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is it just me or do IG seem a bit melta/plasma heavy?

vets with 4 meltas?

in fluff terms the IG are disposable, a vast force that slowly marches into the meat grinder
numbers are a key IG strength

so why does the AD MECH give them so many of their sacred relics, more than space marines (codex for codex)

if you had a plasma/melta gun would you really want a guardsman taking it off into battle?
esp when you know that the guard are used like cannon fodder?

Well obviously you wouldn't give your guardsman special weapons if you were going to walk them into a minefield. There are, however, alternative ways of fielding imperial guard.

Well, if you think that some regiments and units have been fielded for 1000's of years, they are bound to have accumulated a lot of stuff.

I also recall that the SM's look after their weapons very well and pass them down through the years far more than IG do, so once they are set up with weapons, they may not actually need replacements all that often.

So rather than scale back capacity, the forge worlds may as well equip the Guard to make them half way good.

Fluff and game actually agree on this one - vets get all the good stuff they can lay their hands on, disposable infantry get the cheapest weapons going.

B4 a 100 IG commanders scream valks! mech! etc
i was meaning in the grand scheme of things
guard are used in wars of attrition, is this the place for something of such value?

mayb IG should rely more on las tech?

i would rather see more hell guns as special choices
vets with 4 melta/plasma? really?

a vet is still guard, infinately more disposable than a marine

think of it this way:
some guard and marines get stranded on alien planet. limited supplies etc when they 'share' out the weapons for the inevitable last stand, who do you think is guna get the good stuff?

Vets would in theory be the elite of the elite of the normal human, which means that they would be used more for special operations which would require heavy weapons. Also, space marine weapons are usually ancient weapons of much higher quality fluffwise while the guard gear is mass produced garbage made in vast quantities to attempt to compensate for the complete lack of punch by the standard lasgun. Also the "standard" trooper is meant to reperesent the elite of imperial guard, not the mass drafted chattel that are used as meat shields to tie up the enemy in cc while the big guns kill friend and foe, clear out minefields, and march into the drainage systems in such quantities that they clog them during a siege killing the enemy of thirst. I feel as if one last also is in order, the standard human would be worse than a conscript stat wise, probably being about as useful in cc as a grot with the ballistic skill of your average ork, always counting as moving through difficult terrain, and leadership 2.

'Vets would in theory be the elite of the elite of the normal human' hmm elite of the elite? that a BIT generous. and 'normal human?' ambiguous at best
a vet is a guardsman who has learned to duck lol

i like guard armies that break the norm (tanith,elysian) which use special tactics, but vets 'special ops' going behind enemy lines and such would not be ALLOWED to take melta/plasma equip as its too rare
also this type of guard is UNCOMMON

yea space marines euip is much better than guards but the game does not reflect it -no plasma/melta tech is mass produced no matter what version/mark.

'the "standard" trooper is meant to reperesent the elite of imperial guard'
where did you get that from?

im not saying that the guard are used as a human tidal wave
more like they get sent in, thrown against the target,
using conventional tactics
when they fail another company gets sent in, then another and another and another.

MOMUS wrote:'Vets would in theory be the elite of the elite of the normal human' hmm elite of the elite? that a BIT generous. and 'normal human?' ambiguous at best
a vet is a guardsman who has learned to duck lol

'the "standard" trooper is meant to reperesent the elite of imperial guard'
where did you get that from?

1 Vets have the BS of a space marine conscripts have the BS of an ork hence elite of the elite.

2 I cant remember... but look at the armies that are supported the catachan who are basically all rambo, cadians who's entire population is pretty much the army, Valhalla the go too guardsmen for cold weather warfare, Tallarn the best desert warfare units, Death Korps of Krieg an army fanatically devoted to fighting in the emporers name that seems pretty elite compared to the regiments raised on some agri world to beef up numbers for the next wave of a campaign.

The whole point of IG is specializing, and tanks.lol

I'd say the IG codex doesnt represent a standard formation of the Imperium, instead you get to pick and choose
which units/wargear suits your style of gameplay.

Its possible to field 9 battletanks, or 9 selfpropelled artillery pieces or any other build not fitting with the wellknown
organization of companys / regiments in sizes of 3x3 + leader vehicle.

Why wonder where the some vets + 4 melta/plasma comes from?
Its undoubtly a effective build. But has no background in the Imperial Guards history.
The whole codex may not allow any complete formation ( except infantry maybe ) and will therfore not
only allow to take a higher amount of specialised wargear, but most likely hand out more specialised wargear than usual
to make your poor grunts a threat ( lasguns are as everyone knows just markerlights for melta/plasma ).
It also never tells you of any "favoured by that regiment"weapon as the older codices did.

I never figured melta guns to be that rare. I know plasma guns are supposed to be pretty uncommon, but I never heard anything about melta guns being that rare.

MOMUS wrote:is it just me or do IG seem a bit melta/plasma heavy?

vets with 4 meltas?

in fluff terms the IG are disposable, a vast force that slowly marches into the meat grinder
numbers are a key IG strength

so why does the AD MECH give them so many of their sacred relics, more than space marines (codex for codex)

if you had a plasma/melta gun would you really want a guardsman taking it off into battle?
esp when you know that the guard are used like cannon fodder?

Only crappy commanders use guardsmen as cannon-fodder(although arguably, most Imperial commanders are probably average or crappy). Competency really varies across regiments, too. You have the Tanith First and Only, who are arguably among the best light infantry regiments in the Imperium, and then you have some no-name body like the "Zenturion Defenders"(I just made them up)...

What you aren't quite understanding is that veterans have survived through years of constant warfare, and have learned whats what. that being said they are also often thieves and scoundrels who often "borrow" things from the munitorium, so whereas that old plasma gun and melta gun would have been given to some kasrkins or stormtroopers, it might have just fallen off the back of a truck so to speak, and landed in the hands of mr. veteran

@ iamthecougar
ok when you only have a d6 to represent a galaxy worth of shooting, its guna bit a bit 'genralized'
they both have BS4 but a marine is better at shooting agree?
otherwise i could say a defiler has the same WS and BS as a guardsman
also 'i cant remember' is not an argument

@ ronin-sage
how many commanders in the 'grim dark' care about the troops? and for the large part IG would be fairly incompetent
tanith are an exception and the books express my points with regards to frustration with high command
(not that these books should be taken as cannon)

@ennkay
i understand that vets have fought and are experienced
but this dsnt explain why they are more deserving of these relics than a far more able, experienced, skillful, etc space marine

They don't have to be deserving of it, they can just steal it

What im saying is, should it be there in the first place?

Probably for the storm-troopers, as they tend to have more specialized equipment as well as missions.

Because you can't kill tanks with a lasgun, because guardsmen aren't useless cannon fodder, because Space Marines don't feel like exploding, and they don't need plasma weapons to rock, most Space marine prefer other weapons, and they don't get everything, just what they need there's no point in supplying a chapter with a thousand plasmaguns if they prefer fielding dreadnoughts and assault squads. Also if they folow Rowboat Gullyman's codex rules there is probably a rule against plasma....stupid Ultramarines.

Yes i would agree with the storm troopers
they are one of my fave IG units
really like the 3rd/4th ed models over the newer karskin ones
but dnt you think its wierd that you see more melta/plasma than hellguns
las tech is mass produced

GW has started to veer from the IG being human wave but its still a major part of IG lore
fighting 'war of attrition'
IG bear the brunt SMs are the special forces of the imperium

I also agree with Strudel, having one million men is fine and all, but you take one million guys and have them fight a single tank, armed with only a bunch of flashlights, they are going to make their deaths worthless. One of the mottos of Guard is "ask not how you can live for the emperor, but how you may die for him" being make your death useful, if they can arm a guardsmen with an old rusty melta gun they would have otherwise thrown out and have him destroy one ore more tanks before he dies, thats a good investment.

Momus, you're also forgetting that some regiments have closer ties to the Ad Mech and their Forge Worlds than others and are given more plasmas than other regiments.

That and rules =!= fluff.

Apologies if this reply is redundant but.

Fluff wise Imperial Guardsmen and PDF are THE only thing standing in the way of a Xenos threat or rebellion. Billions of guardsmen fightiong across thousands of systems and hundreds of sectors have to rely on their own equipment knowing that the invincible yet thinly spread Astartes my never be seen. Add in the warp and super luminary space travel which means fleets can take years to traverse to hot zones not knowing what they will face adds up to the fact the the IG need to be quipped with the appropriate tech.

Although there is plenty of man power to go round even the high lords relaise that Guards need proper equipment if they are to do their duty and die in the name of the Emperor of Mankind.

There could be a 100 sector wide engagements and the Titan Legions wouldnt even be notified. The Astartes woudl only deploy a squad if the call came, maybe more if it was truly an important battle, then that would be if a surgical strike was needed to help the IG finsih the job not to footslog with the minions.

So, yeah the IG need as many special weapons as they can get. they are on their own.

As for the marines themselves the Bolter should be pretty powerful, IMO they should be a Heavy weapon if given to a guard or similar the bolter is basically firing rocket powered shells (tried in real life). They don't need as many specials they have enough basic arms ot make a proper mess!

i dnt mind IG having special weapons
obviously they need them and should have them but in super spam amounts?
like i said more than SM codex for codex

platuan4th
key word SOME
the IG on paper look like AD MECH lol

Mr. burning
you do realise SM are the most mobile imperial force and usually get places first

But Ig don't have to get to places, they are already there, they're everywhere.

JourneyPsycheOut wrote:I never figured melta guns to be that rare. I know plasma guns are supposed to be pretty uncommon, but I never heard anything about melta guns being that rare.

Poor little Journey... everyone is ignoring you.
I was of the same thought. Who says melta is rare?

That's true I believe the IG codex even said melta-weapons were a readily available alternative to plasma weapons.

MOMUS.

SM can travel quickly BUT they are not going to commit to any and every engagement that is going on around them, they can even refuse to take part. SM would rarely be used or called upon and only where it was neccesary to force an outcome.

I'm pretty sure melta guns used to use petrol as a fuel (old fluff) so they cannot be that exotic.

Besides, It would take a lot of Guardsmen with Plasma and melta guns to be as effective as a single MEQ with equivalent load out.

melta is rarer than las and plasma is rarer than melta

well actually its:
'highly pressurized pyrum-petrol gases with a two part injection system which forces the gases into a molecular state'
and
'sub-atomic agitation of the air, targets on the receiving end are heated to the point of being vaporised'

sounds exotic to me

true about effectiveness of a IG vs SM
i never see missile launchers/grenade launchers which seem a much more readily available option

Well, I'd think that the effectiveness of the weapon would see them produced on many Forge Worlds for Guard Regiments.

Besides, they aren't as effective with guardsmen as they'll probably get shot to pieces before they're in range. (Fluff wise, of course)

Now you are really kinda being ignorant, alot of people have posted plain and clear reasons as to why they would have the weapons and you are like "Eh idk why wouldent they give it to spess marines" the things that they would give to SMs would be plasma CANNONS, not necessarily guns. Whereas they have the opportunity to ask for them, most of them are content with their bolters that demolish everything (fluff wise). As the codex does state that melta weapons are more readily available to guardsmen, i see no reason why there should be a question as to why guardsmen have alot of melta guns.

edit*

also everything is exotic in the 40k universe, else it would be boring.