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So a few weeks ago I was inspired by Lonecoon's Thread to whip up a couple Pro/E models and send them in to shapeways to be printed. Without a very good knowledge or appreciation of the limitations of the process, these are the two models I ended up sending in:



After waiting a few weeks, the models finally came in, shipping several days after and arriving about a week after the projected arrival date. Unpacked them, and was initially fairly unimpressed with the quality, to be honest. The surface quality was pretty rough, some of the details, especially on the feathery bits of the wings, just didn't really come out at all. Most of it was pretty good though. The worst part was that the top rocket nozzles on the scythes didn't even get modeled. Looking back, that was entirely my fault for making them so small and having them only attached by a tiny point. I'm kind of surprised now that the model even made it past their built-in minimum thickness checks. Another thing was that they were a lot more angular than I'd meant them to be, but looking back I'm pretty sure that happened when I converted the files into a format Shapeways would recognize, so that's not really as much of a manufacturing thing either. In the end, I ended up clipping off a select few scythes and wings off of their sprue, washing off the powdery bits that seem to be remnants of the printing process, and trying to wash off the crud that I'd hoped was merely obscuring the wing details. Then I went and passed some devlan mud over the scythes and one of the jump pack assemblies because Devlan Mud is what I had on hand. It sorta worked on the scythes, but pretty much just made the jump pack look like it'd been smeared with poop. Such is using a brown wash on unprimed plastic. So anyway, here be the models. First, the powerscythe modelled on a 28mm armature:



I also made these multi-purpose...

And finally, the Winged Jump Pack, modeled on a sister superior I just got today from ebay in another package. Please excuse the paint job, as I've not had a chance to strip it yet.




So there's that. Altogether, not too bad I guess, but certainly not ideal.

For the future:
1. Get these painted up. That, I think, will be the true test.
2: Alter the models. I've already worked a bit on the "feathers" to make them more even and look a bit less like scales. Still needs more work. I also need to move the mounting point for the wings down further, so they're sticking out more from the model's shoulder area rather than the neck area. On the scythe, merge the top jet with the rest of the model and take out some of the details that were too small to really turn out. Also, learn the conversion to shapeways-compatible model better to make them less polygonal and angular.
3: Work on new models. I've done this dome so far because I never seem to have enough of the ones that come with the SoB vehicles. Original design here. I have since redesigned the canopy and posted it up in my shop.

Other new models I've been considering are a rocket-powered hammer or other variations of hand weapons.
I might even try to make a multi-part suit of power armor based on my inquisitor sketch here.
4: If I can get some of the issues sorted out, I've been considering opening up a shapeways shop. Is there anything that people particularly want to see that I could be working on? I enjoy CAD for the sake of CAD, so if it'd be an interesting model I'm all for trying it.

If you went with White Strong and flexible for your two prints, I recommend going with White Detail next time.

That said, your jump pack looks amazing.

Can these guys do Elysian melta guns? I could really use about a dozen more.

Lonecoon-I'm pretty sure I used White Detail, although I'll check to make sure when I make my next order. That being said, I was also too eager to see how these worked out to sit down and put some effort into sanding things down smooth. And about the jump pack, thanks! I just thought of another way I might be able to fix the feathery bits, and that'd be to try doing completely flat feathers with grooves marking out the individual ones, rather than having everything slanted now which may have been what caused the issues.

Cannibal-While I've no doubt that they could physicall manufacture them, I'd rather not open the can of worms that is copying a company's work. I'm all for designs "inspired by" GW but using generic icons and imagery, with maybe something original thrown in, but I'd really rather avoid the whole IP infringement mess myself.

Cannibal wrote:Can these guys do Elysian melta guns? I could really use about a dozen more.

I made IG meltas: http://www.shapeways.com/model/175689/4_meltaguns.html

I ran into the same problem when I printed in their white detail plastic. Washing it off with a detergent helps quite a bit, since it's actually not "plastic" but a UV-reactive resin, and has the same resin-no-likey-paint issues as Forgeworld models.

I've actually found the black looks pretty swanky if you're intending to use opaque colors. Got some custom drones in recently and painted them up. They've been enough of a hit at the local gaming store that I started selling them on Shapeways, and someone commissioned me to make them some "generic flying space monster" wings... for gigantic generic flying space monsters that are totally not 'nids.

We're going to print those in the "transparent" detail so she can have the membranes be translucent. (I expect she'll be using thinly applied inks and such to get that effect) Made a full figure for fun while I was at it, is at the following link: http://www.shapeways.com/model/219905/flying_alien_monster.html?gid=sg71173

That is the White Detail material. The WSF has an even rougher exterior texture and is porous like sandstone.

Like yourself I found the level of detail to be a limiting factor when trying to do pieces for 28mm sized individual models. The detail level is .2mm but the actual printing process really only produces clean\visible detail at .4mm and above.

I have done a decent number of orky vehicle upgrade bits and those turned out much better all around. (SW page in my sig line)

This is news.

This is big news! I must investigate shapeways! I was going to mould a new missile pod version for my upcoming typhoons, but this is som much better.

Apache chief! FORM OF AUTODESK!

*3d time*

Woo, thanks for the advice guys. I've been busy at work and sick, so I haven't really devoted much time to hobby stuff in the past few weeks. I'm hoping to make a few of the detail fixes on my current models done soon though, and I've got a few ideas spinning around for new things.

Shrapnel-That's a pretty awesome looking flying space monster there, haha. If you end up getting pics of the translucent wings, I'd love to see them, especially if you can get before and after photos. I'm really curious as to how the transparent material turns out.

Vandil- Yeah, I'm hoping to mess around a bit with detail levels on my models to get something a bit more workable. That said, some of the smaller stuff turned out pretty darn well on mine. I think it might be the recessed details that mostly got muddles, while the protruding details seemed to come out fairly well. Also, I quite like your custom vehicle bits!

Well the price is based on material volume so once you start getting up there in size molding and green stuff starts to look attractive again.

For instance I recreated the complete historic Parthenon at 23cm paying attention to hollow everything to min wall thickness and the entire model was going to cost me around $350 to print in WSF closer to $1000 in WD.

http://www.shapeways.com/model/212757/parthenon_lower_section.html?gid=sg67437
Remains unprinted obviously.

Haha, should get that printed out in sandstone for the lulz, costs be damned! Too bad they don't offer marble

Taking a look at the materials offered again, the transparent looks to be a lot more translucent than I'd hoped. Looks like I'm going to be trying out casting in clear resin. Woohoo!

I took the route of printing hollow columns the Exterior and Interior Doric columns then poured a mold to recast the columns in solid White Excalibre with Castrite Marble Powder in the mix. Roof unfortunately is taking some extra time.

Yes the Transparent is more translucent with a yellowish tint. It will pass colored LED light though. I printed my plasma power gen core in transparent and inserted a 3.5v ultra bright red LED in the base.. The entire core is red when lit. I have the battery's in the hollow parts of the plasma gen base.

Beautiful job.

I have a new found appreciation for how hard it can be to design these things. I have been trying for about two weeks to design missle launchers that can easily go on to a marine model (because honestly $8.99+ for a single ML is insane) but to no avail.

Question on the cast. Would it be possible to recast in say resin to work out the roughness of the printer?

Before I rip your work, let me say that I'm digging your stuff, and hope that you get any problems work out as can see myself having some of the wings printed for my Sisters.
As for the work itself, three quick things.
The bit between the wings and backpack look well, meh. maybe baroque it up a little to visually connect the wings and the pack.
The air intake on the pack looks like it would suck her hair (and break her neck at the same time) into it as well as a limited amount of airflow into the engine.
Is the blue tack sticking it out from her back much more then if it was glue on? Just me but I think that I like the look of packs next to the body as apposed to sticking far out from it. Tight straps and a well position ruck will ride better than a loosey goosey one. Yes I know power armor and all that...

Mud Duck wrote:Question on the cast. Would it be possible to recast in say resin to work out the roughness of the printer?

Yeah, you can recast these. Coating them with them with something like krylon klear coat is necessary to keep air bubbles from leaking out into your casting medium.

I'd imagine that the varnish would help smooth it out a lot too. The only thing to think of here is that printed items can have all sorts of geometry that would be very difficult to cast, like undercut areas, lots of open loops of material, etc. I think my designs so far wouldn't have too many problems there, but it's certainly something to remain aware of.

And more specifically at Mud Duck- Thanks, criticism is a good thing really. Helps improve designs & whatnot, haha. I see what you mean about the connector bit. I'm thinking maybe a hingey bit up top and some sort of decorative gear looking thing for the bottom part of it? For the intake, I certainly understand where you're coming from there. Wouldn't be too much of a problem if they just wore their damn helmets, haha. I can experiment with making it a bit bigger, but I'm worried that'll throw off the balance. Yes, there's a lot of blutac there. The actual pack fits a lot closer to the body. Unfortunately, I made the cutout for the backpack mounting knob thing a tad too small, so that's something else to fix in the revisions.

I made a few concept sketches last night for a kukri, power sword variants of a khopesh, falcata, and gladius, as well as a chain-katana and a fairly basic melta pistol. I hope to get a few models done in Pro/E in the next week or so.

are the "curve" issues due to the file format being used, or is it the printer?

The fact this place is cheap and easy to use is great, but resolution is an issue.

My thoughts are:
1. print the parts
2. "jazz up" the parts with bits/greenstuff/ect
3. create molds for the actual production models.
4. mass produce my army!

Grundz, do you mean the curves straightening out? I think it's mostly due to me not being too familiar with the file format being used. I have to convert my Pro/E files to a format they accept, and everything gets flattened out into polygons in the process. I'm trying to learn the settings so that becomes less of a problem.

What kind of parts were you thinking of?

Zefig wrote:Grundz, do you mean the curves straightening out? I think it's mostly due to me not being too familiar with the file format being used. I have to convert my Pro/E files to a format they accept, and everything gets flattened out into polygons in the process. I'm trying to learn the settings so that becomes less of a problem.

What kind of parts were you thinking of?

yeah, the curves straightening, im wondering if their file conversion is just low resolution and we could use something else to convert the files ourselves and do it better.

For my parts? I'm thinking entire models, I know that isn't the best idea, but with realscale increasing size, adding details and smoothing edges before the models becoming molds, and the fact im doing my own thing and not making them try and look like anything GW has done, I think it can be pulled off as long as I am careful.

Right now I'm tossing around the idea of something like the maxmini steel brotherhood, most of the model obscured by robes that jut out at odd angles, the lower body and arms being made post-printing out of speaker cables (mostly), shoulder mounted stormbolters and large gear-lined chain weapons (as they will counts as grey knights)

It is the conversion process that is causing your problem. Pro/e uses mathematically defined curves to draw circles but Shapeways uses polygons in all the formats it accepts
When you attempt to convert formats, the software looks at your model, says This is perfectly nice curve, but I must turn them into polygons, or it won't work. So it does - but it doesn't know how many polygons exactly you want for each curve, or anything like that. Instead it takes a rough guess, and the result is your model gets messed up.

General solutions may or may not apply, depending on what you want.

Change the model inside Autocad, either so that it assumes more polygons for each curve when converted, or by converting the curves to polygons yourself.

Or, export the model and then manually correct the curves by subdividing and smoothing them using some other software, so as to achieve a decent approximation of the original curves.

If there is s a conversion tab somewhere that allows you to define how many polygons are created for each and every arc you have. You just need to turn up the number until it's smooth enough to fit your needs. For instance, instead of 1 or 2 per 90 degree arc, you probably want more like 32 to 48.

In AutoCAD, you need to type FACETRES at the command line. The default value is 0.5. Set it to 5 or higher. This will smooth your curves, including existing ones.

Shop is live!

At the moment though, all that's up are the revised jet packs. Here's what they should be looking like now.




And thanks for the info Vandil, I think it really helped smooth things out here. I'll get some printed off again soon to see how it looks on the actual models.

I messed around a bit with the scythe too, and that ended up quite nice as well. however, when I looked more closely at the model, I realized that the missing rocket nozzle wasn't a printing error...they just never made it through the file conversion. So I'm going to be looking into that. Things got pretty silly in Pro/E when I tried to make an elliptical revolution on a non-primary axis, so that might have something to do with it.

Well, I finally got around to messing with my models again. The scythe took far too long to get right. Ended up having to just delete the nozzle and rebuilt it, and this type I set it straight rather than at an angle. That seemed to fix it up. It's good to go!



I also revisited the bubble canopies, since I'm building up my army and I'm missing a TON of the originals, with no replacements in sight. So I gothiced my original design up and loaded it into the system.



I'll try it out in frosted ultra detail to see how it looks, but will likely end up casting them in clear resin if they're not as transparent as I'd like.

One other beef I have with the shapeways shop is that the prices seem to default to the most expensive ones, when muuuuch cheaper alternatives are available. But I guess they're working on it.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Sexy 'carbine' but I cant access the link

Ahh, sorry about that, should all be fixed now.

Damn you do some nice models what software do you use to design?
If only there were some nice person who would do a set of 'generic' railguns :p

Haha, thanks. I use Pro/Engineer, which I think was recently renamed for whatever reason to Creo Elements.

As much as I'd love to make some railguns, and as much as it pains me to shirk my profit motives, they fall a bit far into "heretical xenos scum" for my current interests. But mostly, Dakka's very own Paulson has some pretty nice guns available in his webstore.

I revised my flamethrower combi-gun and added a new one some of you might be interested in.





They're up in the store.