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There has been a lot of talk about recasting lately so I thought a poll might be a good idea... I didnt make this multiple choice as it would unbalance the results too much, so choose the single answer that closest matches your opinion, even if you agree with multiple answers. Assume the poll is talking about personal use for all the questions except for 'and ok to sell them' too.

and just a disclaimer: dakka in no way supports recasting in any form. This poll is simply a curiosity to discover people's personal opinions and recasting is quite clearly illegal, even for personal use in most countries of the world.

If significant additions or other modifications are done and you bought the original piece it's derivative work and fair game.

Recasting for personal use is questionable. If no other avenue (i.e. purchasing) exists and you own an original it's understandable but still probably illegal.

Recasting originals for purposes of resale is always stealing.

I think it's okay for OOP miniatures, and components that you can't acquire individually.

I have no problem with recasting just like I have no problem with people trying to homebrew their own favorite beer or spend time making a fake Ferrari.

I also think recasting for profit doesn't hurt GW's sales (since they're so few of them on Ebay in addition that recasting is generally a small scale and time intensive operation resulting in few recasted models on the market) but doing so isn't right in a similar sense that this forum makes money off of GW isn't right since I don't think Dakka pays GW royalties.

Recasting for profit and and trying to pass it off as official stuff is wrong though since thats deception at work.

Individual bits like meltaguns and the like are totally fair game for personal use. If you need A LOT of them you may want to consider buying new bits, or simply making your own (be careful though, you be denied access to some GW tournaments for making your own.). I would recommend buying ALL of your special bits like this anywhere but GW directly just to make sure they hear you, although I doubt they will.

OOP miniatures can be casted if for personal use, or because of simple lack of supply, which would be entailed by being OOP.

Say you have 5 squats and you really want to make an army, but after looking around for a month or so you find out that they are A.) unavailable entirely or B.) simply overpriced beyond rational means, this could apply for lack of money on your part, or simple moral outrage at the people trying to take advantage of you.

Regardless the fact I can't make recasts, I would still buy GW stuff, even if I could make them.
And besides, I think the amount of individuals possessing the professional equipment and knowhow, matching the quality of GW sprues and actually sell them,
is far to small to harm their profit.

I take the stance that its ok to copy it if there is no possible way to get is off of GW.

Other: OK for anything provided:

Not claiming it's your own work
Not selling it
Not damaging the market for the owner

Other;
I would say it is illegal, but so is speeding. If you are willing to do the crime, fine, just dont complain about the penalty if you get caught.

i support recasting.

The Green Git wrote:If significant additions or other modifications are done and you bought the original piece it's derivative work and fair game.

Hmmm, but how does fair use apply to models?

Anyways, I figure for things like meltaguns or Power Klaws it's probably alright, but dosn't seem very easy, and a recast is always subject to being quality inferior to the original.

Never done it but I suppose it would be okay to make weapons like meltaguns that you can't buy individually, not anymore than that though, re-casting a whole model is too obvious and a bit more than just a gun.

The only recasting I would support would be clear casts of Tau stealth suits, and stealth sniper teams. Even then, only if it's a one-for-one cast, and the original is present and painted.

I don't understand what the problem with re-casting for personal use is. It's no different that uploading your CDs to MP3s for you ipod. As long as you're not selling it (or giving away), what's the harm? Once you buy a figure, you own it. You can throw it out, melt it down, cut it up, paint it, paint it badly, how is making a mold of it any different?

I like recasting for the reason that some bitz are just hard (or even impossible) to come by without buying a whole squad, that probably needs it anyway. Tau Seeker misssiles for instance: you get 1 per vehicle, yet each vehicle can take 2. I'd recast them in a heartbeat so i can meet WYSIWG. I don't think it's that different from Greenstuffing your own version. As long as you arent reccasting an entire squad (or if you're digustingly ambitious, a sprue/vehicle) then GW isn't losing any Revenue, really.

I's a n00b, so what is recasting?

I like recasting for weapons melts etc. I also know GW hates it i hate it when folks try to sell them.
I have come across 2 recasts in my travels both in a GW store the First a guy had two Fire prisms and he didn't have the wobbles top and the gun wasn't aiming down. when the red shirt asked how the guy do it he repelled i just built it the red shirt asked if he could look the dude said sure as soon as he lifted the model he could feel it was resin right then and there he asked him to leave the store. A kid had a couple clear cast tau steath suit yeah he got asked to leave to.

Golden Eyed Scout wrote:I's a n00b, so what is recasting?

Just for the slow folks...

It is the act of taking an original, pouring some silicon rtv over it, removing the original and then filling the subsequent void with resin/metal to gain an exact (mostly) copy. Yes, I am intimately familiar with the procedures and processes.

Not a technically hard thing to do. A hard thing to do WELL, though. Not always cost-effective, and an unforgiving learning curve.

Some 'recasts' can be told by the existence of two sets of mold lines on the model (a good copy however, is indistinguishable from the original - casting flaws included). Warpage and bubbles* are said to be the 'tells' for resin re-casts. I disagree, they are the tells for BAD resin recasts, and very bad originals.

* Wait. FW have been recasting for years. This is their MO.

I think it is the only real cost effective way of making "destroyed" vehicle terrain features etc... I would not want to waste either lots of money, or one of my vehicles in order to create a burnt out/exploded land raider/rhino/etc, nor would I particularly want to use up precious bits on one.

Thus I might resort to casting for such things. I would also not be too concerned about casting smaller things such as special weapons and (home made) shoulder pads etc...

Anything that has been customised from the GW basic or is in very short supply (and that is not huge/expensive) is ok to cast in my eyes.

So no cloned guardsmen or tanks etc, but cloning some shoulder pads and meltas for them is ok.

chromedog wrote:
* Wait. FW have been recasting for years. This is their MO.

Yeah, they 'recast' the original models and such that they make, and certain other models as well, although they do it production style, and after so many copies the silicon starts to break down so after a while you will end up with a warped part no mater what you do.

The warpage that FW are renowned for is little to do with mold wear and tear (which is reduced by the use of mold release) and more to do with improperly mixed resins and insufficient cure time, which results in any straight bit over 2cm taking on a banana-like bend and other pieces being smaller than required (vehicle hatches and add-ons). Mold wear results more in excess flash and enlarged casts.

The bubbles are proof of a lack of pressure casting (for the prices they charge, they can afford to pressure cast resin).

You missed my point though. People say that the usual FW like flaws are a sure sign of something being a recast or copy. On the contrary, it just shows the complete lack of skill in their casting people.

I think its ok to make copies of entire sprues if youd want to do that.

And it can hardly be such a big problem, its probably more expensive to buy the proper equipment then to buy the org sprues.

Recast ~ making a copy of greenstuff

I dont have a problem with recasting anything so long as its not being sold

SilverMK2 wrote:I think it is the only real cost effective way of making "destroyed" vehicle terrain features etc... I would not want to waste either lots of money, or one of my vehicles in order to create a burnt out/exploded land raider/rhino/etc, nor would I particularly want to use up precious bits on one.

I advise that you stay well away from my LGS, then. There be Baneblade wrecks.

Recasting for personal use is probably the safest bet, but it 'hurts GW', as they say. Whether or not this is illegal generally has nothing to do with one's personal opinion on the matter, although it may affect one's willingness to do it.

So it boils down to the usual question... does GW care about you? I'll let you handle that one, Dakka.

Direct recasting for resale is absolute theft no matter how you look at it, but the old 'modify it and resell it' is still a grey area. Obviously GW as a publically traded company would take exception to the practice, but I'd be willing to say that the majority of individual hobbyists, who work for and support GW consider appropriation to be as much a part of the hobby as conversion and house ruling. Proclaiming that it is GW's sole right and privilege to profit from the hobby as a whole is a broad statement - legally they have their intellectual property and nothing else. Is it wrong to sell painted models? Is it wrong to sell personal one-off conversions?

Personally, should I ever meet someone who re-casts entire armies, I'd be fine as long as they don't try to sell their armies.

Perturabo's Chosen wrote:I don't understand what the problem with re-casting for personal use is. It's no different that uploading your CDs to MP3s for you ipod.

Yes it is. It's a lot different. First of all, unless you're somewhat psychotic, you don't listen to the same CD more than once at a time. There is no benefit to owning music, movies, or books more than once (for personal use).

On the other hand, if you make copies of models, you're gaining benefit from each additional model you have. There is a clear benefit to this.

On top of that, the law specifically allows you to make a digital backup copy of any media you own. It does not entitle you to make exact copies of copyrighted miniatures.

As long as you're not selling it (or giving away), what's the harm?

The harm is that you're gaining from someone else's work, without compensating them. They are therefore harmed. If you need 100 marines, and each marine sold nets $.05 for the sculptor, then if you bought your marines, the sculptor would make $5. If you bought 1 marine, and cast the other 99, the sculptor would make $.05. Perhaps that's only a difference of $4.95, but it's still a loss to him.

spartanghost wrote:
I like recasting for the reason that some bitz are just hard (or even impossible) to come by without buying a whole squad, that probably needs it anyway. Tau Seeker misssiles for instance: you get 1 per vehicle, yet each vehicle can take 2. I'd recast them in a heartbeat so i can meet WYSIWG. I don't think it's that different from Greenstuffing your own version. As long as you arent reccasting an entire squad (or if you're digustingly ambitious, a sprue/vehicle) then GW isn't losing any Revenue, really.

If you needed that seeker missile, you might have otherwise paid forgeworld for a seeker missile pack. The fact that you just stole their IP means they're not getting that $10 sale. You are causing them to lose revenue. If you really really needed it, you might buy a skyray to get six. That's more money that you're denying the rightful copyright holder. Or you could make do without...

Cryonicleech wrote:
Personally, should I ever meet someone who re-casts entire armies, I'd be fine as long as they don't try to sell their armies.

Consider this possibility. GW charges a lot of money for their miniatures. They have fixed costs that need to be met - the salaries of their sculptors, the cost of their molds, and so on. They set their prices based on covering these fixed costs plus some profit, divided by the number they expect to sell. Now, if 5% of the people out there are recasting their armies instead of paying for them, they need to charge the paying customers more to cover those losses. Companies don't simply absorb losses like this, they pass them on to the consumers.

In GWs case, I have no idea what the scale of this is, I'll admit this upfront. I know more about the software industry. There are reasons that programs like Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop cost so much, and that's because, outside of corporate buyers, less than half of personal users pay for them, and so everyone else pays more to make up the loss.

elite_dannux wrote:
And it can hardly be such a big problem, its probably more expensive to buy the proper equipment then to buy the org sprues.

This may be the case - but the money is going to the wrong place. You have a mini that you like so much that you're willing to recast it, and you'd rather give money to Joe's resin shack than the guy who has spent years learning his art that you clearly enjoy. Doesn't that seem wrong?

No the money wont go tho the wrong place because the "problem" is so small. Id be surprised if there are eaven 100 people that makes recasts in eaven small numbers IN THE WHOLE WORLD.

You are just acting silly right now.

And as i said, is there a difference in making copies in greenstuff and recast? And what about plasticard?

I have seen dozens of "copies" in plasticard just on this forum, isnt that piracy too? So 2/3 ways to create models is ok?

Red, you've got a point.

I'm not saying "go cast armies" but should someone have casted something I'm fine with it. I'm not going to do it, but it's someone's decision if they wanna break the law.

Plus, I don't know anyone with the technology or time to re-cast whole armies.

elite_dannux wrote:No the money wont go tho the wrong place because the "problem" is so small. Id be surprised if there are eaven 100 people that makes recasts in eaven small numbers IN THE WHOLE WORLD.

The scale of the problem doesn't mean it isn't an issue. Candy bars are inexpensive, they cost the candy company a paltry amount to make. Do you believe it is okay to steal candy from a store, because the value is so small?

It's not silly, it's how society functions. We don't steal items and justify it because the value of the item was low.

Redbeard wrote:
The scale of the problem doesn't mean it isn't an issue. Candy bars are inexpensive, they cost the candy company a paltry amount to make. Do you believe it is okay to steal candy from a store, because the value is so small?

There is a big difference to shoplift a snickers in your example and to make a recast. A "recasted" snickers would be i a bought a whole new kitchen and chocolade/peanuts just to make myself a snickers at home. And is that illegal? To make a copy of a candybar? I have a really hard time to belive that.

Is it ok to shoplift a unit box from a store? Of course not. Is it ok to make a copy of a model (no matter the way)? Yes it is.


And you still havent aswered the question where the difference in recasting/sculpting in greenstuff/builing in plasticard are. For all reasons your coping a model.