EM paintjob is trash, I like it more then ultra gritty, realistic jobs from others. I don't know why but somehow, to me, the reallistic approach goes so hard on the reallistic approach that it starts to look like an imitation of "real".

I don't know if I made sense.

Leggy wrote:
Saw this rumour on discord about the upcoming Balance Dataslate, codexes and detachments.
Can anyone trace it back to its source?

Codices

Codipodes.

EM point jobs do a better job of showing off the model, most of the time. FW goes for a more drab, realistic, look, but can go too far at times into the "real is brown" trope.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:


Codipodes.

EM point jobs do a better job of showing off the model, most of the time. FW goes for a more drab, realistic, look, but can go too far at times into the "real is brown" trope.

What's a Point job? Is that for hunting foxes?


Also, I think the new pain job's are more exciting and fun... not as realistic... but more fun.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:


Codipodes.

EM point jobs do a better job of showing off the model, most of the time. FW goes for a more drab, realistic, look, but can go too far at times into the "real is brown" trope.

What's a Point job? Is that for hunting foxes?


Also, I think the new pain job's are more exciting and fun... not as realistic... but more fun.

It's a less Slaaneshi autocorrect of a Pain job, apparently.

I'm mixed on the DKoK army box. I like the artillery and engineers, horses and lord are take them or leave them. Probably will come down to price, and if the US does end up paying a stupidity tax/tariff by the time it comes out. I do quite like the HW teams though. Twin heavy stubbers on a wheeled mount is kind of peak Kreig Futility feels

Wild speculation based on rumor:

I bet the "legionaries" aren't an upgrade kit or normal CSM. Instead they'll be some kind of horror show flash-grown marines, some Fabius Bile kinda thing. Lesser than normal marines, more than cultists, taken in units of 10-20.

I would also bet that the noise marines/elite swordsmen are built from the same kit. So the 12 in the starter box can be built as 3/3/3/3 or 6/6 or 12.

...with Fabius Bile being in the CSM Codex (as far as I can tell from the tiny print on the GW preview image), are people expecting him to also show up in the EC book?

Isn't Fabulus Bill kind of a free agent these days? Would make more sense to keep him in the book with the posessed and cultists that he experiments on instead of putting him in the EC book, where I assume Fulgrim and Lucius will be.

StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

StudentOfEtherium wrote:and mounts should probably bigger than they previously were, anyway. even normal horses are big, and so mutant soldier horses being bigger is entirely reasonable

Big horses aren't great for combat, despite what Hollywood tells us. They look cool though!

Smaller horses are much more agile and able to manoeuvre in combat, they also need less feed on campaign. A good example would be PRE horses (purebred Spanish horses), one of the oldest formal breeds. They are short and stocky compared to modern warmblood sport horses, but they can turn on a dime. Being stocky, they still have plenty of strength.

Mongolian horses are similar, in fact they are so short they are typically in the height range that would be considered a pony (less than 15 hands) but get honorary horse status because they helped form the largest land empire in history.

see, that's fair, but swords that are chainsaws are also not especially practical in real combat, so i'm a bit ambivalent towards real world practicality when it comes to 40k. guys riding horses is cool, and that's what i care about here

Oh, I am fully on board with Rule of Cool. Big pretty horses are, well, big and pretty. I have one! A 16.3 hands warmblood. But short, stocky horses like the older models are definitely reasonable designs when compared to historic warhorses and probably superior. The actual models had limitations of the time like very chunky legs though.

Overread wrote:I think it depends - combat has a call for horses of all kinds. From drafts to pull carts and waggons for supplies through to lighter faster breeds all the way to what we'd consider a warhorse which is heavier and chunkier and designed to carry an armoured warrior into battle.

By contrast I think the thing was GW old horses were very much designed as horses in proportions (rather than pony proportions) but were sized more like a pony and then had an armoured knight put on top. They just didn't look right.

Now granted a lot of things in fantasy don't look right even when they are actually realistic (take real warhammers being a LOT smaller than fantasy ones). So sometimes we have to accept that reality takes a side step to fantasy tropes.


I think the other thing is posing and style. Fast horses that can turn on a dime isn't something GW could model 20-30 years ago. At least outside of a special one-off resin sculpt; certainly not something rank and file or army boxed set style. So I do also think that comes into play is in showing how agile a horse could be on the battlefield within the model.

I am talking about chargers. The heaviest warhorses from the late medieval and renaissance were short compared to most modern sport horses. A charger needed to be manoeuvrable, especially if it was expected to force its way into an infantry block. Spanish horses pretty much typify the ideal knightly warhorse, and they are short for horses today. I'm struggling to find a good picture to show this. Big horses essentially just lose agility by virtue of their size, the biomechanics just aren't favourable. My warmblood knows exactly where she is putting her feet, but she turns comparatively slowly (good for me as a beginner, much easier to stay seated if something unexpected happens). I've ridden a Spanish horse that was 15 hands and that chap could rotate on the spot with ease (I'm not a good rider so it was pretty disconcerting when he spooked!). He could also comfortably carry 100-120kg, i.e. a fully armoured knight.

 Dysartes wrote:
...with Fabius Bile being in the CSM Codex (as far as I can tell from the tiny print on the GW preview image), are people expecting him to also show up in the EC book?

With Imperial Agents and the upcoming Craftworlds book, GW is seemingly willing to duplicate datasheets across codexes.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
...with Fabius Bile being in the CSM Codex (as far as I can tell from the tiny print on the GW preview image), are people expecting him to also show up in the EC book?

With Imperial Agents and the upcoming Craftworlds book, GW is seemingly willing to duplicate datasheets across codexes.

Regardless, Bile isn’t an Emperors Children character anymore and hasn’t been for years. He’s his own thing. Obviously that could change, but it would be a change, and I hope it doesn’t.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
...with Fabius Bile being in the CSM Codex (as far as I can tell from the tiny print on the GW preview image), are people expecting him to also show up in the EC book?

With Imperial Agents and the upcoming Craftworlds book, GW is seemingly willing to duplicate datasheets across codexes.

...no? The Sisters and Grey Knights units from Imperial Agents may be very similar to existing units in other sources, but they are still different datasheets.

I would not expect Bile in an Emperor's Children book since - while he might be one genetically - he's clearly no longer part of the Legion. He would make far more sense in an Agents of Chaos book than Emperor's Children.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
...with Fabius Bile being in the CSM Codex (as far as I can tell from the tiny print on the GW preview image), are people expecting him to also show up in the EC book?

With Imperial Agents and the upcoming Craftworlds book, GW is seemingly willing to duplicate datasheets across codexes.

...no? The Sisters and Grey Knights units from Imperial Agents may be very similar to existing units in other sources, but they are still different datasheets.

I would not expect Bile in an Emperor's Children book since - while he might be one genetically - he's clearly no longer part of the Legion. He would make far more sense in an Agents of Chaos book than Emperor's Children.

And they could similarly surgically alter Bile's datasheet for a theoretical appearance in his parent legion's Codex. In his own novel series he does spend a lot of time hanging out with them for someone that is no longer officially a member. If nothing else, a 'Clone of Fabius Bile' datasheet to represent a rogue duplicate that's pumping out new legionaries for Fulgrim could be included.

There aren't enough units to fill out a full AoC Codex unless GW suddenly decides to throw all the daemons in there.

Also it doesn't have to be literally Fabius making freaks for EC, they've been shown doing that happily enough on their own before.

Little to no chance I think of either Bile being in the book or the EC Legionnaire squad being vat-grown freaks. They'll just be regular freaks. Also can't see Noise Marines and the rumoured elite unit being the same kit.

Would definitely love to see some evidence of the EC's focus on the Apothecarion (which is strangely lacking from 30k rules as well). Bile shouldn't be in the army, but a Fleshcrafter style character is a no-brainer at some point if not in the initial release.

 Shakalooloo wrote:


There aren't enough units to fill out a full AoC Codex unless GW suddenly decides to throw all the daemons in there.

Chaos space marines are more or less agents of chaos. They got cultists, cultist command, mutants, traitor guard, traitor commisar, mutant ogryn, beastmen, Vashtor, Bile, Cypher. And Daemons are still an option to ally If I recall correctly. Loads of crappy units to spice up your fluff list, just like the lojalist agents.

Christmas bundle boxes are on shelves today.

Local FLGS has two of each, which is nice.

I'd be surprised if Bile is in the EC Codex.

But I think its a fluff miss if there isn't some sort of side-bar that allows you to include him in an EC army. Its hard to believe this is going to somehow break the game.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-us/articles/eiv2zqzc/the-2024-grotmas-calendar/

WarCom has updated & revealed that the first detachment is Death Guard.

At the time of writing this link is dead, but expect it to work in around an hour:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/gnz6ekx8/grotmas-calendar-day-1-grandfather-nurgle-brings-gifts/

Edit: https://assets.warhammer-community.com/grotmas_detachment_death_guard_flyblown_host_eng_01-dyfowogzwd.pdf

Not at all a fan of Nurgle, but that Detachment actually looks pretty damn good.

I can't wait for the other ones.

My Deathguard is very infantry heavy so this has appeal (it’s very much a tertiary army for me). Will definitely give it a try.
I wonder how quick they will be available on app?

That detachment is actually bonkers, cant wait to see what the rwst of the calendar detachments look like. Dark Angels tomorrow!

I wonder when Deathwatch will pop up.

 bullyboy wrote:
My Deathguard is very infantry heavy so this has appeal (it’s very much a tertiary army for me). Will definitely give it a try.
I wonder how quick they will be available on app?

"Early January" according to the Grotmas calendar announcement article, which sounds about right as most UK offices will shut down between Christmas and New year and all new detachments will likely drop in one hit on the app.

Am I reading it right that for a mere 10 points Rejuvenating Swarm makes a character invulnerable unless they can be killed in a single phase..?

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Am I reading it right that for a mere 10 points Rejuvenating Swarm makes a character invulnerable unless they can be killed in a single phase..?

Sure.
How hard is it to kill an Infantry character? It makes Precision less useful, but if your list can’t kill a T5-6 W4-6 character in a phase, your list lacks offense.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Am I reading it right that for a mere 10 points Rejuvenating Swarm makes a character invulnerable unless they can be killed in a single phase..?

Sure.
How hard is it to kill an Infantry character? It makes Precision less useful, but if your list can’t kill a T5-6 W4-6 character in a phase, your list lacks offense.

That's not JUST a T6 character. DG can stack a 2+/5++ save on that, plus some ignores wounds shenanigans. It's a tough nut to crack in a single phase. If it was "per player turn" it would be more manageable. Heck, you likely can't kill them in their turn in melee

I suppose the issue comes from characters in big tanky units.

You take a large terminator squad, stick a tough character in there, that squad attracts quite a bit of fire, you choose to lose a few terminators, then when you gauge the amount still to come, you take it on the lord, he survives and you save 2 terminators that turn.

Chaos lord with a plague surgeon in a large plague marine squad, the plague surgeon is returning models to the squad whilst the lord is self repairing.


It's not ultra tanky, and probably won't swing games by itself, but it is a problem.

How do you "take it on the lord"? Either your opponent is deciding he takes it (Precision) or you're deciding which Bodyguard model takes it (so not the lord).

How long after Christmas does the Red Gobbo Balance Data Sheet come out? Boxing Day?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
How long after Christmas does the Red Gobbo Balance Data Sheet come out? Boxing Day?

...what are you babbling on about this time?