Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
if an entire playgroup is so attached to the compendium teams as to quit over their removal, then wouldn't they simply collectively agree to keep playing the edition that still has those teams?

Although you should be right, GW has trained us well, and outside well stablished playgroups people will want to move to the latest shinny splitting groups.

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
if an entire playgroup is so attached to the compendium teams as to quit over their removal, then wouldn't they simply collectively agree to keep playing the edition that still has those teams?

Although you should be right, GW has trained us well, and outside well stablished playgroups people will want to move to the latest shinny splitting groups.

M.

The main reason is that they release some new models/teams/units with a new rule set, so if you want to use the new shiny, you need the new rules as people hate/can't make up rules for new models for older rulesets.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
if an entire playgroup is so attached to the compendium teams as to quit over their removal, then wouldn't they simply collectively agree to keep playing the edition that still has those teams?

Like anywhere its a mix. The keen ones get all the releases, a few get a fair bit, and then a bunch picked up what they needed to play with their existing models (normally the box set with the rules in and some scenery - though most clubs in area provide scenery so not as important to buy it). And they don't quit, they just don't play anymore. There isn't an announcement from them, there is just when you ask who wants a game of x less responses, and then you see them playing other games. Highly non confrontational lot, who just want to enjoy playing games, not making a fuss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should add the reaction to other GW games is similar. 9th saw a drop in 40k players in the area for a bunch of problems, mostly covid disruptions, 10th converted the hard core tourney guys, everyone else just drifted away. Now there arguably it is not as problematic - the tournie players could get a bit miffed at playing games verse the casual crowd because their tuned forces would win in short order and no one would enjoy it, but they are the ones buying all the plastic with the casual bunch just getting the odd models they like (and 3d printing a fair bit). So GW was still seeing the cash, but killteam wasn't as stark and easy balancing measures like a few extra EP for a compendium team was often used. With fewer players and less chance of games, and no tounry scene like 40k, I can't see it doing well round here.
For 40k we currently have more people using their BFG fleets than 40k now, with most of those players being former 40k regulars. They didn't say they were quitting, they just asked who fancies a game of X instead of 40k.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

** This does mean that kill teams from the Kill Team Compendium book will not have updated rules.

compendium teams aren't carrying over? wonder what'll happen for nids, talons, and anything else that doesn't have a KT equivalent

A terribly lazy move. For the price of an intern spending a week figuring out word, they have lost half the players in my area. No one was going to tournies, but they were playing odd games, buying the odd bit to use their death guard, custodes, 'stealers, grey knights, Deathwatch (actual kill teams) and Orks/grotz. And of course everyone else will be very grateful for the drop in opponents.

so do you want well-written rules, or do you want rules that are written in half a week by someone still learning game design? people drag GW whenever they release rules that are anything less than perfect, but now that they're trying to tighten their focus for writing rules, they're getting gak for it. how can they win here?

I would rather have incredibly half assed rules that let people do more modelling options personally.

 The Phazer wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

** This does mean that kill teams from the Kill Team Compendium book will not have updated rules.

compendium teams aren't carrying over? wonder what'll happen for nids, talons, and anything else that doesn't have a KT equivalent

A terribly lazy move. For the price of an intern spending a week figuring out word, they have lost half the players in my area. No one was going to tournies, but they were playing odd games, buying the odd bit to use their death guard, custodes, 'stealers, grey knights, Deathwatch (actual kill teams) and Orks/grotz. And of course everyone else will be very grateful for the drop in opponents.

so do you want well-written rules, or do you want rules that are written in half a week by someone still learning game design? people drag GW whenever they release rules that are anything less than perfect, but now that they're trying to tighten their focus for writing rules, they're getting gak for it. how can they win here?

I would rather have incredibly half assed rules that let people do more modelling options personally.

You know that well written rules and options are not mutually exclusive, right?

Modelling options being restricted, especially in GW’s flagship games, is completely orthogonal to the quality of the rules writing.

Anyway, enough of that; new article drop: Aquilons play style preview.

Gotta wonder how that deployment will work out in enclosed hulk type environments…

Huh, I never noticed the All Quiet On The Western Front terrain before:

Which element, Kid?

Open the spoiler and look at the foot of the dual pistols guy. There's a a tangle of barbed wire with aquillas, reliquaries, and a severed forearm with hand.

I believe that barbed wire is one of the new pieces of equipment you can get?

KidCthulhu wrote:Open the spoiler and look at the foot of the dual pistols guy. There's a a tangle of barbed wire with aquillas, reliquaries, and a severed forearm with hand.

Pariah Press wrote:I believe that barbed wire is one of the new pieces of equipment you can get?

Yup. You can see them in more detail on the 4th image in the first post in this thread (page 1).

Wow, they really did go all All Quiet On The Western Front with that piece of terrain. Both arms are on it, like the iconic scene.

I'm looking forward to the new edition, and the rules/formatting changes that have been mentioned all seem sensible, but what is this nonsense? That's one of the most insanely worded abilities I've ever read. Maybe the user-friendly writing they've promised only applies to the core rules.

 cerebaton wrote:
I'm looking forward to the new edition, and the rules/formatting changes that have been mentioned all seem sensible, but what is this nonsense? That's one of the most insanely worded abilities I've ever read. Maybe the user-friendly writing they've promised only applies to the core rules.

Would have been easier to just say 'your operatives have the following ability this turn, until half your operatives have activated'.

As dense and complex as the wording is, it pre-answers a number of possible questions by being painfully precise:

Which Operatives do I count when determining the number of operatives?

Round up or down?

Does that number change if I lose operatives during the turn?

Can I choose which operatives get the bonus?

Still, it is a bit dense and requires rereading to make sure you have it correct.

These rules are in violation of Fleischer’s* Game Design Maxim #1: “Don’t make your players do algebra.”

* That’s me; I’m Fleischer

Here's hoping that sees some editing...

 schoon wrote:
Here's hoping that sees some editing...

It won't. You have to remember that since Robin Cruddace (who according to a White Dwarf interview studied math) became head of the 40k studio, rules text has been written by robots for robots. It's not an accident this is written to be mechanically precise but linguistically cumbersome. GW's writers's priorities are clearly established at this point.

this reads perfectly fine. you don't even need to reread it to understand. the first half of operatives you activate get the effect. what's the issue here? not like the game didn't require a basic understanding of numbers before this

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
this reads perfectly fine. you don't even need to reread it to understand. the first half of operatives you activate get the effect. what's the issue here? not like the game didn't require a basic understanding of numbers before this

Eh, for whatever reason a lot of people struggle with algebra particularly, even folk who are otherwise competent at other forms of maths. I think some people struggle with the abstraction required for algebra and that's fine. Different people have different weak spots

I read it with a British accent and immediately understood what was going on.

Yeah I can understand the ability, I just think it's bizarrely phrased, even for tournament-proofed rules writing.

"... if they are the first friendly operatives activated this turning point equal to x." barely makes sense gramatically. It seems like this might have orignally read "... if they are the first x friendly operatives activated this turning point." but for whatever reason they decided it needed to be made even less open to interpretation.

At least they added a clear example at the end, but I'd prefer if these kind of things went the other way round - a plain language explanation of the rule first, then rules-speak at the end to clarify edge cases.

So long as you have activated fewer than x operatives this turning point - where x is equal to half the number of operatives you had at the start of the turning point, rounded up - your operatives' weapons have the Balanced rule during their activations.

Did anyone pick up anything from the showcase game demo?

There are videos on YT about that already. Quite a few cool changes. Ones I like in particular:

2CP for the loser of the initiative roll. Simple, elegant. I can see myself in a situation where I choose 2CP after winning the roll, having positioned myself well in the TP before.

More choice for actions instead of overwatch. Not just a needed boost for elites but in general replacing automated processes with player decisions and choices is always a good thing in my game design book.

Cyel wrote:
There are videos on YT about that already. Quite a few cool changes. Ones I like in particular:

2CP for the loser of the initiative roll. Simple, elegant. I can see myself in a situation where I choose 2CP after winning the roll, having positioned myself well in the TP before.

More choice for actions instead of overwatch. Not just a needed boost for elites but in general replacing automated processes with player decisions and choices is always a good thing in my game design book.

URL pls?!

Hearthkyn Salvagers and Phobos Team are showing as "sold out online" (rather than "temporarily out of stock"), is that likely to just be because they'll be repackaged for the new edition?

That's just a UK supply issue. Both are still available on the US Site not to mention those are the only 2 Kill Teams not available in the UK.

 alextroy wrote:
That's just a UK supply issue. Both are still available on the US Site not to mention those are the only 2 Kill Teams not available in the UK.

I thought "Sold Out Online" isn't just a temporary stock thing though, it's what's used when stock has sold out and there won't be any more coming.

Both still being available on the US site just means they haven't sold out of those specific ones yet, but the Breachers team says "sold out online" there.