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Personally, I don't think this is up to par for the sort of quality that GW should be striving for. I think for the cost they charge for their games normally, they should be including plastic terrain which is why they stand out over their (cheaper) competition which might include MDF terrain in their 'knock off' version of kill team terrain. I like MDF terrain but I buy GW for the detailed plastics.

That said, I wanted the plague marines before but refused to buy the blind boxes as I wanted a couple of specific sculpts. Some for an AoS warband and some for some Necromunda-adjacent projects. Depending on the price I could happily pick this up and add the MDF terrain as scatter to my mix of existing MDF stuff.

I just wouldn't want to see this to become the normal standard for GW sets, I'd would have much preferred them to have included a sprue of really old plastic like the old oil drums or the old ruins or something rather than lean into MDF. But I get why they might test the market for these. I dont really like the Kill team sales model anyway but do like the models, so if this takes off I can see this becoming just as expensive but a way of making the contents cheaper. So I'm really not the target audience.

It wasn't that long ago we got 9th edition starters that told you to turn the box upside down and use it as terrain, so this is a step up from that. I also think the fact that it can (presumably) all go back in a board game-size box once built is an advantage that's given short-shrift by many committed wargamers.
It seems silly, but that question of "okay, where do I put this now?" does factor in quite a bit with those entirely new to this.

I think the MDF is a pretty cool idea. It lets you use the terrain basically immediately, without having to build and paint a load of plastic; and then you can pack it down flat so that you don't end up with a cubic metre of gothic ruins to try and store.

It would probably be even better in cardboard; but 2nd edition 40K is a lost age...

To have the Space Crusade walls remade like this, I'd be over the moon.

SamusDrake wrote:
To have the Space Crusade walls remade like this, I'd be over the moon.

The 2nd edition box's terrain too!

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Yet more evidence that you're a mug if you buy blind boxes.

So I'm a mug for..... buying the entire set (there was no random), at my shops usual discount, and then enjoying using the models in many many games over the past few years?

the only problem with buying the whole set in the box was the mini you could only get in the paint set

ccs wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Yet more evidence that you're a mug if you buy blind boxes.

So I'm a mug for..... buying the entire set (there was no random), at my shops usual discount, and then enjoying using the models in many many games over the past few years?

That's not exactly a blind buy though is it.

But I don't think that you really missed my point that hard.

 RexHavoc wrote:
Personally, I don't think this is up to par for the sort of quality that GW should be striving for. I think for the cost they charge for their games normally, they should be including plastic terrain which is why they stand out over their (cheaper) competition which might include MDF terrain in their 'knock off' version of kill team terrain. I like MDF terrain but I buy GW for the detailed plastics.

Considering sourcing mdf definitely costs GW more than just shooting a few terrain sprues they already have tooled in house, and is probably heavier to ship to boot, my guess is the sole point of this bizarre escapade is to inflate the perceived value of plastic terrain, even at the cost of "losing money" on this set.

 cole1114 wrote:

The 2nd edition box's terrain too!

Now that is proper Warhammer.

Personally I felt that they had the right idea with KT'18 where they provided WD rules to use Blackstone Fortress for indoor combat. Multiple maps that are easy to choose and get set up, and much better than expecting players to assemble and paint a load of wall models and bits and bobs, as they did for Gallowdark and the other expansions for KT'21.

I think GW would do well if they went for a middle ground with mdf and plastic, similar to the original Necromunda game from the mid-90s. When you have a long flat stretch of card you can mix it up with a more detailed plastic component, such as a connection between two pieces of mdf.

Comparing the price of MDF to plastic is sort of like picking up a hand of dirt from here, and then picking up a hand of dirt from over there and wondering which is the more valuable. Both cost next to nothing until they put a logo on its box.

So same price as previous which had plastic terrain and 22 minis... this one has 14minis and MDF.

Wait a couple years guys and you will get 8 minis and paper.

Someone mentioned Brand value, and yes I agree. Regardless of starters or core sets the quality should be consistent and up there alongside with the prices, I mean thats GW main selling point.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 RexHavoc wrote:
Personally, I don't think this is up to par for the sort of quality that GW should be striving for. I think for the cost they charge for their games normally, they should be including plastic terrain which is why they stand out over their (cheaper) competition which might include MDF terrain in their 'knock off' version of kill team terrain. I like MDF terrain but I buy GW for the detailed plastics.

Considering sourcing mdf definitely costs GW more than just shooting a few terrain sprues they already have tooled in house, and is probably heavier to ship to boot, my guess is the sole point of this bizarre escapade is to inflate the perceived value of plastic terrain, even at the cost of "losing money" on this set.

There's also potentially a benefit to outsourcing something that you're committing to supporting for a number of years that doesn't take up a production slot on the main machines. Depending on how many sprues the terrain would take.
I guess also being a part of a test run for some tournament support as well where you can just ship someone a crate of ready to go stuff that fits your set layouts.

Though really I suspect, given some of the interviews the product design guys have given, this is kind of a test in how much interest there would be in the ready to go battlefield. I think the minis would always be self assemble and paint, but the bulk, shared "boring" stuff being ready to go out of the box easily fits in the mindset behind stuff like contrast paint.

What steps can you take to make things quicker to get to the good stuff.



Painting guide is up already - these models are in blue and green plastic.

Yea a reminder what probably the same price bracket got you 6 years ago



Teams were recycled sculpts back then too, but there was a pound of brand new plastic terrain in the box.

Probably not the same price bracket as the only rumor is £67.50. Lots of people don't want to build, paint and store terrain, so the value of it is up for debate.

People are perpetually salty and whiny over everything these days… oh no, some plebes might enjoy our game too, if there was an easier way to get into it! If this set gets more people playing Kill Team and into GW, is that not a good thing?

It’ll probably end up around half the price of a Hivestorm starter, and a fraction of the work to get playing. And the price point would be competitive with other entry level sets. BattleTech Alpha Strike is $80 USD, and has 13 decent minis, and cardboard terrain at that price point. You might pay $30 more or so for a similar number, but higher quality models and sturdier but still simple MDF terrain with this starter.

Dudeface wrote:
They're kind of getting under my skin with kill team. It's likely a me problem, but I thought we'd get free rules period (I know this is a misunderstanding), I didn't want to buy the big box, I don't really want to but a £37.50 rulebook + accessories kit + a kill team to play solo/coop, which was the plan, so I waited for the normal starter set. Except that doesn't have those rules in either, so they've largely lost my custom for this I think.

FYI, the WarCom article revealing the new Starter set gives us this nugget, “while the full rules used in regular Kill Team games will be available for download from the Warhammer Community website.” Ask and you shall receive…

callidusx3 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
They're kind of getting under my skin with kill team. It's likely a me problem, but I thought we'd get free rules period (I know this is a misunderstanding), I didn't want to buy the big box, I don't really want to but a £37.50 rulebook + accessories kit + a kill team to play solo/coop, which was the plan, so I waited for the normal starter set. Except that doesn't have those rules in either, so they've largely lost my custom for this I think.

FYI, the WarCom article revealing the new Starter set gives us this nugget, “while the full rules used in regular Kill Team games will be available for download from the Warhammer Community website.” Ask and you shall receive…

Not to be salty, but I worry that they are going to weasel their way around with “regular” KT games. So you have the rules to play a one off game, but not a campaign, or solo/coop, or any other game modes.

They have a habit of the free rules being barely enough to play an intro game, but not a lot more.

Hope to be proven wrong here.

callidusx3 wrote:


FYI, the WarCom article revealing the new Starter set gives us this nugget, “while the full rules used in regular Kill Team games will be available for download from the Warhammer Community website.” Ask and you shall receive…

Yeah... Warcom has SAID a lot of things that turned out to be incorrect.

The Lite rules on downloads right now are worth about as much as the marketing degrees of idiots who use the word (not word) "Lite" to describe their products.

I said it from the beginning- you're not getting coop or solo rules free and you're not getting Spec Ops at all. KT24 is DOA hot garbage.

And just wait until you find out that the new gangs only have free rules if you buy the box and get the QR code just like you've got to buy the dex to get access to the "free rules" in 40k. They did put Aquillons and Vespid up, so there's a chance I'm wrong about this last point... But time will tell.

Billicus wrote:
Probably not the same price bracket as the only rumor is £67.50. Lots of people don't want to build, paint and store terrain, so the value of it is up for debate.

than Kill Team is the wrong game for them as it needs a good amount of 3D terrain to play

If one doesn't like that, it would be better playing something else rather than be happy that GW get you a bix that is pretty much useless for the game as a standalone product without purchasing more terrain

So as long as GW doesn't add a full MDF lineup for 3D terrain, stay away from KT if one doesn't like building/painting/storing terrain

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 RexHavoc wrote:
Personally, I don't think this is up to par for the sort of quality that GW should be striving for. I think for the cost they charge for their games normally, they should be including plastic terrain which is why they stand out over their (cheaper) competition which might include MDF terrain in their 'knock off' version of kill team terrain. I like MDF terrain but I buy GW for the detailed plastics.

Considering sourcing mdf definitely costs GW more than just shooting a few terrain sprues they already have tooled in house, and is probably heavier to ship to boot, my guess is the sole point of this bizarre escapade is to inflate the perceived value of plastic terrain, even at the cost of "losing money" on this set.

MDF is much cheaper to produce than plastics. No contest in terms of development and production.

This is (likely) going to be a low cost starter designed for those who want to dip their toe in Kill Team.

Clearly not for seasoned players, but not a bad idea for getting new players into the game.

 kodos wrote:

Billicus wrote:
Probably not the same price bracket as the only rumor is £67.50. Lots of people don't want to build, paint and store terrain, so the value of it is up for debate.

than Kill Team is the wrong game for them as it needs a good amount of 3D terrain to play

If one doesn't like that, it would be better playing something else rather than be happy that GW get you a bix that is pretty much useless for the game as a standalone product without purchasing more terrain

So as long as GW doesn't add a full MDF lineup for 3D terrain, stay away from KT if one doesn't like building/painting/storing terrain

Plenty of people play at clubs and stores that provide terrain. I know loads of players that don't collect terrain as they don't play in their own home. A little bit of variety in the products available never killed anyone, and I don't think GW are gonna stop making terrain kits.

 schoon wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 RexHavoc wrote:
Personally, I don't think this is up to par for the sort of quality that GW should be striving for. I think for the cost they charge for their games normally, they should be including plastic terrain which is why they stand out over their (cheaper) competition which might include MDF terrain in their 'knock off' version of kill team terrain. I like MDF terrain but I buy GW for the detailed plastics.

Considering sourcing mdf definitely costs GW more than just shooting a few terrain sprues they already have tooled in house, and is probably heavier to ship to boot, my guess is the sole point of this bizarre escapade is to inflate the perceived value of plastic terrain, even at the cost of "losing money" on this set.

MDF is much cheaper to produce than plastics. No contest in terms of development and production.

Thats assuming a new plastic kit, but GW has dozens of plastic terrain kits where they have already sunk the development investment and just need to pull the mould off the shelf and give it a dust. So reusing such an asset is probably cheaper for GW than starting a brand new supply chain for a new material that they had no prior development work in.

I can very much believe this release is testing the waters for future mdf releases.

 schoon wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 RexHavoc wrote:
Personally, I don't think this is up to par for the sort of quality that GW should be striving for. I think for the cost they charge for their games normally, they should be including plastic terrain which is why they stand out over their (cheaper) competition which might include MDF terrain in their 'knock off' version of kill team terrain. I like MDF terrain but I buy GW for the detailed plastics.

Considering sourcing mdf definitely costs GW more than just shooting a few terrain sprues they already have tooled in house, and is probably heavier to ship to boot, my guess is the sole point of this bizarre escapade is to inflate the perceived value of plastic terrain, even at the cost of "losing money" on this set.

MDF is much cheaper to produce than plastics. No contest in terms of development and production.

False, especially if GW already has the production tooling for plastic terrain available for re-use from a previous release (they most definitely do). The terrain being shown would be a couple pennies worth of plastic vs about a quarters worth of mdf. The processing time involved with printing the graphics, however that's done, will be time and cost intensive as well. Ignoring that for a second. In the time it would take to laser cut a single kits worth of terrain (probably about 5 minutes - with a higher power laser they could probably cut about a half dozen at once provided theres no engraving), GW could produce several dozen kits worth of plastics.

The plastic terrain is done in china though right? If the MDF can be done in the UK then that changes the calculations massively.

deano2099 wrote:
The plastic terrain is done in china though right? If the MDF can be done in the UK then that changes the calculations massively.

Mostly it is made in the UK. Some kits have been outsourced. They are normally of noticeably worse quality than the in-house terrain kit. I got a plasma obliterator which was a Chinese run, and it is probably the hardest to assemble GW plastic terrain kit I've worked on. The detail is decent but there was a lot of flash and the parts did not fit together well.

 Haighus wrote:

deano2099 wrote:
The plastic terrain is done in china though right? If the MDF can be done in the UK then that changes the calculations massively.

Mostly it is made in the UK. Some kits have been outsourced. They are normally of noticeably worse quality than the in-house terrain kit. I got a plasma obliterator which was a Chinese run, and it is probably the hardest to assemble GW plastic terrain kit I've worked on. The detail is decent but there was a lot of flash and the parts did not fit together well.

Wall of Martyrs and Deathworld Jungle stuff were all china made. Kits on proper sprues, like Sector Mechanicus, Imperialis, Zone Mortalis, ect are all made on the main UK machines.

I believe that depends on the terrain kit in question. There have been some made in the UK over the years, imperialis/titanicus ruins for example.

It probably doesn't change the considerations massively. The reason they're doing it in China to begin with is because it's even cheaper than doing it in the UK. Terrain doesn't sell well, only nutjobs like HMBC and I buy it in appreciable quantities, most folks don't care for it. That means they have to do smaller production lots, which translates to a higher cost per sprue, but that needs to be offset vs the price a consumer is willing to pay. In order to preserve their margins and make it economically feasible and financially lucrative, they have shifted that production to China to reduce the production costs and increase margins on those products. It also allows them to prioritize higher margin/better selling merchandise at their UK operation so they can optimize the financial efficiency of the UK manufacturing operation. Because so much of the terrain is "one and done"/not in continual production, the costs of outsourcing are minimized and mitigated - cost of poor quality is kept down due to small production lot sizes and the impact of shipping delays on restocks etc are eliminated because often the products in question just aren't restocked.

MDF makes sense for a guy working out of their garage because startup and operating costs are low - a few hundred to a couple thousand bucks gets you a laser cutter setup without much hassle. If you're starting out you can buy sheets of mdf at your local hardware store for pocket change, if you're already in the thick of it it's a few hundred bucks a month probably to get bulk rate deliveries. The software needed is fairly straightforward and easy to use, there's no special permits or industrial handling equipment needed, etc. The barriers to entry are low, and the process works for low volume production when you're getting maybe a handful of orders per week, which are fulfilled from a small active inventory or are made to order.

The same guy would need to spend 6 figures to get setup for plastic projection, just the cost of an injection molding machine of suitable size will run mid-high 6 figures minimum and take up your entire garage, then there's another 5 figure investment in getting the utility company to run industrial power feeds to your garage (that's said tongue in cheek - this just isn't happening in your garage, you need to rent or buy a facility for this) + electricians to rewire power in your house and run dedicated circuiting, another 5-6 figures on industrial hvac systems, exhaust and probably also wastewater permitting, etc. You're spending thousands on raw materials that can only be purchased in bulk quantity, etc. Then you need expensive software and an engineering degree to actually properly operate the equipment. Molds start in the 5 figures for a decent sized terrain kit if you're outsourcing the tool making, if you're not, you're looking at another 6 figure investment into equipment and either another college degree or a trade apprenticeship to understand how to properly make the tool. Add in forklift training and industrial handling equipment for good measure. Putting aside most of those considerations, the process itself is only really suited to manufacturing at scale where you're producing and selling kits in the thousands+ so you need to have space to actually store all this stuff and probably a paid staff to manage all the production and sales operations at that point. If you're a startup and trying to recover your costs and break even, it's a steep hill to climb and few people have that kind of money lying around, that's why you see a lot of guys making mdf kits and very few making plastics. Not because it's "cheaper" but because it's financially viable at the scale that these guys are operating.

But, the factors that make mdf viable for a small time operation are in many cases the same factors that make them non-viable for large scale high volume operations where plastics are otherwise justified. Your material costs are higher and there's more waste involved (plastics have sprues, mdf has all the uncut material which often translates to a higher relative proportion of the product), the production throughput is significantly lower due to the factor of time it takes to laser cut the material (which cannot be dramatically increased as that requires a hotter laser, but the material you're cutting is flammable and will ignite and burn if the temperature cranks up top high) unless you get a lot of cutters operating parallel (very space intensive unless you can figure out a way to stack them vertically - ie expensive), and it's also labor intensive and requires a lot of handling vs injection molding (and automation is difficult).

Unless GW has invented a whole new production process (possible though unlikely), the reason for this most likely is not "because it's cheaper". More likely it's because of accessibility (as others noted, easier to assemble, doesn't require paint) or supply chain resiliency (looming trade and/or kinetic wars with China, etc).

Also dont forget that MDF is very heavy, so a stacked box full of sheets would be just undesirable to ship etc.

As you mention there's fewer benefits to scale from MDF so it's also possible they have local production in each major region. Extra cost to shipping is less of a problem if you're not shipping over oceans.
I guess we will find out when it publishes. (It's also quite possible this turns out to be a region-locked product, they have certainly done that before and not mentioned it in the initial announcement)