Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Strongly disagree. You're never going to stop those people from playing your game and they've always been a tiny minority that the community largely dealt with ourselves by simply not playing with them until they went away or learned to stfu and behave like human beings in public. The problem is, frankly, coddling - nobody's fee-fees are allowed to be hurt nowawadays no matter how unreasonable or disproportionate their demands, and yes I'm aware how grumpy and cloud-shouty that makes me sound but it's true. I hate that the things I enjoy are getting retconned and watered down and genericised to try and appeal to people who largely didn't care about them before and largely still don't care about them after, except insofar as they can feel smug that they made your Action Men have a tea party with their Barbies and Corporate Mummy said they could so neener neener. Previously the starkest example to me is Bretonnia - the 2nd edition of the RPG put a disclaimer in the front of the sourcebook for the faction that basically mocked anyone(quite rightly) who would actually believe that depicting sexism in a fantastical world is the same as endorsing and promoting it IRL, and now with TOW they're rewriting the faction so they aren't sexist at all and putting out novels with bow-wielding ladyknights girlbossing up the place. I play fantasy and sci-fi games to *escape* reality, not attend the same HR seminars they drag you to IRL.
And dag-nabbit, when I play a WW2 game - even a Weird War one - I like blowing up *Nazis*, not Vaguely Authoritarian Mystical Secret Societies That Helped The Nazis Briefly Out Of Convenience.
This succinctly echoes my thoughts on the matter.
AegisGrimm wrote: B. Never once feel bad about not including people who are "just a little too into the Nazi stuff" in my gaming hobby.
I'll be honest, I do scratch my head a little at these concerns.
I would certainly question how many actual Nazis are even still alive, given that it's been about 80 years since the end of WW2.
And if the concern is with people cosplaying as Nazis or that sort of thing, I must confess that I don't feel the frothing hatred or revulsion that many others her appear to. Personally, I just find them quite sad. I find it sad that they are apparently so desperate to keep alive the spark of a now long-dead empire. It puts me in mind of one caught out of time, like those Japanese soldiers who were hiding out alone in remote forests for decades, with no idea that their proud homeland had long since surrendered. Though at least the latter had the excuse of isolation. I find it sad that many of them are not even German, yet apparently feel so detached from their own society that they cling to a long-discarded form of German Nationalism.
Then again, this is all just hypothetical as I haven't actually met one in person. Perhaps if I did, their personality would persuade me to harden my views.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
Rolling 1's for five and a half decades.
AoS * Konflikt '47 * Conquest Last Argument of Kings * Trench Crusade * Horus Heresy * The Old World * Armoured Clash
AegisGrimm wrote: I dunno, I feel like I am mature enough as a wargamer to simultaneously:
A. play a faction including some Nazi material, because in a historical or Wierd War 2 wargame, somebody has to be the bad guys to establish the period theme.
and
B. Never once feel bad about not including people who are "just a little too into the Nazi stuff" in my gaming hobby.
Unless you are just having Americans fight Brits in "practice battles", in a game like Konflict '47 or Bolt Action if some someone is playing Russian, Japanese, or German forces, adult pants need to be worn if you want to approach the fiction and the real-world material it is based upon.
Agreed. Especially about kicking out Nazis.
However I differ from you in a one respect.
While I conduct all my gaming with maturity respect, I deliberately try not to be too "adult pants" about it. In K47 someone has to be the "bad guys" just as when I was a child the grey toy soldier Germans were on the table facing off against the green Americans (and my favorite the tan British). Maybe it's different for historical players but for me it's toy soldiers battling it out in a game that has more in common with army men, Sgt. Rock and Captain America than it does with actual history. It's pulp comic book fantasy fun. Why should it have to be any more serious than that?
I'm just a guy pushing painted toy soldiers across my miniature worlds and I'm fine if my games engage with reality as little as possible.
AegisGrimm wrote: I dunno, I feel like I am mature enough as a wargamer to simultaneously:
A. play a faction including some Nazi material, because in a historical or Wierd War 2 wargame, somebody has to be the bad guys to establish the period theme.
and
B. Never once feel bad about not including people who are "just a little too into the Nazi stuff" in my gaming hobby.
Unless you are just having Americans fight Brits in "practice battles", in a game like Konflict '47 or Bolt Action if some someone is playing Russian, Japanese, or German forces, adult pants need to be worn if you want to approach the fiction and the real-world material it is based upon.
Agreed. Especially about kicking out Nazis.
However I differ from you in a one respect.
While I conduct all my gaming with maturity respect, I deliberately try not to be too "adult pants" about it. In K47 someone has to be the "bad guys" just as when I was a child the grey toy soldier Germans were on the table facing off against the green Americans (and my favorite the tan British). Maybe it's different for historical players but for me it's toy soldiers battling it out in a game that has more in common with army men, Sgt. Rock and Captain America than it does with actual history. It's pulp comic book fantasy fun. Why should it have to be any more serious than that?
I'm just a guy pushing painted toy soldiers across my miniature worlds and I'm fine if my games engage with reality as little as possible.
Except Nazis are a staple of pulp comic book fantasy.
Captain American started off punching Hitler, the main antagonists of Helsing are literal Nazi Vampires, one Nazi Werewolf and are being lead by a Nazi Cyborg, Nazis triggered the events of JoJo Battle Tendency when they awakened the Pillar Men, Indiana Jones fought Nazis in 2 films, Wolfenstein is...well, Wolfenstein.
Saying "Nazis are too serious for a pulp fantasy story" is a bit late, I would think, when a pulp fantasy comic book such as Hellboy exists, where Nazis are in integral part of story and one of the main antagonists.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/08/04 07:02:54
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
I think one issue is that Nazis, unlike say the Ottoman Empire, still exist and there are still folks who'll raise their banner to justify crimes in 2025.
It's a lot like the Confederate States. They may be 150 years gone, but they're really not.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I think one issue is that Nazis, unlike say the Ottoman Empire, still exist and there are still folks who'll raise their banner to justify crimes in 2025.
It's a lot like the Confederate States. They may be 150 years gone, but they're really not.
So do tankies; they defend and justify the crimes of the Soviet Union. Yet the Hammer and Sickle is apparently fine to display, even though I'm sure the Ukrainians and the Poles would have something to say about that.
But that's not the point, as no one here is saying that the Nazis weren't scoundrels. Except, apparently, for Warlord.
Consider the following; In K47, The Soviets are allowed to be bad, the Americans are allowed to be bad now, given that they are a religious fanatical crusading state and I'm going to assume that the IJA are also going to be bad unless corporate decides to soften their image to break into the Japanese market, but the Nazis are no longer allowed to be bad.
Instead their role of villain has been usurped by marketing approved Bad Dudes(TM) who look vaguely like Nazis but aren't because it might offend someone. I don't know who would be offended by Nazis being objectively evil and using literal zombies and warcrime machines, but here we are I guess.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2025/08/04 11:10:28
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
AegisGrimm wrote: I dunno, I feel like I am mature enough as a wargamer to simultaneously:
A. play a faction including some Nazi material, because in a historical or Wierd War 2 wargame, somebody has to be the bad guys to establish the period theme.
and
B. Never once feel bad about not including people who are "just a little too into the Nazi stuff" in my gaming hobby.
Unless you are just having Americans fight Brits in "practice battles", in a game like Konflict '47 or Bolt Action if some someone is playing Russian, Japanese, or German forces, adult pants need to be worn if you want to approach the fiction and the real-world material it is based upon.
Agreed. Especially about kicking out Nazis.
However I differ from you in a one respect.
While I conduct all my gaming with maturity respect, I deliberately try not to be too "adult pants" about it. In K47 someone has to be the "bad guys" just as when I was a child the grey toy soldier Germans were on the table facing off against the green Americans (and my favorite the tan British). Maybe it's different for historical players but for me it's toy soldiers battling it out in a game that has more in common with army men, Sgt. Rock and Captain America than it does with actual history. It's pulp comic book fantasy fun. Why should it have to be any more serious than that?
I'm just a guy pushing painted toy soldiers across my miniature worlds and I'm fine if my games engage with reality as little as possible.
Except Nazis are a staple of pulp comic book fantasy.
Captain American started off punching Hitler, the main antagonists of Helsing are literal Nazi Vampires, one Nazi Werewolf and are being lead by a Nazi Cyborg, Nazis triggered the events of JoJo Battle Tendency when they awakened the Pillar Men, Indiana Jones fought Nazis in 2 films, Wolfenstein is...well, Wolfenstein.
Saying "Nazis are too serious for a pulp fantasy story" is a bit late, I would think, when a pulp fantasy comic book such as Hellboy exists, where Nazis are in integral part of story and one of the main antagonists.
I should have been clearer.
I'm not saying no Nazi minis on the table, (though these days it's probably best to leave off the swastikas) I'm saying approach it as a comic book adventure like Hellboy/Jones/etc rather than some deep issue that needs to be adulted through.
At the same time of course, those who rationalize Soviet and/or Nazi atrocities will not be playing on my tables.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2025/08/04 11:40:55
AegisGrimm wrote: I dunno, I feel like I am mature enough as a wargamer to simultaneously:
A. play a faction including some Nazi material, because in a historical or Wierd War 2 wargame, somebody has to be the bad guys to establish the period theme.
and
B. Never once feel bad about not including people who are "just a little too into the Nazi stuff" in my gaming hobby.
Unless you are just having Americans fight Brits in "practice battles", in a game like Konflict '47 or Bolt Action if some someone is playing Russian, Japanese, or German forces, adult pants need to be worn if you want to approach the fiction and the real-world material it is based upon.
Agreed. Especially about kicking out Nazis.
However I differ from you in a one respect.
While I conduct all my gaming with maturity respect, I deliberately try not to be too "adult pants" about it. In K47 someone has to be the "bad guys" just as when I was a child the grey toy soldier Germans were on the table facing off against the green Americans (and my favorite the tan British). Maybe it's different for historical players but for me it's toy soldiers battling it out in a game that has more in common with army men, Sgt. Rock and Captain America than it does with actual history. It's pulp comic book fantasy fun. Why should it have to be any more serious than that?
I'm just a guy pushing painted toy soldiers across my miniature worlds and I'm fine if my games engage with reality as little as possible.
Except Nazis are a staple of pulp comic book fantasy.
Captain American started off punching Hitler, the main antagonists of Helsing are literal Nazi Vampires, one Nazi Werewolf and are being lead by a Nazi Cyborg, Nazis triggered the events of JoJo Battle Tendency when they awakened the Pillar Men, Indiana Jones fought Nazis in 2 films, Wolfenstein is...well, Wolfenstein.
Saying "Nazis are too serious for a pulp fantasy story" is a bit late, I would think, when a pulp fantasy comic book such as Hellboy exists, where Nazis are in integral part of story and one of the main antagonists.
I should have been clearer.
I'm not saying no Nazi minis on the table, (though these days it's probably best to leave off the swastikas) I'm saying approach it as a comic book adventure like Hellboy/Jones/etc rather than some deep issue that needs to be adulted through.
At the same time of course, those who rationalize Soviet and/or Nazi atrocities will not be playing on my tables.
Fair enough then, I can get behind that.
On the notion of swastikas, it would actually be ahistorical to make excessive use of it for the Wehrmacht, as other than on regimental banners they didn't use it all that much. Now, if it were a Waffen SS themed army, yes one would expect to see those, but the Wehrmacht didn't make much use of them as whilst they were under the command of the NSDAP, they were an older institution and had their own iconography and ideals (hence the recorded disagreements between Heer officers and the SS).
Iirc, Hitler and Himmler actually planned to replace them with the Waffen SS for this reason.
To clarify, I'm not claiming that the Wehrmacht were innocent or the "good guys"; they were still the military might of the Third Reich and whilst I'm sure some of the officers might have been pressured by the NSDAP to carry out atrocities, so were the Cheka when they had to fulfill their gulag quotas. I'm just pointing out that there was a notable division between the Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2025/08/05 14:14:53
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
I really like the look of the Firefly Airborne and the Stahltruppen Heavy Infantry models. I think both kits have some modabilty for other wargames- some alien heads and weapon swaps in those heavy mech suits could be fun for example!
So all the basic fodder troops of the Soviet forces are chicks eh? Fascinating. Guess all the boys got ground down to nothing over the war it seems. Couple of the female poses are carrying on the old stereotype of juiced female olympian powewrlifters i see
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/08/05 18:43:23
Desert Dave wrote: So all the basic fodder troops of the Soviet forces are chicks eh? Fascinating. Guess all the boys got ground down to nothing over the war it seems. Couple of the female poses are carrying on the old stereotype of juiced female olympian powewrlifters i see
In the previous editions lore they are actually DNA enhanced and juiced up, but mostly used as a propaganda unit. I wouldn't read into that picture too much, the current Soviet infantry kit is being redone for Bolt Action and isn't out for another couple months, probably why they didn't use them in the photos.
That ghost warrior looks cool, but I suspect that comment I made about Imperial Japan's image being softened by corporate might be coming true.
They are explicitly at odds with the Axis now and unlike the other articles there's no mention of their atrocities. In fact, I daresay that their article and the British one are the more positive descriptions of their respective factions.
Maybe when the get their actual book it'll dive into some of their more gnarly actions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Desert Dave wrote: So all the basic fodder troops of the Soviet forces are chicks eh? Fascinating. Guess all the boys got ground down to nothing over the war it seems. Couple of the female poses are carrying on the old stereotype of juiced female olympian powewrlifters i see
Those are Daughter of the Motherland, iirc, which are a K47 Soviet elite unit. Basically gene modded women used for mostly for propaganda but also as rift tech weapons wielders. Because if you're going to have an elite propaganda unit you might as well give them your nation's shiniest gear. They aren't meant to be the rank and file.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2025/08/06 12:09:08
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
I like what I'm reading. Seems versatile and story driven, cinematic. Extraneous multiple dice rolls are maybe not great, but so long as we pay attention and don't forget to make those rolls it shouldn't take too long. I'm stoked.
~ Shrap
Rolling 1's for five and a half decades.
AoS * Konflikt '47 * Conquest Last Argument of Kings * Trench Crusade * Horus Heresy * The Old World * Armoured Clash
Article detailing activation mechanics and the rift dice.
I'm intrigued but concerned.
The weirder the better, but this also seems like it might seriously handicap non-rift-tech units. If it pushes us towards fielding tables of just rift units will it really be "Weird" if they aren't standing next to some regular units?
What about the player who wants to field a force that's only received a little rift tech? Will they be at a serious disadvantage?
Also, I'm just not paying 29 bucks for a set of dice or going to tell a new player he needs an army and nearly 60 bucks of dice. That kind of money grab is part of what caused me to leave GW. If the group gets into this I'm buying bulk blank dice in a couple colors from Ali.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/08/09 02:38:33
Maybe the dice with come with the model sets? How are order dice normally packaged?
But yeah, there should be a juxtaposition between conventional units and the more exotic ones. Otherwise it's just WW2 flavored wannabe 40k and that's no fun. There has to be something grounded to give the fantastical choices meaning. Hence why AoS never really appealed to me.
Even Wolfenstein had basic dudes with guns; not everyone was a ubersoldat, undead, venom trooper or loper.
Maybe there'd be limits on what you can field. Like, you can only field x number of rift units per x points or something.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2025/08/09 08:05:42
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Standard infantry are going to be less points than their rift tech counterparts, and seem necessary as they were in version 1 to hold objectives. We'll see about the point difference between them and rift tech, I hope they keep them fully viable.
Article detailing activation mechanics and the rift dice.
I'm intrigued but concerned.
The weirder the better, but this also seems like it might seriously handicap non-rift-tech units. If it pushes us towards fielding tables of just rift units will it really be "Weird" if they aren't standing next to some regular units?
What about the player who wants to field a force that's only received a little rift tech? Will they be at a serious disadvantage?
Also, I'm just not paying 29 bucks for a set of dice or going to tell a new player he needs an army and nearly 60 bucks of dice. That kind of money grab is part of what caused me to leave GW. If the group gets into this I'm buying bulk blank dice in a couple colors from Ali.
I don't see any players needing more than one box of Rift dice.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2025/08/09 15:42:13
~ Shrap
Rolling 1's for five and a half decades.
AoS * Konflikt '47 * Conquest Last Argument of Kings * Trench Crusade * Horus Heresy * The Old World * Armoured Clash
FlipSide Gaming on ebay is selling pre orders at a slight discount, for those in the US.
Having to buy the special dice is a downside but hey at least you don't have to buy cards or card decks for gameplay. As far as i'm aware it's a game that is free from any card based mechanics.
Thargrim wrote: FlipSide Gaming on ebay is selling pre orders at a slight discount, for those in the US.
Having to buy the special dice is a downside but hey at least you don't have to buy cards or card decks for gameplay. As far as i'm aware it's a game that is free from any card based mechanics.
True, and unlike the GW "reference cards" you can probably use the dice for a lot longer without worrying about them being rendered obsolete next edition.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
lord_blackfang wrote: I would suggest it's maybe not about not wanting to sell the game to nazis but about wanting to sell the game to Germans and that's easier to do if you tell them their grandpa wasn't really an evil piece of trash, he was just manipulated by forces beyond his understanding.
If you want to sell entertainment stuff in Germany you also need to consider that the legal situation around swastikas and such is complicated. It's not totally forbidden to have the symbol on things, but it can land you in legal trouble. The further you stray from purely historical stuff, the more likely it is that you get into trouble - having e.g. a sourcebook on WW2 that accurately depicts insignia of real units and such is probably okay, purely fictional nazi-werewolves or whatever that are prominently bedecked with swastikas, SS runes and whatnot are likely to cause offence. In digital media, "German cuts" were swastikas are replaced by some similar, but legal symbol have been made because it's easy (various Wolfensteins, for example) because e.g. games that did not were either banned outright or put on the index (meaning they could be only sold to people older than 18, and it was not allowed to advertise them, which pretty much killed the economic viability of these games).
. If the group gets into this I'm buying bulk blank dice in a couple colors from Ali.
I don't see any players needing more than one box of Rift dice.
I don't either, but you've also got to buy a set of order dice, also from Warlord so they'll all be the same size in the dice bag.
** shrugs **. A part of the game, I guess I've played so long I don't fret about such things. I love the printed orders on each die facing, so easy to teach to new players and track status on the table.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/08/10 04:00:37
~ Shrap
Rolling 1's for five and a half decades.
AoS * Konflikt '47 * Conquest Last Argument of Kings * Trench Crusade * Horus Heresy * The Old World * Armoured Clash
~4100
~1660
