Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Pariah - 55pts

Elite Choice

Unit Size 5-10

WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I2 A2 Ld10 3+

Wargear - Warscythe with built in Gauss Blaster, Reactive Shielding

Reactive Shielding - 4+ invuln save

Special Rules

Fearless
Reanimation Protocols

Untouchable - Pariahs are the ultimate weapon against psykers and denizens of the warp

All psykers within 12" of the pariahs resolve their tests at leadership 7, and in addition if they (and also Synapse Tyranids/Genestealers, Craftworld Eldar and daemons) engage the pariahs in CC, they strike at ini 1 and must reroll all successful hits.

May take a Night Scythe.

That's a pretty interesting take on pariahs. There is some great potential there. Thank you!

Why all Tyranids? Eldar I could understand, but not all Nids have a psychic presence.

Deadshot wrote:Why all Tyranids? Eldar I could understand, but not all Nids have a psychic presence.

Well, I was inspired by one of the Ciaphus Cain novels. In it, the tyranids were terrified of going near this "blank" guy. I thought it would be interesting to show this in game terms.

...Granted, they were genestealers, so you are prolly right, but for simplicity's sake it might be better to just leave it as it is. Otherwise I might have to write a page long list of exceptions.

WBB and invulnerable saves were both rules when Pariahs existed. They had neither. They should never have them, otherwise, you're ignoring the background of the unit and may as well be inventing something totally new.

DarknessEternal wrote:WBB and invulnerable saves were both rules when Pariahs existed. They had neither. They should never have them, otherwise, you're ignoring the background of the unit and may as well be inventing something totally new.

Yes, and wraiths also had WWB and 1 wound. They now have 2W and no WWB.

Destroyers are now JI, and Scarabs are now beasts.

Meltas can now actually hurt monoliths.

Warscythes no longer ignore invul saves

All of these were massive changes to the models beforehand, and they turned out recognizable

Besides, I never understood why Pariahs didn't get WWB. They were the "next generation" of necron weren't they? Shouldn't they have access to repair tech, but considerably more advanced due to the improved technology?

So if these were in the codex why would anyone take the other warscythe unit? - You'd be paying 15 points for relentless, a guass blaster and a better RP and a inv save. way to cheap if you ask me!

James100 wrote:So if these were in the codex why would anyone take the other warscythe unit? - You'd be paying 15 points for relentless, a guass blaster and a better RP and a inv save. way to cheap if you ask me!

Hmmm Yeah, you do have a point there.

I might drop the 4+ invul afterall. A 60-70 pt model would be a bit odd imo.

I'm thinking give some Pariah rules and aspects to the already fairly customizable base necron lords. That would be totaly acceptable IMO.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:WBB and invulnerable saves were both rules when Pariahs existed. They had neither. They should never have them, otherwise, you're ignoring the background of the unit and may as well be inventing something totally new.

Yes, and wraiths also had WWB and 1 wound. They now have 2W and no WWB.

Destroyers are now JI, and Scarabs are now beasts.

Meltas can now actually hurt monoliths.

Warscythes no longer ignore invul saves

All of these were massive changes to the models beforehand, and they turned out recognizable

Besides, I never understood why Pariahs didn't get WWB. They were the "next generation" of necron weren't they? Shouldn't they have access to repair tech, but considerably more advanced due to the improved technology?

Agreed. Matt Ward didn't exactly stick to old fluff. This is a great take on a unit I used to love.

phantommaster wrote:
Agreed. Matt Ward didn't exactly stick to old fluff. This is a great take on a unit I used to love.

See, we exist!

James100 wrote:So if these were in the codex why would anyone take the other warscythe unit? - You'd be paying 15 points for relentless, a guass blaster and a better RP and a inv save. way to cheap if you ask me!

Well, GK Termies cost 40pts and Paldins 55pts. They gain +1 wound, +1 WS, +1 attack, and the Holocaust power, as well as an option for an apothecary, and all of them can potentially have MC weapons, as well as cheaper Heavy Weapons.

Seems about right to me!

Deadshot wrote:

James100 wrote:So if these were in the codex why would anyone take the other warscythe unit? - You'd be paying 15 points for relentless, a guass blaster and a better RP and a inv save. way to cheap if you ask me!

Well, GK Termies cost 40pts and Paldins 55pts. They gain +1 wound, +1 WS, +1 attack, and the Holocaust power, as well as an option for an apothecary, and all of them can potentially have MC weapons, as well as cheaper Heavy Weapons.

Seems about right to me!

Oh yeah, I forgot about them .

DakkaDakka wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:I swear, I think some people just love completely hosing Daemons....

I like it, but your special rules for them being Untouchables is a bit too much.

Untouchables! That's what they are called. Thanks

Yeah, it is a bit too harsh towards demons. It does make sense from a fluff stand point, but striking at ini1 with rerolls on successive hits AND rerolls on invuls is excessive.

I'll take away the bit that penalize demons a bit more than the others.

i do believe that the reactive shielding is a bit too much. you should either increase the price, or reduce the invulnerable save.

just my 2 cents.

I'm not sure I like them to be honest. Obviously I can see what you're working for and you've given them an invulnerable save and 2 attacks to make them better in close combat, but I think outside of a 1-unit vacuum it doesn't really work IMHO. I'll explain this in a bit...

I'm not sure on the points cost; obviously they're tough with a T5 4++//4+++, but they still only have a 3+ save, despite being 55pts. Can they really warrant being the same price as Paladins? I think if their invulnerable was 5+ they could be 45pts which is more reasonable IMHO. However, this then compounds the problem of how they work within the Necron 'dex as a whole:

This is where I really think your rules fall down IMHO, as they don't work within the Codex, they completely outclass the already fairly weak Lychguard and Praetorians, therefore rendering them as poor choices. However, at 55pts, they're not exactly a stunning choice themselves IMHO. But you can't afford to loose the invulnerable save altogether as that renders them pretty useless, whilst making them 5++ and 45pts makes Lychguard pretty useless(er).

I REALLY think Pariahs would be best as an upgrade to a Cryptek (much like Harbinger of ____) and I don't see why gamesworkshop couldn't have followed this route in the 1st place.
It means they don't compete (directly at least) with lychguard (and Praetorians) and don't need an invulnerable save or whatnot as they are not solely a dedicated close combat unit. This also adds a nice effect to the force in that it can provide the untouchables effect to a unit, something along the lines of:
"Any unit including a Pariah may negate the effect of any Psychic Power cast upon them on a 4+. Furthermore, the Pariah is immune to the effects of all psychic powers and any enemy psyker within base contact strikes at Initiative 1" and that's just an example.

This provides Necrons some defence against psychic powers, makes Pariahs viable without rendering Lychguard or Praetorians invalid, means they can balance out their stat-line and would still remain a viable option (but not must-take) compared to the other harbinger abilities.

Without trying to take over the thread, I really think this is the manner in which Pariahs should/could be included in the Necron Codex IMHO.

Here was my idea for them:

0-1 Retinue choice for a Necron Overlord instead of taking a Royal Court.

0-1 Necron Pariahs ... 40 points per model

WS4 BS4 S5 T5 I3 A1 LD10 SV3+

Unit Type: Infantry

Unit Composition: 5 Necron Pariahs

Wargear: Gloom Prism, Liberators (Just a renamed generic Warscythe with the typical built-in Gauss Blaster.)

Special Rules: Reanimation Protocols, Fearless, Insurgency.

Insurgency. Grants the USR Furious Charge and Counter-Attack.

They cost a little more than they used to, but retain their old characteristics, namely their Initiative 3. Giving them a Gloom Prism just seemed to be easier than re-working their old Psychic Abomination and Soulless special rules. In this case, I think they're more obviously suited for a foot-slogging Overlord. A Overlord with the Phaeron upgrade would allow them to become Relentelss, so I didn't see a need to give it to them. They provide some degree of psychic defense, work decently as a body guard unit and as a unit to spearhead an assault or brace for a counter-assault.

in my opinion, that version is better.

But that version completely outclasses the other CC options within the Codex, particularly Lychguard. This is slightly reduced by replacing the royal court, but it's still an issue.

I think Just Dave has the best version here...

Why not just make them a Lych Guard/Praetorian upgrade. Maybe a 5++, SitW style rule, and a pyschic hood? Except it is a solid 4+ roll.

Maybe, instead of all nids being I1 and and re-rolling rolls to hit, maybe only nids with Psy powers.

Just Dave wrote:But that version completely outclasses the other CC options within the Codex, particularly Lychguard. This is slightly reduced by replacing the royal court, but it's still an issue.

It doesn't "completely" outclass them. The praetorians still have a better a ranged option (as far as shear strength goes) and the lychguard get the invul save with the shield bounce back (for as little good as that actually is). So those "pariahs" having only a 3+ Sv and the other rules is still...kind of within spec.

Though I hold that the codex is perfectly fleshed out as it is and needs nothing more.

Kevin949 wrote:

Just Dave wrote:But that version completely outclasses the other CC options within the Codex, particularly Lychguard. This is slightly reduced by replacing the royal court, but it's still an issue.

It doesn't "completely" outclass them. The praetorians still have a better a ranged option (as far as shear strength goes) and the lychguard get the invul save with the shield bounce back (for as little good as that actually is). So those "pariahs" having only a 3+ Sv and the other rules is still...kind of within spec.

Though I hold that the codex is perfectly fleshed out as it is and needs nothing more.

Better?

It may not completely outclass them then, but it is a much better unit than the Lychguard or Praetorians.

Don't all tyranids hold an aversion to blanks? That is my understanding.

Also, I increased the minimum squad size. So now it takes 275 pts to field 5 1W guys. That's more than 6 Shield guard, and more than 6 praetorians.

Also, that's a good point about the Phaeron. I'll remove the relentless rule.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Don't all tyranids hold an aversion to blanks? That is my understanding.

Arent Space Marines super awesome super soldiers that each one is worth hundreds of guardsmen? Remember that sometimes fluff has to take a backseat for gameplay


Plus the pariah gene assassins dont have this

I love it as is, but if I may offer a tweak -

1- Instead of Reanimation protocols, make them Canoptic like wraiths and spyders, and give them an additional wound. The 55 point price tag justifies a second wound, but 2 wounds + RP might be too much.

2. Instead of the auto-fail on psychic tests, give them back their old 'horror' quality, forcing all enemy units within 12" of them to treat their leadership value as if it was 7 (getting around stubborn, and making psykers sweat). Negating Synapse is kind of fun, but tyranids don't need any extra screwing over.

3. Pariahs were great because of the whole ignore invulnerable save thing, which, now that everything in the game seems to have an invulnerable save, would have been awesome... to compensate for that loss, make the warscythes mastercrafted.

A 4++ with an MC S7 PW and a blaster, walking around with T5 and W2 and A2 is pretty nice at 55 PPM and provides a nice alternative to lichguard.

Finally, give them the necron teleport cloaks and the deepstrike ability.

junk wrote:I love it as is, but if I may offer a tweak -

1- Instead of Reanimation protocols, make them Canoptic like wraiths and spyders, and give them an additional wound. The 55 point price tag justifies a second wound, but 2 wounds + RP might be too much.

2. Instead of the auto-fail on psychic tests, give them back their old 'horror' quality, forcing all enemy units within 12" of them to treat their leadership value as if it was 7 (getting around stubborn, and making psykers sweat). Negating Synapse is kind of fun, but tyranids don't need any extra screwing over.

3. Pariahs were great because of the whole ignore invulnerable save thing, which, now that everything in the game seems to have an invulnerable save, would have been awesome... to compensate for that loss, make the warscythes mastercrafted.

A 4++ with an MC S7 PW and a blaster, walking around with T5 and W2 and A2 is pretty nice at 55 PPM and provides a nice alternative to lichguard.

Finally, give them the necron teleport cloaks and the deepstrike ability.

1] That would be a good idea, but pariahs are meant to be the new generation of necrons. Why wouldn't they have RP?

2] Done. Yeah, the autofail is a bit OTT. They are more like they were originally.

3] Logically, if that would be the case and the reason, then all WS would be mastercrafted, not only on pariahs.

Teleport cloaks and DS would be a bit much I think. They can already take a Transport.

I like the rules but the Reanimation protocol seems too out of place IMHO. Pariahs are humans that have been modified to serve the necrons. They are still technically living and thus are unable to repair damage like other necrons. FNP would suit them better since it could be cancelled, but would make them more impervious to small arms fire.