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Regarding the Wound dial bases. Seemingly a good idea, but as tauist has noted, you can screw up the mini's position by using it. Now we all have plenty of d6s, so that's the simpler and cheaper route ... However, there are knitting counters. They are little cylinders with two dials going from 0 - 9. I've not bothered to buy any before, but I'm thinking they could be better than dice, which periodically get knocked over, or worse, picked up and rolled by mistake. Since I also play Kings of War, and despite being rank and file, it uses wounds as the unit is removed as a whole, so they'd be useful there as well (and Frostgrave, Stargrave et al).

I use red d8s and d12s and they are pretty stable (unlike d10s) and there's no risk of picking them up to roll them.

I personally use 2 micro D6s per operative for wound tracking. Those micro D6s are awful to throw anyway, and wont get mixed up with regular die. My LGS sells solid blue and red micro D6s, so those are what I use (blue and red match the existing KT21 token colours)

 Matrindur wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Blooded were always more expensive, they get the Blackstone Commissar and Ogryn on top of a full squad sprue.

Na at least in € Blooded were 51,50€ before, same as the Veteran Guardsmen, Novitiates, Corsairs, Farstalkers, Kasrkin, Hearthkyn, Elucidian Starstriders, Fellgor Ravagers, Navy Breachers and Exaction Squad.
Scouts, Necrons, Gellerpox, Phobos Squad, Legionaries, and Kommandos were 55€.
Then there are the Pathfinders at 47.50€ and the Hand of the Archon and Inquisitorial Agents at 44€ and the Blades of Khaine at 62,50€

Now Corsairs went up to 55€, Hernkyn Jaegers and Brood Brothers got added to 55€, Mandrakes to 62,50€, Kommandos stayed at 55€, Nemesis Claw with a new price point of 60€ together with Blooded which got raised up there and Scouts went up to 62,50€

So for the already existing squads Corsairs got +3,50€, Kommandos stayed the same, Blooded +8,50€ and Scouts +7,50€

So as said above the +3,50€ for Corsairs makes sense with the tokens and the same increase would be fine for the others but why did Scouts and Blooded get a higher increase instead? (Probably simply because people will still buy them at that price point but still)

The Blooded are essentially a veteran guardsman kill team with a free ogryn and commissar thrown in before, so the weirdness was that they didn't cost more the first go-around.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

Spoiler:

 Matrindur wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Blooded were always more expensive, they get the Blackstone Commissar and Ogryn on top of a full squad sprue.

Na at least in € Blooded were 51,50€ before, same as the Veteran Guardsmen, Novitiates, Corsairs, Farstalkers, Kasrkin, Hearthkyn, Elucidian Starstriders, Fellgor Ravagers, Navy Breachers and Exaction Squad.
Scouts, Necrons, Gellerpox, Phobos Squad, Legionaries, and Kommandos were 55€.
Then there are the Pathfinders at 47.50€ and the Hand of the Archon and Inquisitorial Agents at 44€ and the Blades of Khaine at 62,50€

Now Corsairs went up to 55€, Hernkyn Jaegers and Brood Brothers got added to 55€, Mandrakes to 62,50€, Kommandos stayed at 55€, Nemesis Claw with a new price point of 60€ together with Blooded which got raised up there and Scouts went up to 62,50€

So for the already existing squads Corsairs got +3,50€, Kommandos stayed the same, Blooded +8,50€ and Scouts +7,50€

So as said above the +3,50€ for Corsairs makes sense with the tokens and the same increase would be fine for the others but why did Scouts and Blooded get a higher increase instead? (Probably simply because people will still buy them at that price point but still)

The Blooded are essentially a veteran guardsman kill team with a free ogryn and commissar thrown in before, so the weirdness was that they didn't cost more the first go-around.

I'm a bit surprised they didn't just remove them from the box, much like the Broodbrothers not coming with the Broodcoven. But I suppose the Broodcoven exist as a separate box, and IIRC there isn't currently any other way to get the Ogryn or Comissar.

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

Spoiler:

 Matrindur wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Blooded were always more expensive, they get the Blackstone Commissar and Ogryn on top of a full squad sprue.

Na at least in € Blooded were 51,50€ before, same as the Veteran Guardsmen, Novitiates, Corsairs, Farstalkers, Kasrkin, Hearthkyn, Elucidian Starstriders, Fellgor Ravagers, Navy Breachers and Exaction Squad.
Scouts, Necrons, Gellerpox, Phobos Squad, Legionaries, and Kommandos were 55€.
Then there are the Pathfinders at 47.50€ and the Hand of the Archon and Inquisitorial Agents at 44€ and the Blades of Khaine at 62,50€

Now Corsairs went up to 55€, Hernkyn Jaegers and Brood Brothers got added to 55€, Mandrakes to 62,50€, Kommandos stayed at 55€, Nemesis Claw with a new price point of 60€ together with Blooded which got raised up there and Scouts went up to 62,50€

So for the already existing squads Corsairs got +3,50€, Kommandos stayed the same, Blooded +8,50€ and Scouts +7,50€

So as said above the +3,50€ for Corsairs makes sense with the tokens and the same increase would be fine for the others but why did Scouts and Blooded get a higher increase instead? (Probably simply because people will still buy them at that price point but still)

The Blooded are essentially a veteran guardsman kill team with a free ogryn and commissar thrown in before, so the weirdness was that they didn't cost more the first go-around.

I'm a bit surprised they didn't just remove them from the box, much like the Broodbrothers not coming with the Broodcoven. But I suppose the Broodcoven exist as a separate box, and IIRC there isn't currently any other way to get the Ogryn or Comissar.

yeah, it's a difference of how it's made. Broodcoven is more similar to the Necrons team, but Blooded was made to go together (and even in bighammer, will often be played alongside each other)

I thought the ogryn and commissar came in a BSF box though, so separate sprues? But I suppose if there's currently no route to purchase them separately that's why they're included, whereas broodcoven are a GSC kit at the moment.

That's correct, Longstrider, they were originally an expansion pack for Blackstone Fortress.

The latest WH+ Batrep is apparently free to watch. Almost watched it now.




Mixed feelings regarding the new edition tbh. Cover feels super strong now. Also, I feel like the presenters arent super proficient KT21 players? Far too little conceal use during the game IMHO.

Early days, but perhaps getting a sense Vespid's might be OP

 Dysartes wrote:
That's correct, Longstrider, they were originally an expansion pack for Blackstone Fortress.

Yeah, so that's what seems strange to me about Blooded vs. Brood Brothers - the former gets its Big Guys on a separate sprue in the box and the latter doesn't, but I suppose it is just down to availability of the latter's Big Guys in the 40k GSC range.

Sorry, wrong thread!

What are the Kill Team Mission Cards advertised on the cover of White Dwarf 504? Tried to find some info online, but failed (one list of contents doesn't even list any KT cards inside the latest issue)

Longstrider wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
That's correct, Longstrider, they were originally an expansion pack for Blackstone Fortress.

Yeah, so that's what seems strange to me about Blooded vs. Brood Brothers - the former gets its Big Guys on a separate sprue in the box and the latter doesn't, but I suppose it is just down to availability of the latter's Big Guys in the 40k GSC range.

It's rather unfortunate that the GSC characters share a single sprue (from the Deathwatch game), so a box with it would be either much more expensive then the other Kill Teams or a steal (no pun intended).

The other thing is that KT boxes are each containing a ready-to-play team where you can use all the models. That's true for the Blooded (indeed you must use them as the only other option are four additional troopers) but not for the Brood Brothers: you can ever field only the Patriarch, the Magus or the Primus - or none of them, as you can take tactical assets instead of additional models.

So this is what the token look like that are now included with the teams:
Slightly different from team to team depending on their abilities but overall pretty similar

Cyel wrote:
What are the Kill Team Mission Cards advertised on the cover of White Dwarf 504? Tried to find some info online, but failed (one list of contents doesn't even list any KT cards inside the latest issue)

It's a deck of 11 cards; there are three deployment maps- three objectives on the centerline a) horizontally b) vertically and c) diagonally.

You flip one card per turning point and either player can score it; next turning point, whether anyone scored or not, it's discarded and another is flipped. Two of the 11 cards are deck manipulators, and the other nine are scoreable- some defining interactions with the objectives, others not. You can also pay 2 CP to flip a different card- either player can spend the full cost, or each player can pay one CP.

There's a bit more to it, but hat's the basics. It looks like it would be okay, and it may be system agnostic enough to work with both editions. The kill team cards were gravy for me in this issue- that Chalnath/ Kroot series of articles made me feel like I was back in the glory days of 9th. To have this little KT Mission Generator/ Mini-Game on top of that is pretty cool. My pick for issue of the year so far.

Ok, so it's an alternative mission generator? Sounds fine.

In the meantime I learned that in the new edition you will be able to move through friendly models' bases. Similarly to removing Traverse, I don't like this direction of changes.

For me wargames are about positioning. So good positioning should be rewarded and bad - punished. The more opportunities the game gives you for getting your positioning wrong, the more interesting it is, as you get more satisfaction when you actually get it right.

Moving through your friendly bases is just an easy way out for those who do not plan their positioning a turn ahead and suffer a suboptimal order of activations later.

For those missing the sprue images for Hivestorm. Check out my unboxing, I have all the assembly options, high-res sprue images of all models, and dimensions for the terrain: https://taleofpainters.com/2024/09/review-kill-team-hivestorm-pt-1-the-models/

 Dryaktylus wrote:

Spoiler:

Longstrider wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
That's correct, Longstrider, they were originally an expansion pack for Blackstone Fortress.

Yeah, so that's what seems strange to me about Blooded vs. Brood Brothers - the former gets its Big Guys on a separate sprue in the box and the latter doesn't, but I suppose it is just down to availability of the latter's Big Guys in the 40k GSC range.

It's rather unfortunate that the GSC characters share a single sprue (from the Deathwatch game), so a box with it would be either much more expensive then the other Kill Teams or a steal (no pun intended).

The other thing is that KT boxes are each containing a ready-to-play team where you can use all the models. That's true for the Blooded (indeed you must use them as the only other option are four additional troopers) but not for the Brood Brothers: you can ever field only the Patriarch, the Magus or the Primus - or none of them, as you can take tactical assets instead of additional models.

It would be a good argument, but it's a new edition of killteam, therefore the rules are up for adjustment. I don't get why if Guardsmen can make do with a killteam of 10, there is an innate need for the Blooded to need 12. But since GW would likely just charge as much fir 10 as 12 I guess I shouldn't complain.

Have the box teams gone up in price? Looking at a few of them it seems they might have but i'm not sure.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Have the box teams gone up in price? Looking at a few of them it seems they might have but i'm not sure.

Yes. All the repacks to include the new token sheets have come with a price increase.

I think we suspected due to the lack of mentioning it as one of the various ways to play, but it would appear that the Spec Ops campaigns have left the core rules from the various reviews out there.

I suspect we'll see them return in some form in some more 'narrative' focused Co-op supplements later.

 Tastyfish wrote:
I think we suspected due to the lack of mentioning it as one of the various ways to play, but it would appear that the Spec Ops campaigns have left the core rules from the various reviews out there.

I suspect we'll see them return in some form in some more 'narrative' focused Co-op supplements later.

We'll see. Without a built-in mode for narrative campaign play, the game is dead to me, so either GW smartens up or they go without my money. They were already treading on thin ice with 40k after decimating subfactions and psychic powers. When I read that spec ops was gone, it was almost enough to make me rage quit GW as whole. Last time that lasted two editions.

 PenitentJake wrote:

We'll see. Without a built-in mode for narrative campaign play, the game is dead to me...

While I agree with this sentiment - as I love narrative play - isn't adjusting things to a narrative framework just an application of a little creativity?

Current Spec Ops seem to be almost perfectly compatible with new rules. Maybe in 1% of situations a tiny tweak will ne needed, but most of the time it should be as if the edition never changed.

 schoon wrote:

 PenitentJake wrote:

We'll see. Without a built-in mode for narrative campaign play, the game is dead to me...

While I agree with this sentiment - as I love narrative play - isn't adjusting things to a narrative framework just an application of a little creativity?

I think the unusual thing about Kill Team 2021 is that it's turned out to be quite well balanced and solid as a ruleset, so works better than most GW games for competitive play. For that reason, they seem to have concentrated on the competitive 1v1 side of things for the new edition (and, having read through the full leak, I think all the changes they've made in that direction are good ones). Really this isn't Kill Team 3 (or whatever number we'd be up to) so much as Kill Team 2.1 - just codifying some of the balance dataslate stuff, clarifying edge cases that come up in competitive play and making some sensible tweaks.

I also am only likely to play Kill Team narratively though, so I agree that it's a pity Spec Ops appears to be gone, but like schoon says, that's by far the easiest bit to just make up yourself and will be 90% backwards compatible with the previous edition anyway.

I haven't preordered the core book as the reviews suggest it's a bit too light in clarity and details. For only 112 pages £37.50 is a steep asking price, even with discount. Not a deal breaker yet if its the only purchase I need to make to plop some models on the table, and at least its not a softback asking for a hardback price, but I'd feel better when they have more stuff announced and the team rules go up on WarCom.

Now would be a good time for GW to introduce a new 40K Quest game, as Kill Team 2018 enjoyed cross-over rules with Blackstone Fortress.

Cyel wrote:
Current Spec Ops seem to be almost perfectly compatible with new rules. Maybe in 1% of situations a tiny tweak will ne needed, but most of the time it should be as if the edition never changed.

This is mostly true... But only for teams that currently exist. I can apply Sisters Spec-ops content to a KT24 unit of Novitiates with little or no problem. Now try it with Vespids or Aquillons. What are possible backgrounds for Vespid? Unit Quirks? Home Bases? Okay, now how do we expand those homebases with Assets? what sort of requisitions might a Vespid have?

And it will get worse as new teams are released. Will the spec ops content for the Archon's Hand still work with the Wych or Coven Team that's coming? Will the Novitiate spec-ops content be suitable for a mixed team that includes Repentia or Sacressants? Do Corsairs have the same types of Hombases or Assets as Guardians or Wraiths?

Here's another thing to consider: while I loved Spec-ops, it wasn't perfect: everything around the Spec-ops (Base Assets, requisitions, skill trees, etc) was solid, but the actual Spec-ops themselves were really simple- complete x games in which you score Y Tac-ops, then a final game in which you score Z Tac-op, and get a reward. If GW had bothered to carry Spec-ops over, they could have improved it. Now they never will.

Finally, we've got co-op and solo play now, but the replayability on these won't be what it could have been if both the teams and the AI/ environmental elements had been allowed to grow. I think we end up with gimmick play modes that lose interest in six months to be ignored for the rest of the edition. I could certainly be wrong here- we know there is a Joint-ops mission pack, so there will be some variety. But it's only a single set of changeable parameters, limiting the possibilities.

SamusDrake wrote:

Now would be a good time for GW to introduce a new 40K Quest game, as Kill Team 2018 enjoyed cross-over rules with Blackstone Fortress.

Hell yes! After the problems with IA, the loss of Spec-ops and the huge gaping hole in the 40k release schedule, I really need something to be positive about. A BSF style game would fill some holes in the IA dex, it would replace good narrative KT, and it would reduce three months of nothing cool to tolerable levels.

 PenitentJake wrote:

Cyel wrote:
Current Spec Ops seem to be almost perfectly compatible with new rules. Maybe in 1% of situations a tiny tweak will ne needed, but most of the time it should be as if the edition never changed.

This is mostly true... But only for teams that currently exist. I can apply Sisters Spec-ops content to a KT24 unit of Novitiates with little or no problem. Now try it with Vespids or Aquillons. What are possible backgrounds for Vespid? Unit Quirks? Home Bases? Okay, now how do we expand those homebases with Assets? what sort of requisitions might a Vespid have?
.

I'd say just use the default ones. From my attempts at playing Spec Ops it's not like these rules particularly ooze narrative and atmosphere anyway and I remember mostly sticking to generic options myself with my White Scars, because it didn't make that much of a difference (I remember actually avoiding some Intercession options due to them being too strong).

I think a Spec Ops equivalent should become a thing in this edition, and if separated from the basic rules maybe could become something more vibrant and captivating than pretty mechanical and dull Spec Ops of KT21.

 PenitentJake wrote:
What are possible backgrounds for Vespid? Unit Quirks? Home Bases? Okay, now how do we expand those homebases with Assets? what sort of requisitions might a Vespid have?

Maybe there's some similar tables in the secondary book included in the boxed set?

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 PenitentJake wrote:
What are possible backgrounds for Vespid? Unit Quirks? Home Bases? Okay, now how do we expand those homebases with Assets? what sort of requisitions might a Vespid have?

Maybe there's some similar tables in the secondary book included in the boxed set?

Also they were just suggested options, you can easily make your own.