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How do!

So this frankly bizarre and probably “do we need to call the men in white coats?” thread is brought to you by my somewhat limited but competent baking skills. And of course, my distaste for lazy social media content tripe.

See, in the UK? We have probably more regional breads than we have regional dialects/accents. And on the latter? That’s a shocking amount.

Usually, it’s some jebend asking “wOt aM yOu CaLl A bReAd RoLl”. On the surface? A kinda fun way to highlight the great variety in what is defined as a bread, and a roll (to me, and this isn’t necessarily scientific or definitive, but a roll is any self contained, around about hand sized bread product). But of course, equally jedbend commentators will argue that all such similarly sized bread products are The One And Same. Because they’ve not tried different ones (and fair enough, local food is local and a level of standardisation has occurred), or haven’t actually stopped to have a think.

Me? I’m an Edinburgh Kid. And so my thoughts immediately go to Well Fired Morning Rolls. I can’t describe the taste and texture, but I can tell you it’s completely different to a Stottie Cake*” Barm Cake**, Cob Roll*** and so on. Certainly wildly different supermarket style soft rolls - which in themselves aren’t universal.

And I’ve had Morning Rolls, Stotties, Barma, Cobs and so on, often with the same fillings. Each brings something slightly different to the flavour party. And hence? They’re all Bread, all Rolls as I defined above for the purposes of this thread. But are more than just Quaint Names.

So…where’s the rant? Brace yourself. Or not. It’s not gonna be that vitriolic.

People Need To Embrace And Celebrate Local Variations Of Pretty Innocuous Foods. And experience as many of them as is reasonably practical wherever you are. They’ve stuck around in their district flavour profiles for a reason. And in their own way? Can help you understand regional and localised sandwich filling preferences. And even sauce preference and so on.

It could be the humble roughly hand sized bread product. It could be the exact pickling method used for..erm…well…pickling. It could be the particular bread of teeny weeny cucumber selected to be pickled (waves happily at Katz’s Deli for an international tiff).

Open your mind, open your mouth, open your tastebuds and enjoy the variety of foodtacular experience that might follow!

*I didn’t make this word up. **Or this one ***Or this one****

****No, really.

My wife is German. She is adamant that we don’t have bread, we have tasteless sponge

On the well fired roll front, I’m not sure that incinerated abomination of a product is even bread any more. However, otherwise I wholeheartedly agree with you sentiments

If memory serves, you’re a fellow Scot?

Even if you’re not, I respect your stance against Well Fired Rolls. I enjoy that slight bitterness, as I think it pairs well with the richer flavours of say, a Fried Egg and Black Pudding roll. With HP Sauce. But perhaps doesn’t play quite as well with Heinz Ketchup, where the bitter might clash with the sweeter flavours of said ketchup.

Otherwise? You’re objectively wrong

Well Fired Rolls kick ass!

I do love me some good sourdough rolls with butter. The sourdough needs to be chewy and soft, with the exterior being almost crispy, but not quite.

Here in the USA we have a restaurant chain called Texas Roadhouse, and before the main meal comes they bring a plate of dinner rolls to the table, and they are amazing! They also give you a nice cinnamon butter to spread on them if that's your thing.

My mother also makes amazing dinner rolls, but these days she only makes them on special occasions like holidays. I can't even describe what makes them so yummy, they just...are. You don't even need butter or jelly or honey or anything else, they're fine on their own.

Hmm.

It’s solid advice to always try the local cuisine. Or travel and try someone else’s food. But in the US of A I’m not sure we have that much of a bread culture. Sure we love our baked goods. But I don’t think that’s a big deal on how we define food.

I’m trying to think of examples of things where people take note of bread regionally.

There is a difference between northern and southern cornbread.
NYC bagels
Boston brown bread.
San Fransisco sourdough

We may call things different names, but the roll is the same. Eg. a sub/grinder/hogie/poboy

Some distinctions are imported. French/Italian bread. Kaiser rolls.

That said, we do have local bakeries, and they are always worth the visit. And we absolutely will judge and compare pizza places on how their crusts stack up.

But most Americans have a huge row of the grocery store, packed with assorted homogenized bread, the same from coast to coast. Well, not this weekend. Snow storm across most of the country, so all the bread and milk will have been panic bought. So maybe today someone is having a different kind of toast with the breakfast because their normal brand was sold out and they grabbed a random remaining loaf off the shelf. Good to try something new!

There’s also Rye, Pumpernickel etc. By no means unique to America, but now arguably more American than their place of origin.

Having been to Katz’s Deli, they’re superb, and an intrinsic part of the Jewish Deli experience.

Homogenised Bread is the same in the UK. Sure I can get different types, like multiseed, brown, decent white, cheap white etc But the majority will be plain old sliced white loaf.

Also some “artisan” posh bread. Which I favour for Pates.

But for some reason? The UK just doesn’t appreciate its bread roll variety. I like a crusty roll with soup (proper crusty mind), Morning Roll for a fry up (and marmalade. They go really well with Marmalade). But for said fried breakfast roll? I will try the local one when out and about.

Real bread is dark, heavy, a bit moist, clay-like (but mot too much!) on the inside.

I have never seen real bread in any US American movie or series. They always eat this weightless sponge.

It is a shame we don’t see Bakeries like we used to. But, like all shops it’s Use or Lose It. And at least, as noted above. UK Supermarkets are offering fancier breads.

But for me? If I want a Morning Roll? I’ve got to go to Scotland. Edinburgh in particular on account that’s my home city. And there, being a city, “proper” bakeries are still found.

Likely a nostalgia thing though.

Cyel wrote:
Real bread is dark, heavy, a bit moist, clay-like (but mot too much!) on the inside.

I have never seen real bread in any US American movie or series. They always eat this weightless sponge.

US Bread if far too sweet, in the case of subway even beeing ruled cake in ireland.

Yet such things still have their place. For instance? Mum used to get us this worryingly pink Salami, which we’d have on plain white sandwiches.

The bread was cheap, the “salami” was cheap. But man I still occasionally crave one of those. Trying to recreate it with fancier bread and actual proper salami isn’t the same, and largely misses the point.

For the US? I’d imagine such childhood memories would be for baloney, PB&J or a Grilled Cheese, where the cheapo bread is just an essential part of the nostalgia.

Sure you can use fancier things and get a great tasting snack. But….is it the same? Is it actually better?


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And on the flip side? If I’ve got some Nduja? I want a nice, fancy bread to go with it. Might be a Cheddar and Jalapeño, might be a Seeded Batch. But ideally it should be fairly crusty. Give me something to chew on.

I can't eat bread any more, which is sad, because Germany has a massive wealth of local bread to eat! The bakery is an absolute community staple here and they do a massive trade in various different kinds of bread all day every day.

No more beer either, and me living in one of the regions with the most breweries per head of population in the world. Sad times!

UK baked goods are under rated though. Especially the meat pastries. Nothing near as good over here.

We have a lot of bakeries in Southern California. Recently, a bunch of Japanese bakeries have been springing up everywhere. They have their own differences, but most are very light and fluffy breads.

Sadly, we used to have a lot of bagel shops, but lost the best ones in favor of the most conveniently located ones, the ones a step above fast food bagels.

Every store that sells Challah sells a different recipe. Trader Joe’s Challah tastes like King Hawaiian rolls, which is very disturbing. The challah that comes clos st to m wife’s fantastic homemade challah ironically comes from Huntington Beach.

We have Turkish and Armenian bakeries nearby, so we’re a bit spoiled for choice. Super King grocery stores carry a wonderful selection of foreign breads, but they’re probably mass produced like the origin country’s wonder bread. Still, worth sampling

Wow these might be worse than the time I started a conversation with a French girl about different types of cheese...

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Wow these might be worse than the time I started a conversation with a French girl about different types of cheese...

Well there are two kinds. The orange and white American singles. Some people have some pretty strong opinions about which one is better.

Cheese is another thing that can be enhanced with the right bread or cracker.

A soft cheese, such as Brie or Camembert needs a robust, crispy crust. Like a proper French Baguette, to bring that variety of texture.

I’ve some Cheddar in the fridge, Actual From Cheddar Cave Aged In Cheddar Gorge Cheddar. And that I prefer on an oatcake.

Cyel wrote:
Real bread is dark, heavy, a bit moist, clay-like (but mot too much!) on the inside.

I have never seen real bread in any US American movie or series. They always eat this weightless sponge.

Rest assured we do indeed have real bread here. The sliced sandwich bread is ubiquitous but it is pretty much only used for its intended purpose, cheap sandwiches and toast. It does have an advantage over real bread in that it takes more than 48 hours to turn into a rock.

Hollywood also has extreme disconnect with how average Americans act, eat, etc... Its why you have supposedly "poor" characters in shows with absurdly large apartments in expensive downtowns who exclusively eat Wonderbread sandwiches.

 Grey Templar wrote:


Hollywood also has extreme disconnect with how average Americans act, eat, etc... Its why you have supposedly "poor" characters in shows with absurdly large apartments in expensive downtowns who exclusively eat Wonderbread sandwiches.

Yup, I was under impression that all these single teachers or office clerks living in spacious lofts or multi-room apartments was somewhat removed from reality

What I too would be interested in: here in Germany (or lets say central europe) it's pretty normal to have bread with cheese, cold cuts etc. for dinner, for breakfast and in between as a snack.

I heard rumors that this was pretty uncommon outside of our region. Is this true? Do Americans Not eat bread for dinner?



On Bakeries and "use it or loose it": I can second that we are lucky over here that there are still lots of bakeries around and not just big chains.

@MadDoc: you raise an interesting point. I never thought about the implication of "getting more into peoples head" by trying their local food.

@ bread rolls: my personal preference for breakfeast are poppy- and sesame-rolls for cheese, french croissants for jam and butter and nice dark rye-rolls for eggs.

In Ireland we definitely don't eat as much bread and cold cuts as you guys. It's still common to have toast for breakfast and sandwiches or a roll for lunch but dinner is not like abendbrot.

I guess the most common closest thing might be a Ploughman’s Lunch. Essentially that’s cheese, crusty bread, some salad stuff and slices of ham or similar cold cuts.

Once a staple of pub fare, as a low cost, easily pre-prepared light meal, and if memory serves, never actually a Thing Ploughman Had. Just a clever, and damned tasty, culinary invention for pubs and to boost cheese sales.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
What I too would be interested in: here in Germany (or lets say central europe) it's pretty normal to have bread with cheese, cold cuts etc. for dinner, for breakfast and in between as a snack.

I heard rumors that this was pretty uncommon outside of our region. Is this true? Do Americans Not eat bread for dinner?

Such stuff would be very common as appetizers during a party.

Personally, I absolutely have that sort of thing as a meal sometimes, but I wouldn't say its normal here to just eat bread and cold cuts all the time.

Bread during dinner if you are having a "sit down at the dinner table" sort of meal is... Well its just in the rotation of common side dishes. A normal dinner when I was growing up or when I visit my parents is just as likely to have bread/rolls as not. It would be meat, vegetables, Salad, and either bread rolls or mashed potatoes. It would have to be a more special occasion for there to be both bread rolls AND mashed potatoes.

Going out at Restaurants bread is much more common. Many, if not most, sit down restaurants will serve complimentary bread and butter in addition to whatever you order unless its not fitting with the type of food they have.

The first food I was allowed to prepare for myself was my snacks of cheese, salami and crackers/bread with butter.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
What I too would be interested in: here in Germany (or lets say central europe) it's pretty normal to have bread with cheese, cold cuts etc. for dinner, for breakfast and in between as a snack.

I heard rumors that this was pretty uncommon outside of our region. Is this true? Do Americans Not eat bread for dinner?

Here in the UK we have what's known as "picky tea" (at least in my neck of the woods) which is a bastion of all tired parents everywhere. It's usually cheese and crackers, bread, deli meats, crisps, pickles, maybe a salad. No cooking involved, easy to plate up and often not at the table and in a more relaxed environment.

I'll crow about a stottie as it's a beautiful gluteny wodge of bread that you can cram as much as you want inside. The name comes from a baker bouncing (stottin') the dough on the workbench to work it. If rain is so heavy it's bouncing off surfaces it's stotting down. It's most often a vehicle for bacon and eggs, but also a regional favourite is ham and pease pudding. Can't whack a stottie as they say.

Sometimes in the UK it feels like we've never gotten over war rationing. Sliced bread from supermarkets is the norm and finding a nice bakery is rare and usually only more commonplace for the middle-class.

My mam moved out to France a few years ago and just being able to get good quality bread from even the smallest villages is a real joy. The tiny village she lives in, everyone grows something and everyone trades their surplus with the neighbours and it's a wonderful thing. I'm sure perhaps it's not the norm but honestly I wish I was. I think everyone in life would be much happier.


I'm definitely a follower of eating local food to help understand local culture. Whenever I'm away somewhere I try and cram as much as I can down my gullet. When I worked out in Nepal and Saudi Arabia I went out to try and eat as much as I could. I've still never eaten a better samosa than the ones I had that a guy in a shack was making on a gas stove by the side of the road in Nepal.

Do hot pretzels count as bread rolls?

Anyhow, what I love about the baskets of dinner rolls that they bring to your table in Germany is that they're not included in the overall meal price. Instead, you're charged extra for every roll you eat.

Oh wait, that's what I hate about dinner rolls in Germany.

On the other hand, Germany does have great bakeries and great hot pretzels.

All this bread talk has encouraged me to get a starter going for homemade sourdough. I do make a fair bit of homemade, ciabattas (normally with seaweed), spelt loaves, mustard loaves, soda breads etc, but been a long time since trying to make sourdough.

Incidentally, my wife and I will be in Edinburgh for a few nights in Feb, so MDG if there are any bakeries that you would recommend... I have been many times but never really paid any attention to them. Which reminds me, got to get tables booked for dinners!

Ooof, been out the city far too long for that! But, the thing about a Good Bakery? You’ll know it when you smell it!

Speaking of Sourdough? I picked up a loaf in Tesco yesterday, thinking it would go well with Boiled Eggs. Brand is Jason’s Sourdough. Grain & Seed Ciabattin worked beautifully as soldiers. Took a good colour, but remind wonderfully chewy inside.

But sadly, I slightly over boiled the eggs, so didn’t get a proper dip.

Trying again tomorrow.


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Speaking of toast? Is it just a me thing, a British thing or a common thing that the best toast is, erm, toasted, under a gas grill? Specifically one of those gas grills mounted on a shelf above the cooker top?

The irish thing is soda bread - extremely easy and fast to make, and quite nice, but very different to bread made with yeast.

My grandad used to make lovely soda bread rather than buying stuff from the shop, and you can get "brown bread" which is soda bread in any shop.

But we're often eating white sliced pan for the most part - though not as sweet as the American stuff and it definitely doesn't keep as long - it's soft and fluffy and goes moldy quite quickly.

Not really a bread-heavy culture though. Much more likely to have spuds with a meal than bread!

My parents used to run a bed and breakfast and they'd have what we call a continental breakfast laid out on a table in the dining room for guests. They had to stop and start making it to order because groups of German pensioners would regularly just clean the whole thing out by making themselves bread rolls for lunch and dinner and pack it all into their luggage - I mean a giant table spread that was meant for all the guests. My german wife was mortified to hear of it.

What about the the 'cob, bun, bap, roll" variation in language for a similar thing?

See above. They often refer and define a specific end product, with different ingredients.

All serve a common culinary function, sure. But they by no means taste the same. Even a proper crusty crust compared to a soft crust makes a different lunch, even if the fillings are identical.

 Da Boss wrote:

My parents used to run a bed and breakfast and they'd have what we call a continental breakfast laid out on a table in the dining room for guests. They had to stop and start making it to order because groups of German pensioners would regularly just clean the whole thing out by making themselves bread rolls for lunch and dinner and pack it all into their luggage - I mean a giant table spread that was meant for all the guests. My german wife was mortified to hear of it.

Lol... Yeah, you get people like that. Though I have to admit, that now and then I did make me one bread roll "for the way" after I ate breakfast in a hotel. One tip for your parents that works on most germans: put up a little sign explaining "buffet only for breakfast, please be considerate of other guests". Usually Germans tend to stick to rules set up in hotels and don't question them further. Of course I can't speak for all of us, but that's my experience.


On the topic of bread: every now and then my wife get's an itch and starts baking bread for a couple of weeks. She has that right now. And then she get's kind of professional about it. Like... using 6+ specific types of flour, using different cast iron pots and "dutch ovens", varying heat and humidity regimes and self made sour doughs. Quite fascinating to watch and the results are rather impressive. Even though it is time consuming enough that she only does it when she doesn't have stress at university.