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Garrac wrote:
Ok, so, there'll be a new preview for between the 5th and 12th of august, if the Oghram patterns are followed, where the 2nd skaven wave will be anounced (im already asuming skaven players will win this)

Guess a 40k preview anouncing the mistery dex and the new roadmap should follow after it? Or am I too deep into conspiracy theory

Depends, all known 40k dex are now out, so if they don't do a preview before the end of August, that's a 2 month content drought with literally nothing on the radar.

I'd suspect a 40k drop between the launch box and 1st faction release, similar to how seraphon iirc were between leviathan and nids.

Dudeface wrote:

Garrac wrote:
Ok, so, there'll be a new preview for between the 5th and 12th of august, if the Oghram patterns are followed, where the 2nd skaven wave will be anounced (im already asuming skaven players will win this)

Guess a 40k preview anouncing the mistery dex and the new roadmap should follow after it? Or am I too deep into conspiracy theory

Depends, all known 40k dex are now out, so if they don't do a preview before the end of August, that's a 2 month content drought with literally nothing on the radar.

I'd suspect a 40k drop between the launch box and 1st faction release, similar to how seraphon iirc were between leviathan and nids.

It really depends on what does GW consider as summer, and most importantly, if september is included on that (very ambiguous) bag.

Would be weird to have a new 40k army dropping on august, tbh.

Garrac wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Garrac wrote:
(im already asuming skaven players will win this)

Tyranids won the last one so now is the time for the Sigmarines

My asumption is that skaven players from TOW (whoever are left after GW nerfed them to the ground) will swarm buy the box on day 1, drop the code, and then sell the sigmarine parts on ebay.

Which doesnt come as a negative saying, mind you, it will in fact make it easier for new sigmarine players to start a cheap army!

I feel as though people vastly overestimate how popular the skaven used to be in fantasy. They always seemed to be on the mid-to-lower end of popularity in my experience.

Dudeface wrote:

Depends, all known 40k dex are now out, so if they don't do a preview before the end of August, that's a 2 month content drought with literally nothing on the radar.

I'd suspect a 40k drop between the launch box and 1st faction release, similar to how seraphon iirc were between leviathan and nids.

Last year we had a "no 40k stuff" preview on July 1st, so I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar that excludes AOS in the next few weeks. They can update roadmaps for the various game systems in advance of AOS's separate big preview event.

Garrac wrote:

It really depends on what does GW consider as summer

They use whole months, so June/July/August. There was a couple of quite clear examples of that last year. For example a 'Spring' HH roadmap item released on the final weekend in May, then the 'Summer' roadmap Seraphon was the following first weekend in June.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

Garrac wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Garrac wrote:
(im already asuming skaven players will win this)

Tyranids won the last one so now is the time for the Sigmarines

My asumption is that skaven players from TOW (whoever are left after GW nerfed them to the ground) will swarm buy the box on day 1, drop the code, and then sell the sigmarine parts on ebay.

Which doesnt come as a negative saying, mind you, it will in fact make it easier for new sigmarine players to start a cheap army!

I feel as though people vastly overestimate how popular the skaven used to be in fantasy. They always seemed to be on the mid-to-lower end of popularity in my experience.

I feel like they were very popular but the actual player count was lower than the popularity due to the model count involved.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

Garrac wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Garrac wrote:
(im already asuming skaven players will win this)

Tyranids won the last one so now is the time for the Sigmarines

My asumption is that skaven players from TOW (whoever are left after GW nerfed them to the ground) will swarm buy the box on day 1, drop the code, and then sell the sigmarine parts on ebay.

Which doesnt come as a negative saying, mind you, it will in fact make it easier for new sigmarine players to start a cheap army!

I feel as though people vastly overestimate how popular the skaven used to be in fantasy. They always seemed to be on the mid-to-lower end of popularity in my experience.

I was, in fact, a skaven player during the fantasy 7th to 8th days. They were, indeed, very popular, to the point where in my country it got hard to find high elf players with whom to share-buy Island of Blood. Others just watched with envy, but had the faction as their favorite, just because an average skaven army was 200-300 models minimum and that was hard to field on a tournament.

I guess this is the salt of an addict...

But I'd love to know if GW's Battleforces are good for their bottom line. I guess they probably are, as they seem to sell out nearly instantly. But to my mind their unavailability (okay I've not sat up on Friday night trying to get one) almost acts as an anti-hype.

Sure, the unique models will show up about 2~ months later. But by then there's a whole range of new-new models, so they don't have the same newness.

GW chooses to make them, if they weren't profitable GW wouldn't make them. GW is under no obligation to make discount boxed sets or anything.

 Overread wrote:
GW chooses to make them, if they weren't profitable GW wouldn't make them. GW is under no obligation to make discount boxed sets or anything.

Well they sell out, so clearly it works. The question is as I said - whether the FOMO works as hype or anti-hype.

I mean this may very much be a "me" issue. Its just there have been various releases I've been interested in - but then I can't buy them.
If I then go and buy regular boxes, GW wins. If I don't buy anything (because I can always look at the new unavailable shiny thing), then they don't really. Although if they sell out of everything they make they obviously won't care.

The fact that GW keeps selling out of everything I think suggests that in the long run its working. I do agree if you miss out its a bummer, but I'd wager if that starts pushing you out of buying GW entirely, chances are you were on your way out already for other things.

Ergo its not enough on its own to drive someone out; but it might be the bit that tips you over alongside a bunch of other things. So if it wasn't the boxed sets being missed it would be something else that would eventually tip you over to moving on.

And that doesn't have to mean that you hate GW or their games. You can grow out of something that you once enjoyed and just not find it as fun; or find other things more engaging and fun.

As long as you're still posting on a GW centric forum about being frustrated that you can't buy their product, you're still hooked, clearly. GW is selling out of everything, they don't care that your personal needs aren't met, you're just a customer in reserve, waiting to buy more if you could...

Also, in all honesty, how many of us both gripe at not being able to get the latest deal whilst at the same time having a small to modest to huge mountain of unbuilt models

Battleforce's are a way clear out excess inventory. They're not producing to meet demand; they're creating demand to consume excess production.

 LunarSol wrote:
Battleforce's are a way clear out excess inventory. They're not producing to meet demand; they're creating demand to consume excess production.

I don't know how many times we have to go over this, but no. They're not a way to clear out excess inventory.

They aren't unboxing old stuff to cram into these.

 LunarSol wrote:
Battleforce's are a way clear out excess inventory. They're not producing to meet demand; they're creating demand to consume excess production.

Yeah no that's not how Battleforces work at all.

GW are not sitting there with mountains of unsold models in boxes and paying people ot unbox them and rebox them in discount boxed sets. That would be sheer madness considering that GW has enough trouble keeping most model lines in stock as it is. GW specifically produces Battleforces with known stocking quantities and planned production. That's how they cna order the boxes half a world away from China, ship them over and get those battleforces made and sent out.

I stand corrected.

Battleforces exist because people cannot resist a bundle. I bet if there was no discount at all people would still go for these bundles first, theres something there that tickles the collector cord.

 Overread wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Battleforce's are a way clear out excess inventory. They're not producing to meet demand; they're creating demand to consume excess production.

Yeah no that's not how Battleforces work at all.

GW are not sitting there with mountains of unsold models in boxes and paying people ot unbox them and rebox them in discount boxed sets. That would be sheer madness considering that GW has enough trouble keeping most model lines in stock as it is. GW specifically produces Battleforces with known stocking quantities and planned production. That's how they cna order the boxes half a world away from China, ship them over and get those battleforces made and sent out.

Yeah, the blind boxes of stuff they sold a couple of years back are the real excess-inventory-flushers.

at best, i imagine battleforces might be a way for GW to make certain kits look better in the books. ie, "this kit from xxx faction from five years ago didn't quite make its money back, so if we put it in this value box, then we can say it breaks even" (and even this much is just speculation on my part)

Battleforces are primarily a tool to convince people into starting new armies. Used to be GW would just tempt people around xmas, now it's with almost every codex.

 xttz wrote:
Battleforces are primarily a tool to convince people into starting new armies. Used to be GW would just tempt people around xmas, now it's with almost every codex.

Gotta convince people to spend $200 on a single new character somehow...

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
at best, i imagine battleforces might be a way for GW to make certain kits look better in the books. ie, "this kit from xxx faction from five years ago didn't quite make its money back, so if we put it in this value box, then we can say it breaks even" (and even this much is just speculation on my part)

GW aren't producing kits which 'don't make their money back'.

The discount boxes are the only thing I even look at nowadays because I won't buy anything at full price or even full price -20%, it's gotta be discounted further.

The main effect this has on me is giving me serious sticker shock when I see how few miniatures I would be getting for really substantial chunks of money. Like I really like the Squighog boyz so I was interested to see them in the Combat Patrol, but it's just a ludicrous amount of money to pay for an elite unit, a HQ and two min sized squads of Boyz.

At this point we might as well take up sculpting, as much as we're expected to paint the bloody things ourselves...

For example, I absolutely love the Eldar Banshees and Reapers, but for only 10 small models thats bloody £80. Even with 20% from Wayland...£64. For only £40 I could have a much larger Wave Serpent.

With very minor kitbashing, sculpting and casting skills, one could instead purchase 10 Guardians and make their own conversions of both those units. And you would still have a heavy platform left over for another conversion project...

 xttz wrote:
Battleforces are primarily a tool to convince people into starting new armies. Used to be GW would just tempt people around xmas, now it's with almost every codex.

Yeah.

Essentially my argument is that GW could potentially earn more by "seeding" new armies via the Battleforces. People then buy more models to bring these forces up to scale.
As it stands however I feel they get instantly sniped by people who probably don't do that. They are disproportionately destined either to head to Ebay, where they'll be broken up and sold for a 10-20% margin, or into the hands of "I bought 3 copies of Leviathan. And then 3 copies of the TOW army boxes. What? No, I don't have a problem."

But then I have no evidence for this - just a suspicion based on who's mad keen to buy them seconds after they become available.

Arguably for GW tracking the difference in the bottom line would be very difficult. If they sell out of everything, then they have maximized their revenue anyway. But its just a thought.

I think the intent is to get people into buying new armies, but I agree, at the rate they sell out it doesn't really provide for much time to ponder about it before it is too late. That said, with the week notice of what is going on pre-order, does provide that to some extent. I can definitely see people who have been circling around the idea of starting a particular army, seeing its coming up to preorder and then trying to get one. Whether or not they are among those who manage to grab one might depend on the release. GSC one I was able to grab at a discount even on Sunday. The ones that sell out in 5-10 minutes, yeah doubt there are many that are trying to start a new army getting one.

GW 100% knows that a lot of people buy-out on starter sets like Leviathan when they are existing customers to either augment armies they already play or start new ones.

Leviathan and similar sets aren't even aimed at newbies by GW - yes they have everything in the box you need to play, but with the rulebook alone basically being free in the box (even more free if you sell off both armies second hand on FB/Ebay); then GW knows they will sell out fast to existing customers more than new ones.

That's why GW then has 3 tiers of welcome pack intro games released after the main starter set. Those are the ones that, over time, GW intends to really be the welcome kit for new people at 3 different price points; the big launch sets are the huge money raker where GW generates big sales.

They also help kick-start people into the new edition by basically gifting rulebooks away for free in the set and thus ensuring that a huge chunk of GW's market gets fired up about grabbing the new rules and moving into the new edition.



GW realised that if they are going to play the rapid editions game they've got to market for rapid editions otherwise people would go "oh new edition, eh I don't need to spend £50 on the new rules and X on new codex just yet, I'll wait and see if its any good"

Instead there's a big new set which floods the market with cheap/easy rulebook access on a limited time period which encourages people to grab them

NAVARRO wrote:Battleforces exist because people cannot resist a bundle. I bet if there was no discount at all people would still go for these bundles first, theres something there that tickles the collector cord.

That reminds of those old (around the 40k 2nd edition time) 2000 points armies they'd sell. They were usually not especially efficient or even that thematically focused but they looked cool. And the only discount was that you got the army leader for free (I think?).

Like the first image here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/131i995/2000_points_space_wolves_army_then_vs_now/

For a while GW was spamming “one-click” bundles on their webstore that offered zero savings.

It’s a little skeevy, but not actively illegal. Just marketing slime trying to flog products.

I don't even see it as marketing scum or anything. Many 3rd party stores also sell army bundles with no additional discount over what they offer for individual packs.

Army bundles without discount are very valid to advertise for sale. Some people like just a one-click approach to buying a load of stuff