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Do berserkers fit the “tactical combat” setup of KT? Can you imagine someone with a working brain trying to order them to capture an objective that can’t be murdered? Or sneak in any way?
Like a basic rule would almost have to be that they can’t be given conceal orders ever.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 xttz wrote:
No hard leaks atm, but the current rumours are GK vs WE up next, with Tyranids at some point later.

Good to hear about World Eaters, as they're absence from the game has been noticeable. In fact, I don't know if Khorne Berzerkers have been playable in any recent editions of KT.

Also, when are the Gellerpox coming back in stock? I really want to play that team.

Do note that the current rumours for that team is that it is more Khorne than World Eaters, perhaps being a mix of mortals, daemons and perhaps Astartes.

 Tastyfish wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 xttz wrote:
No hard leaks atm, but the current rumours are GK vs WE up next, with Tyranids at some point later.

Good to hear about World Eaters, as they're absence from the game has been noticeable. In fact, I don't know if Khorne Berzerkers have been playable in any recent editions of KT.

Also, when are the Gellerpox coming back in stock? I really want to play that team.

Do note that the current rumours for that team is that it is more Khorne than World Eaters, perhaps being a mix of mortals, daemons and perhaps Astartes.

If it is GK vs Khorne, it could be a way for GW to get both a GK kit redone before their codex release, and give World Eaters a new unit or two if their own Codex will be model light, since KT releases don't officially take up 40K release slots.

I really want to know about the terrain though.

Kill Team would be the perfect place to release the spoken of, but never seen World Eaters shooting unit. Khorne is not all about Chainaxes!

 alextroy wrote:
Kill Team would be the perfect place to release the spoken of, but never seen World Eaters shooting unit. Khorne is not all about Chainaxes!

There has to be some higher thinking World Eaters floating around... someone has to be the one who has figured out how to corrall Kharn, load him back on the ship for future redeployment.

I can see it now: “Kill Team World Eaters Logistics Team.”

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Kill Team would be the perfect place to release the spoken of, but never seen World Eaters shooting unit. Khorne is not all about Chainaxes!

There has to be some higher thinking World Eaters floating around... someone has to be the one who has figured out how to corrall Kharn, load him back on the ship for future redeployment.

I mean my preferred option there would have been that there isn't. They're all berserkers and all complete loons.

But they are favoured by Khorne and the blood will definitely flow when they are unleashed, so you have cults dedicated to capturing them and unleashing them for the Glory of Khorne!
Maybe some aspirants are recognised as being blood thirsty enough that the World Eaters don't kill them first while there are other enemies to kill, so those guys can get implanted with the geneseed to make more 'knock off' World eaters. But every cult has a bunch of those, if you want a real following and to be taken seriously as a 'World Eater's Warband leader, you'd better have a few originals to throw out to please the crowds.

A kill team based around unleashing one of these monsters, a few aspirants hoping to be recognised/anointed and then the support, hangers on and daemonic "camp followers" feeding in their wake could certainly be interesting.

Maybe some sort of unit of lesser favored, who arent just kill maim burn, but are assigned as snipers/rocketeers who are pushed by Khorne to hunt down enemy cowards who hide in back lines and make others do their fighting for them. Headshots because their skulls are unworthy of khorne's throne

 Tastyfish wrote:

I mean my preferred option there would have been that there isn't. They're all berserkers and all complete loons.

Somebody is crewing all their tanks...

Even back in 3.5 when World Eaters armies basically played themselves, the all-crazy-all-the-time players still had three Predator Annihilators.

I'm not sure that Teeth of Khorne would really work for Kill Team though - for the same reason a Devastator Squad probably wouldn't work; but Berzerkers with bolters/flamers, autogun cultists, khornegors etc would work fine.

Mr_Rose wrote:Do berserkers fit the “tactical combat” setup of KT? Can you imagine someone with a working brain trying to order them to capture an objective that can’t be murdered? Or sneak in any way?
Like a basic rule would almost have to be that they can’t be given conceal orders ever.

They can take and hold objectives in the main game, so I don't see why they couldn't do so in KT. In lore, they aren't all insane all the time, and do follow orders. In the beginning of the novel The Red Path, there's a team of WE waiting in ambush for some White Scars, and they are relying on long range bolters.

Tastyfish wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Kill Team would be the perfect place to release the spoken of, but never seen World Eaters shooting unit. Khorne is not all about Chainaxes!

There has to be some higher thinking World Eaters floating around... someone has to be the one who has figured out how to corrall Kharn, load him back on the ship for future redeployment.

I mean my preferred option there would have been that there isn't. They're all berserkers and all complete loons.

But they are favoured by Khorne and the blood will definitely flow when they are unleashed, so you have cults dedicated to capturing them and unleashing them for the Glory of Khorne!
Maybe some aspirants are recognised as being blood thirsty enough that the World Eaters don't kill them first while there are other enemies to kill, so those guys can get implanted with the geneseed to make more 'knock off' World eaters. But every cult has a bunch of those, if you want a real following and to be taken seriously as a 'World Eater's Warband leader, you'd better have a few originals to throw out to please the crowds.

A kill team based around unleashing one of these monsters, a few aspirants hoping to be recognised/anointed and then the support, hangers on and daemonic "camp followers" feeding in their wake could certainly be interesting.

It's not so much the geneseed that makes World Eaters what they are, so much as the butchers' nails and the influence of Khorne. There are knockoffs in that other legions and warbands have taken to using the nails to create their own World Eaters-like Berzerkers, though I think only the Black Legion has come close to fully recreating the originals. You actually don't need the nails to create Berzerkers, just to fully dedicate yourself to Khorne in a way regular Khorne-marked Marines aren't. I do like the idea of more cult followers, particularly khornegors, as a legion as big as the WE would probably have a diverse assortment of mortal human support, especially since their physical and mental state makes it so that it's probably impossible for most of them to focus non-combat work for any protracted period of time, minus a unit like a Warpsmith.
One unit that is needed is some kind of priest unit, similar to a Dark Apostle. Slaughterpriests exists in lore for the World Eaters, and their are several for the Blades of Khorne army in AoS. Priest units would work well in filling the void created by the lack of psykers.

We definitely need to see Butcher-Surgeons at some point.

 Dysartes wrote:
We definitely need to see Butcher-Surgeons at some point.

Given rumours I've heard from various places, my expectation is that the WE codex will come with that character plus juggernaut cavalry.

The Kill Team thing is a real wildcard though. A few days ago Valrak did describe the upcoming release on stream as a "world eaters kill team", rather than the "Khorne kill team" label he has used up to now. I'm not sure if that was a mistake or just letting something slip early. Plus there's also the long history of 40k not getting daemon releases exclusively, making khorne daemons unlikely for KT.

Given that this season of KT is (so far) focusing on new kits rather than upgrade sprues, I'm very curious what that would mean for WE. I've seen theories about both raptor-style jump pack berzerkers and mutilators, plus a claim that this rumour engine belongs to a WE KT:

 xttz wrote:

Given rumours I've heard from various places, my expectation is that the WE codex will come with that character plus juggernaut cavalry.

Even I can't believe that juggernaut cavalry wouldn't be a level of redundancy too far for GW. World Eaters will already have Blood Crushers and the very plain looking Lord on Juggernaut.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Given rumours I've heard from various places, my expectation is that the WE codex will come with that character plus juggernaut cavalry.

Even I can't believe that juggernaut cavalry wouldn't be a level of redundancy too far for GW. World Eaters will already have Blood Crushers and the very plain looking Lord on Juggernaut.

I don't know. A pendulum swing from the lone Juggernaut Lord (because Daemons were still their own thing in 9th ed) to a dedicated mounted Marine unit on top of the now relocated mounted Daemons in 10th ed sounds believable to me. It's the kind of thing to expect from GW's models first approach.

I wonder what kind of KT will be made for daemons? One idea would be to have one or two models from each god and then some kind of Undivided leader. Or, we could get a whole team of unique Undivided daemons. I think making the team consist of units from only one god would be unfair.

I'd like such teams to be similar to Underworlds daemon bands - highly individualised, characterful, unique models.

Mono-god would be preferrable. I never bought into these themeless melting pot daemon armies.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Given rumours I've heard from various places, my expectation is that the WE codex will come with that character plus juggernaut cavalry.

Even I can't believe that juggernaut cavalry wouldn't be a level of redundancy too far for GW. World Eaters will already have Blood Crushers and the very plain looking Lord on Juggernaut.

That assumes GW develop new models led by the rules. Just ask any GSC player how their totally-not-redundant collection of character models is going

Any World Eater kits still in the pipeline will have been designed several years ago, possibly well before any decision to merge the faction with Daemons or even with the original intention of releasing different models alongside the marine-only 9E codex. That codex did actually include fluff & artwork of Invocatus leading Berzerker cavalry. There's also precedent of 9E codexes including artwork for upcoming Kreig units like Death Riders, whose models weren't seen until 10E.

Ironically Guard did get 'redundant' cavalry kits released in back-to-back codexes. GW's solution to that was to give Death Riders distinct roles from Rough Riders on the tabletop, which is definitely something that could be easily repeated for WE/daemons.

There just seems something wrong about Berserkers riding Juggernauts. I would think they would be getting leg day in to help improve the speed they can run at their enemies and chop them up. I'd like to see them weilding the Juggernaut as a really big club that they bash onto someones skull instead of riding them into battle where they cannot reach the opponent from the backs before the Juggernaut bashes or stomps on them.

KT N&R please, take it everything else to a dedicated topic of its own.

Any info if the rumoured Tyranid terrain is for KT or just normal 40k?

I want GW to refresh the Gargoyles so all Gaunt subspecies are finally updated. Although Tyranid Warriors need new scuplts too.

Jscarlos18 wrote:
Any info if the rumoured Tyranid terrain is for KT or just normal 40k?

I want GW to refresh the Gargoyles so all Gaunt subspecies are finally updated. Although Tyranid Warriors need new scuplts too.

Currently there's no firm rumours on a Tyranid KT, the closest we have is Valrak saying he's heard that some plastic Tyranid terrain is coming and it might be Kill Team related.

If I had to bet I'd say that Shrikes have to be a possible contender. We still don't have a matching unit for the Winged Prime to lead, and Shrikes/Warriors lean naturally into the KT design approach of having individual specialists more so than most other Tyranids.

I am still baffled they didn't do Terminators vs stealers for the spaceship terrain.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
I am still baffled they didn't do Terminators vs stealers for the spaceship terrain.

For proper space hulk action the Genestealers would have to be some form of NPC wave enemy, as the purestrains don't really do 'specialists'.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:
I am still baffled they didn't do Terminators vs stealers for the spaceship terrain.

For proper space hulk action the Genestealers would have to be some form of NPC wave enemy, as the purestrains don't really do 'specialists'.

terminators are a bit too strong for the scale of kill team, too, so i'm not sure how well the concept works

Yeah it seems like more of a boarding actions scale game than kill team.

A terminator / genestealer / mortalis terrain box might be a slam dunk for GW, but I could easily see them waiting until the release of updated assault terminator models to do it. Seems like a release best timed towards the end of 10th edition after most of the codexes are done.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:
I am still baffled they didn't do Terminators vs stealers for the spaceship terrain.

For proper space hulk action the Genestealers would have to be some form of NPC wave enemy, as the purestrains don't really do 'specialists'.

I routinely ran compendium 'Stealer teams in Kill team, especially for newer players. They had some 'equipment' options, though I tended to make them all identical as used them for opponents for new players.

Likewise terminators were quite possible to do given most of their weaponry existed and the heavy primaris types were already included. We had house roles for them but no idea what I did with them.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:
I am still baffled they didn't do Terminators vs stealers for the spaceship terrain.

For proper space hulk action the Genestealers would have to be some form of NPC wave enemy, as the purestrains don't really do 'specialists'.

terminators are a bit too strong for the scale of kill team, too, so i'm not sure how well the concept works

I’ve been thinking about it and you’d basically have to limit it to a strictly Tactical squad with only the heavy gunner as an option. Give them 2APL as the main balance against 2+ saves and Astartes but also give the warriors “implacable advance” where they can move and shoot their stormbolter. 15/16 wounds each and maybe give the stormbolter a a range cap too, but Ceaseless.
Beyond that, squad abilities are going to be a much more complicated exercise and probably amount to straight nerfs like not being able to climb or jump, and no taking the grenades equipment. Not sure how to represent the Crux Terminatus, if at all.
Five models would be the smallest squad in KT24 so far I believe?
But yeah, tricky.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
purestrains don't really do 'specialists'.

There are a surprising number of variant/specialist genestealers:
Miasmic (gassy)
Reaperfex (scythes, quick)
Bulwark (extended carapace)
Scythe strain (sort of non-psychic scythed broodlord)
Stalker strain (cameleon)
Warrior strain (spits acid)

The_Real_Chris wrote:
I am still baffled they didn't do Terminators vs stealers for the spaceship terrain.

I kind of wondered initially, but then this game already exists with Space Hulk - and I think if I could play Kill team Terminators vs Genestealers or Space Hulk, I'd probably go Space Hulk as it's got stuff in set up specifically for that match up.

You wouldn't really be using half of the rules and the differences between the teams would be less pronounced, or you'd be tweaking the stats and numbers away from what you would have had in 40K/direct conversion to Kill team and Space Hulk. All of which means it would probably end up being a lesser game than either Gallowdark Kill team or conventional Space Hulk.

KT24 could easily cater to something resembling a Space Hulk game, cosmetically speaking. Play a Gallowdark mission in jointOps mode, against stealers, using counts-as-Custodes rules for the Marines.

However, it will never "feel" like playing Space Hulk. Might be fun though!