Final Nail in the Coffin for Dark Angels (THE RETURN)

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**stonefox**

What is this thread.

Dark Angels are gay and wear dresses.

**Kid_Kyoto**

stonefox wrote:What is this thread.

Dark Angels are gay and wear dresses.

Oy! Some of my best friends are gay and wear dresses! You got a problem?

**temprus**

fitzeh wrote:The plural of Codex is Codices....

Unless you are GW, then it is Codexes.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Fearless Terminators?

Cheaper Land Raider Crusaders?

No limit on the number of Terminator Squads that can have a Dedicated Transport?

Just throwing a few thing out there. Dunno if they've been mentioned before.

Oh, and BS4 Scouts. Can't forget them.

And they still have Psychic Hoods without a range limit. Then again, being Fearless is not necessarily a plus in 5th Ed and Scouts are no longer Troops/Scoring.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Regardless. It's not the doom and gloom many make out where everything has been improved, is it?

**JohnHwangDD**

Shh.... Ignore the nerfed Scouts!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Oh, and don't forget, you can take your Landspeeder as part of a Bike Squadron, allowing for 6 Bikes, 2 Attack Bikes, 2 Landspeeders (armed as you wish) and still the option of taking 10 Assault Marines.

Do they still get Assault Cannon Drop Pods as well? This I'm not sure about, as I cannot remember 100%.

**ShumaGorath**

So you are encouraging people to return a non competitive codex because it was made somehow less competitive than it previously was because another codex came out that was seemingly better. I guess thats as good a reason as any to encourage people to return their necron codexes too. I mean, they weren't competitive before the space marine codex came out much like the dark angels so clearly this is the right course of action.

This thread doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The space marine codex didn't invalidate your crappy codex, your crappy codex has always been pretty terrible. If anything fifth edition gave it a tournament boost so its better than it was before.

**Frazzled**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:You used a very interesting term there, and one I agree with....Satisfying Games.

I avoid Tournaments because, in my experience, TFG is so much more common. I played in one Tournament, and that put me off for life. Why?

2 TFG and 1 NooB. None of the games were remotely satisfying. First up was a Gnoblar Horde. Sure, nothing I can't handle really, but not only was the guy pretty obnoxious, but he also cheated. I lost the game (though seeing my Manticore bottled off by Gnoblars was somewhat amusing!). 2nd Game? Dwarven Gunline. Yeah. That about sums it up. Totally, typical Dwarven Gunline including requisite lack of charisma from the opponent. Third game was Dwarves again, against a NooB, who I assume had been dragged there by her Dad. Predictably, I flattened her.

None of these guys left me satisfied. I was either rule lawyered and cheated, faced with a predictable race across the board, or not presented with any kind of a challenge. Now I am not saying this is typical of Tournaments, but polarised as it may be, it put me right off them.

With home play, I am able to pick and choose my opponents. This means I go for people with roughly the same skill and competence level as myself, if not outlook on the game.

But the biggest difference is that the players I know put the onus on their skills rather than the rules, where the impression I get is the opposite of Tournament players.

Ultimately, a game with the variety and scope of 40k can never be balanced. It's simply not possible with the freedom of choice presented in a Codex. Something is always going to be out of synch, this cannot be helped. The Dark Angels will get a new Codex soon enough, until then, either switch to the Marine Codex or get on with things.

It has been a rare tournament where I haven't had TFG for at least one game, enough so that tournament gaming is right under "tooth extraction" on the Frazzled scale of enjoyment. Usually it takes a year for me to forget and I re-enter tournaments, later deeply regretting the hours of my life I want back.

**Platuan4th**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:And how do you know that GW aren't planning an Errata for the book? Like I said earlier, anyone bothered to ask, or is that too much like pro active thought?

You mean like when we asked Phil Kelly at Games Day LA and he said they weren't going to Errata the Dark Angel and Blood Angel lists to include the new versions of gear? Because if you don't mean this, I hear someone had asked at Games Day UK, too.

**wash-away**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Never seen someone get 'pissed off' at a dice roll. Seen plenty of frustration and gnashing of teeth....

And please be wary of false impressions...Threads complaining about balance etc, x number of people attending a Tournament...GW putting on Tournaments. This is no evidence of a majority at all.

Complaint threads are ten a penny, and most consist of the same people spouting the same information ad infinitum. How many people post on Warseer, regularly? How many gamers are there, world wide? Start to look at it like that, and you get some perspective. I use Warseer because to my knowledge it's the largest community.

48,000 members, roughly a quarter of which are listed as active (though there is nothing to define what active qualifies as!). Now, of these, and from my own experience of that particular board, there are maybe 50 or 60 complainers that turn up in every. single. thread. And it's the same old arguments wheeled out time and again. And the same comments. From the same posters. With the same lack of will to see any other perspective.

Hardly conclusive evidence of a community up in arms, is it?

mad doc, seriously think about what your saying.

over the course of my lifetime i've spent at least $2k on 40k. i'm 18.

i have gripped about unbalanced lists, rules and other gaming related problems but thats with my local FLGS.

at my job they tell us that only 1 out of every 10 people will tell you that something is wrong. most people just ignore it and go on. if you want someting done right, give it to a dick and listen! you don't get an A+ math 1010 paper by having your mum read over it and say how lovely it is, you have some guy you pissed off in class slaughter a lamb over it with red ink.

a storm shield, 3+/3+ a storm shield -/4+ i mean, 3+/5+ wait no 5+/2+ no, ah damn it.

its all the same thing, it should be the same thing, i drive a car, i drive an elephant, nevermind lets call it your mum and say I ride it.

personally this isn't the biggest gripe i have with GW right now,(every army being clasified by an IC that every damn army has, Vulcan/Pedro) but if they can't even keeps the stats the same across the board, spell check their codex's, hell even give a damn about the gamer community this will be the start.

i wonder if there's people like you that defend wallmart who fire workers if they don't stay late with no pay, are antiunion, and encourage their full time employee's to get foodstamps. GW's a big boy they should know that microsoft word can catch over half the errors that they copy paste. and give the codex to a bunch of gamers and they'll catch that a vindicator is ordanance on one page and not on the other.