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60 miniatures all in all? That's 20% more than Saturnine so we might be looking at a £250 price tag. Or are we holding out hope for a push-fit discount?

I really can't wrap my head around the assembly of the boyz and grots. Some look almost identical except the feet?

 Nazrak wrote:
Why do they keep saying "frame"? It's a sprue lads.

In manufacturing, frame is the proper name. The sprue is just the channel for the plastic to enter the mould.

Somewhere along the line, modellers misapplied the word and it stuck.

 Ohman wrote:
I really can't wrap my head around the assembly of the boyz and grots. Some look almost identical except the feet?

You get effectively 2x of the sprue containing 1 Nob, 9 Boyz and 5 Gretchin. They look like the back and legs are mostly one piece with the front attaching on. Some of those fronts are interchangeable and some include arms as part of the bit. Heads seem to be separate. The result is 30 models made up of 15 models duplicated, but with enough swappable details that they pass as fairly unique looking until you start looking for the parts that repeat.

Not bad variety for push fit.

Swappable legs has been a thing for GW since at least the beastmen from Blackstone Fortress. An easy way to double the 'poses' available on limited sprue space.

This was all very.. hmm...

I think whats bothering me, is that I already have all this, in consistent armour, so all this stuff just doesn't 'fit' with how I see Marines now. Take the Eradicators - I was really hyped for them but.. theres that guy, in the MK7... and he just... stands out like a sore thumb.

The Ancient bugs me as well - why not stick him in Gravis so he's something different? That pairs with the Eradicators then, and it can be your 'we're only selling this in the box' model like the soon to be legends Biologis...

All in all... 2nd edition was my edition, and if this was meant to hype me through nostalgia, it didn't, and it just feels like lacking ideas. Don't get me wrong, I'm not someone who things Marines need massive of new things but... they need to realise that its okay to sell me the old rope. Just sell me some push fit intercessors in normal armour.

On top of that, it looks like the Warboss and the Captain share a tool, so I guess thats the start to the next Hachette partworks set.

The Orks... I really want to like them. The bigboss is really nice, as is the bannernob, but the boys and Gretchin are repetitive.


Oh and the bit that really bugs me, for some reason? The rulebook being a flimsy paperback. It feels like there printing it knowing it'll be replaced within a year, or maybe they didnt have enough card left...

So... Marine side looks mostly nice, aside from the overuse of tactical rocks. Gravis armour remains pointless, and they've somehow taken the previous landspeeder design and made it even uglier.


I'm really not sure what to make of the Orks. Some of the individual models look great... Some have weird faces, odd proportions and/or awkward poses. They'll probably look fine on the table, but the pics just don't sell them, for me.

I hate the tiny ears on the grots. And the Dakkarig is a fantastic example of adding something just for the sake of something new. A deffdredd with a big gun would have been a better (and less ugly) choice.

Overall, this is really underwhelming compared to the previous starter set.

I wonder what's happening with Runtherds?

 insaniak wrote:
And the Dakkarig is a fantastic example of adding something just for the sake of something new. A deffdredd with a big gun would have been a better (and less ugly) choice.

Or moving the FW Mega-dread to plastic.

I'll mirror the other thoughts of being very whelmed. I don't like modern GW rules, so I really only care about the models.

The Marine squad is fine, but any call of it including old armor marks is a laugh at best. You want primaris-sized marines in old armor, you need the Red Corsairs box. The captain and librarian are good sculpts, solid glow-ups. I'll probably grab some at some point. Not another Ancient, even though it's probably the best one yet. Eradicators, yuck. I hate the little blast shields like the Inceptor squad. The speeder looks very front heavy. Better than the primaris one, but a step down from the firstborn one.

Orks are a big old wet fart in my opinion, with two exceptions: the Bigboss and Wartrakk. Boys and other bosses suffer from big rectangualr slabby bodies and tiny stumpy legs. Absolutely misproportioned, even for a fictional alien race. Someone get Brian Nelson back on the phone. The Dakkarig is funny looking in an orky way, so they get credit for that at least. I am glad they're exploring various sizes of Ork boss-level characters. Grots, ears. Yes, that argument again.

Hard pass.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Ohman wrote:
I really can't wrap my head around the assembly of the boyz and grots. Some look almost identical except the feet?

You get effectively 2x of the sprue containing 1 Nob, 9 Boyz and 5 Gretchin. They look like the back and legs are mostly one piece with the front attaching on. Some of those fronts are interchangeable and some include arms as part of the bit. Heads seem to be separate. The result is 30 models made up of 15 models duplicated, but with enough swappable details that they pass as fairly unique looking until you start looking for the parts that repeat.

Most of the leg (not that Orks have much leg to begin with) seems to be on the front, as do all of the arms/weapons. The dorsal halves have some details that peek out into the front silhouette, such as Squigs and ammo pouches. As you say, only some swaps will work -- for example, the cosmetic equipment piece on the back seems to include the back half of the shoulder plate, meaning that some of those back cosmetic pieces will only pair with the front pieces that also have half of a shoulder plate.

The Blackstone Fortress Beastmen are indeed a good comparison, as are the original Deathwatch Overkill Cultists iirc. Something like this is how I imagine it broken up.
[spoiler]

I’m digging the girthier Boyz and other Orks. It helps reinforce their inhuman, being possessed of little if any body fat,moustache raw, rippling muscle. And lots of it.

I quite liked pretty much all of it - the Ork half was definitely the stronger part though.

Seems a little odd that every squad was a bit under-equipped, almost as though there are stand alone multi part kits coming out just around the corner with extra wargear (1 grenade launcher and a chainsword when it could have been 2 plus a power weapon in the intercessors, just 1 plasma pistol in the vanvets, no big shootas or klaws for the boyz).

New Captain would look really good if you can find a spare hammer and jump pack.

I bet every hefty axe/cleaver will be getting the new cleave rule in 11th just like every spear gets lance.

Combi weapons getting a bit of distinction is music to my ears, hopefully it is applied to all factions as their codex is updated.

The new leader character/support character distinction is going to be great for factions like Orks who have a fair number of minor characters. Wouldn't be surprised to see new combos like 10 Snagga Boyz + Beastboss + Painboss in a Trukk popping up which would be a nice bit of extra variety.

I'm wondering if the Eradicators are going to have 1 datasheet or 2 when the new Marine codex comes out. Would be pretty cool to be able to mix and match their guns a bit.

I just wanted to add - price is going to be a deciding factor for me on this.

It doesn't feel as premium as leviathan...£160 is going to be my limit..Anything higher and I'll pass

Comparing these two images Armageddon feels like it has less/smaller models inside than Leviathan:




Obviously its not going to be cheaper but it might actually not be that much more expensive due to that (but it likely will be)

Just a thought here: Valrak said a while back that Samael was going to get an updated model. I assumed it was going to be him on the jetbike. However, with the Landspeeder coming back, could it be Samael in Landspeeder?

After seeing the landspeeder, and the marines having not Mark X armor, I have a feeling 12th will somehow combine regular and Assault Intercessors into Tactical Intercessors.

Similar to Tacticals in HH, and more expensive, but look in the bright side: they're mono pose, so you don't have to worry about making them different... oh, and you always loose every Warhammer brand game unless you call them as Tactical Marines every time(we're also packaging them as such).

Seeing the contents all together, it looks really skewed in the Marines' favour... Contrast the 2nd ed starter with two squads of tactical marines against a vast sea of boys and grots...

At the very least, there are just too many Marine characters in this box.

 LunarSol wrote:
Super happy with these Orks for sure. I've got a lot of rebasing ahead though...

What base sizes have changed?

The boltguns look redesigned slightly to look more like the old school bolter. They've reduced that revolver looking part on the top that they introduced with the Primaries style

 Ohman wrote:
60 miniatures all in all? That's 20% more than Saturnine so we might be looking at a £250 price tag. Or are we holding out hope for a push-fit discount?

I did a quick count of how much plastic is in the box to compare against Leviathan and Saturnine.
All sprues have those center fill rods where the plastic is pushed in with a small sprue having one of those and bigger sprues just have 2 or 4 of them. So you can count any sprue as a multiple of a small sprue with one fill rod. (Exception are the even smaller character sprues but none of those are in any of the three compared boxsets.

Armageddon has a total of 16 small sprues worth of plastic for the Space Marines and 19 small sprues worth of plastic for the Orks for a total of 35 small sprues of plastic.
Leviathan, which was 200€, has a total of 16 small sprues worth of plastic for the Space Marines and 18 small sprues worth of plastic for the Tyranids for a total of 34 small sprues of plastic so nearly the same.
Saturnine which is 252€ has 54 small sprues worth of plastic split between 25 for the Salamanders and 29 for the Iron Warriors so quite a bit more. But Saturnine was also full kits instead of push fit so less models per sprue, this number includes the upgrade sprues for the tactical marines and HH on average gives more plastic than 40k.

In the end I expect around 215€ to 225€ for Armageddon.

Are the marines also visually more squat? Are they reverting to classic splayed leg, squatting marine poses rather the more upright, tall and stretched of earlier iterations. May just be image compression but those blood angels in the vs pic with the orks all look dense and squat.

Definitely not a fan of the new ork proportions. The older more hunched look is much better IMO.

The marines are fine, I'll probably buy them from someone splitting the box. The heavy bolter gravis marines will definitely have a place in my gravis heavy army.

I find I don't mind those new boyz. Better than the Beastsnaggas. Too big, of course, but not bad as sculpts. Characters are all pretty fun and so are the grots. I don't like the Ork Mech thing, doesn't "fit" with my idea of Orky Tech, but the Wartrakk is great.

Marines are fine I suppose. I don't see that they're massively different to any other marines released since 8th. I don't think much of the characters and everyone is way too big, but they're nice enough.

I won't buy the set though. It'll be too expensive for me to put up with the downsides and I don't really fancy owning any primaris at all.

One thing I've noticed about this box is that in the Marine half, there's NO PRIMARIS LIEUTENANT! For the last three editions, we've gotten at least one in the launch box (we got two in Dark Imperium). What is this world coming to? How will we cope without getting another Primaris Lieutenant?

Valrak's source were exact then, months ahead of time.

I still bemoan the loss of whimsy in orks, seen today most obviously in the gretchin. Sculpts are mostly very good tho, and none look like AI generated visual mess like Wazdakka does. Only quibble is that some of them seem to have no neck, their cheeks juts kinda continue into the shoulders (seen best on the Mek pilot)

Big Mek is sitting down on the Waaagh Walker.

I really don’t know if I prefer that to him being stood up. It does give it a somewhat more industrial look. But is sitting down for a battle Orky?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Big Mek is sitting down on the Waaagh Walker.

I really don’t know if I prefer that to him being stood up. It does give it a somewhat more industrial look. But is sitting down for a battle Orky?

Bikers do it all the time. And deff-koptas.

That’s because they go fasta.

But for a walky platform I’m just really torn. Then again, Meks are a little odd.

 LunarSol wrote:
You get effectively 2x of the sprue containing 1 Nob, 9 Boyz and 5 Gretchin. They look like the back and legs are mostly one piece with the front attaching on. Some of those fronts are interchangeable and some include arms as part of the bit. Heads seem to be separate. The result is 30 models made up of 15 models duplicated, but with enough swappable details that they pass as fairly unique looking until you start looking for the parts that repeat.

Alright I see, I wasn't thinking they'd be split that way.

Pilot Pirx wrote:
Most of the leg (not that Orks have much leg to begin with) seems to be on the front, as do all of the arms/weapons. The dorsal halves have some details that peek out into the front silhouette, such as Squigs and ammo pouches. As you say, only some swaps will work -- for example, the cosmetic equipment piece on the back seems to include the back half of the shoulder plate, meaning that some of those back cosmetic pieces will only pair with the front pieces that also have half of a shoulder plate.

The Blackstone Fortress Beastmen are indeed a good comparison, as are the original Deathwatch Overkill Cultists iirc. Something like this is how I imagine it broken up.

Excellent visualization, thank you!

 Matrindur wrote:


I did a quick count of how much plastic is in the box to compare against Leviathan and Saturnine.
All sprues have those center fill rods where the plastic is pushed in with a small sprue having one of those and bigger sprues just have 2 or 4 of them. So you can count any sprue as a multiple of a small sprue with one fill rod. (Exception are the even smaller character sprues but none of those are in any of the three compared boxsets.

Armageddon has a total of 16 small sprues worth of plastic for the Space Marines and 19 small sprues worth of plastic for the Orks for a total of 35 small sprues of plastic.
Leviathan, which was 200€, has a total of 16 small sprues worth of plastic for the Space Marines and 18 small sprues worth of plastic for the Tyranids for a total of 34 small sprues of plastic so nearly the same.
Saturnine which is 252€ has 54 small sprues worth of plastic split between 25 for the Salamanders and 29 for the Iron Warriors so quite a bit more. But Saturnine was also full kits instead of push fit so less models per sprue, this number includes the upgrade sprues for the tactical marines and HH on average gives more plastic than 40k.

In the end I expect around 215€ to 225€ for Armageddon.

Counting sprues is probably the way go so perhaps not as bad I thought.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Big Mek is sitting down on the Waaagh Walker.

I really don’t know if I prefer that to him being stood up. It does give it a somewhat more industrial look. But is sitting down for a battle Orky?

Bikers do it all the time. And deff-koptas.

True. Sitting down to not get flung off a shaky vehicle seems like the kind of innovation that proves to other orks that the big mek is way smarter than them

The model is really nice in general, as well as the skorcha. Too bad most of the box is a waste for me, I'll have to wait until they are available separately.