Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

i am thinking about including a chosen squad for my khorne list. i want the squad to be anti tank and close combat orientated.

i wanna try to keep the cost as low as possible so this is what i came up with, feel free to rip the squad apart and give me better suggestions.

5x chosen - 205
champion
power fist
2x power weapons
2x melta guns
Icon of Khorne

Personally I think that chosen make great special weapons platforms, not assault troops (with 5 I think that is a bit suicidal for 205pts). You can take up to 5 so why waste time/points on other things? Load them up with 3-5 meltas/flamers/plasma and infiltrate/outflank them and take out key units early on.

Once again I am agreeing with Halsfield...I should just copy and paste that line.

Your opponent has an LR. You have a squad of 5 Chosen with 4 Meltas and a Combi-Melta. They Infiltrate. The LR Takes 5 Meltagun Shots. It is wrecked.

Not only are you 110pts up (assuming the chosen do nothing else) but your opponents Lightning Claw / TH/SS Termies are now footslogging 36' across the board onto your oblits, CSM and Khorne-Knows-What-Else.

Epic Win? I think so.

Halsfield should just sig you Madgod.
___________________

I think more bodies in the squad would be preferable to get some more mileage out of them.
Weight of fire could kill some one important.

With true line of sight, (highly dependent on gaming group terrain), Chosen even at 5 members could find it hard to infiltrate close enough to make the most of their meltas.

If they infiltrate 18", they move 6" and would still be out of range.
Remember they infiltrate MORE THAN 18" or MORE THAN 12".
So even if 12" was pulled off, you would not get 2D6.

The only way you get to wreck the LR would be to infitlrate an unlikely 12" away and shoot it, hopefully rolling a 6 to glance then to roll a 4+, OOOORRRR the opponent knowingly moves towards the chosen and allows 5 meltas up the tailpipe of the LR....

My 7 Cents.

well my thinking is that if you blow up said land raider, whats going to happen if those terminators assault you? my main opponents are orks and eldar, so i don't need to be popp'in land raiders, thats what i use >

so i guess i should re-word this to whats the best loadout for a chosen squad against eldar and orks?

What's going to happen after the LR is destroyed....as Sneezypanda said, move + charge + consolidate = more distance they have moved than if in the LR.

As for vs. eldar and orks...first thing you want to decide: rhino or not?
On foot: flamers don't work well, meltas don't work well due to the way one infiltrates.
So it ends up as a plasma spam.

Combat weapons don't make sense for an infiltrating squad unless the opponent is stupid or rolls like he wants to lose. Basically you'll never get into a meamingful combat with them.

A rhino opens up possibilities. If you just put them on the board and drive forward go with havocs. If you use outflank then go with chosen.

Now ALL of the special shooty weapons have a place now.
Combat weapons are still questionable.

The beauty of special weapons is that they are very much the all-comers... what ever you take will be useful...flamers are good against both Eldar and Orks, but Eldar most likely be meched up so AT weapons are desirable as well, but meltas lose a bit vs. WS, but are still a good choicce on rhino squads, meltas are just really good vs. orc hordes, esp. the 4-5 mulitple templates.

My 7 Cents.

Sneezypanda wrote:well my thinking is that if you blow up said land raider, whats going to happen if those terminators assault you?

Serious? Who Cares! It was a suicide unit of chosen designed to destroy an expensive vehicle! You just killed an LR with 140pts of chosen! And I think youll find that the termies wont move as far in the long run especially if they move sideways or backwards to your chosen squad.

And against Orks and Eldar?

Orks - 4 Flamers and a Combi-Flamer for only 120pts! Tear apart a 30man boys squad easily.

Eldar - Prolly 5 Plasma Guns 165 pts with 10 S7 Ap2 Shots per turn if you rapid fire. Annihilates a whole squad of Reapers or Dire Avengers or Fire Dragons.


But again for anti tank 5 meltas will annihilate anything orks or eldar can use.

The list I used for Baltimore 08 included two squads of the following:

5 Chosen CSM, w/3 Flamers, 2 Meltaguns = 125, In Rhino = 35

I pretty much always outflanked with them. This meant that I had one or both squads show up on turn two 75% of the time.

Combined with Lash, they absolutely brutalized Orks, though honestly, that many flamers deals an absolute mess of wounds to just about anything. The Meltaguns kept them flexible and able to poptanks if needed.

The only downfall of the units was in KP missions. Even if I wiped out the target unit, odds were that a good opponent could kill both my rhino and the little 5 man chosen squad in return. That's not a recipe for success in KPs.

OTOH, I think it might work a little better with a generally more-assualty list. Mine is a mixed shooty-assaulty mechanized lashy thing, so when the chosen showed up early I usually didn't have a lot else right up in my opponent's face. If you were using Chosen squads like that in a list focusing more on driving berserkers and plague marines down your opponent's throat, you might find the Chosen a little more survivable.

10 chosen with a CC loadout with any Icon, in a land raider. Since your land raiders only have a transport capacity of 10, it doesn't hurt to put non-terminators in them, because you're not wasting slots.

Why not just get terminators Saanguine Sympathy?
Why not just get zerkers?

I think those 2 options would be more efficient pointwise and just general usage in a LR.

My 7 Cents.

Sanctjud wrote:Why not just get terminators Saanguine Sympathy?
Why not just get zerkers?

I think those 2 options would be more efficient pointwise and just general usage in a LR.

My 7 Cents.

QFT. I see chosen more as a POP THERE GOES YOUR LANDRAIDER WAHAHAHAHA! kind of unit. As I said before

Theres a reason Chosen can infiltrate and stuff....it's so they can appear with 5 special weapons and own expensive units/vehicles with Plasma and Melta.

Infiltrating with 5 Plasmaguns is awesome.

7 Man Squad w/
4 Plasma Guns
Lightning Claws
Icon of Chaos Glory

216 points of Hurt.

A good tactic with chosen is infiltrating/outflanking 5 of em in a rhino. Load up on 3-4 meltaguns. Just move 6, and pop vehicles out of the top! sure, your using a rhino for a small squad. but its perfect for tank hunting, and (with luck or good rolls) your chosen will stick around for a bit. One game (with luck) I dropped a LR, rhino, and 3 bikers before they killed the rhino and chosen. Def worth it!

Just a bit confused as to why you would take 4 meltas and combi-melta when you can take 5 meltas for the same price. Ditto for 4 flamers + combi-flamer vs. 5 flamers since all flamers is actually cheaper!. I could see the use of combi-plas as it's 5 points cheaper a gun and most of the time you only get one shot before dying horribly.

Am I missing something on the combi weapons?

Zid wrote:A good tactic with chosen is infiltrating/outflanking 5 of em in a rhino. Load up on 3-4 meltaguns. Just move 6, and pop vehicles out of the top! sure, your using a rhino for a small squad. but its perfect for tank hunting, and (with luck or good rolls) your chosen will stick around for a bit. One game (with luck) I dropped a LR, rhino, and 3 bikers before they killed the rhino and chosen. Def worth it!

Dedicated transports for units with infiltrate cannot infiltrate themselves, though you can use the infiltrate ability to outflank, as you mentioned. Melta guns, while they're good at blowing up land raiders, are actually bad for blowing up land raiders before the enemy disembarks his assault terminators. They get the job done, but they just do it too late to actually be game-changing. If you outflank, you have to hope that the chosen turn up on turn two, and on the correct side of the board, and that your opponent was dumb enough to leave his land raider within approx. 20" of the board edge. It's not a reliable tactic against smart opponents.

willydstyle wrote:

Zid wrote:A good tactic with chosen is infiltrating/outflanking 5 of em in a rhino. Load up on 3-4 meltaguns. Just move 6, and pop vehicles out of the top! sure, your using a rhino for a small squad. but its perfect for tank hunting, and (with luck or good rolls) your chosen will stick around for a bit. One game (with luck) I dropped a LR, rhino, and 3 bikers before they killed the rhino and chosen. Def worth it!

Dedicated transports for units with infiltrate cannot infiltrate themselves, though you can use the infiltrate ability to outflank, as you mentioned. Melta guns, while they're good at blowing up land raiders, are actually bad for blowing up land raiders before the enemy disembarks his assault terminators. They get the job done, but they just do it too late to actually be game-changing. If you outflank, you have to hope that the chosen turn up on turn two, and on the correct side of the board, and that your opponent was dumb enough to leave his land raider within approx. 20" of the board edge. It's not a reliable tactic against smart opponents.

Saddly I got lucky with the rolls, and my foe didn't see it coming (he rarely faces chaos, so he forgot we had em). I just used em for tank hunting, or in PS, to wreck things that pose threats to my bastions. I see what your saying tho.

But yeah, thats why I run em with meltas, to force disembark the nasty stuff. In PS this is key because it allows me to throw abaddon into the nasty squads before they cause a lotta damage otherwise. Heck, i finally got Typhus so I may run Abaddon/Typhus in a LR and bring em in behind the chosen rhino in Planetstrike! I love the possibilities

Like others have said, power weapons and fists are a waste. A Chosen CSM with a power weapon is 28 points. A CSM Termie is 30. The termie has a 2+ 5++ and twin linked bolter. The Chosen's main advantage is going in a Rhino. It just isn't worth it.

5 chosen, 5 meltas in a rhino with a combi-melta!

yeah, popping a landraider may get the terminators out and in a position to charge me, but that's why you support yourself! Make sure you have something to shoot those terminators when they're out, and you'll be good to go.

@Zid:
I don't know about loading up on so many meltas when the most you can shoot out of the top is 2.
You'd rather roll up, disembark the effective 3" and open up at full effect.

As for 5 man squads (with/w/o rhinos), eh... I don't know, 1 or 2 'soft' kill points just thrown into a list...I think it depends on what else is in the list for target/armor saturation.

My 7 Cents.

I think that Chosen have access to a wide variety of options that enable them to become very good at filing a specific role. because of this, it depends on what you need more of in your army for what the best loadout for chosen is. That said, I think they function best when in generally smaller units (5-8) that are highly specialized for dealing with a specific type of target. I would also make sure they have a Rhino.