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2026/02/26 22:20:00
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
LunarSol wrote: Yeah, that's why I said something. They popped up on my feed and I found their insight genuinely interesting but the algorithm kept feeding me their stuff and its just all the same sky is falling engagement farming. I quickly found it turned into another "why you shouldn't enjoy things" glut in my feed and decided I just needed to block it.
A year ago they got bad. And they are REALLY smug about it. and they LOVE to insult games they dont play.
I cant remember what video, but they said you shouldnt let pople play dead games or games you dont carry in the store because they are wasting space.
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2026/02/26 22:30:15
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
So basically they're like half of gamers and not pretending to be anything more? As a subniche community,we've been a catty bunch since the old bbs days.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2026/02/26 22:58:46
2026/02/26 22:46:30
Subject: Re:SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
Well I just cannot imagine the frustrating process of these short lived war-games that retailers have to endure... This is not like a card game you can dump on the table after you buy them. You have to buy, assemble, paint etc and that takes time... but life time is not something these games have so what is the point? How can a retailer invest in this, another time, and "convince" clients its different now?
NAVARRO wrote: Well I just cannot imagine the frustrating process of these short lived war-games that retailers have to endure... This is not like a card game you can dump on the table after you buy them. You have to buy, assemble, paint etc and that takes time... but life time is not something these games have so what is the point? How can a retailer invest in this, another time, and "convince" clients its different now?
The short answer is: They can't.
The longer answer is that it works both ways. In most cases, games are only short lived because they don't sustain the sales to keep them going. That's partly from stores being unwilling to justify the investment and shelf space, and partly from gamers being unwilling to venture outside the box for fear that the game won't last.
And so the lion's share of the market remains with GW, as the 'safe' choice.
2026/02/26 23:29:09
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
LunarSol wrote: I had to block that channel. They have some super insightful, but the overall channel sustains itself on rage bait. Super interesting stuff, but its not constructive and if you follow it for a while it turns into an exercise in "what's wrong with everything".
I blocked them as well, any store that runs a Patreon makes me automatically wary of any business insights they have. However my main complaint with them from the few videos of theirs that I have watched, is that they were full of false or misleading information put out as facts when it came to discussion around any game that wasn't 40k and the obvious low effort rage bait.
If their entire "schtick" is that they are hobby professionals giving information from the business owner's point of view, and want to get paid Patreon money to do it, I feel like they have an obligation to do the smallest amount of research into what they discuss so that they aren't misleading people or spreading false information.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2026/02/26 23:45:00
2026/02/26 23:35:31
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
The idea of games lasting "forever" hasn't really been a thing in ages. When there was no real competition it was one thing, but now every product has a shelf life with even GW needing to replace stuff with modern resculpts as competing studios attempt to surpass them.
I play a lot of these games and honestly, keeping up with them takes up far less time and money than a single 40k army. Trying them out and spending time on the ones I really like has been super entertaining. Maybe MCP will die next year. Doesn't change the fact that it's been my most played game of the last 6+ years of gaming. I've played substantially more games of Shatterpoint than Legion and invested far less. I was looking at what it would take to modernize my Rebels and its about half of what I have in Shatterpoint stuff just for a single force.
Retail hasn't been able to just leave product on the shelf and hope someone buys it someday since online shopping became a thing. You have to put new things on the shelf, drop the stuff that doesn't sell and discount it to fund new product. Trying to sell people on the "forever" can really only work with 40k, and even then its something of a fantasy that people get burned on in about 3 years at most these days.
2026/02/27 01:28:40
Subject: Re:SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
NAVARRO wrote: Well I just cannot imagine the frustrating process of these short lived war-games that retailers have to endure... This is not like a card game you can dump on the table after you buy them. You have to buy, assemble, paint etc and that takes time... but life time is not something these games have so what is the point? How can a retailer invest in this, another time, and "convince" clients its different now?
The short answer is: They can't.
The longer answer is that it works both ways. In most cases, games are only short lived because they don't sustain the sales to keep them going. That's partly from stores being unwilling to justify the investment and shelf space, and partly from gamers being unwilling to venture outside the box for fear that the game won't last.
And so the lion's share of the market remains with GW, as the 'safe' choice.
this is actually a thing I notice in Aus, half the games these content creators really like are dead or didn’t even start here for so many reasons. Sometimes it’s stores, sometimes they can’t even get enough for demand and it fizzle out. This is sort of big enough to be big news in the wider hobby, but small enough to be a difficult product to produce.
I also think so many stores really use players as advertising, and running games. I guess I’m also lucky our local store is happy when we playing anything and he will join in if he can.
2026/02/27 09:39:18
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
LunarSol wrote: I had to block that channel. They have some super insightful, but the overall channel sustains itself on rage bait. Super interesting stuff, but its not constructive and if you follow it for a while it turns into an exercise in "what's wrong with everything".
The rage/click bait titles started as a joke (as well as mentioning Trench Crusade out of context just because it helped the algorithm). Relatively tongue in cheek and I used to watch regularly because there's some good insight from the LFGS side of the industry. They got very tiresome though and it did just seem to evolve into crapping on everything and making a lot of wider judgements (not without reason of course) just based on what was happening with their local scene (e.g. Legion was apparently 'dead' not that long ago, a discussion that came off the back of the announcement of a pretty huge range refresh). They're friends with Ash at GMG and the regular discussions over there felt much more constructive when he had them on.
Back closer to the topic though; it does make even more sense that they started packing some of the Shatterpoint terrain in with Legion stuff. The scale is close enough on the buildings that it makes no real difference and a lot of folks were using SP kits anyway.
2026/02/27 10:35:18
Subject: Re:SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
A Star Wars game Legions Imperialis style would be just amazing (infantry + small vehicles + big vehicles + aircraft all together), but we will never see such a thing.
2026/02/27 11:02:30
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
LunarSol wrote: I had to block that channel. They have some super insightful, but the overall channel sustains itself on rage bait. Super interesting stuff, but its not constructive and if you follow it for a while it turns into an exercise in "what's wrong with everything".
They honestly seem like they'd be happier working for GW again. Every non-GW video they come across as deeply resentful for having to stock non-40k products and offended that other companies have the audacity for trying to make their own wargames.
Their earlier videos had some interesting insights, but it feels like the well has mostly been drained on that front and it's just reacting to the latest faux-drama.
Seeing them do the usual Warhammer influencer thing of declaring TOW as dead on arrival and slowly shifting to "we've always loved Fantasy! AoS bad amirite?" has been funny if predictable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2026/02/27 11:06:06
2026/02/27 11:30:17
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I cant remember what video, but they said you shouldnt let pople play dead games or games you dont carry in the store because they are wasting space.
I completely agree. Shops are at constant risk of going under. Unless you have a business model that can actually pay for people playing games, and wargames need a lot of space and storage, they are to support your current product offering.
The best online source of game shop insight is I think Gary Ray on facebook (and sometimes blog), who wrote Friendly Local Game Store: A Five-Year Path to a Middle-Class Income.
2026/02/27 14:22:59
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: Wonder if they'd launch a smaller skirmish variant for Legion at some point instead now.
There's been a skirmish level variant for Legion around for years (Spec Ops). It's just print and play and is very much a side project but it gets updated and new teams added every now and again. Very much Legion's answer to Kill Team. This year we're also getting Legion's version of Apocalypse level games at the other end of the spectrum.
Ah, that makes sense; wasn't aware of it (clearly) but will look into it as it sounds like an interesting variant — cheers!
2026/02/28 00:45:09
Subject: Re:SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
NAVARRO wrote: Well I just cannot imagine the frustrating process of these short lived war-games that retailers have to endure... This is not like a card game you can dump on the table after you buy them. You have to buy, assemble, paint etc and that takes time... but life time is not something these games have so what is the point? How can a retailer invest in this, another time, and "convince" clients its different now?
And Star Wars has plenty of games that attract boardgamers who don't want to paint. FFG released Star Wars: Unlimited in 2024. (SW prepainted miniatures ended in 2010.)
As for Marvel, HeroClix is still around. (Sold to NECA even though I'm seeing it also on the WizKids website?)
CoolStuffInc has a massive sale on HC : https://www.coolstuffinc.com/page/3665
ced1106 wrote: As for Marvel, HeroClix is still around. (Sold to NECA even though I'm seeing it also on the WizKids website?)
NECA has owned WizKids since 2009.
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2026/02/28 15:22:39
Subject: Re:SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
NAVARRO wrote: Well I just cannot imagine the frustrating process of these short lived war-games that retailers have to endure... This is not like a card game you can dump on the table after you buy them. You have to buy, assemble, paint etc and that takes time... but life time is not something these games have so what is the point? How can a retailer invest in this, another time, and "convince" clients its different now?
The short answer is: They can't.
The longer answer is that it works both ways. In most cases, games are only short lived because they don't sustain the sales to keep them going. That's partly from stores being unwilling to justify the investment and shelf space, and partly from gamers being unwilling to venture outside the box for fear that the game won't last.
And so the lion's share of the market remains with GW, as the 'safe' choice.
And of course, GW (and any other company who'd manage to reach their size) absolutely look upon MTG and other such card games with covetous eyes. Once you have a captive audience, why not milk them some more by rotating out their models for a couple years? Looking at you, Kill Team.
Meanwhile smaller games, as you noted, fight for their lives every moment just to keep their heads above water.
The first come first serve advantage feels pretty real. Same reason why nothing seems able to shake Discord, I suppose, no matter how many controversies it goes through.
NAVARRO wrote: Well I just cannot imagine the frustrating process of these short lived war-games that retailers have to endure... This is not like a card game you can dump on the table after you buy them. You have to buy, assemble, paint etc and that takes time... but life time is not something these games have so what is the point? How can a retailer invest in this, another time, and "convince" clients its different now?
The short answer is: They can't.
The longer answer is that it works both ways. In most cases, games are only short lived because they don't sustain the sales to keep them going. That's partly from stores being unwilling to justify the investment and shelf space, and partly from gamers being unwilling to venture outside the box for fear that the game won't last.
And so the lion's share of the market remains with GW, as the 'safe' choice.
And of course, GW (and any other company who'd manage to reach their size) absolutely look upon MTG and other such card games with covetous eyes. Once you have a captive audience, why not milk them some more by rotating out their models for a couple years? Looking at you, Kill Team.
Meanwhile smaller games, as you noted, fight for their lives every moment just to keep their heads above water.
The first come first serve advantage feels pretty real. Same reason why nothing seems able to shake Discord, I suppose, no matter how many controversies it goes through.
people greatly underestimate how good it is to be able to go in discord of a store and be guaranteed a game of 40k.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2026/02/28 23:28:43
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2026/02/28 23:51:06
Subject: Re:SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
SU-152 wrote:A Star Wars game Legions Imperialis style would be just amazing (infantry + small vehicles + big vehicles + aircraft all together), but we will never see such a thing.
especially if it was made at the same rough scale as X-wing, letting you port over the minis from that to use as the aircraft side. imagine being able to land a U-wing to drop off a squad of rebel infantry onto a flank, while an X-wing zooms overhead providing cover fire.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2026/02/28 23:53:19
2026/03/01 00:00:04
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
LunarSol wrote: The idea of games lasting "forever" hasn't really been a thing in ages. When there was no real competition it was one thing, but now every product has a shelf life with even GW needing to replace stuff with modern resculpts as competing studios attempt to surpass them.
We could even expand this to differences between editions. 2nd Edition and 3rd Edition 40K were radically different games. 4th, 5th and 6th built upon 3rd. 8th onwards is again a very different game. Same branding, quite different incarnations.
Same for Necromunda really. Not gonna split hairs over whether the current version has had detectable editions. But between the original and the modern? The campaign systems are pretty different and so are a different experience.
WHFB and ToW don’t play the same. My preferred hammerblow and break you in one just…doesn’t really work in the same way. So despite the underlying “how to move stuff, how to kill stuff” rules remain pretty stable? How you actually play the game isn’t the same.
3rd Ed Heresy is again a pretty different game to 1st and 2nd. Much of the underlying isn’t radically different. But with Tactical Statuses changing what a good weapon looks like, and tanks moving beyond “one Lascannon, one kill” toughness? Again, how you successfully play the game is pretty different.
The big advantage for GW games is, whilst not universal? If you’ve a collection of models that was an army 25 years ago? You can most likely still use them today.
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LunarSol wrote: The idea of games lasting "forever" hasn't really been a thing in ages. When there was no real competition it was one thing, but now every product has a shelf life with even GW needing to replace stuff with modern resculpts as competing studios attempt to surpass them.
We could even expand this to differences between editions. 2nd Edition and 3rd Edition 40K were radically different games. 4th, 5th and 6th built upon 3rd. 8th onwards is again a very different game. Same branding, quite different incarnations.
Same for Necromunda really. Not gonna split hairs over whether the current version has had detectable editions. But between the original and the modern? The campaign systems are pretty different and so are a different experience.
WHFB and ToW don’t play the same. My preferred hammerblow and break you in one just…doesn’t really work in the same way. So despite the underlying “how to move stuff, how to kill stuff” rules remain pretty stable? How you actually play the game isn’t the same.
3rd Ed Heresy is again a pretty different game to 1st and 2nd. Much of the underlying isn’t radically different. But with Tactical Statuses changing what a good weapon looks like, and tanks moving beyond “one Lascannon, one kill” toughness? Again, how you successfully play the game is pretty different.
The big advantage for GW games is, whilst not universal? If you’ve a collection of models that was an army 25 years ago? You can most likely still use them today.
Killteam has killed a bunch of teams, I don’t think I have any teams now left other than my eldar which was more luck since I didn’t get for kill team, and tau but for the same reason.
GW is its own special silly thing.
2026/03/01 13:19:39
Subject: Re:SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
SU-152 wrote:A Star Wars game Legions Imperialis style would be just amazing (infantry + small vehicles + big vehicles + aircraft all together), but we will never see such a thing.
especially if it was made at the same rough scale as X-wing, letting you port over the minis from that to use as the aircraft side. imagine being able to land a U-wing to drop off a squad of rebel infantry onto a flank, while an X-wing zooms overhead providing cover fire.
I much prefer to imagine Imperial air defenses preventing such a scenario, thanks.
But you just know the models would land a little outside X-Wing scale, and more annoyingly come with differently sized bases that have a specific rules function as well.
2026/03/02 11:05:42
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
Would that scale really have much reach though? The big moments in SW would be 'character' (skirmish 28mm) scale and space battles. The ground war section in Empire was cool, but very assymetrical and far less of a focus than space battles or character actions.
hello
2026/03/02 15:01:35
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
SU-152 wrote:A Star Wars game Legions Imperialis style would be just amazing (infantry + small vehicles + big vehicles + aircraft all together), but we will never see such a thing.
especially if it was made at the same rough scale as X-wing, letting you port over the minis from that to use as the aircraft side. imagine being able to land a U-wing to drop off a squad of rebel infantry onto a flank, while an X-wing zooms overhead providing cover fire.
I much prefer to imagine Imperial air defenses preventing such a scenario, thanks.
But you just know the models would land a little outside X-Wing scale, and more annoyingly come with differently sized bases that have a specific rules function as well.
I had hoped that X-Wing would expand to include a Rogue Squadron N64 style mode that included AT-ATs and Snow Speeders and other ground vehicles.
2026/03/02 15:35:58
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
Daba wrote: Would that scale really have much reach though? The big moments in SW would be 'character' (skirmish 28mm) scale and space battles. The ground war section in Empire was cool, but very assymetrical and far less of a focus than space battles or character actions.
Yes and it is as limitation of the setting that a lot of the games come up against. Its TV soap opera stuff in terms of scale. Now make a wargame...
2026/03/02 16:20:47
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
Someone mentioned something in the thread about how games being expected to last forever being a relatively new thing. Id say it is partly due to price of models, but also how games are consumed.
I think there is a disconnect between older gamers here(Like Gen X and Boomers) and younger gens because something i noticed is it is drastically different from how we play games or look at them. quite a bit of older gamers have their gaming group, they play in garages or sheds, and with one another.
alot of younger players play in shop. we consider gaming a more "Go out and meet people" kinda activity. Going to tournaments and conventions and meeting people. meeting new people who play things differently from us.
And if a game dies......we cant do that anymore. Conquest around me died and im having two armies Im still painting for the hope it grows again. yeah i have my friends, but they have their lists and built them so there is nothing new.
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2026/03/02 20:27:34
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
Isn't this good news? Remember, the original plan was to squat Legion. The lead dev hates it. But it outsold Shatterpoint by so much they just couldn't spin that to shareholders in any sane way.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I cant remember what video, but they said you shouldnt let pople play dead games or games you dont carry in the store because they are wasting space.
Yeah, their position as people who feed their families by running a game store is that you are weird if you think owning any random wargaming miniatures makes you entitled to use the premises and terrain of any game store anywhere in the world, for free, forever. And they challenge you to name any other field in which this is true. The audacity of those guys.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2026/03/02 21:05:23
Subject: Re:SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
lord_blackfang wrote: Isn't this good news? Remember, the original plan was to squat Legion. The lead dev hates it. But it outsold Shatterpoint by so much they just couldn't spin that to shareholders in any sane way.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I cant remember what video, but they said you shouldnt let pople play dead games or games you dont carry in the store because they are wasting space.
Yeah, their position as people who feed their families by running a game store is that you are weird if you think owning any random wargaming miniatures makes you entitled to use the premises and terrain of any game store anywhere in the world, for free, forever. And they challenge you to name any other field in which this is true. The audacity of those guys.
1: there was never a plan to tank legion, idk wjere people got thst idea.
2: game stores exist as oke of tge few third spaces left., a place to go, hang out with friends and play games. And they are more important, especially in the US, to have due to not many people owning a home.
So yes, I do think people should be allowed to be in a space, tgst they are not actively harming, without the expectation of spending or making money for a store.
And before you say "well they are loosing table space" no....no they are not, for a vast majority of time most tables in game stores are not used, and if there is an event, even games in tge store are pushed to the side.
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2026/03/02 21:47:48
Subject: SW Shatterpoint goes the way of X Wing and Armada.
hotsauceman1 wrote: 2: game stores exist as oke of tge few third spaces left., a place to go, hang out with friends and play games. And they are more important, especially in the US, to have due to not many people owning a home.
So yes, I do think people should be allowed to be in a space, tgst they are not actively harming, without the expectation of spending or making money for a store.
And before you say "well they are loosing table space" no....no they are not, for a vast majority of time most tables in game stores are not used, and if there is an event, even games in tge store are pushed to the side.
I suppose there's two possible reactions to that sort of video. I realized I was being inconsiderate to the very real financial needs of the proprietor... you doubled down on your entitlement, to the point you're so livid you can't type
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
5000pts 
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3000pts
As a subniche community,we've been a catty bunch since the old bbs days.
