Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The same could be said about a lot of models shared between ranges. Mostly vehicles, but also some characters.

Do GK have wargear options not modeled on the standard generic mini?

 cole1114 wrote:
With the deldar codex, here's a list of remaining finecast minis with rules.

SM: Pedro Kantor, Cato Sicarius
DA: Sammael
CSM: Huron Blackheart
Necrons: Trazyn, Deceiver
IG: Sly Marbo
Orks: Weirdboy
Tau: Firesight Team

Also a side note, referring to the earlier convo of renegades & heretics. And man, the answer is so obvious for this now that detachments work the way they do. A chaos imperial guard detachment that removes commissars and imperial allies, lets you ally with daemons and chaos knights, and has chaos flavor is all you need.

Really they could be doing so much more with detachments. Like marines teaming with guard is one of the most common things in the setting, and there's no detachment doing that? What gives?

Isn't the new Marbo a different type of resin, rather than finecast? FW resin in a specific for resin sprue, rather than one adapted from the old metal models.

Valrak has a rumour that Trazyn, Blackheart and Cato Sicarius have had plastic models made waiting for release for a little while now, and speculates we'll see these released with the 10th ed ending campaign.

Grey Knight Librarian and Techmarine models are literally on their store page.

Yes, it's dumb that they alone have different marks of armour to everyone else in the range, but GW doesn't care about the narrative that much.

 BorderCountess wrote:
Aside from Smash Captains and a bunch of Dark Eldar, I don't think there's a single model with current rules that actually requires kitbashing.

GW does not currently sell Generic Inquisitor.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:
Aside from Smash Captains and a bunch of Dark Eldar, I don't think there's a single model with current rules that actually requires kitbashing.

GW does not currently sell Generic Inquisitor.

Forgot all about them.... I change my opinion to match this one.

In all seriousness, I'm sure there are a few models that have slipped through the cracks.

But I hope they get new toys soon. (I'd love to see a new super epic Sly Marbo... even though his rules are less-than-awesome.)

 Shakalooloo wrote:
GW does not currently sell Generic Inquisitor.

I would wager it's an exception because a couple of random Inquisitor models have been released as special edition kits for WH+ or Anniversaries.

Thousand sons is in the same spot as grey knights with the terminator sorcerer lord, having to rely on the pretty old generic CSM terminator kit.

Also noteworthy that astra militarum have taken named BSF characters as their generic psycher and priest, ending up with pretty large models not entierly in line with the rest of the range.

But sure there are models for sale.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:
Aside from Smash Captains and a bunch of Dark Eldar, I don't think there's a single model with current rules that actually requires kitbashing.

GW does not currently sell Generic Inquisitor.

True, but GW obviously hates Imperial Agents, so they don't count.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:
Aside from Smash Captains and a bunch of Dark Eldar, I don't think there's a single model with current rules that actually requires kitbashing.

GW does not currently sell Generic Inquisitor.

True, but GW obviously hates Imperial Agents, so they don't count.

Crap, she's got us there.

So.... Dark Eldar lost: Named Character, Grotesques, Court of the Archon, Beat Master and beasts.


I'm a bit surprised by the beasts, as there ARE plastic Ur-ghouls.

The rest of the army seems....okayish? Jetbikes and skyboards look good.

Ur-ghuls weren't a beast unit. 1 of the models in the Court of the Archon was an ur-ghul unit, so I guess they could've just replaced the Court with a unit of ur-ghuls, but they are on a shared sprue with other things so its not like they could really sell you that. zero surprises there.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Ur-ghuls weren't a beast unit. 1 of the models in the Court of the Archon was an ur-ghul unit, so I guess they could've just replaced the Court with a unit of ur-ghuls, but they are on a shared sprue with other things so its not like they could really sell you that. zero surprises there.

The 3d files exist. I was expecting an expansion, not a cull. The Court would make a decent Kill Team though. Praying for future expansion.

Also disappointed that Kabalites are limited to 10 man squads. I really wanted 20 man squads back.

With these cuts, doesn't this make DE the smallest army, in unit numbers, in the game? I think even Votann outnumber them now.

I've been wondering how likely it is that missing units will come as a decent release wave in 11.

At first, I thought we'd see them all back, but the more I thought about it, I realized that the Hand of the Archon is a replacement for the Court- it was the similarities between the Disciple of Yaelindra and the Lhamaean that brought it into focus.

And that made me less certain of the Beasts. There's still a decent chance, but it's not a guarantee.

Urien and Grotesques I still believe we'll see.

 cuda1179 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Ur-ghuls weren't a beast unit. 1 of the models in the Court of the Archon was an ur-ghul unit, so I guess they could've just replaced the Court with a unit of ur-ghuls, but they are on a shared sprue with other things so its not like they could really sell you that. zero surprises there.

The 3d files exist. I was expecting an expansion, not a cull. The Court would make a decent Kill Team though. Praying for future expansion.

Also disappointed that Kabalites are limited to 10 man squads. I really wanted 20 man squads back.

With these cuts, doesn't this make DE the smallest army, in unit numbers, in the game? I think even Votann outnumber them now.

I think both knights factions are be smaller, at least as far as codex units go. Possibly Grey Knights also.

Deathwatch are also a faction that exist, though im not entirely sure they count.

If you don't count the Imperial Armor resin, you can add Custodes to the list.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

If you don't count the Imperial Armor resin, you can add Custodes to the list.

Emperor's Children send their regards...

Codex leaks are awful imo.

Probably some power here but feels like the dying whimper of an unloved faction.

"You don't get a special rule. Instead every unit gets a unique not-stratagem that you can activate with your not-CP". Just trash design.

The loss of finecast was inevitable, but gutting for a faction which somewhat uniquely has only shrunk across the years.

Oh well, here's to coping for a big wave in 2027...

Raiders are looking pretty good, but GW keeps doing the army very dirty by removing more and more units. Aside from the overly-bloated Space Marines, has any faction lost more than they've gained?

Somehow the DE codex is even worse than I expected.

And I know it's the least of the books problems, but how is it that the Archon *still* doesn't have any way to recharge his Shadowfield or even just gain a weaker invulnerable save?

Tyel wrote:
Codex leaks are awful imo.

Probably some power here but feels like the dying whimper of an unloved faction.

"You don't get a special rule. Instead every unit gets a unique not-stratagem that you can activate with your not-CP". Just trash design.

You barely get subfaction rules either. 'Oh yeah, I guess you can have a few extra not-CPs to actually use your main rule.'

Welp, there goes my hope for plastic grotesques. I was really hoping they'd get a three-man box with the option to have a liquifier gun on one. But GW couldn't even be bothered with THAT low bar...

Don't worry though - more Marine characters just around the corner!

Maybe we'll get Kill Team 1 Grotesque & 1 Wrack versus 9 Primaris Lieutenants?

I hate that we've lost units, obviously, and I wish our big wave had been this edition. I just finished painting my Court last Wednesday.

Now, I'm hoping that they create Legend Cards for the lost units that update the unit with a PfP ability like other units before they go to Legends, and I hope that those units are brought back in 11th. If they don't, I'll use the Index Cards to field them, even though without a PfP ability, they'll be weaker than everything else in the army, and this will only work for the current edition.

So yeah, I'm disappointed, but this is actually my only real complaint.

 vipoid wrote:
Somehow the DE codex is even worse than I expected.

And I know it's the least of the books problems, but how is it that the Archon *still* doesn't have any way to recharge his Shadowfield or even just gain a weaker invulnerable save?

Okay, as a guy who has the worst luck with Shadowfields and typically rolls the one to burn them out on my very first save of the game, I get you... But this seems to be weird complaint from a guy whose most frequent complaint has been the loss of unique Drukhari wargear; love or hate the Shadowfield, it has been with us since the beginning, and it IS a unique piece of Drukhari wargear. It seemed like a "moving the goalpost" kinda complaint, given that the unit now has some equipment options, including the soultrap, especially since the lack of options has always been your primary complaint.

Tyel wrote:
Codex leaks are awful imo.

Probably some power here but feels like the dying whimper of an unloved faction.

"You don't get a special rule. Instead every unit gets a unique not-stratagem that you can activate with your not-CP". Just trash design.

Gotta disagree here too: everyone else gets one or two army rules that apply to everyone. That's easy on the brain of the controlling player- quick, convenient and simple. But it's also really predictable for our enemies. They now what the army does, and they can mitigate it.

We, however, have a different army rule for every unit unit in the game! Each unit is a swiss army knife with access to a PfP ability, a strat and a datacard ability. I think this is a super creative interpretation of PfP, and I think it probably took more love and design consideration from developers than any of the simpler army rules. I think that we are going to be able to achieve absolutely crazy results that no one will see coming with even basic units.

Now, you can argue that this is going to lead us to that awkward situation where we overperform DESPITE a loss of units. I think there will be a lot of Nerfing applied down the line to mitigate what GW is about to unleash, because people who know how to get the most out of this army will be absolutely unpredictable. You can also argue this is the same problem we've had for three editions now: GW removes flavourful units but doesn't think that's a problem for us because our win ratio is still good. But both of these are separate issues from whether or not the army rule is "good".

 vipoid wrote:

You barely get subfaction rules either. 'Oh yeah, I guess you can have a few extra not-CPs to actually use your main rule.'

Another weird comment? NOBODY (except Space Marines and arguably Chaos Legions) gets subfaction rules this edition, we get detachment rules, and the thing that you have quoted here is only ONE of the detachment rules. My dude, if you hate this ability, just don't use the Realspace Raiders detachment and your problem is solved.

Wyches getting combat drugs back in the form of their detachment's special rule is pretty damn cool and long overdue. And again, you can argue that there were better ways to give that ability back- Ie. on the unit's datacard so that it works no matter which detachment they're in... But that's a separate issue. I'm curious to try the Kabalite Cartel detachment. I'm also curious to see how well units perform in detachments that don't match their identity- so how well will Wyches work in a Covenite Coterie, how well will Coven units work in a Spectacle of Spite, etc. And I think the new PfP is going to play a roll in that.

Final thoughts: In any case, until I have the book in my hands so I can learn how best to use detachment rules in combination with PfP rules, I withhold judgement on everything except the removal of units, which is the one thing that is an unqualified disappointment regardless of all other factors.

 BorderCountess wrote:
Raiders are looking pretty good, but GW keeps doing the army very dirty by removing more and more units. Aside from the overly-bloated Space Marines, has any faction lost more than they've gained?

All of the mono-god chaos marines who were moved into their own dex comes to mind. In general though quite a few factions have had reductions in datasheets with the move from index to codex - for example necrons lost 3 named characters and the generic lord and gained the translocation shroud lord in return.

I've had a quick skim through the DE leaks, and as usual the rules that are there look pretty good - it's always the stuff that isn't there which sucks. It kind of feels almost inexcusable to have units that have been given really competitive rules (like Beastmasters in DE or Kaldo Draigo in GK), only for their rules to be yanked away the very moment they have sold out their last remaining stock. So many of these lost units are easily replaced with other current models with little to no conversions necessary (Kaldor is a GK terminator with a shield, Beastmasters are just a spare Hellion + some Necromunda gribbly monsters) that for a majority of units binned into legends there isn't really any weight behind the argument of some kind of accessibility issue for newer players (I'll admit though that Grotesques are hard to proxy).

 PenitentJake wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
And I know it's the least of the books problems, but how is it that the Archon *still* doesn't have any way to recharge his Shadowfield or even just gain a weaker invulnerable save?

Okay, as a guy who has the worst luck with Shadowfields and typically rolls the one to burn them out on my very first save of the game, I get you... But this seems to be weird complaint from a guy whose most frequent complaint has been the loss of unique Drukhari wargear; love or hate the Shadowfield, it has been with us since the beginning, and it IS a unique piece of Drukhari wargear. It seemed like a "moving the goalpost" kinda complaint, given that the unit now has some equipment options, including the soultrap, especially since the lack of options has always been your primary complaint.

It's sad to see you being this disingenuous. You're usually far more honest in your arguments.

Yes, Shadowfields have been with us since the beginning. Back when they were an option and not just the only possible defence available.

Even the dumpster-fire that was 7th edition gave you the choice of a constant 4++ instead (which was also cheaper to boot), or even no save at all if you wanted a very cheap characrter. Other editions also gave options like Ghostplate armour, or other wargear/artefacts that would give a more reliable save. Now they have nothing. Not even the fething 6++ save that the rest of the army gets by default.

Moreover, Shadowfields came from an era when invulnerable saves were extremely rare. A SM Iron Halo (4++) was one-per-army. And most of the other, non-character units with invulnerable saves had 5++ saves at the expense of having any armour save at all.

But then Storm Shields were introduced. Then Iron Halos and the like became standard on all Captains (and most equivalent HQs).

Yet even as other armies have seen substantial improvements in the availability of invulnerable save wargear, DE are still stuck with a mechanic from back in 3rd.

I would add, too, that I haven't even suggested dropping the Shadowfield effect. What I'm saying is that it would not seem unreasonable for e.g.:
- A failed Shadowfield save to drop the invulnerable to 5++, rather than removing it entirely.
- A failed Shadowfield save drops the invulnerable save completely but there's a way to recharge it (e.g. by spending a Pain Token).
- A failed Shadowfield save drops the invulnerable save completely but the Archon can buy a weaker (e.g. 5++) save in some other form - or can swap the Shadowfield for a constant 4++, giving the player a choice of whether they want to risk it or not (or, heaven forbid, distinguish different Archons by wargear).

Are you seriously telling me that any of those would completely destroy the flavour of the Shadowfield?

 PenitentJake wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

You barely get subfaction rules either. 'Oh yeah, I guess you can have a few extra not-CPs to actually use your main rule.'

Another weird comment? NOBODY (except Space Marines and arguably Chaos Legions) gets subfaction rules this edition, we get detachment rules, and the thing that you have quoted here is only ONE of the detachment rules. My dude, if you hate this ability, just don't use the Realspace Raiders detachment and your problem is solved.

"It doesn't matter that this detachment is complete dogshit because some of the others are marginally less-gak."

Okay. Guess we're also ignoring that PfP used to start you with tokens but now you start with 0.

 PenitentJake wrote:

Wyches getting combat drugs back in the form of their detachment's special rule is pretty damn cool and long overdue. And again, you can argue that there were better ways to give that ability back- Ie. on the unit's datacard so that it works no matter which detachment they're in... But that's a separate issue.

What. How is that a separate issue?

I guess Wyches all just go into rehab if you use literally any other detachment. Such flavour.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Don't worry though - more Marine characters just around the corner!

I know you are only half joking but .....

Possible Calgar leak - if it's fake someone went to a lot of effort - the head is missing as it was circulating as a meme before someone realised what it is.

 DaveC wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Don't worry though - more Marine characters just around the corner!

I know you are only half joking but .....

Oh; I never joke.

 vipoid wrote:

It's sad to see you being this disingenuous. You're usually far more honest in your arguments.

Perhaps when I said "moving the goal post", that tone sounded offensive to you. I didn't think I was rude, and I apologize if I came across that way. I don't know, maybe you're having a bad day. Part of me want's to continue to try and be polite to you and give you the benefit of the doubt, because we've had respectful conversations in the past and because everyone has bad days... And also because disappointment IS justified here.

But another part of me really wants you to grow the feth up and chill the feth out. If someone doesn't explain themselves as well as you'd like, or if they say something you disagree with or want to push back against, going right to "You're a disingenuous liar" is a bit much, don't you think?

I've been interested in Drukhari enough that I've read most of their dexes. I started collecting them in 8th and I started played them in 9th with me playing most of my games with them in 10th. I remember Shadowfields always being there, but I don't remember all of the rules they've had in editions I didn't play; thanks for laying it out in as much detail as you did in the second post. If you had been that clear in the first post, the one I responded to, I probably wouldn't have mentioned it, but the brief post I was responding to really made it feel like you were saying that you'd prefer a flat 3+ or 4+ invul to a shadow field.

In an effort to restore civility to discourse, I'll concede that perhaps I should have asked for clarification about what you meant rather than responding to an interpretation of what you said and getting that wrong.

I don't know dude. I'd respond to other parts of your response here in an attempt at calm and rational conversation, but maybe it's better to just walk away from the damn thread and hope we're both in better moods next time we try to discuss things. Sorry if pissed you off. Sorry I let you piss me off. On the other hand, what's more Drukhari than sharpening verbal knives on each other when really we're both just disappointed in the dex for various reasons?

Time to paint and forget about this crap.

 PenitentJake wrote:

Gotta disagree here too: everyone else gets one or two army rules that apply to everyone. That's easy on the brain of the controlling player- quick, convenient and simple. But it's also really predictable for our enemies. They now what the army does, and they can mitigate it.

We, however, have a different army rule for every unit unit in the game! Each unit is a swiss army knife with access to a PfP ability, a strat and a datacard ability. I think this is a super creative interpretation of PfP, and I think it probably took more love and design consideration from developers than any of the simpler army rules. I think that we are going to be able to achieve absolutely crazy results that no one will see coming with even basic units.

Now, you can argue that this is going to lead us to that awkward situation where we overperform DESPITE a loss of units. I think there will be a lot of Nerfing applied down the line to mitigate what GW is about to unleash, because people who know how to get the most out of this army will be absolutely unpredictable. You can also argue this is the same problem we've had for three editions now: GW removes flavourful units but doesn't think that's a problem for us because our win ratio is still good. But both of these are separate issues from whether or not the army rule is "good".

I mean we moved away from having to learn 25-30 stratagems because it was overly complicated. Why would I want to have every unit having a unique activatable ability? That I have to learn - and my opponent almost certainly never will?
I'm sure with a few games it won't be "that" complicated, but I think its bad design.

Having something be "unpredictable" is not good. I mean stolen from Reddit - but your opponent asks if you have any uppy/downy. Before you just said "yes, Mandrakes have that". Now its "well, technically Mandrakes, but only if I have a pain token".
Do you have advance and charge? Well yes, but only if I spend a pain token on wyches. And it kind of goes on like this.

And also, why aren't these just baseline? Its like the special rule is solving a problem that GW have invented. Your special rule is that you can conditionally get the special rules on your datasheet other factions just get. Have fun.

How good it all is will come down to the points. Its entirely possible various things are undercosted and therefore broken. But that's not resolving the issue of bad design.

Vipoid has sort of gone through it - and I don't want you to feel you are being attacked on all sides. But the detachments seem like an afterthought too.
Compared with the Eldar its pathetic.
But this is the problem when we have to pretend we have subfactions but really we are talking about 3 units. Wyches, Reavers and Hellions meet Wracks, Talos and Cronos.
Have some extra pain tokens is awful. Skysplinter was okay as a FAQ stopgap but feels embarrassing in a proper Codex this late into the edition.
So we have the Kabalite one, which is probably the only interesting one. But obviously it couldn't have worked with the 6 units above, because that would have been game or lore breaking, somehow. And the rules as written suggest that you actively don't want to kill your contract, because then you lose sustained or lethal hits (for 3 pain tokens). I guess you can sort of farm with CP to trigger another - if your Archon Warlord is still alive. Which again just feels like are making hoops to jump through.

 DaveC wrote:


Possible Calgar leak - if it's fake someone went to a lot of effort - the head is missing as it was circulating as a meme before someone realised what it is.

If true that's just about the most ridiculous release in the history of 40k. I can understand why GW likes releasing space marines but even so there's a whole host of other space marine characters that needed a new model first. The current model still fits with the current range, scales well and is a really great model. The new model looks great but replacing the existing model at this juncture feels premature.