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After that FAQ...thats it.

I'm not whining, I'm not throwing a fit.

Anyone who comes to the Baltimore Grand tournement can feel free to find me at the Tournement. I'll be taking up a collection of Dark Angel Codeii that anyone wants to return.

Once the tournement is over, if a GW rep is there that is willing to take them off of my hands I will turn them all over. If not, I will mail them once I get home to GW home office. I will be doing this in the most adult way possible, no complaining, no yelling, if asked "Why" I'll simply give them a reply such as "This codex and fans of it feel that the Space Marine Codex makes it unuseable in any form of competetive play. I've collected these codeii from players at a competition, The Baltimore GT, the competetive players there find no use whatsoever for this book. Thank you for taking them off of our hands."

I will handle this in the most professional way possible. Dark Angels have been my Chapter since 2nd Edition and I've now given up on them. The models are fabulous but every time I open my codex I feel as if I'm being slapped in the face by a power armoured gauntlet. I'm a Tournement player and the best armies we can come up with in our codex are a joke compared to the wondrous plethera of options availiable in the new Marine dex.

I am open to suggestions on this. I will be taking a list of names, digital photo's logging this endeavor (most likely pics of the assorted Codeii) and I will post the entire process here. If noone wants to participate, my codex will find its lonely self being mailed to GW. This is simply an attempt at making a bit louder of a statement to the company that doesnt seem to want to hear their customer base.

Likely as not, this will result in nothing, but at least we tried. The alternative is to keep bellyaching about the Dark Angel Deficit.

Look me up at the Baltimore GT. My name is Shane McRoberts, member of the Wrecking Crew...We'll be easy to find as there are several of us. I'm playing in the 'Ard Boyz (hopefully) and the GT over the weekend. Drop your codex off with me and rest assured it will find its way back to the company that spawned this abomination. Along with a record of the process to be posted here in the future.

If you feel I'm overreacting, by all means keep your book! More power to you for being happy with it. There are many competetive fans of the Dark Angels and Successors however that feel as strongly as I do. Hopefully you will benefit in the future as well.

Here Here

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695042 is a thread I started awhile ago. The codex return date is 2 weeks after the codex Space Marines comes out.

So the weekend of the 24th. Do you have an address other than jj's address from the White Dwarf that they think should mail it to?

The plural of Codex is Codices....

I will watch that thread (originally I got the Idea from B&C, kudo's for you guys).

I'll continue this process and coordinate with you guys. so as to make a larger statement.

fitzeh wrote:The plural of Codex is Codices....

Thank you for contributing to the discussion.

*cough* well it's not so much B&C's idea as it is my idea. The mods gave me a strong warning to make sure it's just my idea and not all of B&C's.... though we'll see what happens with this latest "faq" AKA fix all questions your self.

I wonder if an actual "personality" will be at the Tournement.

Would be amusing if I could return the codEII to JJ himself.

Hey, if you're gonna engage in a smart alec type stunt, at least take the time to spell it properly

Look, although I'm not a competitive player, I understand your frustration that you can't use your favourite army to win, I just don't see what handing over your Codex is going to acheive.

It'll make you feel better for a few days, and you'll get some Kudos on the some internetz forumz for stickig it to "THE MAN". But, you'll be pissed next time you wanna kick back with a brew and some buddies and you don't have a codex....

What a whiner!!! Suck it up Shane! Would you be happy if GW just said, "Shane's so cool that he gets to automatically win a GT with his Dark Angels"!??!

Just remember, an army that runs around in poofy robes has a lot going for it!

More seriously, that FAQ is pretty craptacular. Guess GW's really keen to have a lot of Codex: Green-painted Marines armies showing up on the tabletop.

Vale,

JohnS

heres a thought, since it sounds like you like the SM codex more... just USE that friggin codex with your DA. i dont see why that would be a problem at all.
and is the DA codex really THAT bad? ive never read it

Thats fine that you guys think that this is overreacting.

...there's MANY DA fans out there that disagree with you.

....Back to topic.

The reason for my DA and BA codex is not just DA, but all chapters, heck all of 40k.

A standardized wargear list is the issue. Who wants to remember 5 different versions of the same weapon/wargear again?

For DA those stormshields give them a 4+ inv save in cc, but for the new codex it's a flat 3+. Does anyone playing vs marines want to remember these differences? And that's just one example, there are many many more.

Standardized wargear, poor FAQ support, poor product planning releases, etc etc etc. What ever the reason this is a good time to send a message.

KingCracker wrote:heres a thought, since it sounds like you like the SM codex more... just USE that friggin codex with your DA. i dont see why that would be a problem at all.
and is the DA codex really THAT bad? ive never read it

That was the point about "Codex: Green Marines"... The problem there is that, believe it or not, some people really do like to play armies based on the fluff but, at the same time, don't like to feel like absolute chumps for sticking with "their" army.

But if you compare Codex: Dark Angels with Codex: Space Marines, I think it's fair to say, yes, it is that bad.

Vale,

JohnS

Deadshane1 wrote:Thats fine that you guys think that this is overreacting.

...there's MANY DA fans out there that disagree with you.

....Back to topic.

More than a few BA fans as well... They haven't had an insulting FAQ come out yet, but the night's still young, and GW's made it clear they'll have the same respect in that regard as the DA. Oh, did I forget to mention that I'm currently painting BA for the Baltimore GT?

Vale,

JohnS

Deadshane1 wrote:Thats fine that you guys think that this is overreacting.

...there's MANY DA fans out there that disagree with you.

....Back to topic.

I keep seeing this hate online, but I don't see it offline. Both the stores I frequented in Louisiana either had DA fans excited by the new Codex or uncaring there's a difference. I've seen 5 new DA armies pop up in the past 3 months using the DA Codex.

Vocal minorities indeed.

I appreciate your efforts in trying to at least make a statement about the DA dex. I think it will become painfully obvious when BA/DA/BT are consistantly crushed under the weight of the SM dex. 3++ MC'd TH Sallie terminators and deadly vets are just a start. But its also the death of the greenwing. So it might fix itself over a short period of time, but if not I'd like to meet the playtesters and see this magical DA list they've found to justify this direction of zero support or updates to the angels of death.

I'm going to mail my Dex back, with front cover ripped off to stop resell. The cover will be replaced with my letter and suggestions. I too have been playing DA's since the start.

Good luck to all with this endeavor.

This is an awesome idea. If a few hundred used DA Codices show up in Jervis' office, I'll bet he'll take notice.

Mind you, I doubt he'll DO anything, but who knows?

A few hundred - bah! a mere peccadillo.
JJ might take notice - but I doubt the BoD will (or the shareholders) until it reflects in a downturn in the share price.

Kudos for making an attempt that will probably end in nought, though. Even if they do take notice, and give the DA the other "standardised" gear that the other codex marines get, you'll probably be waiting 5-6 years for a new book, so you can play on a 'level' field. Too bad that by then, everyone else's definition of level will have changed.

more power to you! if I every played DA i would give you mine.

their secret shouldn't be that they aren't competative, i hope jervis takes notice, this game needs to be balanced.

Hey Shane, I never liked the DA codex, since it was made with no inspiration. The new SM codex is much better.

This is sad to see, I played Dark Angels a while back, and loved them (Though it WAS Second Edition >.&gt

And I am wondering if you couldnt just run them as Dark Angels, while using the new Marine 'Dex? I understand the fluff factor, or differing Lists, but I think it would work out. Though it is of course, your decision.

I am just dreading what they might do to my Wolves now, after seeing all this... But how could they ruin the Wolves?!

Count me in. One more paper weight for JJ.

You got mine Shane.

After thinking about things for awhile and not just about the DA but the other 40k races etc.... I have come to one conclusion.

The Dark Angels Codex release block was a waste of everyone's time.


In this era of space marine 40k, the Dark Angel release block could have been used for another race that needs an update and new models. Not just more and more marines.

Why do I say this? Because the DA could have been easily written into the new SM codex with 3 pages... if that and every issue I have today would be solved.

1 page for Azreal and Ezeekial, 1 page for Sammel, and 1 page for Belial
Each special character if chosen would effect the rest of the army. IE deathwing rules for Belial etc.

The plastic Dark Angel sprue alone is all we need for plastics, and metal figures for our special characters.

The SM codex was a wonderful opportunity to deal with ALL codex chapters and variants and eliminate the '5 different definitions of the same rule/wargear/etc.' issue they've generated. They could have put in a couple of special characters from DA, BA, Black Templars etc. that trigger special rules the way other special characters already do, and that would have been it. Example: An army with, say, Master of the Deathwing allows Terminators to be taken as troops choices. An army with Chaplain Lemartes allows you to take a death company, which is this. DONE! Likewise for Ba'al Predators, Ravenwing (or Whitescars), etc. MAYBE you leave Templars and Space Wolves out (maybe), but you have all the marines that are vaguely codex together in one book, and no one has to complain that their sub-codex got hit with the nerfhammer.

Instead, you have angry DA players who payed for their army AND an army book that is pretty lame, and are just going to use the new SM codex for their guys anyway. Blah.

EDIT: which is to say, Davidson is correct.

syr8766 wrote:The SM codex was a wonderful opportunity to deal with ALL codex chapters and variants and eliminate the '5 different definitions of the same rule/wargear/etc.' issue they've generated. They could have put in a couple of special characters from DA, BA, Black Templars etc. that trigger special rules the way other special characters already do, and that would have been it. Example: An army with, say, Master of the Deathwing allows Terminators to be taken as troops choices. An army with Chaplain Lemartes allows you to take a death company, which is this. DONE! Likewise for Ba'al Predators, Ravenwing (or Whitescars), etc. MAYBE you leave Templars and Space Wolves out (maybe), but you have all the marines that are vaguely codex together in one book, and no one has to complain that their sub-codex got hit with the nerfhammer.

Instead, you have angry DA players who payed for their army AND an army book that is pretty lame, and are just going to use the new SM codex for their guys anyway. Blah.

EDIT: which is to say, Davidson is correct.

While I agree with you in principal, I don't think it works from a business standpoint.

Here's my full opinion should you want to read it.

yakface wrote:

syr8766 wrote:The SM codex was a wonderful opportunity to deal with ALL codex chapters and variants and eliminate the '5 different definitions of the same rule/wargear/etc.' issue they've generated. They could have put in a couple of special characters from DA, BA, Black Templars etc. that trigger special rules the way other special characters already do, and that would have been it. Example: An army with, say, Master of the Deathwing allows Terminators to be taken as troops choices. An army with Chaplain Lemartes allows you to take a death company, which is this. DONE! Likewise for Ba'al Predators, Ravenwing (or Whitescars), etc. MAYBE you leave Templars and Space Wolves out (maybe), but you have all the marines that are vaguely codex together in one book, and no one has to complain that their sub-codex got hit with the nerfhammer.

Instead, you have angry DA players who payed for their army AND an army book that is pretty lame, and are just going to use the new SM codex for their guys anyway. Blah.

EDIT: which is to say, Davidson is correct.

While I agree with you in principal, I don't think it works from a business standpoint.

Here's my full opinion should you want to read it.

I'm sure you're right, Jon. Especially considering their particular business model, and the expectation GW has created in its fan/consumer base (i.e. that each army gets its own book/rules). Nevertheless, I can dream, right?

Personally I am mailing my book to Jervis via his Standard bearer address. With a sticky, "Thanks for nothing."

As per the idea that has been happening on the DA section of the Bolter and Chainsword forum.

Are you purposefully misspelling tournament?