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rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
Conversion Beamers.
S10 AP1 Heavy 1 Blast at 42" range to 72" range.
Have fun.


/enddiscussion

Good choice, but does it ignore a cover save? Does it require line of site?

Well for gak like Wraithknights, LoS isnt the problem, also, stick the Techmarine in an LR with Servitors to give cover/backup shooty.
Blast ignores cover IIRC?

Don't you think it'd be a bit overpowered if ALL blasts completely ignored cover? You most likely confused templates with blasts, templates do ignore cover.

This list is actually not very good at all. And if you think the culexus without a droppod, or flyer, or some kind oi sturdy transport will make a difference you are delusional.

You have little chance against an Eldar seer council list, Necron Decurion with a DCult, or any daemon list. (Like the one I brought to ATC)

 Lord Commissar wrote:
This list is actually not very good at all. And if you think the culexus without a droppod, or flyer, or some kind oi sturdy transport will make a difference you are delusional.

You have little chance against an Eldar seer council list, Necron Decurion with a DCult, or any daemon list. (Like the one I brought to ATC)

Idk if we play the same game. I've played this army against eldar, necrons and Daemons and I've had great successes, eldar against eldar is a rock paper scissors type game, necrons I handle very well, hemlocks reck necrons and I'd love to play your daemons, what are you going to do when I castle in a corner with the assassin sitting in front of my army, you really underestimate the power this list has. But if your confident in your army all the power to you, maybe you'll play me at a event, there's still a few this year ( depending on where you live)

 Lord Commissar wrote:
This list is actually not very good at all. And if you think the culexus without a droppod, or flyer, or some kind oi sturdy transport will make a difference you are delusional.

You have little chance against an Eldar seer council list, Necron Decurion with a DCult, or any daemon list. (Like the one I brought to ATC)

Yo, Lord, mind PMing me your Daemons list? I'm always looking for new ways to make the unreal hordes work.

Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

what are "1 or both stars" ?

Tsilber wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

what are "1 or both stars" ?

Plague Star or Screamer Star presumably.

I was more interested to see if his list wasn't that actually.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

what are "1 or both stars" ?

Plague Star or Screamer Star presumably.

I was more interested to see if his list wasn't that actually.

Pretty much every competitive daemon list has either 1 or both

God this thread makes me heave.

Let's put this particular dog down, shall we?

Dman137 wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

what are "1 or both stars" ?

Plague Star or Screamer Star presumably.

I was more interested to see if his list wasn't that actually.

Pretty much every competitive daemon list has either 1 or both

Or variations of belakor and or fateweaver with the standard 30 summoning horrors backed with either the stars or flying princes and maybe dogs. Its a pain in the ass army.

Dman137 wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:
On a side note I read Da boyz is doing highlander style so you may need to revisit your build to meet the comp.

I saw yesterday, there's a lot of people pretty upset about it

Have you ever even been to Da Boyz? Or spoken to a living person who has been to Da Boyz? Are "a lot of people" you and the random Daemon players you've somehow been beating with a foot Culexus?

Because saying that people who attend Da Boyz are upset about Highlander rules is hilarious. Da Boyz is, and always has been, the most heavily comped tournament of the year. Highlander is a huge step down from what they usually do in terms of comp (their army construction rules are generally a multi-page document).

People attend Da Boyz because it's so different, and because the guys run a really fun event (at a stupidly amazing location, by the way). We were actually all shocked that they did let us take multiples of units last year....and then they wrote two different missions that crotch-punched you for actually taking multiples of units. Lesson learned!

Literally everything else in this thread is too ridiculous to even comment on; I just found it hilarious that "a lot of people" are upset about comp at Da Boyz. That's gold.

Just played that list with 4 knights I lost 2 he lost everything. I laugh at eldar. But harlicuins scare me haha.

Deathmachine wrote:
Just played that list with 4 knights I lost 2 he lost everything. I laugh at eldar. But harlicuins scare me haha.

Do you mean he had 4 Wraithknights, or that you had 4 Imperial Knights?

Deathmachine wrote:
Just played that list with 4 knights I lost 2 he lost everything. I laugh at eldar. But harlicuins scare me haha.

that's shocking since I played a game the other weak against nights (he had 3, with that +1 formation to the armour) and I tabled him. And I still had pretty much my whole army left. Lost 2 or 3 small bike squads and a d-cannon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DJ3 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:
On a side note I read Da boyz is doing highlander style so you may need to revisit your build to meet the comp.

I saw yesterday, there's a lot of people pretty upset about it

Have you ever even been to Da Boyz? Or spoken to a living person who has been to Da Boyz? Are "a lot of people" you and the random Daemon players you've somehow been beating with a foot Culexus?

Because saying that people who attend Da Boyz are upset about Highlander rules is hilarious. Da Boyz is, and always has been, the most heavily comped tournament of the year. Highlander is a huge step down from what they usually do in terms of comp (their army construction rules are generally a multi-page document).

People attend Da Boyz because it's so different, and because the guys run a really fun event (at a stupidly amazing location, by the way). We were actually all shocked that they did let us take multiples of units last year....and then they wrote two different missions that crotch-punched you for actually taking multiples of units. Lesson learned!

Literally everything else in this thread is too ridiculous to even comment on; I just found it hilarious that "a lot of people" are upset about comp at Da Boyz. That's gold.

Highlander is just lazy comp plain and simple.

Dman137 wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

what are "1 or both stars" ?

Plague Star or Screamer Star presumably.

I was more interested to see if his list wasn't that actually.

Pretty much every competitive daemon list has either 1 or both

Not true

Ravenous D wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Daemons aren't hard you just take 1 or both stars and just stop sucking at dice when it comes to grimoire and casting.

what are "1 or both stars" ?

Plague Star or Screamer Star presumably.

I was more interested to see if his list wasn't that actually.

Pretty much every competitive daemon list has either 1 or both

Or variations of belakor and or fateweaver with the standard 30 summoning horrors backed with either the stars or flying princes and maybe dogs. Its a pain in the ass army.

Not true. Some run no screamers or drone star, and at the same time no fateweaver or multiple flying dp's, and still have success.

DJ3 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:
On a side note I read Da boyz is doing highlander style so you may need to revisit your build to meet the comp.

I saw yesterday, there's a lot of people pretty upset about it

Have you ever even been to Da Boyz? Or spoken to a living person who has been to Da Boyz? Are "a lot of people" you and the random Daemon players you've somehow been beating with a foot Culexus?

Because saying that people who attend Da Boyz are upset about Highlander rules is hilarious. Da Boyz is, and always has been, the most heavily comped tournament of the year. Highlander is a huge step down from what they usually do in terms of comp (their army construction rules are generally a multi-page document).

People attend Da Boyz because it's so different, and because the guys run a really fun event (at a stupidly amazing location, by the way). We were actually all shocked that they did let us take multiples of units last year....and then they wrote two different missions that crotch-punched you for actually taking multiples of units. Lesson learned!

Literally everything else in this thread is too ridiculous to even comment on; I just found it hilarious that "a lot of people" are upset about comp at Da Boyz. That's gold.

Considering this is the same guy responsible for this gem: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661035.page and ongoing trolling here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661482.page I think we can see a pattern emerging.

Posts nothing but Scatbike spam in the army lists section (bonus points for claiming that Eldar have no other options! ), then suddenly has a revelation and posts...the exact same army list that everyone expects out of an Eldar powergamer/cheesemonger. I think we're done here.

Dman137 wrote:Highlander is just lazy comp plain and simple.

Highlander is great if you aren't allergic to fun. It's probably the only workable comp system in the game: take only one of anything. Sure, it ends up favoring some armies more than others, but it at least gets people to think creatively about list building instead of just mindlessly spamming the same OP units. A pity it doesn't really work above 1000 points.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Dman137 wrote:Highlander is just lazy comp plain and simple.

Highlander is great if you aren't allergic to fun. It's probably the only workable comp system in the game: take only one of anything. Sure, it ends up favoring some armies more than others but it at least gets people to think creatively about list building instead of just mindlessly spamming the same OP units. A pity it doesn't really work above 1000 points.

Favours some armies more than others. Every comp system does that. Highlander is just lazy as hell, so many things sneak under the radar it circumvents the "fun" of having a army you would never use in any other format, what you call creative I call taking tax units to pad your death star. Da Boyz have been around long enough they might as well just do a dex by dex restrictions list. And even then the top guys will just take what works best in that scenario.

You're just going to see the Immortal stompa, bunkerpult cents, the typical 4-6 units in the daemon dex and bizarre ass eldar combos most likely abusing the aspect host + wraithknight/hemlocks/seer council. Plus we got Tau in a few weeks and if the trend keeps going its going to be cranked to 11. The first thing you need to honest with yourself over is that 75% of all tournament goers are goob players who are complete non contenders and totally irrelevant to the outcome of the event, last year I fought a bare plastic army and the guy was playing like he actually had a shot. Losing a single game at Da Boyz is basically lights out short of having something that is beautifully painted.

I generally dislike comp as it causes far more balance issues than it ever solves, it also goes against what 7th Ed is trying to be about. If comp was an attempt to balance all codexes then you need to go through nearly every unit in every codex. Highlander is my least favourite comp as it throws certain codexes in the bin whilst not hurting at all some too tier builds (most deathstar builds are fine and War Convoc gets a huge boon). It doesn't make for more intelligent or varied list building it just kills a bunch of options and codexes. I also see comp as contrary to the entire point of a tournament.

Whilst to be fair to him I don't really see those 2 posts as trolling. The language might be incendiary and poorly constructed but lets be honest the guy is probably mud to late teens (hence his inability to use the word "then").

He had a point to an extent in both. Firstly people should reduce their fear and hatred of the Eldar codex. Secondly fixing it is relatively simple 100 points on the Wraithknight is fair (not the ludicrous over estimates in the thread) and increase the cost of weapons on jetbikes to 15 points and you're done. It is then in line with Marines, Necrons and Knights.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I generally dislike comp as it causes far more balance issues than it ever solves, it also goes against what 7th Ed is trying to be about. If comp was an attempt to balance all codexes then you need to go through nearly every unit in every codex. Highlander is my least favourite comp as it throws certain codexes in the bin whilst not hurting at all some too tier builds (most deathstar builds are fine and War Convoc gets a huge boon). It doesn't make for more intelligent or varied list building it just kills a bunch of options and codexes. I also see comp as contrary to the entire point of a tournament.

I have always found it rather arrogant and unlikely to think that a few gamers without any large scale play testing would be able to create a better inter-codex balance than what GW gives us.

Sure Eldar is on top right now (and since 2013 May is it ?), but even if you'd limit Eldar, you'd have a top dog, who'd inevitably also have a 5% lead on the others, etc. ...

In my opinion, it's just better to leave the game alone, power variance generates meta shifts and that makes competitive play more interesting - now that GW updates codex at a reasonable pace I think it really isn't so bad.

I did expect my Eldar to be nerfed, not to be told to buy 9 Vaul's Wrath and 30 Jetbikes instead.

most GT's comp are organized by very experienced players...
And people show up to those tourneys.
Which sparks smaller tourney T.O.s whether experienced or not to follow suit, for better turn outs.

I'm sorry Dman but reading your posts makes me cringe as a teacher. Use spell check, maybe a capital letter or a period every once in awhile. Context is key - there, they're and their aren't all the same dude.

Can we stop saying Eldar is on top? How many GT's have they won this year? ZERO. Do they have strong units? Yes. Are they invincible? NO! I took my Eldar to the Iron Halo GT and placed 13th. There is NO unbeatable list in the dice game we play, or it would win every tournament, every time. Stop trying to break the game and enjoy it.

Castellan Alaric wrote:
I'm sorry Dman but reading your posts makes me cringe as a teacher. Use spell check, maybe a capital letter or a period every once in awhile. Context is key - there, they're and their aren't all the same dude.

Can we stop saying Eldar is on top? How many GT's have they won this year? ZERO. Do they have strong units? Yes. Are they invincible? NO! I took my Eldar to the Iron Halo GT and placed 13th. There is NO unbeatable list in the dice game we play, or it would win every tournament, every time. Stop trying to break the game and enjoy it.

Good Points

My daemon list was also just an example, I can think of several other lists that have a higher chance winning than losing against you. Current seerstar for example is alive and well just to name another (Imo better) eldar list. '

My daemons do indeed use a screamerstar. As well as 2 large squads of khorne hounds. I did very well at ATC with it, 3rd to be precise.

Castellan Alaric wrote:
I'm sorry Dman but reading your posts makes me cringe as a teacher. Use spell check, maybe a capital letter or a period every once in awhile. Context is key - there, they're and their aren't all the same dude.

As a teacher can you tell when "than" was removed from the American dictionary? It is still a part of English but seems to have gone completely from this site and BoLS, Feit212 etc, Warseer etc

 FlingitNow wrote:

Castellan Alaric wrote:
I'm sorry Dman but reading your posts makes me cringe as a teacher. Use spell check, maybe a capital letter or a period every once in awhile. Context is key - there, they're and their aren't all the same dude.

As a teacher can you tell when "than" was removed from the American dictionary? It is still a part of English but seems to have gone completely from this site and BoLS, Feit212 etc, Warseer etc

One of the reasons, even though I don't play Tau anymore, I love AdvancedTauTactica is that they have a VERY high standard for grammar and actually having your posts mean something, instead of like the OP has done several times - *this list crushes all* and walking away without much explanation of how or why. Anywho, just a pet peeve I guess. Nobody is perfect, myself included, but reading his posts is sometimes painful.

 Lord Commissar wrote:
My daemons do indeed use a screamerstar. As well as 2 large squads of khorne hounds. I did very well at ATC with it, 3rd to be precise.

I was wondering what beat me out for that sweet, sweet plastic Daemon medal.

Weren't you on one of the Orlando teams? I think we played Skull N Bonez but they didn't have a Daemon player; I played Marc's Seer Council that round. Where'd you guys finish up, and were they using you mostly as an attacker or defender?

We actually didn't play against many Daemons that weekend and I was curious how others were using them.

I was the captain of the most "modest" of the OH Orlando teams. Generally, I made my list to be an allcomer list with a few caveats of "If they have this, drop this person instead" etc. I was dropped first twice iirc. The meta of ATC really caught us off guard.

DId you end up beating Marc? If so, that's impressive.

One word "forgeworld"

Stalked21 wrote:
One word "forgeworld"

Technically "Forge World" is always spelled as two separate words.
Also technically all their products are spelled in UPPERCASE.

Castellan Alaric wrote:
I'm sorry Dman but reading your posts makes me cringe as a teacher. Use spell check, maybe a capital letter or a period every once in awhile. Context is key - there, they're and their aren't all the same dude.

Can we stop saying Eldar is on top? How many GT's have they won this year? ZERO. Do they have strong units? Yes. Are they invincible? NO! I took my Eldar to the Iron Halo GT and placed 13th. There is NO unbeatable list in the dice game we play, or it would win every tournament, every time. Stop trying to break the game and enjoy it.

People saying any list is unbeatable are flat out wrong, yes. The issue with eldar is that while the other top table lists are getting there using mainly formations bonuses that will probably cease to exist in their next book, the eldar get to those same tables with just a CAD and awesome unit quality. Unless their next book is drastically different, that's probably not going anywhere.

13th out of 40 is still high enough that I'd say you're in the area where top table lists fall when they have a couple bad important rolls, like a bad game end roll or not getting the proper turn order against another hard list. Alternatively it may have involved player mistakes. I had a guy make me go first, then seize initiative on my battleco at a recent event when he really shouldn't have. That list of mine loves going 2nd. Lastly bad matchups happen too. You might've caught someone who came listed mainly for eldar. Anyone who goes probably 4-2 or higher in my opinion could have won 1st place in a slightly alternate dimension with the same list.

Also I feel the need to point out that you weren't the highest eldar list there. There were a few above you, and one came in 2nd after JUST BARELY losing his last game. He had some bs happen like his warlord running off the table from a standard morale for losing one bike, and two warp spider squads that kept mishapping back into reserve, one of them failing to EVER make it into the game. I should know, I was there. :p