The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 85 Designer interview

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**Leggy**

Yeah, Abbadon is around Summer-Autumn 1996. He was released with the Codex:Chaos release for second edition, just before I got into collecting.
Crikey I feel old.

Update: He is on the cover of White Dwarf 199, which was the July 1996 issue.

**H.B.M.C.**

I remember buying that issue. That Chaos Codex was huge. And oh so yellow!

If it's Doobie + a Khorne guy + a Daemon Prince, then they've really wasted an opportunity to do Doobie + his four Chaos God-aligned Champions.

I mean these boxes don't have to have 3 guys in them (hell, the first box had 5!), so why not those 5?

**Galef**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I remember buying that issue. That Chaos Codex was huge. And oh so yellow!

If it's Doobie + a Khorne guy + a Daemon Prince, then they've really wasted an opportunity to do Doobie + his four Chaos God-aligned Champions.

I mean these boxes don't have to have 3 guys in them (hell, the first box had 5!), so why not those 5?

For the same reason that the Eldar one doesn't have Eldrad. He just got a model
Kharn & Arhiman just got models, so they would not be in the box for Chaos
That leaves Abby, Typhus & Lucius, but I actually doubt those would be the 3 either, if nothing other than both boxes so far have had 1 "big" model, 1 infantry model & 1 'in between' model

-

**BrookM**

Khârn and Ahriman may be champions of their respective gods, but they are not the chosen four of Abaddon.

**H.B.M.C.**

Galef wrote:
For the same reason that the Eldar one doesn't have Eldrad. He just got a model
Kharn & Arhiman just got models, so they would not be in the box for Chaos

Who said anything about Kharn and Ahriman?

I'm talkin' 'bout these guys (to be fair, Urkrathos is part of the rumour, but why not the other three?).

**the_scotsman**

Ah yes, the traditional four horsemen of the apocalypse. War, Pestilence, Rainbow Wizard Vultures and Excessive Canoodling.

**Ynneadwraith**

Semper wrote:

I don't actually recall this anywhere in the fluff in 20 years of play (I could very well me wrong, I hasten to add). As far as I am aware, Greater Daemons are just extra power along the same alignment as that which forms a god as opposed to a fragment. The implication being that a Chaos God would have to 'break' itself to create a GD were they to be a fragment. As I understood it, they were just extra and this is further supported by the fact that in current fluff, mortals can be elevated to GD's according to the wiki's etc. There's so much rage that Khorne is abundantly able to make Bloodthirsters without compromising himself. This then feeds into the idea that for Khaine to actually provide his species with any fighting chance, actually had to fracture himself to provide a significantly powerful warrior on par with these great gods who are the strongest divinity's in all iterations of Warhammer and who just toss out powerful servants like they're nothing. I saw it as a part of the whole tragedy angle of the Eldar. GD's are just big, powerful daemons that feed off the same emotions as a god and the avatar is literally an avatar.

On topic anyway....

Surely a Chaos Triumvirate would be Typhus, Abaddon and Zaraphiston? Abby being the big center piece, though I hope they don't do some pre-set pose, tons of extra 'area effect' cartoon model like with the rest.

Hmmm, I shall have to try and find the reference. I definitely remember that being the way it was described. Perhaps someone can help me out with that!

What you're describing with mortals elevated to daemonhood is what Daemon Princes are, rather than Greater Daemons.

Similar entities, but distinct in their methods of creation.

Definitely back on topic, I think it's probably a mistake to look for other known characters to accompany Abaddon. The other Triumvirates each included at least one brand new character.

Who else has been mentioned on the Chaos side in FoC I? Is it just Abaddon, or others?

If it is going along the lines of Big>Medium>Small for base sizes then Abaddon, Daemon Prince/Greater Daemon and a little chappy would seem to fit. Could we see some sort of 'arch heretic cultist' dude?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
Ah yes, the traditional four horsemen of the apocalypse. War, Pestilence, Rainbow Wizard Vultures and Excessive Canoodling.

Exalted!

**Iracundus**

Ynneadwraith wrote:
Semper wrote:

I don't actually recall this anywhere in the fluff in 20 years of play (I could very well me wrong, I hasten to add). As far as I am aware, Greater Daemons are just extra power along the same alignment as that which forms a god as opposed to a fragment. The implication being that a Chaos God would have to 'break' itself to create a GD were they to be a fragment. As I understood it, they were just extra and this is further supported by the fact that in current fluff, mortals can be elevated to GD's according to the wiki's etc. There's so much rage that Khorne is abundantly able to make Bloodthirsters without compromising himself. This then feeds into the idea that for Khaine to actually provide his species with any fighting chance, actually had to fracture himself to provide a significantly powerful warrior on par with these great gods who are the strongest divinity's in all iterations of Warhammer and who just toss out powerful servants like they're nothing. I saw it as a part of the whole tragedy angle of the Eldar. GD's are just big, powerful daemons that feed off the same emotions as a god and the avatar is literally an avatar.

On topic anyway....

Surely a Chaos Triumvirate would be Typhus, Abaddon and Zaraphiston? Abby being the big center piece, though I hope they don't do some pre-set pose, tons of extra 'area effect' cartoon model like with the rest.

Hmmm, I shall have to try and find the reference. I definitely remember that being the way it was described. Perhaps someone can help me out with that!

What you're describing with mortals elevated to daemonhood is what Daemon Princes are, rather than Greater Daemons.

Similar entities, but distinct in their methods of creation.

Daemons have always been fragments of their god given life.

From the previous Codex: Chaos Daemons (which repeats basically what was given in the very first Realms of Chaos books)

A Daemon is 'born' when a Chaos God gives up a little of its power to create a separate being. This power binds a collection of senses, thoughts and purposes together, giving a personality and consciousness that moves within the Warp. The Chaos power can reclaim the power and independence it has given to its Daemon children at any time, thus ensuring their loyalty.

p.6, Codex: Chaos Daemons

**warboss**

Ynneadwraith wrote:

'Chaos Eldar' from 2nd haven't been mentioned since, and I think are about as unlikely to reappear as a faction as Zoats. While I absolutely love the idea, and some people have done some really cool things with Eldar still living in the Eye, I don't think that's what these guys are. It just doesn't fit right.

Neat idea though

Unless they just handwave that into the background of Altansar with some retconning. If 2nd edition "chaos" eldar live in the warp, I'm pretty sure it's not difficult to just meld them with Altansar eldar who spent 95% of the last 10,000 years doing the exact same thing. Their always wearing masks and helmets could be because they have less prominent mutations similar to that avatar. Since they're not following the existing 13th crusade fluff from 2004ish, Altansar's reappearance this time around could coincide with whatever is in that new eldar triumvirate. (speculation, not rumor)

**Ynneadwraith**

Perfect

exactly what I was looking for

Always good to get direct quotes from the fluff. Saves a lot of farting about

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Chaos Box could be anyone and anything. Other than Abaddon, I suspect it'll be brand new characters?

**EnTyme**

the_scotsman wrote:Ah yes, the traditional four horsemen of the apocalypse. War, Pestilence, Rainbow Wizard Vultures and Excessive Canoodling.

Thanks. Now my entire office is staring at me for laughing so hard.

**guru**

I do not know where they come from, but...

**Ynneadwraith**

Oh god 'Aeldari' is an actual thing. That's not a good sign.

So, what can we see. The formation on the left looks like Dire Avengers ahead of Incubi with something else in darker armour I can't quite make out. Wyches?

The aeldari (shudders) bladehost seems to be Harlies and Storm Guardians.

**Cosmic Schwung**

Gah, too blurry to make out any of the text. Feels like a controlled leak to me.

**Kanluwen**

Ynneadwraith wrote:
Oh god 'Aeldari' is an actual thing. That's not a good sign.

So, what can we see. The formation on the left looks like Dire Avengers ahead of Incubi with something else in darker armour I can't quite make out. Wyches?

The aeldari (shudders) bladehost seems to be Harlies and Storm Guardians.

Soulbound Vanguard says:
4 units of Dire Avengers, 1 unit of Incubi, and 1 unit of Wyches.

**Red Corsair**

Oh look it's Aeldari formations conspicuously lacking none dire avenger aspects. Hopefully we get more formations that contain other aspects.

Also appears as though the visarch has some red incubi, looking less and less like Yriel by the minute.

**Ynneadwraith**

Kanluwen wrote:
Ynneadwraith wrote:
Oh god 'Aeldari' is an actual thing. That's not a good sign.

So, what can we see. The formation on the left looks like Dire Avengers ahead of Incubi with something else in darker armour I can't quite make out. Wyches?

The aeldari (shudders) bladehost seems to be Harlies and Storm Guardians.

Soulbound Vanguard says:
4 units of Dire Avengers, 1 unit of Incubi, and 1 unit of Wyches.

So it does.

By the looks of the text, the formation on the right (can't bring myself to say it) has Wyches too...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Red Corsair wrote:
Oh look it's Aeldari formations conspicuously lacking none dire avenger aspects. Hopefully we get more formations that contain other aspects.

Also appears as though the visarch has some red incubi, looking less and less like Yriel by the minute.

Don't say that. I've got a hat to eat...

**Red Corsair**

Kanluwen wrote:
Ynneadwraith wrote:
Oh god 'Aeldari' is an actual thing. That's not a good sign.

So, what can we see. The formation on the left looks like Dire Avengers ahead of Incubi with something else in darker armour I can't quite make out. Wyches?

The aeldari (shudders) bladehost seems to be Harlies and Storm Guardians.

Soulbound Vanguard says:
4 units of Dire Avengers, 1 unit of Incubi, and 1 unit of Wyches.

Second formation reads to me as having wyches storm guardians and Troupes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well I can at least hope wyches get an improvement.... Bahahahahaha! Sorry I can't!

**Galef**

Red Corsair wrote:

Also appears as though the visarch has some red incubi, looking less and less like Yriel by the minute.

And more and more like Arhra. Still could be Yriel, but I thought it was Arhra before I read that frontline gaming article about Yriel. I hadn't known about the Veilwalker/Yriel connection prior to that

As long as it isn't some made up, "no one has ever heard of before, but here he is" character I will be a happy camper

-

**Ynneadwraith**

I will categorically not be a happy camper as I will be eating a Top Hat.

They made those things with Mercury you know...

2nd formation is definitely Wyches, Harlies and Storm Guardians. Corroborated by the pic

**Cosmic Schwung**

Visarch really is looking pretty big compared to those incubi.

**Galef**

Cosmic Schwung wrote:
Visarch really is looking pretty big compared to those incubi.

Yet quite small compared to those Daemonettes right in front of him

**Ynneadwraith**

Yeah I think that's lens distortion.

**Red Corsair**

Galef wrote:
Cosmic Schwung wrote:
Visarch really is looking pretty big compared to those incubi.

Yet quite small compared to those Daemonettes right in front of him

Isn't it hilarious how few people understand perspective.

**Galef**

Red Corsair wrote:

Isn't it hilarious how few people understand perspective.

Yes it is. Especially since we know that Visarch is on a base no bigger than 32mm, judging by the comparison between him and the Emissary in the glass case photo.
Emissary is for sure on the 60x35mm oval, meaning Visarch is on a 32, maybe even only a 25mm

-

**Imateria**

Red Corsair wrote:
Galef wrote:
Cosmic Schwung wrote:
Visarch really is looking pretty big compared to those incubi.

Yet quite small compared to those Daemonettes right in front of him

Isn't it hilarious how few people understand perspective.

It would be if it wasn't so sad. It's quite obvious that the page in that photo is bent as well.

**xttz**

Cosmic Schwung wrote:
Gah, too blurry to make out any of the text. Feels like a controlled leak to me.

The pics are almost certainly from the next WD, with the formation pic zoomed in considerably.

**pretre**

Warhams-77 wrote:
From Blog for the Blood God on FB

https://www.facebook.com/BlogForTheBloodGod/photos/pb.1433169386929903.-2207520000.1485344420./1862206167359554/?type=3&theater

I have no idea if this is reliable

Blog for the Blog God - Total rumors: (1 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

**Red Corsair**

Hmmm, tinfoil hat time but I have a question, is gangs of commorragh a limited run? I ask because what are the odds they are burning through stock on a redundant item if the eldar merge into one book.

The saving grace I suppose is the formation containing storm guardians with the upgrade pack....unless...