Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Karol wrote:
Probably a tie between the Primaris Reavers and Primaris Bunker. Units that no one asked for, no one wants, that have no reason to be bought, used etc.

Ehh, i'd say the concept of the units is wanted, the issue is GW's inability to give them any sort of decent rules...

Dumbest units for 40k? Mind you, my primary years of 40k were 3rd/4th and most of 5th edition, so I have not much reference for dumb things since then.

For the necrons I think the flayed ones were the dumbest.
For space marines, the centurions
For tau, I always thought the kroot didn't fit in at all, even if the vespids started off weak they at least fit the theme well enough.
Imperial guard, the rough riders, I still think its cool for cavalry to run around with huge bomb tipped lances, but its still dumb, cool and dumb.
For eldar, wraithlords with swords
Grey knights, those knight/mech things.
Orks, the mega armor that came out in 3rd/4th was just so dumb to me, and those power claws. I know they're kinda iconic to orks now but I still don't like it.
Chaos space marines, I liked their old dreadnoughts and I think hellbrutes are a dumb substitute.

 Overread wrote:
Heck original Necrons had a LOT of Egyptian iconography going on for them. They were very literally TombKings in Space. Modern Necrons are, design wise, quite a good bit removed from that. It's still here and there in their designs, but its far less overt/bold than it was back with the original designs.

I still miss the giant scarab though...

Every time Marines get larger Scarabs must get smaller

 Overread wrote:
Heck original Necrons had a LOT of Egyptian iconography going on for them. They were very literally TombKings in Space. Modern Necrons are, design wise, quite a good bit removed from that. It's still here and there in their designs, but its far less overt/bold than it was back with the original designs.

Are you kidding? Because to me, Necrons over the last few editions have just become even more Tomb Kings... in... SPAAAAACE!

The dumbest unit is and will always be the 7th edition Super-Heavy walker Guilliman

Because when you used the knights detatchment to turn guilliman into a vehicle without armour characteristics it broke the rules of game ( as in there was no way to resolve how it worked)

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Heck original Necrons had a LOT of Egyptian iconography going on for them. They were very literally TombKings in Space. Modern Necrons are, design wise, quite a good bit removed from that. It's still here and there in their designs, but its far less overt/bold than it was back with the original designs.

Are you kidding? Because to me, Necrons over the last few editions have just become even more Tomb Kings... in... SPAAAAACE!

The 2nd edition article that introduced the Necrons literally included instructions on how to build a pyramid.

The Battlefleet Gothic Necron Super Crescent Death Ship that liked to lightning my ships from the skies (whose name I can't remember) had a giant pyramid as its bridge.

Pretty much all necron ships have a pyramid control centre. The Cairn battleship was just bigger so it stood out more.

^Loved those things, and the general vibe of the Necron BFG rules.

Their design was really good, with the shroud and scythe being the weakest.

They could have removed the tail on the scythe and it would have still looked good, it just looks out of place with that long spindly bit.

The shroud has a generally ok silhouette, but it looks too much like 3 separate ships stuck together.


All in all though, BFG has the best aesthetically coherent range of miniatures GW ever produced, Each fleet is visually unique and really interesting.

My absolute favourite GW game, and Gordon Rennie's two novels Execution Hour and Shadowpoint are my two favourite novels. Not the least of which because Shadowpoint has the best depiction of eldar and the badassery that is the avatar put to print.

I don't know the BFG Tyranids are some of the worst models I think GW ever made. Granted by that point the game was on life support hidden in the depths of Forgeworld mailorder as I recall.


But yeah the majority of BFG ships were utterly awesome, but the Tyranids just missed the mark. The Hive Ship just seemed like a long noodle of rolled up greenstuff with some straight tentacles stuck out the front. The other ships looked ok but they didn't give a sense of vast scale like you get with Imperial, Ork and Eldar ships. Those ships felt like huge interstellar warships; the Tyranids didn't

 Overread wrote:
I don't know the BFG Tyranids are some of the worst models I think GW ever made. Granted by that point the game was on life support hidden in the depths of Forgeworld mailorder as I recall.


But yeah the majority of BFG ships were utterly awesome, but the Tyranids just missed the mark. The Hive Ship just seemed like a long noodle of rolled up greenstuff with some straight tentacles stuck out the front. The other ships looked ok but they didn't give a sense of vast scale like you get with Imperial, Ork and Eldar ships. Those ships felt like huge interstellar warships; the Tyranids didn't

I am so used to Tyranid fleets being kitbashed from tyranid bits and looking 10 billion times better, that I completely forgot there were real official models. The hive ship just looked like an actual turd...

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
The issue that 40k will always have is the sci-fi esthetic.

In fantasy games, you can have zany, nutty things that don't make a lick of sense (homing pigeon bombs and giant hamster balls) but you can go with it....

On 40k, you have the sci-fi feel, where you can't help but wonder, is this a possible future, could we have this some day... which leads to...

Why, gods of woe, why, would they build something like this?

I think that's the real issue here.

Nah, I don't think so. The only faction that has a Sci-Fi-aesthetic are the Tau and that's exactly the reason why a part of the community still dislikes them . Even Necrons today are more tomb kings in space than Terminator.

I thought it was more because they felt like such a targeted addition; "how can we expand our market share in Asia? Gundams are popular I guess...".

That reminds me, the stormsurge. Thunder thighs, no arms and an exposed crew for some reason.

 insaniak wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Heck original Necrons had a LOT of Egyptian iconography going on for them. They were very literally TombKings in Space. Modern Necrons are, design wise, quite a good bit removed from that. It's still here and there in their designs, but its far less overt/bold than it was back with the original designs.

Are you kidding? Because to me, Necrons over the last few editions have just become even more Tomb Kings... in... SPAAAAACE!

The 2nd edition article that introduced the Necrons literally included instructions on how to build a pyramid.

Oh, I'm not saying they never had those influences, just that over the years GW has leaned ever more into them.

shortymcnostrill wrote:

I thought it was more because they felt like such a targeted addition; "how can we expand our market share in Asia? Gundams are popular I guess..."..

That was only ever an idea bandied about by the internet experts. Tau were never intended to appeal specifically to the Asian market. According to the Devs from the time, they knew full well that they couldn't produce kits as good as Gundam, and the Asian market was more likely to be interested in the parts of the range that are different to what they already have access to, anyway.

 insaniak wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:

I thought it was more because they felt like such a targeted addition; "how can we expand our market share in Asia? Gundams are popular I guess..."..

That was only ever an idea bandied about by the internet experts. Tau were never intended to appeal specifically to the Asian market. According to the Devs from the time, they knew full well that they couldn't produce kits as good as Gundam, and the Asian market was more likely to be interested in the parts of the range that are different to what they already have access to, anyway.

Ah, fair enough

there's also nothing about 40k that wouldn't already be appealing to east asian audiences; Gundam (and mecha at large) is a Japanese thing which has found occasional popularity in other countries, but the real strength of 40k is in its power fantasy, and if there's anything to be learned from the popularity of naroukei, chinese web novels, and manhwa, it's that people everywhere love power fantasies

and this is without getting into the ways that the T'au are actually asian; that is, everyone focuses on the robots as being Japanese, but the actual society of the T'au is far more Indian than anything else. i suspect something like that wouldn't be appealing in India, due to how controversial the caste system actually is (there's also just a lot of orientalism at play in their design, and asian people don't really appreciate racism)

A lot of the whole "Western/eastern audiences won't like X franchise/game/concept" is often just flat out wrong.


It can be based on poor regional translation/adaptation where the original material was messed around and changed; or when the adaptation is given a release slot that doesn't work (eg for Tv putting it on an obscure channel at a very bad timeslot like midnight); etc...

Or its just based on the market not having anything comparable so they make the assumption if that if its not there no one will want/like it

 Overread wrote:
A lot of the whole "Western/eastern audiences won't like X franchise/game/concept" is often just flat out wrong.


It can be based on poor regional translation/adaptation where the original material was messed around and changed; or when the adaptation is given a release slot that doesn't work (eg for Tv putting it on an obscure channel at a very bad timeslot like midnight); etc...

Or its just based on the market not having anything comparable so they make the assumption if that if its not there no one will want/like it

it could also just be that there's something else which already exists in that space. what i've heard of Japanese TTRPG popularity, for example, is interesting, because of what was made available and in what order, means that D&D is not the dominant force that it is in the anglosphere; i've heard more creators be influenced by Call of Cthulhu or Wizardry than D&D. in this case, if warhammer isn't popular in Japan, it could simply be that any of a number of different modeling games or hobbies fill the space instead

Controversial entry, and perhaps one more disappointment than dumb. But its impact has been arguably dumb?

Chaos Spawn



Now, the kit itself is actually alright overall, especially given its age. But, its existence means fewer people are converting their own gribbly beast of twisted flesh. Which given we now have set dimensions and base size for a Chaos Spawn is really daft to me.

We could, and arguably should, being going bonkers on those creepy little dudes. They’re Chaos Spawn. They can look like anything

Check out the original retail model from 1998. That to me is much more like it!



https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:ChaosSpawn1998.jpeg

I think the Storm Surge suffered from an identity crisis. They wanted a knight sized battle mech for the "Gundam" faction but couldnt make it look like a Gundam, and couldnt have smooth lines like the eldar knight. Then they designed it and suddenly went "oh crap we made a Battlemech." Cant have it look like a Battlemech for copyright reasons. Thus we ended up with an open cockpit, walking quasi-artillery piece with no arms, that really makes no sense for the faction that is reknowned for its high mobility suits.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Controversial entry, and perhaps one more disappointment than dumb. But its impact has been arguably dumb?

Chaos Spawn

Spoiler:

Now, the kit itself is actually alright overall, especially given its age. But, its existence means fewer people are converting their own gribbly beast of twisted flesh. Which given we now have set dimensions and base size for a Chaos Spawn is really daft to me.

We could, and arguably should, being going bonkers on those creepy little dudes. They’re Chaos Spawn. They can look like anything

Check out the original retail model from 1998. That to me is much more like it!



https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:ChaosSpawn1998.jpeg

the problem with chaos spawn is an inevitable one. as GW moved towards plastic, this was always going to happen as long as spawn got a plastic kit. they could have picked a different design, but they would only be able to have so many bodies in the box, especially since every part needs to be compatible with every other part. bodies that can stand up on their own would have been appreciated ,tho

conversely, i would say that the chaos spawn kit is a fantastically designed kit for including options in a box. modern cost of it aside, it's truly great for kitbashers. if they ever do replace it, it'll be hard to make a kit that rivals it

Oh the kit itself is pretty great (though not a fan of the bodies myself). It’s that it’s seen too few folk convert up or entirely scratch build their own to the same specification.

Then again, I have a permanent bee in my bonnet* about the general degribblification of Chaos, with far too few manky mutations in evidence. Except, perversely, on the Thousand Son Sorcerors who, as the benefit of the Rubric, are meant to be immune to the flesh change.

*I’ve named it Algernon. Hooooooooo momma is it one angry bee!

Overread wrote:I don't know the BFG Tyranids are some of the worst models I think GW ever made. Granted by that point the game was on life support hidden in the depths of Forgeworld mailorder as I recall.

The Tyranid addition to BFG was pretty rushed in general. I remember my dad going to the official GW forums to complain that all the typos in their rules made them unplayable- though we did play a single game with Escort Drones having firepower 6 pyro-acid, which was entertaining for me and less so for him...

But yeah, I think most people just ended up kitbashing their own while disagreeing over which end of the official Cruiser model (itself looking like a kitbash from a Tyranid Warrior) is supposed to be the front.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Controversial entry, and perhaps one more disappointment than dumb. But its impact has been arguably dumb?

Chaos Spawn

I agree- the plastic Spawn always struck me as toy-like, like action figures. I think the studio scheme probably contributes to that look.

The pewter design that predates the plastic Spawn is a little dumpy by modern standards but I think looks a lot more gross and deformed, rather than just spikes everywhere:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh the kit itself is pretty great (though not a fan of the bodies myself). It’s that it’s seen too few folk convert up or entirely scratch build their own to the same specification.

Then again, I have a permanent bee in my bonnet* about the general degribblification of Chaos, with far too few manky mutations in evidence. Except, perversely, on the Thousand Son Sorcerors who, as the benefit of the Rubric, are meant to be immune to the flesh change.

*I’ve named it Algernon. Hooooooooo momma is it one angry bee!

It's weird because i personally have never seen anyone run that kit IRL, it's always been a kitbash/scratchbuild/3d print

I saw the most bizarre BFG game once, it was Tau v Tau. But one side had the all metal GW cigar Tau and the other side had beautiful FW Tau, which looked like how everyone imagined the Tau to look in space.

But because the universe is GrimDark, the ugly Tau won.

The dumbest unit is by far and away the Deathstrike Missile.

"Sir, we have the intercontinental ballistic missiles you ordered!"

"Excellent! Now, drive them to within 100 yards of the enemy!"

Point of order on the Deathstrike, as it originated in Epic which, whilst still somewhat silly, wasn’t as silly as its latter day 28mm version.

 some bloke wrote:
The dumbest unit is by far and away the Deathstrike Missile.

"Sir, we have the intercontinental ballistic missiles you ordered!"

"Excellent! Now, drive them to within 100 yards of the enemy!"

I've played enough C&C Generals to know that's exactly how you use your SCUD launcher in real life, too .