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There's a guy at the shop whose always there and ready for a game.... but....

When the game starts to go against him... he concedes....

Every single time.

I know its every player's right to concede a game if they aren't having fun.

But this guy will immediately say, "Want to play again?" upon conceding.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this feels like a sore loser mentality.

What should I say?

It’s probably a fairly thin line between just fine, and rather rude behaviour.
If they basically give in after a single bad roll, and want a reset, honestly I would tell them No.. a lot.
A lot of players here are MTG players, so conceding from a almost certain loss is common.
Probably hard to say exactly without knowing them. If they are super nice, maybe need to get them playing some board games that don’t count points until the final turn.

 Apple fox wrote:
It’s probably a fairly thin line between just fine, and rather rude behaviour.
If they basically give in after a single bad roll, and want a reset, honestly I would tell them No.. a lot.
A lot of players here are MTG players, so conceding from a almost certain loss is common.
Probably hard to say exactly without knowing them. If they are super nice, maybe need to get them playing some board games that don’t count points until the final turn.

I didn't think of MtG. Players do concede really quickly in that game.

I'll see if he plays. It might be a holdover from CCGs.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Apple fox wrote:
It’s probably a fairly thin line between just fine, and rather rude behaviour.
If they basically give in after a single bad roll, and want a reset, honestly I would tell them No.. a lot.
A lot of players here are MTG players, so conceding from a almost certain loss is common.
Probably hard to say exactly without knowing them. If they are super nice, maybe need to get them playing some board games that don’t count points until the final turn.

I didn't think of MtG. Players do concede really quickly in that game.

I'll see if he plays. It might be a holdover from CCGs.

It could be, but a win state in MTG is easy to spot, and resetting a game for a new one is easy, and low effort. So players here don’t concede so easy in 40K. I still think it unusual for a 40K player to do it, just since setting up can take more effort. And people don’t have time for two games as often even if super fast.

If it's constant, after a time or three I'd probably say either "No, thanks" or "sure, but we play it through"

Some people game for the win, if they can't win they concede because to them there's no point playing if they can't get the win. Or at least if they can't see themselves potentially winning.

If they are also a defeatist individual who is non-adaptive to a game changing state then yeah they could easily be someone who really wants to game lots, but at the same time really wants to win and only win and not play through to a loss.



Honestly if they always do it I'd

1) Politely refuse

2) Agree, but insist that you game through to the very end or at least "end of turn 6"

The fact that they are always up for a game and open for one likely means that they've burned through others at the club as well with this pattern.

Whatever the reason, I'd have little interest in playing this person. In a given game I want to see where the story goes, even if it's in a resounding defeat for me. I never concede unless we're very near the end, the conclusion is clear and there's a time issue

An obvious exception is games like Mordheim where bottling out is part of wise campaign play and multiple games in an evening is encouraged.

 Overread wrote:

Honestly if they always do it I'd

1) Politely refuse

2) Agree, but insist that you game through to the very end or at least "end of turn 6"

The fact that they are always up for a game and open for one likely means that they've burned through others at the club as well with this pattern.

Maybe it's be worth it to gauge their interest level when they want to concede by saying.

"That's ok, but I'm not up to play again tonight, would you like to play another turn or two?"

It sounds like what they're really asking to re-rack, which might have a few motivations.

It's honestly a good way to get practice, as you can get a good feel for the crucial opening plays and learn ways to play the scenario and what kind of threats to be aware of. You can often do this twice in a night even when you can't get in 2 full games.

It's also always possible that they're quick to give up on their chances and want another shot at victory. Also not inherently a bad thing but it can definitely be less satisfying than a full game and can cause players to fail to grasp how to close out the end game. Part of the problem is that if they've given up, they're probably not going to play well enough to mount a comeback regardless, but its still really important to learn to play full games.

It's probably a good idea to get an idea what they're after and set some expectations early. "Want to practice the early game?" is a fine reason. "I'll only play turn 3 if I'm winning" is an attitude that probably needs some introspection.

I'd accept it as a thing that happens sometimes, like 1 game in 10 or something, but if it was a regular thing I'd ask them to stop doing it or stop playing against them. I think it's not really in the right spirit for me, and we're likely playing at cross purposes.

I am not against conceeding a game at all. I mean, if it is a foregone conclusion, why waste time playing out the inevitable. Boring.

It would be more fun to either try again with different factors than to just pointlessly roll dice until I lose.

However, that would mean something would need to change to bother playing again. New mission, swapping armies, adjusting game size, swapping out units, shuffling terrain, etc. A simple reset is just as boring as they same thing will happen.

I had a guy, back in 3rd edition 40k, where I got the first turn. My Necron vs his Space Wolves. First turn I destroyed his Leman Russ Exterminator (yes, this was a SW option back then), caught one unit in crossfire, and two units failed moral tests and ran off the board. In cases like this, yeah I totally understand a forfeit and regame.

On the other end of the spectrum, still 3rd ed, I faced a World Eaters player. HE got first turn and packed up because he whiffed on three major rolls.

It's potentially worth explaining to them that it's less fun when an opponent concedes as soon as things go against them, and in games like 40K unexpected turnarounds can happen when games are allowed to play out.

There's considerably less value in insisting on them playing the game out if they really don't want to, though. Playing against someone who really wants to be somewhere else is, in my experience, far worse than ending a game early.

I'd take a singe instance of said behaviour. After the second one, I'd politely refuse to play them ever again.

It's one thing to concede, and another to be unwilling to adapt to unforeseen mishaps on the table, and shows not only bad sportsmanship but also weak "strategic resilience". A good player learns from their mistakes, a snowflake who cannot deal with any sort of mishaps in life deserves a life sentence of bad karma

 Lathe Biosas wrote:


Correct me if I'm wrong, but this feels like a sore loser mentality.

What should I say?

Determine intent.

1. Is he tournament prepping? Did he see that you clearly had the upper hand and saw no reasonable way to recover? Did he attempt a new deployment and turn 1-2 strategy and it backfired? Does he simply want to try another deployment strategy now that he's seen his mistake(s)?

2. Is he a Debbie Downer that will only play out a game if he can win?

If 1, then are you OK with that? Did you come to Tournament prep? Do you want to tighten your end-game strategies? All of that will factor into your answer. It's worth a conversation if you like playing with this person.

If 2, your call. Personally, I'd rather sit and read through my codex than re-rack against Mr. Try Hard.

or 3 are they under a time contraint (eg have to get home before 9 to make dinner for their partner, have to pick up the kid from their friends etc)

if so maybe suggest a different point level (or game) so the whole game can be finished faster

(but i suspect No2 is probably more likely and agree with your choice)

Ah, this takes me back...

Many years ago (2nd was actually current!) I got together for a Saturday game with two of my friends. All of us were just starting out, and the armies were Tyranids vs Space Marines, with me and a pal playing a combined army of Blood Angels/Ultras. Only 1,000 points per side. I had a tactical squad, my friend some terminators and a character or two. The Nids had a hive tyrant, lictor and genestealers.

About the only thing that went well for us was having actually bought anti-plant missiles and using them on a shrub in which a lictor was concealed. The shrub went away, and the rest of the army hosed the lictor down. We imagined the lictor comically hunched down and then all the cover vanishing in a cloud of poison, and it still crouching as a hail of bolter and assault cannot shells rained down.

After that, everything went down hill for us, and we suggested ending the game because our side was getting demolished, but our opponent insisted on playing it out because he wanted to wipe us out to the last man. So we hung on and finally, on the last turn, the last terminator was completely surrounded by genestealers, and just to be sure he killed him, the hive tyrant fired the venom cannon into the melee (you could do that in 2nd). He was really gloating, pouring on the scorn.

And he missed! And it scattered onto a genestealer! And the Thudd Gun template made an incredible loop that hit every genestealer and missed the terminator!

Oh, how we laughed at him. We demanded a rematch for the next afternoon and he agreed. Double the points, he with 2000, us with 1,000 each.

The next day, he's a half-hour late, so we call him, and he just woke up. Says he'll be there in an hour. We were playing at a long-gone FLGS, and to pass the time we strolled over to a bar and split a pitcher of Killian's. Properly braced, we returned and our friend showed up, and we set about playing the game. He was very happy to show off his Carnifex, which he had dumped absurd amount of points into, supposedly making it invulnerable. We immediately put that to the test.

He literally had it in the middle of a street, like a gunfighter, so the combined firepower of a dreadnought, landraider, and devastator squad rained down on it. It was reduced below zero, but could regenerate each wound on a 4+, and managed to just get back into positive territory. So we hit it again, and drove it to -30, and it stayed down. Meanwhile, the assault marines had landed on top of a building overlooking the genestealers and rained grenades down on them from the sixth floor.

The Nid player immediately quit, to the point of packing up his models without waiting for a reply. We demanded an opportunity to pay him back for the day before, but he said that he had better things to do than play a losing game.

We remained friends, but didn't game much with him after that.

This kind of reminds me of people who want to "get in their reps", to get better at the game, like... if at some point you think you're going to lose then there might be a perception that you will not gain much enjoyment or experience by continuing to play, and then being eager to play another game right away means you are thinking about how you could maybe do things different to see how they go.

It could also be a way to see how much luck is playing in your army vs the composition of the army vs your skill as a player.

I’m going to be uncharacteristically harsh.

I’ve spent hours painting my army. To get to a game involves arranging my free time to allow for it. That can include having a big lunch instead of supper if our board time starts fairly early in the evening, and I’m allowing let’s say 3 hours for rolling some bones and having some fun.

If they’re regularly conceding? I’m not getting what I want out of my evening’s time commitment. Even if it’s a local game, that’s still a Very Bad Show, more so if I’ve driven to the club.

Most worryingly? How do they expect to improve if they’re not pushing themselves? I’m sure that just as all of us have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, we’ve all had games which started out really badly, only to play our little socks off and force a draw, or even squeak a win.

Now, don’t get me wrong, that’s not to say Never Ever Concede. I’ve had games where my first turn has been so utterly disastrous, there’s just no real chance of me coming back. Likewise it’s been my opponent that’s suffered a truly crippling blow really early on. In both cases, I don’t think conceding and going again is necessarily a bad thing. So long as there’s no talk of “that game didn’t count” etc.

Example? WHFB. First shot of the game, my Bolt Thrower skewered the Orc Big Boss from atop its Wyvern. Wyvern legged it as a result of the Monster Reaction test, and a couple of his other units Panicked off the board. It was a truly spectacular shot, no doubt. But my opponent was basically crippled. Likewise I’ve had two or three Artillery pieces just sort of detonate themselves. A single Nova Cannon shot in BFG, the first of that game knacked his Battle Barge, and the resulting explosion gutted a good portion of his fleet. In those situations you’ve just got to laugh, curse the dice gods, and chalk up the loss. Then, time allowing Go Again. Because whilst those results are fun, and funny? They’re not particularly satisfying for either party.

But when it’s a regular, predictable reaction to things Not Going Exactly To Their Plan? I think I’d just rather not play that person.

Having given my horror story, I do think there are times when it is sensible to admit the game has been decided and the result isn't going to be very interesting for either player.

This in fact happened in my last game. My wife's Ultras clearly have the upper hand over my badly mismanaged Orks, and there is one turn left. A quick review of the numbers made it clear that the only way the result could change is if she went completely insane and self-destructed her army. There are some remaining melees to be found, but they are very lopsided, so unless one just wants to roll dice, it's over.

Mutual agreement is a good thing, and we can now plan the next game.

There might be an option 4.

What if he's autistic?

I've seen some interactions with other players and he's made some demands on their armies.

He behaves in a way that I would not equate to normal social behavior.

An incident I witnessed:

He was playing against an Ultramarines player and the plops down Bobby G.

Conceeder says, "I don't play against primarchs."

And starts packing up his models.

He doesn't ask his opponent to change something, or ask if something else can be used... he just starts putting his stuff away.

That got me thinking that maybe something else was going on.

I still won't play 40k with him though. Its just not fun. I will play WarCry against him (because I like WarCry and can't find any opponents ).

Eh, not sure that’s Autistic. Could just be Edgelord.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Eh, not sure that’s Autistic. Could just be Edgelord.

You could be right about that. Was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I hate the fact that some people who play are just donkey-caves.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Eh, not sure that’s Autistic. Could just be Edgelord.

Some years ago there was a net-comic that had two guys standing there and one says "Let's play 40k!"

"Cool. I play [I forget the faction] and like to use these units. What do you run?"

"Oh, I run [overpowered army of the moment]."

"Wow, okay. You win."

"Yeah, thanks. It's been fun."

"For sure!"

During 5th Edition Fantasy, it was possible for Chaos players to win the game before it started. Pretty wild.

Yeah, it’s definitely a lesser seen thing. But there’ve been folks that at least claimed to refuse to fight against an army with Special Characters.

FW was always “opponents permission”, but SC weren’t beyond 2nd Ed, if memory serves?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yeah, it’s definitely a lesser seen thing. But there’ve been folks that at least claimed to refuse to fight against an army with Special Characters.

FW was always “opponents permission”, but SC weren’t beyond 2nd Ed, if memory serves?

3rd still had the ability to say no, for certain characters.

Thought a bit more, and it’s definitely contextual.

As I covered in my earlier post, there are some games where it’s clear You’ve No Chance super early on. Dice Rebellion, utterly botched deployment, even an extremely poor match up in terms of lists.

There? I’ve no real issue with someone conceding if it’s clear they’re not likely to enjoy what follows in the coming turns.

Though I would applaud someone at least trying a Proper Hail Mary thing first, that’s not a condition of my approval.

But if it’s someone’s stock reaction to any game which looks like being an uphill struggle? I won’t be inclined to play them terribly often. Especially if their current woes are down to My Tacticul Jeenyus, and not sheer blind luck. Even more so if I’m reading the board and seeing they have clear options to claw it back.

There was a mention earlier of someone having to bail due to time constraints.

There, it’s yes and no from me, again largely contextual. The unexpected crops up. Plans can change in the blink of an eye. There? No problem.

But if my opponent makes a habit of it? Like they’re expecting to wrap up a game in an hour? Nah, you’re taking the mick there.

Of course, anyone wanting to concede when I’ve got them on the ropes and “call it a draw” can sod right off. You don’t get to escape a defeat by just wandering off!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Thought a bit more, and it’s definitely contextual.

As I covered in my earlier post, there are some games where it’s clear You’ve No Chance super early on. Dice Rebellion, utterly botched deployment, even an extremely poor match up in terms of lists.

There? I’ve no real issue with someone conceding if it’s clear they’re not likely to enjoy what follows in the coming turns.

Though I would applaud someone at least trying a Proper Hail Mary thing first, that’s not a condition of my approval.

But if it’s someone’s stock reaction to any game which looks like being an uphill struggle? I won’t be inclined to play them terribly often. Especially if their current woes are down to My Tacticul Jeenyus, and not sheer blind luck. Even more so if I’m reading the board and seeing they have clear options to claw it back.

There was a mention earlier of someone having to bail due to time constraints.

There, it’s yes and no from me, again largely contextual. The unexpected crops up. Plans can change in the blink of an eye. There? No problem.

But if my opponent makes a habit of it? Like they’re expecting to wrap up a game in an hour? Nah, you’re taking the mick there.

Of course, anyone wanting to concede when I’ve got them on the ropes and “call it a draw” can sod right off. You don’t get to escape a defeat by just wandering off!

What if they start packing up their stuff?

Haha! You can't gloat then!

I’m still not calling it a draw. I’ve run into opponents who, once it starts looking bad for them, claim to be out of time and “call it a draw”.

Nope. If you withdraw from the field of battle, unless it’s a proper emergency (my Hamster’s fallen over and can’t get up, I’ve just found out my Microwave is pregnant, My Granny just exploded, The Bolsheviks are trying to annex my lavvy - again, etc) in which case sure, No Score Draw and we’ll reschedule? Then victory is mine.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m still not calling it a draw. I’ve run into opponents who, once it starts looking bad for them, claim to be out of time and “call it a draw”.

Nope. If you withdraw from the field of battle, unless it’s a proper emergency (my Hamster’s fallen over and can’t get up, I’ve just found out my Microwave is pregnant, My Granny just exploded, The Bolsheviks are trying to annex my lavvy - again, etc) in which case sure, No Score Draw and we’ll reschedule? Then victory is mine.

According to the rules, you still have to play the rest of the game after they remove their models from the tabletop.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m still not calling it a draw. I’ve run into opponents who, once it starts looking bad for them, claim to be out of time and “call it a draw”.

Nope. If you withdraw from the field of battle, unless it’s a proper emergency (my Hamster’s fallen over and can’t get up, I’ve just found out my Microwave is pregnant, My Granny just exploded, The Bolsheviks are trying to annex my lavvy - again, etc) in which case sure, No Score Draw and we’ll reschedule? Then victory is mine.

According to the rules, you still have to play the rest of the game after they remove their models from the tabletop.

I mean, how long does that take tho? "ok I end my turn, ok i end my turn, ok I end my turn" for how ever many turns are left.