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reds8n wrote: There's quite a lot of wider than 5 units in the books aren't there though ?

So when are they going up on the site for preorder?

reds8n wrote: There's quite a lot of wider than 5 units in the books aren't there though ?

Are there?

Someone care to list them?

Alpharius wrote:

reds8n wrote: There's quite a lot of wider than 5 units in the books aren't there though ?

Are there?

Someone care to list them?

Skaven are the obvious example I can think of, particularly units with Plague Furnances or Screaming Bells.

Assuming the pre order question was actually about the trolls and that... hmm... about 2 weeks AFAIK. That said there has been some issues witht eh site of late -- whole swathe of the weekend it couldn't accept card payments at all -- but that would fit with the month or so early for this sort of thing.

With regards to the ranks... well... what I heard was something that ran along the lines of a unit of infantry could attack with a number of ranks equal to half their frontage (rounding down), with certain beasts etc ( I assume things like ogres etc etc) counting as X number of normal infantry ( I want to say Unit Strength here but a lot of my fantasy knowwats aint all that). THusly a 10 wide block could attack with 5 ranks, an 8 wide block ( which I believe we see a few of in the Skaven book) could attack with 4 and a unit of 6 monsters.. like those 2 by 3 units of Minotaurs we've seen of late, could attack with both ranks. This could/would then be affected further by things like spears, other weapons, err... other things that matter in fantasy.

As to whether or not this is true now or ever was....... I have no idea.. currently.. but....

It provides a bit of a help for Ogres/similar and would perhaps go some way to explaining a possible delay in regards to the production of their book, which is AFAIK still miles off.

Would provide more brutal "assaults" which involves more of the models, and would, I think, resolve fights quicker as more people died/actually did stuff other than sitting there. You might actually have a reason to paint ( and buy!) that extra rank of identically armed spearmen now maybe.

Would sell more models and perhaps go some way to making actual hordey type armies a bit more viable.

Bear in mind : obviously this would be balanced and affected by any other changes they made in the system and... this might not be true or that accurate. Ideas are tried and discarded many times during the development of a ruleset, let's not go into meltdown mode eh please .

Not much to add as far as rumors go, other than that I heard the rumor of one-turn combat res from the staff at my old local GW a couple months back.

Orlanth wrote:
Perhaps Jervis was enough of a moron to actually think is a good idea, that I can believe. But someone in GW studio ought to be level headed enough to see this for the colossally bad idea it is.

Please, if anyone at GW actually had any desire to keep Jervis's BS in check, he would've been fired years ago.

I don't like the idea of 1 turn combat resolution at all. From a gaming point of view, I like the idea of units colliding and fighting wars of attrition and elites holding their ground against massed hordes in 'might vs masses' battles. Quick kill n move on is for 40k and modern warfare styles imo.

All I wanna know is what the deal with the 8th starter is. I really want to try my hand at Fantasy, game looks fun as hell.

I noticed that mentions earlier, it would be a hideous turn of events for Warhammer if it were true. Mass pitched Battle slug fests have kept me interested in Fantasy for 20 years. My huge units of Goblins would seam rather pointless if it all fighting boils down to 1 round of combat, either you win or all die.

cpt_fishcakes wrote:I noticed that mentions earlier, it would be a hideous turn of events for Warhammer if it were true. Mass pitched Battle slug fests have kept me interested in Fantasy for 20 years. My huge units of Goblins would seam rather pointless if it all fighting boils down to 1 round of combat, either you win or all die.

So would tarpit skellie units.

Which would be sad, as I think I finally actually wanna do TK this year(I'll believe it when I put the money down, I've been saying that about Skaven for 3 years, too...).

Heres hopping rumors and idle speculation turn out to be just that.

But the general consensus seems to be that core units will get a big boost, this can only be a good thing. I find my self getting more and more concerned at how this is going to be achieved though. I think I should just stop reading rumor threads

Just wait and see to pass judgement, you never know. It may end up being a turn for the better in the end! Worrying about it at any rate won't change anything.

Reds8n's extra rank attacks revelation (see above) would be a major game changer. It would certainly liven up combat and would be perfect for skaven

However, it would mess up some armies quite badly with Undead being the worst hit I think (it doesn't help that they are rubbish in close combat).

The rule for spears would have to change too. -1 to hit or perhaps denying those extra rank attacks to their opponents.

reds8n wrote: With regards to the ranks... well... what I heard was something that ran along the lines of a unit of infantry could attack with a number of ranks equal to half their frontage (rounding down), with certain beasts etc ( I assume things like ogres etc etc) counting as X number of normal infantry ( I want to say Unit Strength here but a lot of my fantasy knowwats aint all that). THusly a 10 wide block could attack with 5 ranks, an 8 wide block ( which I believe we see a few of in the Skaven book) could attack with 4 and a unit of 6 monsters.. like those 2 by 3 units of Minotaurs we've seen of late, could attack with both ranks. This could/would then be affected further by things like spears, other weapons, err... other things that matter in fantasy.

Huh! Yeah, that would explain the mino formations. I figure the Beastmen movement spell will be explained by moving magic to the first phase. Hmm...wonder just how much of a lift the Beasts are gonna get once 8th hits?

Another thing with 10 wide...It would be almost impossible to maneuver them. Wheeling wouldn't get them anywhere fast.

Perhaps, WFB8 will do away with the archaic "wheel" nonsense and simply require that no model move more than M or 2xM from its original position.

But that would greatly nullify manuevering/flanking/etc... it'd be just moving your large block almost like a big skirmisher... not what I'd like to see...

No, it wouldn't, because the guy on the far corner limits how far the unit can go.

There's no free distance gained from pivot, so kills conga lines dead.

Heard rumor (no sources I can give ATM: From another forum and they didn't share their source) that magic is going to come first in the game, before charges. That'd make sense with the new Beast book, as then the omission of being able to charge would be because you could still charge after spell declaration. Hopefully - if this is true - it is actually "Spells before movement", and not the introduction of a horrid "Charge" phase to WHFB.

I'm still less than amused by a 10 wide front. While I have the models to do this (Yay, Orcs & Goblins!), there's still the issue that thirty models gives me +2 combat res. I wonder how much that's going to matter with my enemy's 20-to-30 attacking models to balance it out. Seriously, outside something stupid like Night Goblins v Chosen with Shields there's pretty much no reason to try getting past +1 or +2 from Ranks as just by attacking you can make up oodles more CR points than by buying another rank.

I don't like the concept of multiple ranks fighting, as - while I can see where some of the advantages are (A full rank not bothered by the Nurgle Daemon's de-buff spells), it doesn't counter the whole new can of worms (specifically: Chaos Warriors is pretty much going to scream to the very top of the lists as they're going to eat people alive in hand to hand, and with the lack of flanking or support charges due to the one-phase combats there's going to be no way to overthrow their likely double-digit CR from wounds).

Minsc wrote:Heard rumor (no sources I can give ATM: From another forum and they didn't share their source) that magic is going to come first in the game, before charges. That'd make sense with the new Beast book, as then the omission of being able to charge would be because you could still charge after spell declaration. Hopefully - if this is true - it is actually "Spells before movement", and not the introduction of a horrid "Charge" phase to WHFB.

I'm still less than amused by a 10 wide front. While I have the models to do this (Yay, Orcs & Goblins!), there's still the issue that thirty models gives me +2 combat res. I wonder how much that's going to matter with my enemy's 20-to-30 attacking models to balance it out. Seriously, outside something stupid like Night Goblins v Chosen with Shields there's pretty much no reason to try getting past +1 or +2 from Ranks as just by attacking you can make up oodles more CR points than by buying another rank.

I don't like the concept of multiple ranks fighting, as - while I can see where some of the advantages are (A full rank not bothered by the Nurgle Daemon's de-buff spells), it doesn't counter the whole new can of worms (specifically: Chaos Warriors is pretty much going to scream to the very top of the lists as they're going to eat people alive in hand to hand, and with the lack of flanking or support charges due to the one-phase combats there's going to be no way to overthrow their likely double-digit CR from wounds).

Just for fun

2o kohrn warriors full command dual hand weapons 81 attacks

50 gobos with spears 31 attacks

warriors
54 hits
45 wounds
45 dead gobos

gobos
11 hits
8 wounds
4 dead

gobos combat res 8

warriors 48

Hey, thanks for proving my point See, right there the extra goblins are more helpful than the attacks. Not that it really helped much, but the point remains that extra ranks were more helpful there and the Khorne Warriors are pretty much never going to need more than that one extra rank.
EDIT: And, likely, this would hold true versus any army's rank and file with said Warriors.

I just want it to stay the way it is, and add multiple ranks fighting. No need for 10 wide or whatever.

Jambodini over at Ogre Stronghold posted this rumour:

I was at Warhammer World on Monday and was chatting to a member of staff there. He revealed a few things about the Fantasy update:

1) Fantasy 8th edition is out in summer.
2) The box set - The Gates of Calith - is High Elves and Skaven
3) The Elves get new spearmen and a plastic lord on Griffon
4) The Skaven get a Screaming bell ( :shock
5) Forge World are definetly doing a Chaos Dwarf rules set and models.
6) The Chaos Dwarfs are estimated to be out in 18 months, but the staff member suspects it might be about 3 years!

Hope these are good rumours,
-Jambodini

Not sure about the tidbit about another screaming bell in the starter.

Pass me the sodium chloride so I can take a few grains to scatter liberally over this rumour.

1, 2 and 3 I'll buy. 4 makes no sense whatsoever, especially given GWs bean counting nature. A Hell Pit Abomination would be more logical as they used loads of these at the Calith dust up. 5 and 6? All very well, but it doesn't really give Chaos Dwarf players the official army they've been after.

Skaven vs High Elves still doesn't appeal to me at all. For an introduction set these particular armies are a wrong choice, Imo.

Well I'm sold but only because of my addiction to all things warpstone related. I'll sell the Elves...

TBD wrote:Skaven vs High Elves still doesn't appeal to me at all. For an introduction set these particular armies are a wrong choice, Imo.

Actually, if the elves don't have enormous faces or hands and come with a decent set of archers, I will most likely buy a box. And probably keep the Skaven, one day filling them out to an army in their own right. I'm not in need of an introduction to fantasy, but it would change this customer from half-heartedly collecting one army to collecting 3.

High Elves desperately need new standards. And it is always nice to make those 100 Skaven clan rats and slaves not only from that one plastic box. Although new night runners are needed even more. Personal preferences aside (I like both races), those army choices are not bad: Who actually wants to field a goblin army ... with the current army book??

No need for any salt - all 6 of them have been well-rumored before.

10 wide for a rank bonus? That makes no sense.

Fantasy seems to be more balanced than 40k.
A new edition is always welcome.
What will be in the starter box?

Woah... more balanced than 40k? I beg to differ but lets not get into that on this thread...

I however will probably quit the game if these rumors are true (and I can garentee there is a ton of people who will do the exact same thing). I can understand if they are trying to sell more models, but that is definitely not the way to do it in my opinion. I hope they rethink this through if they seriosuly think this will make the game (and sales for that matter) better...