Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

p53 BRB Jetbikes - "Jetbikes are the same as bikes, with the following exceptions: In the Movement phase, jetbikes can move over all other models and all terrain freely."

p76 BRB USR - Turbo-boosters* - "Controlling their bikes at such speeds takes all their concentration and skill, however, so they cannot move through difficult terrain, shoot, launch assaults or execute any other voluntary action in the same turn."

So, my question is - can jetbikes turbo-boost *over* difficult terrain (and for that matter, impassable terrain)?

While moving "through" or "over" aren't clearly defined in the rules, I do not think they would be the same.

I think that as long as you're not ending your move *in* terrain a jetbike can turboboost over intervening terrain.

Yes, you can. There have been lots of threads on the matter.

Sure. As long as they land in passable terrain that isn't dangerous?

Yep. They can move over any damn thing they please, even when turbo-boosting, but cannot end their turn in difficult or dangerous terrain, including atop impassible terrain.

Arakasi wrote:p53 BRB Jetbikes - "Jetbikes are the same as bikes, with the following exceptions: In the Movement phase, jetbikes can move over all other models and all terrain freely."

Here's a stupid follow up question and is SUPER rules-lawyer-y.

Deff-kopta, scout move. We know you can turbo-boost during your scout move, but can you ignore terrain for the scout move? As they are the same as normal bikes in that they cannot move through difficult terrain, and it's clearly NOT the movement phase.

This brings up another question then. If you lose a combat and break the kopta, it falls back 2D6 or 3D6 inches (don't have my rulebook handy), and as it's written, you cannot ignore terrain here either, as it's not the movement phase right?

RaW vs RaI....how hard would it have been for them to write "When moving" instead of "In the movement phase".

If I remember correctly, the Scout move is done as if the units were in their movement phase. Can't remember the exact wording.

As for falling back, there's something in there that specifically allows them to avoid terrain in order to fall back, but if they're about to land on models or impassible terrain, they have to move the minimum amount possible to avoid it. So if they fall back 9 inches, and 9 inches is halfway on top of an enemy model (model is 9.5 inches from where the unit started its fall back move), they move 8 inches instead.

That make sense?

Scout moves are done the same way as moves in the movement phase.

So why in the necron FAQ do they say that scarabs can't turbo boost through difficult terrain even though they too move like jet bikes?

And, does the same hold true for Destroyers or are they true jetbikes in the sense that they actually have the jetbike rule as opposed to things like scarabs and wraiths only "moving as" jetbikes?

Kevin949 wrote:So why in the necron FAQ do they say that scarabs can't turbo boost through difficult terrain even though they too move like jet bikes?

Because Games workshop are idiots who think that FAQs are the same as errata even though they say themselves the FAQs are nothing more than "House Rules".

And in any case, what applies to Necron Scarabs via an FAQ doesn't apply to anything else. It would be like using the Skaven FAQ for Blood Angels or the Ork FAQ for Eldar.

Note: This is not spam, this is criticism of Games Workshops attitude as well as answering another users question. I respectfully ask that this not be flagged as "spam" and also ask the moderation staff not to treat it as so, mainly because it isn't.

Kevin949 wrote:So why in the necron FAQ do they say that scarabs can't turbo boost through difficult terrain even though they too move like jet bikes?

And, does the same hold true for Destroyers or are they true jetbikes in the sense that they actually have the jetbike rule as opposed to things like scarabs and wraiths only "moving as" jetbikes?

Destroyers and scarabs move like jetbikes, they are not classified as jetbikes. This is why they don't get a +1 T bonus.

And where does it say they can't turbo-boost through difficult terrain? I have the Necron codex right here and I don't see it in their entry.

Whoops, you said FAQ. Disregard that.

Kevin949 wrote:And, does the same hold true for Destroyers or are they true jetbikes in the sense that they actually have the jetbike rule as opposed to things like scarabs and wraiths only "moving as" jetbikes?

If they move as Jetbikes, they use the Jetbike rules for moving. It's not that difficult.

DAMNIT NINJA EDITS OF NINJAING.

I understand that much, but there was no specific codex in question from the start so I'm not comparing one to another, I guess I'm asking for clarification of a difference between "moves as" and "actual" jetbikes. Is jetbike a type of unit or just a rule conferred to a unit?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SaintHazard wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So why in the necron FAQ do they say that scarabs can't turbo boost through difficult terrain even though they too move like jet bikes?

And, does the same hold true for Destroyers or are they true jetbikes in the sense that they actually have the jetbike rule as opposed to things like scarabs and wraiths only "moving as" jetbikes?

Destroyers and scarabs move like jetbikes, they are not classified as jetbikes. This is why they don't get a +1 T bonus.

And where does it say they can't turbo-boost through difficult terrain? I have the Necron codex right here and I don't see it in their entry.

Whoops, you said FAQ. Disregard that.

Actually, destroyers have the jetbike rule where as scarabs and wraiths have something different that allows them to 'move as' jetbikes. And destroyers are warriors fused to skimmer bodies, thus getting a +1 toughness if you look at the profiles.

Kevin949 wrote:Actually, destroyers have the jetbike rule where as scarabs and wraiths have something different that allows them to 'move as' jetbikes. And destroyers are warriors fused to skimmer bodies, thus getting a +1 toughness if you look at the profiles.

No. Destroyers "count as Jetbikes for movement purposes."

If they were ACTUAL Jetbikes, they would be Toughness 6. They aren't though, so they remain Toughness 5.

^ What he said.

Nothing in the entire Necron codex has the "Jetbike" special rule.

Anything that moves like a Jetbike explicitly uses the Jetbike special rule for movement purposes or, in the case of Scarabs, move and fight like Jetbikes.

Gwar! wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So why in the necron FAQ do they say that scarabs can't turbo boost through difficult terrain even though they too move like jet bikes?

Because Games workshop are idiots who think that FAQs are the same as errata even though they say themselves the FAQs are nothing more than "House Rules".

And in any case, what applies to Necron Scarabs via an FAQ doesn't apply to anything else. It would be like using the Skaven FAQ for Blood Angels or the Ork FAQ for Eldar.

Note: This is not spam, this is criticism of Games Workshops attitude as well as answering another users question. I respectfully ask that this not be flagged as "spam" and also ask the moderation staff not to treat it as so, mainly because it isn't.

Gwar, the reason that posts like this get flagged as spam is that you are so quick to jump in the 'GW is full of idiots' wagon that you don't stop to think about whether there may be more to it.

The Necron FAQ says that scarabs can't move through difficult terrain when turbo-boosting because they have a special rule that, despite them moving as jetbikes, allows them to move through difficult terrain without taking a difficult terrain test. The FAQ is clarifying that this doesn't over-ride the Turbo Boosters restriction on moving through difficult terrain as part of that movement.

There really isn't more to it than that. But I'll drop it.

In any case, Necron FAQ doesn't apply to any other army.

SaintHazard wrote:^ What he said.

Nothing in the entire Necron codex has the "Jetbike" special rule.

Anything that moves like a Jetbike explicitly uses the Jetbike special rule for movement purposes or, in the case of Scarabs, move and fight like Jetbikes.

Look at destroyers and heavy destroyers, it says "Jetbike". Wraiths have "wraithflight", but both rules have the same explanation of allowing to move like jetbikes, but destroyers actually says "jetbike" under special rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

insaniak wrote:
The Necron FAQ says that scarabs can't move through difficult terrain when turbo-boosting because they have a special rule that, despite them moving as jetbikes, allows them to move through difficult terrain without taking a difficult terrain test. The FAQ is clarifying that this doesn't over-ride the Turbo Boosters restriction on moving through difficult terrain as part of that movement.

Right, and what I'm asking is if destroyers and heavy destroyers are limited the same way because they both actually have the "jetbike" rule where as scarabs have something else that allows them to move like jetbikes but they don't have the actual jetbike rule, where as the other two do. I'm not really counting wraiths because they ignore everything.

The "Jetbike" special rule doesn't make them the Jetbike Unit Type.

Gwar! wrote:There really isn't more to it than that. But I'll drop it.

In any case, Necron FAQ doesn't apply to any other army.

I'm not applying it to any other army though, I'm not saying that if deffkopta's can do one thing why can't my destroyers. I don't care what other jetbikes can or can't do, I'm asking for a clarification on the difference between having the jetbike rule, "being" a jetbike, and moving like a jetbike.

Kevin949 wrote:I'm not applying it to any other army though, I'm not saying that if deffkopta's can do one thing why can't my destroyers. I don't care what other jetbikes can or can't do, I'm asking for a clarification on the difference between having the jetbike rule, "being" a jetbike, and moving like a jetbike.

The first one is a Special Rule, the second one is a Unit Type and the last one is a type of movement.

Gwar! wrote:The "Jetbike" special rule doesn't make them the Jetbike Unit Type.

Ok, that's all I was asking.

Kevin949 wrote:Right, and what I'm asking is if destroyers and heavy destroyers are limited the same way because they both actually have the "jetbike" rule where as scarabs have something else that allows them to move like jetbikes but they don't have the actual jetbike rule, where as the other two do. I'm not really counting wraiths because they ignore everything.

Scarabs are restricted in the FAQ from Turbo Boosting through terrain because (despite moving as jetbikes) they have a special rule allowing them to move through difficult terrain without a difficult terrain test. The FAQ, again, simply clarifies how this special rule interact with Turbo Boosting. That ruling is only relevant to Scarabs, because they are the only unit that has that particular rule.

Every unit that moves as a bike or jetbike is restricted from Turbo Boosting through difficult terrain by the Turbo Boosters rule itself. That has no impact on the ability of jetbikes or units that move as jetbikes (including Scarabs) to move over the terrain as they Turbo Boost.

Thought I should pop back in and say - thanks for all of the responses everyone! Looks like it was as clear cut (for Deffkoptas and other actual Jetbikes anyway) as I thought.

insaniak wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:Right, and what I'm asking is if destroyers and heavy destroyers are limited the same way because they both actually have the "jetbike" rule where as scarabs have something else that allows them to move like jetbikes but they don't have the actual jetbike rule, where as the other two do. I'm not really counting wraiths because they ignore everything.

Scarabs are restricted in the FAQ from Turbo Boosting through terrain because (despite moving as jetbikes) they have a special rule allowing them to move through difficult terrain without a difficult terrain test. The FAQ, again, simply clarifies how this special rule interact with Turbo Boosting. That ruling is only relevant to Scarabs, because they are the only unit that has that particular rule.

Every unit that moves as a bike or jetbike is restricted from Turbo Boosting through difficult terrain by the Turbo Boosters rule itself. That has no impact on the ability of jetbikes or units that move as jetbikes (including Scarabs) to move over the terrain as they Turbo Boost.

So destroyers can boost over terrain then?

I'm guessing the reason for the difference of "through" and "over" is to say that you can't turbo boost into or out of terrain (i.e. a crater or ruins) but if you're on the outside of it you can boost "over" it.

Man, this whole time I've played it where I haven't allowed myself to boost in a straight line if there was any terrain in the way. Normal movement I've ignored terrain though (unless landing in it, of course).

Kevin949 wrote:Man, this whole time I've played it where I haven't allowed myself to boost in a straight line if there was any terrain in the way. Normal movement I've ignored terrain though (unless landing in it, of course).

Happens to us all. I still play pile ins and Assaults wrong occasionally. Damn Edition Confuzions.

Kevin949 wrote:So destroyers can boost over terrain then?

Any Turbo Boost-capable unit that can move freely over terrain can Turbo Boost over it.

I'm guessing the reason for the difference of "through" and "over" is to say that you can't turbo boost into or out of terrain (i.e. a crater or ruins) but if you're on the outside of it you can boost "over" it.

I you're referring to the scarabs still, then yes, that would be my take on it as well. For everyone else, the distinction is simply because regular bikes can also Turbo Boost... but can't move over the terrain like jetbikes can.


For jetbikes, it would also make a difference if you are measuring the actual movement path over the terrain rather than just the horizontal movement... but I don't know if anyone actually does play that way.

Gwar! wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So why in the necron FAQ do they say that scarabs can't turbo boost through difficult terrain even though they too move like jet bikes?

Because Games workshop are idiots who think that FAQs are the same as errata even though they say themselves the FAQs are nothing more than "House Rules".

Please reread this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/253892.page

Pay a larger amount of attention to Tenet 2, you're currently flouting it (again).

Thank you.

insaniak wrote:
I you're referring to the scarabs still, then yes, that would be my take on it as well. For everyone else, the distinction is simply because regular bikes can also Turbo Boost... but can't move over the terrain like jetbikes can.


For jetbikes, it would also make a difference if you are measuring the actual movement path over the terrain rather than just the horizontal movement... but I don't know if anyone actually does play that way.

Well, I was actually just referring to anything that moves as a jetbike (through rule or unit type) as a whole. And actually, the movement thing you mentioned was something on my mind as well as that would, theoretically, cut down how far you could move horizontally (and probably how it "should" be played, but isn't as you said).

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Please reread this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/253892.page

Pay a larger amount of attention to Tenet 2, you're currently flouting it (again).

Thank you.

Please leave the moderating to the moderators.

Thank you.