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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 03:51:01
Subject: SM Librarians
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Regular Dakkanaut
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So here's the thing, people of dakka. I sometimes use a librarian, but I gave up trying to give much thought into which powers to give him. I don't use any of them much either because Smite and Avenger are such short range, I don't like the scatter risk of Vortex, Null Zone never seems to come in handy (I took it when there's no storm shields around, or don't take it when they are around) Quickening is weak since Init doesn't matter much to me when he is always fighting as part of a squad of wounds, I don't get into cc timing right for Might but maybe once per game and even then... whoop-de-doo S6!, the Dome is weak, the Gate risks deep strike mishap, actually, come to think of it, I don't really like any of the SM powers much. I just take him for the hood and the force weapon and the HQ slot if I do.
Are our Librarians just plain worse off than other Marine type armies?
Am I missing something? I have seen what Wolves lightning and jaws, and Chaos lash and BA get to stick em in dreadnaughts, all of these others can DO something with them, REGULARLY, often more than once in a game, and it seems that our only choices of powers are limited to something I have to be lucky to have taken IF it might come in handy, IF I can get into range for it, IF it doesn't scatter, and so on. So many IFs.
A call to SM players who like librarians. What do you do with yours? How do you load him up? What do expect to accomplish with him?
So far, I only get any reliable use from the psykic hood and even that isn't terribly reliable either.
I had thought of making a super librarian who is actually reliable as some kind of offensive force, but I seriously cannot think of any of our powers that would make him points viable.
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What would Yeenoghu do? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 04:01:54
Subject: SM Librarians
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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yeenoghu wrote:Null Zone never seems to come in handy
It's come in handy many times when I've been playing people.
It will, for example, shut down a daemon army. Reducing the 50% saves to 25% breaks the daemon back.
It shuts down eldar seer councils. Not only do you have a chance to negate fortune, you can reverse its effect.
It even works on most ICs. That iron halo just became a lot less effective.
Sure, if you know your going to be playing IG, you don't want this power -- but in tourneys you never know whom you will be playing.
yeenoghu wrote:whoop-de-doo S6!
Thats the difference between wounding MEQ on a 4+ or a 2+. Yes, that is something to be excited about. It also means the librarian will strike vehicles for an average penetration value of 13 -- pretty damn decent.
yeenoghu wrote: Are our Librarians just plain worse off than other Marine type armies?
Go look at the general forum for the post about the 3 most overpowered things in 40k. You will see the C: SM libby comes up quite often.
yeenoghu wrote:A call to SM players who like librarians. What do you do with yours? How do you load him up? What do expect to accomplish with him?.
I use him as a character with a cheap relic blade ( STR 6, power weapon), and Null Zone to shut down armies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 05:13:41
Subject: SM Librarians
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Regular Dakkanaut
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My Codex does not say that I can give him a relic blade. Just switch up the bolter for a storm bolter, plasma pistol, or combi.
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What would Yeenoghu do? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 04:35:24
Subject: SM Librarians
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Charing Cold One Knight
Lafayette, IN
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yeenoghu wrote:My Codex does not say that I can give him a relic blade. Just switch up the bolter for a storm bolter, plasma pistol, or combi.
He was referring to might of the ancients. Relic blades are S6, and might makes him equal to a relic blade captain.
I think that part of your larger issue is the C: SM librarian isn't as flashy as other. This is just fine, as he doesn't make you expose him recklessly like I've seen so many BA and SW characters. For 100 points you get a guy who can hold his own in CC (though not against dedicated assault characters/units) fills your min HQ choices (and for the most part, you should be going for min HQs), provides reasonable defense against powers, and the default power just destroys problem units/armies like seer councils, daemons, and TH/ SH termies. Did I mention it is good against DE too? Their flicker fields, shadow fields, and wyche saves don't like it one bit.
As for my librarian, i give him avenger and null zone, he rides with the foward thrust of my army (often with TH/ SH termies in LR), and does a good job of burning squads. He only really uses his powers 1-2 times a game, but that is ok as far as I'm concerned, he still does more than a chappy or captain.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 04:48:06
Subject: SM Librarians
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Awesome Autarch
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The SM libby is a GREAT hq. Cheap, effective and very, very useful. No, he doesn't do a lot of damage but he's not designed to.
Null Zone
Gate
Awesome.
If you want a little punch, gate, avenger and a unit of sternguard makes for a nasty unit.
Libbies are fantastic, but don't look to them for direct damage dealing in most cases, look to them as a utility unit and your cheap HQ solution.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/02 04:48:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 05:03:28
Subject: Re:SM Librarians
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Null Zone and Avenger is a great combo. Avenger for the 3+ save guys, Null Zone for the hard targets. He's more of a support character...
Avenger is one of the best ways to dispatch 3+ save enemies and Null Zone basically destroys certain armies. It's useless against pretty much ONE army (Guard) and that's about it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 06:02:56
Subject: SM Librarians
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle
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Null zone.. awsome
gate of infinity plus locator beacon allows you to jump within 6" w/o scatter, Plus you can jump out of melee
The avenger, awsome. You get to kill any MEQ under your template on a 3+, barring invuln saves
My buddy uses might often. He does pretty well and it works against vehicles.
I only use libis when im not feilding a named character.
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Pestilence Provides. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 10:01:06
Subject: SM Librarians
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Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman
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librarians can be powerful if you take risks, i took out three crisis suits with a single vortex of doom attack........
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What is life but a 7 point word in Scrabble?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 20:17:26
Subject: SM Librarians
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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I agree with the above- he's fantastic. 100pts to fill your required HQ, get psychic defense against all the good psychic powers out there, and Null Zone to totally screw over other people's Assault Terminators so yours trump theirs, or so you can reliably shoot their TH/SS guys to death with AP2.
The other benefits of Null Zone (boning Seer Councils & entire Daemon armies, weakening DE Wyches & Flickerfields, chaos Daemon Princes, and various other misc stuff with invulnerables) are just gravy. Don't leave home without it. It's the power every other SM army wishes they could get.
The second power is really to taste. Avenger is nice to roast a squad in cover or out of cover (AP3 flame template is always good); even one shot a game can make a big difference. Might is excellent to make him an additional antitank threat and let him reliably add wounds to combat (S6 means dead SM on 2+ or Plagues on 3+). Gate is mostly something you'd take if you had a specific strategy in mind- teleporting a big squad of assault terminators across the field on Turn 1, or bouncing around the field with Sternguard, ideally with the aid of Locator Beacons.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/02/02 20:18:25
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 20:33:50
Subject: SM Librarians
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
Rynn's World
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.Powers wise,never leave home without Nullzone,as has been mentioned,it can ruin a lot of peoples days.2nd power would be either avenger mostly or might / gate.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 20:34:53
Subject: SM Librarians
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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Vortex can be a nice little super-destructive ace in the hole, especially if you're in Terminator armor so can move & fire it.
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 20:58:08
Subject: SM Librarians
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Stalwart Tribune
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On Null-zone: What they said.
On avenger: If you're guy is in a LR... you can bet your baals that he's going to make it to your opponent's lines.
on gate: If your opponents let you use locator beacons in conjunction with GoI, then you can build yourself one of my favorite lists ever. Teleporting sternguard that have a rapid fire range of 36"... and just for fun? take 2. It's fragile and hard to use, but very effective if you know how.. and straight up fun.
on Force Dome: Less usefull than Null zone, but if you do the math you realize that S6+ ap 3- hits have a 88% kill rate against your marines... Force Dome puts this down to 55%. Which is a lot...
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PM me! Let's play a game!
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"GOTHIC MOTHAFETHA, DO YOU SPEAK IT?!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 21:35:20
Subject: SM Librarians
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I'm curious about that last post. Locator beacon versus GoI. Why would you need an opponent's permission? Is that a contested ruling? I have never used locator beacons in all my games. How does it affect GoI if the beacon is in the gating squad - is that something people argue about?
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What would Yeenoghu do? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 21:44:42
Subject: SM Librarians
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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There's a rules ambiguity we've gone round and round on in YMDC. What it boils down to is that Locator Beacons state that they work on units "entering the table" via Deep Strike. GoI says the unit is removed and placed on the table using the DS rules, but is this really entering the table, given that they started on the table? Different people come down on different sides, and I think reasonably so.
If you'd like to try it, it's worth discussing with your local play group and seeing what the consensus is.
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 22:18:05
Subject: SM Librarians
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I'm surprised it hasn't had an official FAQ ruling. That sounds really cool to try, but I would hate to try using it only to find out that some rules lawyer guy won't allow me to do it because it is to my advantage and ambiguous, and with my luck with trying to get any use of a librarian psykic power that's probably what would happen.
How about a bike? I wonder if rolling with some bikers would make for a tough "hero leading the charge" Librarian like I'm wanting to figure out.
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What would Yeenoghu do? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/02 22:21:59
Subject: SM Librarians
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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Either a bike or terminator armor can make for a tougher librarian.
If you really want a bad-bottom HTH Libby, I'd say spring for the 50pt Epistolary upgrade and Terminator armor, and attach him to a squad of TH/SS termies in a Redeemer. Give him Might and Null Zone and watch him rock the house. The reason for the Epistolary upgrade is so against a high-toughness target (like a Tervigon) he can Might and still use his Force Weapon in the same turn. Take that, sucker!
You could do the same combo on a bike, of course. This could make a nice secondary HQ after the Biker Captain in a biker army.
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/08 21:39:42
Subject: SM Librarians
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Slippery Scout Biker
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This Thread rocks you have all inspired me to field a librarian
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Sons of Draconis 1500pts and climbing
CHUCK NORRIS ATE BARTS SHORTS
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(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/09 00:20:24
Subject: Re:SM Librarians
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Here's how i field mine.
TDA and Stormshield.
for Powers its usually always Null Zone although i have tossed GoI on a couple of times.
the other power is usually Vortex. Str10 AP1 is hard to comeby in the Codex. he can also move, fire and assault after using it thanks to TDA.
If it's not vortex its usually Avenger for another Template.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/16 14:45:15
Subject: SM Librarians
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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TDA, Quickening, Vortex if I put him with Tac Termies, or Gate if on his own in low points. In low points he jumps off by himself, slaying Enemy Leaders with Combi-Plasma and Force Weapon, and in high point games he DS in with 5 Termies and Unleashes Vortex Of DOOOOOMMMMM!!!!! Why should Eldar be the only army to yell doom in a deep menacing voice? Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, a guy I know uses Daemon Princes. His opponent had Tiguirius use Null Zone( shut down his 5++), and then hosed him down with Avenger. Then he charged and used Force Dome to give himself a 5++ against the return attacks. He survived and then Used Quickening, Might and Null zone., hitting first, wounding on 3+.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2011/10/16 14:51:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/16 18:51:08
Subject: Re:SM Librarians
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Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot
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What do you do with yours? How do you load him up? What do expect to accomplish with him?
I use one of two: Totally bone dry. No upgrades whatsoever. This guy rides in the AV14 box with the terminators but does not get out, or disembarks from one of the far doors out of LOS. He has null zone and avenger. Pop null zone, watch everything on a huge section of board weep, then sit there with your well protected hood and stop enemy psykers. There are very few armies that don't have SOMETHING important or potentially threatening protected by a ++ save. Even tau have one or two sneaking about. If appropriate he jumps out with the TH/ SS squad and avengers something to soften them up, and then charges in. (Looking at you, space wolves.)
The other is TDA + Stormshield. This guy usually carries null zone and avenger too, but occasionally I will take vortex when I feel the extra punch is a good idea. Gives you a lot more leeway in what you can jump him into.
I have not yet had reason to regret the choice. Avenger is a terrifying anti infantry power coming out of a land raider (See: Oh look, you moved 12 and disembarked to try to double melta my LR. Well, since you were good enough to set up in 2x5 model lines, I will now slap all 10 of them with an avenger template. Goodbye!), vortex is just terrifying to everyone, and null zone has caused terminator fights to go my way repeatedly, shut down wyches and daemons, made ICs rather more cautious about jumping into combat with me, and the psychic defense alone has saved games for me (See: GK.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/16 19:55:04
Subject: SM Librarians
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Pragmatic Collabirator
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I don't take librarians for their psychic powers. I take them for their psychic defense. The powers are there to fill in any gaps. Like others will tell you, he is more for unit support.
Where I tend to place him determines the psychic ability. I place him with thunderhammer terminators so I give him null zone and might of ancients.
I take null zone because if a unit has an invulnerable save, then it is worth killing as quickly as possible. Also, Null zone has the same range as a demolisher cannon.
I use might because as good as terminators are at killing things in close combat, if you can hit a fast moving vehicle at I4 and immobilize it with the S6+2d6 it give that extra bit of assurance with the auto hits.
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I have Faith.
"Strong units. Weak units. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled players should try to win with their favorites."
Sisters of Battle Paint Blog
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/18 04:38:23
Subject: Re:SM Librarians
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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As a BA player, I would gladly trade any of our available powers except Shield for Null Zone. TH/SS Terminators are one of the few common things I can't shoot to death or mulch with a Blood Talon Furioso.
I'm not complaining, by the way.
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Current Record: 5 Wins, 6 Draws, 3 Losses 2000 points
In Progress: 500 points
Coming Soon: |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/18 16:55:11
Subject: Re:SM Librarians
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Hellish Haemonculus
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I personally rock the Gate of Infinity and the Force Dome with a Sternguard squad. It rocks on toast.
I have used Tigurius in a Drop Pod list, in the above described manner, and weaved a path of destruction through my foes. Of course, I've also Gated into the wrong spot and been wiped off the board.
Bottom line? Played well, a Librarian is awesome. What people aren't really talking about is what I think is one of the libby's best features-the hood. I've gotten more bang for that particular buck than any power I've ever taken for them.
Hope this helps.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/19 03:38:11
Subject: Re:SM Librarians
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Regular Dakkanaut
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librarians are always fun no matter what codex your using. however i have found that if you use a standard codex marine libby in termie armor with gate of infinity and vortex of doom attached to a full unit of tactical terminators with dual assault cannons to be very fun.
bounce around with gate and start lighting up any unit in range. with that set up you can take down just about anything with aggressive tactics
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/19 17:42:51
Subject: SM Librarians
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Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
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Ive used my librarian with ss alot in a cc termi squad and it usually works very well with avenger and null zone, tried vortex once and lost the whole unit though. My dice decided to slap me in the face that day but other then that ive had nothing but good times with my librarians no matter how they've been set up.
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Blood Ravens: 3500pts
Eldar: 950pts |
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