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SKR.HH wrote: Oh sorry. I didn't know that any comments about the KS experience and a critical assessment of quality are not allowed here.
I don't get why YOU are attacking me from telling about MY experience to inform OTHERS. Yes, I'm critical of the quality. I'm paying quite a high price for such models and according are my standards!
Share your experience. Let others decide who is right... But I won't certainly stop voicing my experience!
I'm not saying you cant express frustration. I've said a 100 times now I was frustrated with it. Everyone here agrees they screwed up. No one is denying that.
What I am questioning is why the continued hate for it after you have received your items. throwing statements on questioning if they will even ship the rest is ridiculous.
I personally will never back another hawk KS if they ever do one again, but I don't go around forums saying over and over how horrible it all is.
I'm sorry. I might have misinterpreted the sentence about 'not getting their pledge'. I assumed this was supposed to be at the point of time where I send the mail.
I agree that it is most likely that people still waiting will get their packages (outside the "usual" hickups with postal services).
I think the contentious matter here is the accusation that they wouldn't deliver at all or are throwing up smokescreens to avoid sending pledges. When you step back from the "I don't have my stuff" or "It took vastly longer than was reasonable to get it compared to everyone else" viewpoint, the underlying idea that they would provide the promised product to 90%+ of backers and then abandon the remainder doesn't make any sense.
Not sending product to anyone? Sure, that's the blueprint of a plain old scam. Sending out the first wave of a project and then not sending out the later waves? Okay, we've seen that happen with myriad projects. Send out the exact same products to the overwhelming majority of the backers and retail, but then refuse to send those same products to a select sub-group? I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask for other examples of that occurring because I don't recall seeing that ever happen. While you can claim there's a first time for everything, it's going to require a much higher burden of proof when there's other explanations about (such as, Hawk cocked up royally which is far simpler and fits the circumstances).
In terms of the product, I wouldn't go so far as to say "the end-all of spaceship models" but they are reasonably easy to work with and look nice once assembled. The San Francisco issue mentioned mirrors my own experience, and it's doubly unfortunate that the class is going to be quite common in lists for obvious reasons. I also strongly dislike some of the gates on the PHR ships, cruisers in particular. While they're not going to revolutionize the market forevermore, they are also far from the level of "crap shoved out to satisfy the contract" that you can see in many, many other KS projects.
As Bob said, this is far from the worst KS we as a community have seen. It's actually in the scope of things reasonably good for the majority of people on the project. The shame is that the problems Hawk DOES have with getting the last bits out the door are entirely of their own making and need not have happened at all.
And while their quality is admittedly (way) above average it is certainly not stellar. So far I built the UCM ships (--> Yes I decided to keep at least the UCM and Scourge) and I was actually disappointed by certain design choices. Some examples: I was not able to cut the gun turrets from the sprues without damaging because the connection to the frames is in the middle of the cannon muzzle (?). And the design of the compartment for the troop compartment leaves recognizable gaps that make me cringe everytime I look at the ship. So much to do to get this to a good standard.
As to the quality, your just nitpicking to nitpick. Its multi part plastic models. I know a few people who have UCM and have had no assembly problems with the turrets or gaps issues. Seems like its a builder error.
The gates on the turrets aren't well-placed, the San Fran modules don't go well together at all (especially the inner bay on the bottom). The same applies to the gates on the PHR Cruiser bodies, their location is very unfortunate - and oddly enough again the troop modules bottom bay aren't lining up well at all. Not a single one of these issues is a "builder error" but just how the sprues are done. I assume they HAD to place the gates there for some reason, but it's unfortunate.
Krinsath wrote: Send out the exact same products to the overwhelming majority of the backers and retail, but then refuse to send those same products to a select sub-group? I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask for other examples of that occurring because I don't recall seeing that ever happen.
Actually happened to me twice but outside miniature/games campaigns. Well, without the retail part.
And while their quality is admittedly (way) above average it is certainly not stellar. So far I built the UCM ships (--> Yes I decided to keep at least the UCM and Scourge) and I was actually disappointed by certain design choices. Some examples: I was not able to cut the gun turrets from the sprues without damaging because the connection to the frames is in the middle of the cannon muzzle (?). And the design of the compartment for the troop compartment leaves recognizable gaps that make me cringe everytime I look at the ship. So much to do to get this to a good standard.
As to the quality, your just nitpicking to nitpick. Its multi part plastic models. I know a few people who have UCM and have had no assembly problems with the turrets or gaps issues. Seems like its a builder error.
The gates on the turrets aren't well-placed, the San Fran modules don't go well together at all (especially the inner bay on the bottom). The same applies to the gates on the PHR Cruiser bodies, their location is very unfortunate - and oddly enough again the troop modules bottom bay aren't lining up well at all. Not a single one of these issues is a "builder error" but just how the sprues are done. I assume they HAD to place the gates there for some reason, but it's unfortunate.
Jep... Turrets on the frigates sprue should have been turned by 90 degree (like on the cruiser sprue) to remedy this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/18 14:23:17
Krinsath wrote: Send out the exact same products to the overwhelming majority of the backers and retail, but then refuse to send those same products to a select sub-group? I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask for other examples of that occurring because I don't recall seeing that ever happen.
Actually happened to me twice but outside miniature/games campaigns. Well, without the retail part.
So...it didn't actually happen then? The fact that you can buy things from retailers is both a sign that the situation is fundamentally different from what you're describing, and doubly infuriating for those affected since clearly it's not a shortage of product that's the problem. Not that an ordering shortage would be somehow excusable mind you, just that not having the goods to send would move it into an entirely different scenario where the worry of non-fulfillment has a great deal more traction.
SKR.HH wrote: Jep... Turrets on the frigates sprue should have been turned by 90 degree (like on the cruiser sprue) to remedy this.
I'm not sure I recall having issues with the frigate turrets. I vaguely remember the first one I removed bending the barrels but then I cut the gates in a certain order and don't recall any others doing anything strange. What issues are you guys finding? Perhaps I'm just not as detail-oriented and overlooked that I've wrecked them all.
Also repeating myself but it's needed because I *hate* this particular gate with a passion: the one on top of the PHR cruisers at the front. I hate that one.
I haven't built any PHR yet, but the Shaltari definitely have some poor gate placement. They also seem to be the trickiest to line up all the parts on correctly. Stupid scalene weapons triangle.
Anyway, for quality, these are still easily the best spaceship minis for gaming and/or of their size in the Western world. Battlefleet Gothic had some great plastics, but they are showing their age. Halo Fleet Battles' plastics have similar issues to the DFC ones, except that the frigates are tiny and disappointing, the detail is lacking due to a focus on ease of construction over aesthetics, there are no options or extras on the sprues, and the designs themselves are just not as interesting. Plus, HFB ships seem far more expensive, especially if you use the spare DFC bits to make corvettes, corvettes larger than HFB frigates. Firestorm Armada has no plastic ships, and all of my experiences with their resin lead me to consider them pricey junk.
Are there better spaceship minis? Yes. The new Bandai Mecha Colle are the Platonic ideal of what a plastic spaceship should be, and they are cheaper than DFC ships of a similar size. The only problem is that they are limited to one build that is difficult to covert and has a particular aesthetic that may not suit everyone. Also, they have no frigate are corvette sized minis since they are built to a size and not to scale.
In the end, though, the DFC ships are the undisputed champions when it comes to making a beautiful fleet with variety for a reasonable price. I can't foresee buying any more HFB or resin brand X's or scale models to convert in the near future when my money and hobby enjoyment will go so much farther with the DFC ship sprues.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/18 15:55:46
Ive built/painted over 4000 points worth of PHR for DFC. While the injection line on the flat curved part isn't the best spot, I use a sharp blade and remove any sprue my clippers don't get and only takes a few seconds.
Also done 4000 worth of shaltari, and 1500 of scourge. I dunno, im not having issues with where it connects. Any kind of gaps are not there after its painted.
Friend got Toooons of HFB in its recent 50% off all products from Spartan sale, so got to see it painted up. It looks cool, but no where near as nice as DFC. Armada, Firestorm, HFB, BFG are all sub par on quality to DFC.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I haven't built any PHR yet, but the Shaltari definitely have some poor gate placement. They also seem to be the trickiest to line up all the parts on correctly. Stupid scalene weapons triangle.
Anyway, for quality, these are still easily the best spaceship minis for gaming and/or of their size in the Western world. Battlefleet Gothic had some great plastics, but they are showing their age. Halo Fleet Battles' plastics have similar issues to the DFC ones, except that the frigates are tiny and disappointing, the detail is lacking due to a focus on ease of construction over aesthetics, there are no options or extras on the sprues, and the designs themselves are just not as interesting. Plus, HFB ships seem far more expensive, especially if you use the spare DFC bits to make corvettes, corvettes larger than HFB frigates. Firestorm Armada has no plastic ships, and all of my experiences with their resin lead me to consider them pricey junk.
Are there better spaceship minis? Yes. The new Bandai Mecha Colle are the Platonic ideal of what a plastic spaceship should be, and they are cheaper than DFC ships of a similar size. The only problem is that they are limited to one build that is difficult to covert and has a particular aesthetic that may not suit everyone. Also, they have no frigate are corvette sized minis since they are built to a size and not to scale.
In the end, though, the DFC ships are the undisputed champions when it comes to making a beautiful fleet with variety for a reasonable price. I can't foresee buying any more HFB or resin brand X's or scale models to convert in the near future when my money and hobby enjoyment will go so much farther with the DFC ship sprues.
Please refer to the attached Picture depicting the connection between cannon and frame on the frigate sprue.
I was not able to remove the turret properly without cutting somewhat into the gun barrel/muzzle due to the thick connection on the middle barrel.
Now compare this to the Placement on the cruiser sprue:
This was way better solved in my oppinion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/18 16:02:39
I'm not disagreeing. I was just saying the Shaltari tiny teeth gates were worse, giving me a fleet of hockey players. (Potentially, since I only have one Shaltari cruiser and a battlecruiser. But I plan to expand.)
For the frigate turrets, I've been clipping the sides and then twisting the turrets to break the barrel gates. It's not a perfect solution, but I didn't end up clipping off the tips of the side barrels that way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/18 16:07:36
This thread is in News & Rumors to discuss developments on Dropzone / Dropfleet / anything pertaining to Hawk Wargames new releases or news for their games.
Many posters have expressed their take on the Kickstarter, but please refrain from going back and forth about it repeatedly (no matter your take), as that's not the purpose of this news thread. Additionally, while posts about model quality are fine, an in-depth discussion belongs elsewhere.
If anyone would like to start a new thread in the Misc Games section for more in-depth model discussion, please do so and link to it here!
So, with that, let's return to discussing any new developments on either of these games, or Kickstarter fulfillment. Thanks all
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/01/18 16:13:54
I just realized you might be saying you think the poor turret gates bring down the DFC quality below that of a competitor. I haven't seen a plastic spaceship kit yet that doesn't have at least one glaringly stupid gate attachment.
Whoops, sorry!
Does anyone know when the official minis of the battle cruisers and corvettes drop? For that matter, when do the space station sprues hit retail?
As for the fluff, supposedly there are two more factions due to present themselves in the next phase or two.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/18 16:13:20
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I just realized you might be saying you think the poor turret gates bring down the DFC quality below that of a competitor. I haven't seen a plastic spaceship kit yet that doesn't have at least one glaringly stupid gate attachment.
Whoops, sorry!
Does anyone know when the official minis of the battle cruisers and corvettes drop? For that matter, when do the space station sprues hit retail?
As for the fluff, supposedly there are two more factions due to present themselves in the next phase or two.
Battlecruisers = who knows
Frigate box and 2 Cruiser box is the 20th of this month released
Space station has been out for over a month retail.
Corvettes are more likely Feb March
I knew one faction was coming to both games, didn't know it was 2
I might have conflated one faction to both games as two factions. Speculation seems to be an AI race and some kind of advanced foe skulking around the Shaltari. But those aren't high quality rumors or anything.
As soon as my KDM budget crisis is resolved, I'm going to have to get that station kit. How many sprues in it, again?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and thanks!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/18 18:36:15
Barrels, well you need a different cutter then, had no problems getting them off the sprue. You jast had too look how to cut best, but that can happen to you with nearly all plastic sprues and smaller bits. You need to clip away a bit away from the connection and later clip directly at the gun.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/01/23 12:34:10
Got mine a couple of weeks ago. I stood staring at the box for a minute, wondering what it was, 'til I saw the Hawk logos on the tape.
Might be an indication of how long it took to arrive, but frankly, I forgot about it not long after the KS ended. I knew it'd take a while, even without the inevitable delays and hiccups from a big gaming kickstarter, and it'd get here when it got here. To expect much else, viewing KS as simply a preorder service, wringing your hands as you watch the clock, and especially after seeing all the roaring, fist-shaking, and cries of 'never ever' in other KS threads here, is well... Hofstadter's Law, guys.
And for tiny awkward pieces like those turrets, use a knife, not clippers, for the tricky bits.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/01/23 14:50:45
I used to feel like anyone who whined about this campaign could just suck it up because I didn't have my pledge yet. Then I got my pledge and went, "ok, we're there. Everyone will be satisfied shortly." Now I have my first ever fully painted army (any gaming system ever) in front of me and some people are still waiting?
Absolute insanity. A turtle could out-paint me. Insanity.
For posterity sake, and a great post mortem down the road, for those still without their pledge, early or late backer? Do you have an exact date of your pledge?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/10 09:02:38
Hawk's latest Kickstarter update addressed many things, including an update of where they are on shipping, pledges, a new website, and the first installment in a new series of videos documenting the creation of the 10mm scale Avenger!
Dave says that the series will be twenty videos in total, with two being released every week. Well worth a watch! Their YouTube channel has suddenly sprung to life after over three years of hibernation, which is nice to see. Hopefully they might put out more content on there in the future!
In a way it's a nice step back in time, as it must have been a couple of years ago now when Dave started this. Very interestingly, he mentions that the initial launch of Dropzone required more work, which is hard to believe when you see the pile of resin on the table before him! Truly awesome stuff...
The update states that they have learnt a lot in regards to the whole Kickstarter process. It seems as though I was fortunate with my pledge, and it is a shame to hear some of the stories that some of you folks have posted. I must admit that I was prepared for anything to happen to my mine, having heard tale of other KS woes.
This is a legitimate question and not meant to derail this thread. But is there any DZC news? This thread used to be for both of Hawk's games. Obviously they have been very focused on releasing this new game, which is best. But I was wondering if we have any info on DZC. There is no other thread for that game at the moment. Thanks
"I am happy to confirm we have some news to look forward to this year, and it's got me pumped!"
And...
"The only other rumour I can bring you, kind of, is the following series of avatars on display, including a Scourge warrior being penned by the very talented Mr Patrice at the event. These avatars are for... well, I can't tell you that, but they're for something exciting!"
Every race included! Could this be concepts for a skirmish-level Dropzone universe game? I hope so!
Two more videos are up for the Building the Avenger series:
The next video will see Dave building all of the Condors and such. It is apparent that a massive amount of thought went into this project. His determination is inspiring!
I really doubt they'll be planning another game so soon after DFC. They are still a VERY small company after all, they can't afford to stretch themselves too thin. Seems like they nearly killed themselves fulfilling the DFCKS.
The fact that you can buy things from retailers is both a sign that the situation is fundamentally different from what you're describing, and doubly infuriating for those affected since clearly it's not a shortage of product that's the problem. Not that an ordering shortage would be somehow excusable mind you, just that not having the goods to send would move it into an entirely different scenario where the worry of non-fulfillment has a great deal more traction.
I hate that one.
Necrons - 3000 pts
HH Imperial Militia/Cults - 1000 points Check out my P&M blog! (
Bretonnia - 4500 pts
