Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, at least there’s something brewing in these earlier days. That has to be a positive?

Absolutely. It's a pretty diverse group of people from all over the globe, too. Some big US people there, good UK representation and a decent number of people from the rest of the world. If they can figure out how to work together effectively but avoid "death by committee" it's looking good.

Glad to hear it. Despite a not entirely undeserved rep for being pro-GW, I don’t want other gaming communities to lose what they have.

I hope they get around to undoing all the terrible changes AMG made. Can we get back to 200 points, please?

 Arschbombe wrote:
I hope they get around to undoing all the terrible changes AMG made. Can we get back to 200 points, please?

This is going to be the biggest challenge. AMG messed things up so badly, even them abandoning the game has caused problems because there's a splintered community. Nothing's been confirmed yet, but early indications seem to suggest something closer to 2.5 than 2.0. Personally, I think the changes to obstacles, ion, tractoring and ROAD were very good. The bumping rules were mixed, and designed to solve a problem I rarely actually saw in practice. The points changes were demonstrably stupid and I really, really hope we don't keep the 20-point set-up we have now. I'd be happy as a first pass to revert to 200 points and modify the scenario rules to account for it.

 Arschbombe wrote:
I hope they get around to undoing all the terrible changes AMG made. Can we get back to 200 points, please?

Just multiply everything in 2.5 edition by 10 Tweak it afterwards.
Or, the old points are still on FFG's site.

There has heen an active community on discord doing 2.0 and rebalancing everything released since 2.5 came out, they do a fairly good job of it too.

Slipspace wrote:

 Arschbombe wrote:
I hope they get around to undoing all the terrible changes AMG made. Can we get back to 200 points, please?

This is going to be the biggest challenge. AMG messed things up so badly, even them abandoning the game has caused problems because there's a splintered community. Nothing's been confirmed yet, but early indications seem to suggest something closer to 2.5 than 2.0. Personally, I think the changes to obstacles, ion, tractoring and ROAD were very good. The bumping rules were mixed, and designed to solve a problem I rarely actually saw in practice. The points changes were demonstrably stupid and I really, really hope we don't keep the 20-point set-up we have now. I'd be happy as a first pass to revert to 200 points and modify the scenario rules to account for it.

I am real interested to see how the community addresses the bungling AMG did with the game, because man.... those 2.5 changes were pretty darn rough.

Billicus wrote:
From what I've seen in Armada circles the community leaders are all saying they won't back any community balancing/homebrew efforts until at least 2025, when the final (US only) Worlds competition is over. I don't love it, it's wasting all the momentum for the sake of one tourney scene. There's stuff in need of balancing and work now that won't happen til then (and likely won't at all, as interest dies off).

Yeah, you'd think sane thing to do would be to announce this one tournament will keep current rules and in meantime write/release beta version of community changes so it's playtested and ready for final pass ASAP

 kodos wrote:
in addition, it works for GW, no one complains about different models size from Necromunda or Underworlds and that you can hardly use the models from the main games to play the skirmish games

You wot?

I can play Warcry and Kill Team with main game models just fine, OK, not all models but most of them have rules and funnily enough GW keeps all of their game ranges at the exact same scale (ancient 54 mm Inq experiment excluded) instead of doing ultra-blatant cash grab of 3 scales in 3 game systems depicting the exact same characters/units. Yes, there are dumb memes about this or that GW range being 1-2 mm taller but all these 'differences' are well within natural human height variance and it looks fine on table sooo...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m possibly being overly charitable to AMG, but keep in mind they’re a pretty small team, and didn’t actively bid, so far as I can tell, for X-Wing and Armada.

Good couple of years ago they confirmed No New Ships for…Armada, I think?

I suspect it’s less negligence on AMG’s behalf, and more a question of resources. After all, if you’ve say a dozen sculptors and designers producing everything AMG produces, and then tell them “here’s more work, for two existing games, hop to it”, that’s not entirely on AMG, at least not in the beginning. There is of course the question of “could you not have hired more people?”.

Not gonna bothering commenting on what I thought of the two games as frankly that doesn’t matter. Because I still have empathy and sympathy with those invested in the games who now have their bums out the window.

The sculptors are for the most part freelancers, you can always get more of those, they are budgeted separately from typical personnel costs.

Rules designers are a different matter, but it helps when you don't fire them all (for the record, AMG offered the existing FFG staff the opportunity to interview for their jobs, those that did so grumbled that the process was somewhat degrading and AMG only accepted one of them, who was fired within 6-12 months).

 LunarSol wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Most likely....
Expense of renewing IP for those 2 games vs how much profit they bring in.
Decision made.

Correct. And the answer to "why now" is simply "because the contract wasn't up for renewal when FFG got reorg'd".

Unlikely, the license isn't for a specific game, it's for a category of products. As they are still producing legion and shatterpoint, they most likely still have the license.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Correct. And the answer to "why now" is simply "because the contract wasn't up for renewal when FFG got reorg'd".

Unlikely, the license isn't for a specific game, it's for a category of products. As they are still producing legion and shatterpoint, they most likely still have the license.

Realized this almost immediately and corrected myself after

chaos0xomega wrote:

Rules designers are a different matter, but it helps when you don't fire them all (for the record, AMG offered the existing FFG staff the opportunity to interview for their jobs, those that did so grumbled that the process was somewhat degrading and AMG only accepted one of them, who was fired within 6-12 months).

I'm fairly sure this was all part of Asmodee's plan. Why bother firing people when you can give them the "option" to relocate to another state working under a studio that has no experience with your game?

Maybe, but having interacted with Will Schick on numerous occasions, I'm more inclined to thi k that he's an egotistical snob and either overestimated his ability and/or underestimated the capability of his peers at FFG.

 LunarSol wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Correct. And the answer to "why now" is simply "because the contract wasn't up for renewal when FFG got reorg'd".

Unlikely, the license isn't for a specific game, it's for a category of products. As they are still producing legion and shatterpoint, they most likely still have the license.

Realized this almost immediately and corrected myself after

It makes it interesting when that contract comes up again. Armada & Xwing gone, Shatterpoint sales poor, Legion sales ok ish. Will it be worth the cost of renewing?

People keep saying "Shatterpoint sales poor", but the stuff is constantly out of stock on the web retailers I've looked at?

May be country related - last couple of times I’ve been in element games there’s a wall of the stuff that doesn’t look to have changed much.

Yeah, its probably the most popular non-GW game locally.

Like everything in our hobby, outside the GW bubble you can't gauge sales at a glance.

If I drive an hour East, Shatterpoint is 100% dead... An hour West and it has a playerbase almost equal to 40k...

... both are terrible barometers for sales. :-p

MaxT wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Correct. And the answer to "why now" is simply "because the contract wasn't up for renewal when FFG got reorg'd".

Unlikely, the license isn't for a specific game, it's for a category of products. As they are still producing legion and shatterpoint, they most likely still have the license.

Realized this almost immediately and corrected myself after

It makes it interesting when that contract comes up again. Armada & Xwing gone, Shatterpoint sales poor, Legion sales ok ish. Will it be worth the cost of renewing?

It'll be interesting if Disney even gives them the option. Having seen Disney's licensing requirements in the past, Asmodees financial situation (the debt, specifically) might make it a nonstarter for the mouse, provided that they hold existing license holders to the same standards as new ones.

Just in general? Please be wary of making claims about sales volumes for any game.

To the best of my knowledge, GW are the only player that has to publish its 6 and 12 month results. And even then, they don’t break it down by game system, let alone army.

I think Asmodée is similar from memory, but under French jurisdiction rather than UK, as I’m somewhat sure that’s where Asmodée is incorporated.

But just looking at GW? We’ve seen many, many, many, many 4chan type claims they’re just about to go under in recent years, despite the publically posted, and independently verified, 6 and 12 month results.

Anecdotally, Shatterpoint hasn't sold locally at all, even at clearance. One shop has it, you just have to ask for it as the floor space was better served for lines that move.

Players were already committed to Rebel Assault and Legion, so a third version of Malibu Stacy wasn't a hot ticket.

 Easy E wrote:
If I was really cynical person, I should release a Castle in the Sky PDF booklet that stats up Armada ships for use in Castles in the Sky rules system.

Hmmm.... Sorry, I have to go; right now!

Go for it!! I have always been planning on someday using my Armada ships and squadrons with the One Page Rules Warfleets game. Especially in the previous edition, which had profiles that matched right up with Armada ships for the Alliance and Empire fleets.

We can't say for sure, but one can apply a little common sense to the evidence we do have. Doesn't seem to be a big presence on Youtube. 40K may be the only thing that really moves battle reports, but there's just not much of it being mentioned, just the odd comment of someone being excited about a new release, or wondering what a rumored box set will be. When Legion was hot new releases for would sell out that weekend on Miniature Market, Shatterpoint doesn't seem to. Forums don't seem to buzz with a tremendous amount of energy about the game. STL makers are not really jumping on it like there's a gold mine waiting for them if they do. Just comes across as tepid, and it would be surprising if a tepid exterior hid a sales behemoth underneath.

 frankelee wrote:
We can't say for sure, but one can apply a little common sense to the evidence we do have. Doesn't seem to be a big presence on Youtube. 40K may be the only thing that really moves battle reports, but there's just not much of it being mentioned, just the odd comment of someone being excited about a new release, or wondering what a rumored box set will be. When Legion was hot new releases for would sell out that weekend on Miniature Market, Shatterpoint doesn't seem to. Forums don't seem to buzz with a tremendous amount of energy about the game. STL makers are not really jumping on it like there's a gold mine waiting for them if they do. Just comes across as tepid, and it would be surprising if a tepid exterior hid a sales behemoth underneath.

Miniwargaming 467k Subscribers.
Marvel crisis protocol battle report 4 days ago, 1878 views.
Ravaged star play test battle report 7 days ago, 3318 views.
Warhammer the old world battle report 9 days ago, 8907 views.
Age of sigmar battle report 2 weeks ago, 7374 views.

Aegisbrand studios 5k subscribers.
Star Wars shatterpoint battle report 5 days ago, 1201 views.
Marvel crisis protocol battle report, 6 days ago. 1323 views.
Star Wars shaterpoint battle report, 12 days ago. 964 views.

Honestly from a little look, it seems to be drawing views. From community standpoint I think that’s fairly ok.
The reddit pages seem to also be getting regular traffic.
I also didn’t bother looking at 40K since we know that wins. And 10 mins of work.

The only xwing battle reports I could find this month didn’t even break 100 veiws together, this news was all that come up that seems to be drawing attention.

I'm late to the party as I just noticed the thread but wow... I'd be lying if I said it wasn't expected given the (seeming lack of) support since the switch over though. I bought at least two of everything other than the bigger ships (one each of those) for the first couple of years as I had gone gaga over playing starfighter games at gencon in the 1990s with repurposed Micro-Machines and this was my chance to get my own even better minis but the switchover to very obscure (even for me by my standards!) EU ships eventually led me to just occasionally buying a ship I still liked. My last purchase/gift was a U-wing from Rogue One and 2nd edition with its mandatory buy in for a game I was no longer playing weekly was the final nail.

Ironically, this news might get me to pick up the last few ships I liked from the past 5+ years before they become even harder to get.

A soon as the announcement was made, my FLGS was mostly wiped out of Armada (just a couple of wave 1-3 ships left) and about half of X-Wing is gone.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
A soon as the announcement was made, my FLGS was mostly wiped out of Armada (just a couple of wave 1-3 ships left) and about half of X-Wing is gone.

I believe it. I can't be the only one thinking the same thing...

 warboss wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
A soon as the announcement was made, my FLGS was mostly wiped out of Armada (just a couple of wave 1-3 ships left) and about half of X-Wing is gone.

I believe it. I can't be the only one thinking the same thing...

Yeah, looked for the rebel ships I'm still missing and they went out of stock in most places. Guess I'll never see the rebel fighters 1 as they've been unavailable everywhere even before the announcement.

It is mildly amusing that the week before I was going to finally post up my X-Wing stuff for sale it gets announced the game is being discontinued.

It is the absolute Wild West in the Star Wars minis games buy/trade/sell groups right now, and a huge pain to try and sell what have.

 frankelee wrote:
We can't say for sure, but one can apply a little common sense to the evidence we do have. Doesn't seem to be a big presence on Youtube. 40K may be the only thing that really moves battle reports, but there's just not much of it being mentioned, just the odd comment of someone being excited about a new release, or wondering what a rumored box set will be. When Legion was hot new releases for would sell out that weekend on Miniature Market, Shatterpoint doesn't seem to. Forums don't seem to buzz with a tremendous amount of energy about the game. STL makers are not really jumping on it like there's a gold mine waiting for them if they do. Just comes across as tepid, and it would be surprising if a tepid exterior hid a sales behemoth underneath.

ICV2 has shatterpoint at #4 in the market currently, behind 40k/DND/Battletech and just ahead of Marvel.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/56556/top-miniatures-lines-fall-2023

I can't imagine I'll ever get the Onager that I had been pondering buying. At least I console myself that I have a relatively large collection of Rebels and Imps (pretty much 1 of everything and multiple of a couple of the small ships), and there's always Etsy for some really nice 3D printed ships (like Dreadnoughts/Rebel Assault Frigates).

I'm hoping that as my sone gets a bit older(he's currently 9) and now that he's into Star Wars, I can get him to play in the near future. We just started Rebels, and maybe as we get nearer to the end of the series maybe I'll start him with some Rebels-themed Task Force Battles.