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There seems to be an unsaid, ongoing debate among competitive GK players and that is "is a paladin GK-build a competitive build?" While most agree that purifier GK's are one of their more competitive builds, I've seen few espouse about paladins in their competitive lists. I myself only use paladins in casual "fun" games. For my competitive army, I normally use a Crowe-purifier build.

My own personal view on paladins is not that they aren't competitive enough, but that they aren't balanced enough. I see them more like a nob biker list or thunderwolf space wolf army. Sure these types of "hammer" or "deathstar" armies are strong against armies without the resources to take them on. Against those armies, they have a good chance to table them. But hammer armies are also more prone to matchup problems against other balanced builds as well. That's why I believe these types of armies haven't been able to achieve success in a tournament environment (at least not in the bigger tournaments). They just don't have the tools to deal with a wider range of armies.

When I say a paladin-GK army, I don't mean a GK army with just 1 unit of 5 paladins. I'm talking about a GK army in which paladins are the main driving force of the army and not just a point-filler to round out the army. The most common "competitive" paladin army is the Draigowing, that is, a GK army using Draigo, 2 squads of paladins and possibly 2-3 dreadknights or stormravens for support at 2K. This is what I see more of normally. However, my opponent for this game, Bobby, brought what I felt was a very good paladin list. Instead of Draigo, he brought Coteaz and henchmen warbands to balance out the typically low-model count that is a paladin build. If I was to build a paladin army, I would build it more like his army instead.

I think this is going to be a good, competitive matchup.


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My list:

Purifier Grey Knights 2K



Castellan Crowe

Venerable Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Venerable Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Vindicare

6x Purifier Squads - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino
6x Purifier Squads - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino
6x Purifier Squads - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberd, 1x MC-Hammer, Rhino
6x Purifier Squads - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberd, 1x Hammer, Rhino
5x Grey Knight Strike Squads - Rhino

Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo



Paladin Grey Knights 2K



Coteaz
Librarian - Might of Titan, Shrouding, Summoning, Warp Rift

10x Paladins - 4x Psycannons, 1 Brotherhood Banner, All halberds
10x Paladins - 4x Psycannons, All halberds

3x Acolytes w/Boltguns - Chimera w/Warp Stabilization
3x Acolytes w/Boltguns - Chimera w/Warp Stabilization
3x Acolytes w/Boltguns - Chimera w/Warp Stabilization
3x Acolytes w/Boltguns - Chimera w/Warp Stabilization
3x Acolytes w/Boltguns, 3x Crusaders, 2x Mystics - Chimera w/Dozers + Warp Stabilization (Coteaz + librarian here)


Here's a close-up of his chimeras:



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PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Purifier Grey Knights:
Paladins are going to be tough for me to take on. Two things I normally struggle against (at least with my shooting) are land raiders and models with 2+ saves. While he doesn't have the former, he has many of the latter. The only way for me to reliably kill his terminators is to assault them with my force weapons and that's a risky proposition at best. Because next turn, his counter-assault should wipe out my guys.

Normally, I would be glad to insta-gib his paladins with my psyfleman dreadnoughts but that's going to really hard to do that here. Most likely he is going to mount his terminators in those chimeras and his librarian is going to shroud those vehicles for a 3+ smoked cover save. No, it won't be easy to take down his chimeras, but that's exactly what I have to do. Kill his mobility and I've got a slight edge. Otherwise, I don't think I will be able to stop his paladins once they get close to my objective.

I'm really starting to dislike Capture and Control missions. One of my weaknesses is my mobility in trying to reach the enemy objective. Then again, my opponent also shares the same dilemma here as he too is playing GK's without any shunting units or stormravens. Deployment is equal for both of us, though if he decides to deepstrike one of his paladin units into my backfield, that's going to give me some problems.

Overall, I believe the key to a purifier victory is in stopping my opponent's mobility and that is exactly what I'm going to do. Also, I need to kill his librarian. The libbie is a force-multiplier that will make his army much, much harder to deal with. If I can do those, then I've got this game in the bag.


Paladin Grey Knights:
I believe his main struggle will be against my anti-tank shooting, but it won't be game-breaking if he loses his transports. His paladins should be able to survive the trekk towards my objective.

He needs to watch out for 2 things - my vindicare and my dreadnoughts. If he is not careful, I will snipe his librarian. Also, if his paladins wander too close, I will lock them up in combat with my dreads. Without daemonhammers, they may struggle to get out of combat with my dreads, though I've yet to feel the wrath of his librarian's Might of Titans.

He does have 1 huge advantage over me, and that is his librarians LD10 psychic hood (compared to my LD9 purifiers). As long as his librarians lives, it's not a guarantee that I can force weapon his paladins to death in assault. I really need to take out his librarian. His libbie has also got a trick that I need to watch out for and that is the Summoning. If I split my forces, I may find it a big mistake as he can reposition his units with the Summoning and catch me out of position. Against his army, I need to keep my forces together.

Finally, Shrouding is going to be a big pain. It's going to make his vehicles 3x as hard to kill with shooting.

Overall, I feel his chances for a win depends on how long his vehicles with Shrouding will last against my shooting and also how long his librarian will survive.


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Mission: Capture and Control

Deployment: Spearhead

Initiative: Paladin GK's


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Deployment:


Map of the board.


Paladin deployment. Paladins combat squad. Chimeras are empty. Coteaz, librarian and henchmen are in the actual, non-lego chimera. Paladins will get into the chimeras on their Turn 1.


Paladin deployment - rear perspective. Paladin's objective in the ruins with warrior henchmen (and out of my LOS).


Purifier deployment. The right-most rhino is empty, with Crowe just right behind it.


My strike squad stays in the back. My objective is right in my corner.


Overview of the board after deployment.

I fail to steal the initiative.


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Paladins 1

Overview of the beginning of Turn 1.


Paladins get in. Chimeras advance at full speed and pop smokes. No shooting/assault.


Purifiers 1

Crowe gets in and his rhino moves full speed ahead. All the purifier rhinos move only at combat speed.


The paladin's librarian casts Shrouding and I am unable to successfully get through his 3+ cover. I do, however, manage to wreck 1 paladin chimera who was just out of Shrouding range.


And shake another within Shrouding range, but that is all.


Paladins 2

Overview of the beginning of Turn 2.


Paladin movement. I believe his librarian disembarks from the chimera and hides behind terrain (and out of LOS from my vindicare). His librarian then summons the left-rear chimera towards the right. He also summons the banner paladins into terrain.* One of them takes a wound to dangerous terrain. Other chimeras advance and 2 squads of paladins disembark.

* I know that the new FAQ now states that a psyker can only use the same power once, but this game was actually played before that FAQ came out.


Paladin psycannons wreck my left-most rhino and shakes my right one, but that is the extent of his shooting.


Purifiers 2

Purifier movement. 3 squads of purifiers disembark and prepare to wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am his banner paladins. The white dice under my center paladins is just there to prop them up so that they don't fall all over the place. Dreads also advance and Crowe disembarks from his rhino to go after the librarian. Unfortunately, I roll poorly for difficult terrain and thus Crowe won't be able to assault his libbie this turn.

Now I attempt a controversial maneuver. Crowe's rhino tank shocks the middle paladins. Unexpectedly, they fail morale and fall back. However, the closest distance for the fall back move would be to their left. Unfortunately, that also brings them to within 1" of Crowe and because they can't go around him, my argument is that they were trapped and thusly destroyed. However, his argument is that they could fall back to the right instead, even though that isn't the shortest distance to his table edge. I finally suggested we roll off for it, but he just removed his models instead so that the game could continue.

Now after the game, I asked this tank shock question here at YMDC, and it appears that I played it wrong and he was right.

So Bobby, if you read this, I apologize for getting that rule incorrect. It was really classy of you to just let it go and I thank you for that.


Anyways, my shooting blows up 3 chimeras. I believe his librarian did cast Shrouding again.


My vendread assaults his paladins and they stay locked in combat. That's fine by me.


Now for the massive assault with my 3 Purifiers and Crowe. His librarian casts Sanctuary, but I beat the odds and lose only 1 psycannon purifier (out of 19 guys) to dangerous terrain. I then wipe out his paladins without losing a single guy (I did put a couple of wounds with stormbolter fire just before the assault). I don't believe I even needed to activate my force weapons. Take note: Psyk-out grenades are nasty against other grey knights. His paladins didn't even get a chance to swing back!


Paladins 3

Paladin movement. His chimera immobilizes itself on terrain. He then re-rolls because of his dozers and he still immobilizes it again. Henchmen then disembark. Librarians moves towards Crowe and joins the paladins. Coteaz splits off by himself.

He is so concerned with my vindicare that his paladins (with librarian) shoot at my vindicare. He does manage to kill my assassin, but now he won't be able to assault my purifiers right in front of him.


Paladins cast hammerhand and then his librarian casts Might of Titan on them. I believe he failed his 1st attempt and succeeded on the 2nd try.** Now my vendread is fighting 5 mini-dreadknights and they easily wreck him with all the pens they caused. Wow, I did not expect that. No wonder he didn't need any daemonhammers.

** Again, this game was actually played before the FAQ came out with regards to using the same psychic power again.


Purifiers 3

Purifier movement. 1 unit of purifiers (top) get into their rhino and I tank shock my way towards his objective. My other unit of purifiers (right) tank shocks his other unit of paladins and then pop smokes. Then 2 units of purifiers and Crowe get ready to deal with his librarian+paladins.


My strike squad goes to claim my objective.


My shooting blows up his last chimera. I believe 1 mystic and 1 warrior dies in the explosion.


My regular dread assaults his paladins and locks them up.


The beginning of the end? I assault his paladins with my 2 units of purifiers. However, his librarian casts Sanctuary and this time, I lose 6-7 guys from dangerous terrain (out of 11 guys)!!! Are you kidding me?!? 1 warding stave unit (with only 2 guys) fails its difficult terrain test and doesn't make it into assault.

Also, Crowe opts to assault the henchmen instead of his paladins.


Despite striking first, my 1 unit of purifiers (maybe with only 3 guys left) whiff and his paladins pulverizes them. I did manage to force weapon 1 paladin to death though.

Crowe decides to parry and cast Cleansing Flame. I make it over his librarian's hood. Unfortunately, it only kills 1 henchmen....but that is enough to win combat. Crowe then sweeps them.


Paladins 4

Overview of Turn 4.



Paladin movement.


Paladins shoot at my left rhino and only shake it. Acolytes rapid-fire Crowe but fail to cause any damage. His paladins then assault my rhino. Coteaz assaults the other rhino.


Librarian casts Might of Titan on paladins engaged with my dreadnought. Combined with hammerhand, they easily wreck him.

Coteaz, despite needing 6's to hit my rhino, manages to pen it 2-3 times and blow it up.

Finally, his other paladins wreck my top rhino. The 2 purifiers in it safely disembarks.


Purifiers 4

Overview of the beginning of Purifiers Turn 4.


Crowe and 2 purifiers go after henchmen. Rhino tank shocks his left paladins (with librarian). My top rhino also zooms towards his objective.


Another perspective of my movement. Rhinos pop smokes.

Right now, my strategy is to ignore all else and go after his scoring units.


I fire at his 2 upper hencmen units. They both go-to-ground and survive. Here, we have a brief debate over whether his middle henchmen unit gets cover from my 4 purifiers slightly obscured by my rhino. Since he gave me the last rules debate (the tank shock), I gave him the cover this time.

After the game, I asked about the cover question here on YMDC. It turns out that I was wrong again, but at least this time, we played it correctly. Wow, 0-for-2 on rules issues. I suck.


Purifiers cannot assault because they shot at a henchmen unit that was out of their assault range, so only Crowe is able to assault. He kills 2 henchmen but they pass morale and stay locked in combat. Doh!!! If I was able to wipe out that squad of 3, I could've probably consolidated behind the ruins and out of LOS and assault range.


Paladins 5

Overview of the beginning of Turn 5.

It's also crunch time for the paladins. They are totally out of position to contest my objective. They only thing they can do is to stop me from killing their last scoring unit to pull out the draw. Otherwise, I've got this game in the bag.


His librarian summons 1 of the henchmen (who failed morale last turn and was falling back). I'm not sure why he did this. I don't believe his acolyte could regroup.


Right paladins go after my purifiers. Librarian splits off from left paladins, who go after my top rhino. Coteaz then goes after my bottom rhino. Can he wipe out all those units for the draw?


Assault! Everyone but Crowe, that is.


My rhino survives unscathed! That could be game there.


He wipes out my purifers and surround Crowe. Crowe fails to kill the lone acolyte! Doh!

Finally, Coteaz, again needing 6's to hit, hits my rhino once. This time though, he only stuns my rhino.


Purifiers 5

Overview of the beginning of Purifiers Turn 5.


Both rhinos go to contest his objective (I pass my Fortitude on the stunned rhino and he fails to hood it). My purifiers advance.

Left vendread shoots at and instagibs 1 paladin.


Onto assault. Purifiers try to tie up right paladins. Vendread assaults left paladins.


Purifiers force weapon 1 paladin to death. They, in turn, kill 2 purifiers for a tied combat. Crowe kills henchmen and has to consolidate around his librarian. The dread and left paladins do nothing to each other.

We roll to see if the game continues and fortunately for me, it ends.


I've got my own objective.


His objective is contested by my 2 rhinos and probably Crowe as well.


What would have been a Grey Knight Purifier victory instead could have easily resulted in a draw had his tank-shocked paladins still been in play. Thus, I call this game a No Contest and for a rematch to be in order.


Draw (No Contest)!!!

Very interesting.

I'd actually like to see your Crowe list versus a Draigo list but this will do nicely in the interim.

While I commend his not gaming the system, I do feel he's crippling himslef a bit by not going with wound allocation on the paladins. He's also offering up a lot of KPs by having MSU henchmen.

I love the lego chimeras. Looking forward to the report.

Artemo wrote:Very interesting.

I'd actually like to see your Crowe list versus a Draigo list but this will do nicely in the interim.

While I commend his not gaming the system, I do feel he's crippling himslef a bit by not going with wound allocation on the paladins. He's also offering up a lot of KPs by having MSU henchmen.

I'm still trying to find a decent Draigowing player to play against. If not, I may just have to go against my own Draigowing.

I like the Coteaz/paladin combination for a number of reasons:

1. It gives the paladins chimera transports so that they don't have to footslog it.

2. It balances out the low-model count in a typical paladin army.

3. It lets you concentrate the full fury of the paladins on the enemy and not to have to worry about getting objectives.

I see that.

My personal take is that, on the whole, I'd regard a low model count as a bonus in some ways (few KPs) and I'd rather see paladins supported by venerable dreadnoughts (which I'd GS for objective holding) than inquisitorial weaklings. I do see the point of 'chimera-cheating' (as it were) and it's not a bad idea at all. I've enjoyed all your previous reports tremendously and I'm looking forward to this one a lot. I just think a Draigo list might do for you. This one, iIm not so sure (mind you I think a Crowe-Purifier-Dreadnought list is probably the most all-round competitive of the possible GK lists)

this should be interesting!!!

No Draigo to catch high str low ap shots for Paladins?

Ouch.

Look forward to seeing the report though

Looking forward to this one!

Love the lego Chimera conversion. This will be an interesting match up. I look forward to reading the rest.

SabrX wrote:Love the lego Chimera conversion. This will be an interesting match up. I look forward to reading the rest.

Basically my thoughts exactly.

If you get 1st turn it could be some tricky decisions also: do you shoot the chimeras and prevent the pali's rushing forwards, or do you shoot the palies as they're the real threat?

Look forward to more.

I went for a draw considering the game type and lists too...

I voted Paladins get the win. I think you could really struggle against those 2+ saves, not to mention the fact he can also get in the chimeras, pop smoke and get a 3+ cover save while he advances.

Regardless, it looks like it will be an interesting read.

If he moves max speed on turn 1 and pops smoke, that will definitely give some trouble with the cover saves. The spearhead deployment plus the fact that you are dealing with non-fortitude transports; and the terrain could still allow JV to keep him at distance for that 1 precious turn with decent shooting. If he can keep the majority of his guys meched up as long as possible, it gives him time to wear down the paladins with rending shots to force the 5+ save or some lucky autocannon ID shots; everyone can fail a 2+ save if you make them roll enough.

Hammerhand will be more useful here than cleansing flame, and holding off on assaulting as long as possible while trying to setup as many 2 squads vs 1 fights as he can will also be key.

I didn't like the paladin's list at first, but I'm seeing more potential with it now. Voting for a draw

Battle report finished.


Post-game Analysis yet to come....

pretre wrote:I love the lego chimeras. Looking forward to the report.

You know what's really cool? We had an Apoc game and Bobby built a Thunderhawk completely out of Legos! I swear, from a distance, you couldn't even tell it was made of Lego. That's how good it looked.

Artemo wrote:I see that.

My personal take is that, on the whole, I'd regard a low model count as a bonus in some ways (few KPs) and I'd rather see paladins supported by venerable dreadnoughts (which I'd GS for objective holding) than inquisitorial weaklings. I do see the point of 'chimera-cheating' (as it were) and it's not a bad idea at all. I've enjoyed all your previous reports tremendously and I'm looking forward to this one a lot. I just think a Draigo list might do for you. This one, iIm not so sure (mind you I think a Crowe-Purifier-Dreadnought list is probably the most all-round competitive of the possible GK lists)

There's actually another player in my area that plays a Draigowing but with 3 Stormravens instead. I've been trying to get a game against him but it seems as if we're never at our LGS at the same time. Oh well, next purifier-paladin matchup may be against my own Draigowing list.

Just Dave wrote:

SabrX wrote:Love the lego Chimera conversion. This will be an interesting match up. I look forward to reading the rest.

Basically my thoughts exactly.

If you get 1st turn it could be some tricky decisions also: do you shoot the chimeras and prevent the pali's rushing forwards, or do you shoot the palies as they're the real threat?

Look forward to more.

I went for a draw considering the game type and lists too...

I set out to destroy his mobility and I stuck to my plan. It actually worked out quite well as mainly the battle happened in his deployment zone. My objective was never really threatened at all so the worst that could happen for me was a draw.

Lukus83 wrote:I voted Paladins get the win. I think you could really struggle against those 2+ saves, not to mention the fact he can also get in the chimeras, pop smoke and get a 3+ cover save while he advances.

Regardless, it looks like it will be an interesting read.

Looks as if psyk-out grenades are a game-changer....and so is that damn Sanctuary power. I either had to multi-team his paladins or tie them up in combat, which was exactly what I did (at least until near the end). But Might of Titan surprised me with how easily the knights can deal with dreads (and even land raiders!). But yeah, my 1st turn of shooting really sucked thanks to his Shrouding.

omerakk wrote:If he moves max speed on turn 1 and pops smoke, that will definitely give some trouble with the cover saves. The spearhead deployment plus the fact that you are dealing with non-fortitude transports; and the terrain could still allow JV to keep him at distance for that 1 precious turn with decent shooting. If he can keep the majority of his guys meched up as long as possible, it gives him time to wear down the paladins with rending shots to force the 5+ save or some lucky autocannon ID shots; everyone can fail a 2+ save if you make them roll enough.

Hammerhand will be more useful here than cleansing flame, and holding off on assaulting as long as possible while trying to setup as many 2 squads vs 1 fights as he can will also be key.

I didn't like the paladin's list at first, but I'm seeing more potential with it now. Voting for a draw

Good analysis. Right on the money, though I barely shot at his paladins with my psyfleman dreads.

Wow, that's a quite a brawl between Paladins and Purifiers.

Librarian wrecks your Dreads and kills 6 - 7 Purifiers using Sanctuary? OUCH! On a side note, I noticed Sanctuary wasn't mentioned in the army list.

IMO even if you played the tank-shock correctly, you may still have won this game. You could have escorted the Paladins off the table by keeping a unit within 6".

Good battle report, thanks for sharing!

I think this game, more than anything, showed how great the Grey Knights Librarian is-- it really rivals the Space Marine Librarian for some of the best powers out there, and when you can take so many of them you're getting great utility.

SabrX wrote:Wow, that's a quite a brawl between Paladins and Purifiers.

Librarian wrecks your Dreads and kills 6 - 7 Purifiers using Sanctuary? OUCH! On a side note, I noticed Sanctuary wasn't mentioned in the army list

Oops! Fixed it on his list (Sanctuary, that is....also took out Warp Stabilization on his dozer chimera as I believe that is a mistake also).

With Might of Titan combined with Hammerhand, each of his paladins was hitting like a dreadknight!

Out of 11 purifiers who charged, I failed 6-7 dangerous terrain tests! I guess it kind of balances out with the previous turn of assault, where 19 of my guys only failed 1 DT test.

IMO even if you played the tank-shock correctly, you may still have won this game. You could have escorted the Paladins off the table by keeping a unit within 6".

Good battle report, thanks for sharing!

Hard to say. Not only would I try to escort them off, but I would have tried to trap them so that they would be destroyed. But with 10 more paladins around, I might have been a "little distracted". Also, while falling back, his paladins could've shot 8 psycannon shots into my rhinos to try to disable them. Yeah, they might have fallen off the board, but then they might have also done enough damage to keep me from contesting.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fetterkey wrote:I think this game, more than anything, showed how great the Grey Knights Librarian is-- it really rivals the Space Marine Librarian for some of the best powers out there, and when you can take so many of them you're getting great utility.

This game has made me re-consider the librarian in my army. Maybe at the 2500 'Ard Boyz level....

You reference your Rhino as a Chimera twice, once in deployment with Crowe behind it, and then at the end of turn 4.

Interesting game. GTK that Might and Hammerhand wreck havoc, am currently building a list with a libby in a term squad (haven't decided paladin or regular yet), and was going to give one a hammer, but after seeing this I don't think it's worth it other than maybe wound allocation.

Yet again, Crowe does amazing stuff and sweeps a unit after only killing one.. Hope Crowe starts picking it up for me, I haven't had any luck with him yet.

Another awesome report jy2.

With the Paladins, depends on what you're facing. Infantry hordes, like IG and Ork, Total survive-ability! Against AP2 or other armour ignoring things, and/or Str8+ then they're not worth it. I would gladly take a 10 man Paladin squad with Banner/Appothecary against a 110 Boy Green Tide simply to survive, tie them up for 3 or 4 game turns. One could argue that 645 points of Purifiers would do more damage to the tide, and split into combat squads that's probably true with 5 cleansing flames, but the paladins will only take like 3 wounds or less (unless charged by the tide, then 7 on that), and cause ~13 Wounds (Unless charging, then 18), which gives you another 10ish wounds and tieing them up. The Purifiers are basically gone after they make their attacks, but if all 5 charged at once them chances of many boys surviving is slim.

So IDK, Maybe not. I'd say if used correctly they can be, but they can become a major point sink! Maybe against hordes with decent armor, like hard boyz, but a purifier with a falchion has just as many attacks as a Bannered paladin at half the cost.. very difficult to tell.

invisiblade wrote:You reference your Rhino as a Chimera twice, once in deployment with Crowe behind it, and then at the end of turn 4.

Oops! Brain fart. Fixed, and thanks.

Interesting game. GTK that Might and Hammerhand wreck havoc, am currently building a list with a libby in a term squad (haven't decided paladin or regular yet), and was going to give one a hammer, but after seeing this I don't think it's worth it other than maybe wound allocation.

Well, it does let you take out the occassional monolith or insta-gib a thunderwolf without fear of getting hooded (runic weapon'd).

Yet again, Crowe does amazing stuff and sweeps a unit after only killing one.. Hope Crowe starts picking it up for me, I haven't had any luck with him yet.

While he swept the crusader henchmen unit, he did struggle to take out the smallish 3-acolyte unit. He did just so-so in this game but overall for me, he's been rocking more often than not.

Another awesome report jy2.

Thanks!

With the Paladins, depends on what you're facing. Infantry hordes, like IG and Ork, Total survive-ability! Against AP2 or other armour ignoring things, and/or Str8+ then they're not worth it. I would gladly take a 10 man Paladin squad with Banner/Appothecary against a 110 Boy Green Tide simply to survive, tie them up for 3 or 4 game turns. One could argue that 645 points of Purifiers would do more damage to the tide, and split into combat squads that's probably true with 5 cleansing flames, but the paladins will only take like 3 wounds or less (unless charged by the tide, then 7 on that), and cause ~13 Wounds (Unless charging, then 18), which gives you another 10ish wounds and tieing them up. The Purifiers are basically gone after they make their attacks, but if all 5 charged at once them chances of many boys surviving is slim.

So IDK, Maybe not. I'd say if used correctly they can be, but they can become a major point sink! Maybe against hordes with decent armor, like hard boyz, but a purifier with a falchion has just as many attacks as a Bannered paladin at half the cost.. very difficult to tell.

You're going to find a purifier GK build to be a little more all-purpose and flexible. A paladin build will be slightly more 1-dimensional. Due to their higher costs, you won't find as much support in a paladin build as you would in a purifier build. Thus, with a paladin build, there is usually only 1 way to play and that is to advance towards the heart of the enemy. With a purifier build, you can either shoot as a gunline or advance as well. That's one of the reasons why they are so good - their tactical flexibility.

And against the green tide, I would just shoot them them and then lock them up in cc with my vendreads when they get close enough. Then my purifiers can happily kill the rest of the army or go for the objectives.

The paladin list needs demonhamers. You can only cast one Might of Titian and that is only on your turn, plus it has a short range and your librarian can't be everywhere. Add to that the psychic defense that is out there, and you can see why they are necessary. In this batrep his Might of Titian did not go off the first time so he would have been in trouble after the FAQ came out.

I have no idea why he is so in love with summoning. A few bad scatters will cure him of that.

This batrep also illustrates the one big Achilles's heel that the Paladins have. They are not fearless. When you throw so many points into a unit, you need to be able to rely on that unit. All deathstars have a way around this to boost their leadership some way (For example Thunderwolf cavalry get Saga of Majesty to re-roll there leadership, Deathwing terminators are fearless), but here you have one of the most elite units in one of one of the most elite armies that can run like chickens. I lost Draigo and about 600 points of terminators to a blown morale roll the other day. So here you have a ton of points thrown into a unit with Leadership 9. This is a huge factor when comparing Purifiers to Paladins.

Blackmoor wrote:The paladin list needs demonhamers. You can only cast one Might of Titian and that is only on your turn, plus it has a short range and your librarian can't be everywhere. Add to that the psychic defense that is out there, and you can see why they are necessary. In this batrep his Might of Titian did not go off the first time so he would have been in trouble after the FAQ came out.

Agreed. I would have thrown in a hammer and some swords for wound allocation purposes.

I have no idea why he is so in love with summoning. A few bad scatters will cure him of that.

That's why he's got mystics. While the Summoning isn't game-breaking, I can see how clever application of it can really throw off the enemy.

This batrep also illustrates the one big Achilles's heel that the Paladins have. They are not fearless. When you throw so many points into a unit, you need to be able to rely on that unit. All deathstars have a way around this to boost their leadership some way (For example Thunderwolf cavalry get Saga of Majesty to re-roll there leadership, Deathwing terminators are fearless), but here you have one of the most elite units in one of one of the most elite armies that can run like chickens. I lost Draigo and about 600 points of terminators to a blown morale roll the other day. So here you have a ton of points thrown into a unit with Leadership 9. This is a huge factor when comparing Purifiers to Paladins.

At least it's better than the LD8 thunderwolves or nob units with less than 9. But I hear what you're saying. Losing fearless on the whole really hurts the entire GK army. Then again, they've gained a lot of new "toys" that makes them even better then the old daemonhunters.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just wanted to point out a couple of errors in my report (due to the game being played about 2 weeks before the batrep and shoddy memory).

1. Paladins actually shot down my vindicare on turn 2.

2. It was Coteaz who casted Sanctuary, not his librarian (I thought it was his libbie). So his original list was correct and I will go back to change it again.

Also, Bobby pointed out to me that had his paladins fallen back, they would never have fallen off the board. He would just use the Summoning to move them back (and possibly more than 6" from my units). Then again, they would also have a chance to mishap as they would have to try to deepstrike within 6" of the librarian (assuming the mystics were gone).

LOL lego chimeras FTW
OT great bat rep i voted for the paladins their as tough as b*****s to kill

Lego Chimeras and Pokemon cards, Just made my day! Awsome report.

I don't think you can use your warding stave for dangerous terrain. It is only used on CC attacks and the dangerous terrain is not a CC attack - it is a movement based damage.

Still the Paladin's build is an interesting one. I think he again needs those dreads too to help punch things far away and keep you from getting into his "scoring" units. i am meh on Summoning as it isn't worth it either.

This Battle Report delivers...

Not only does it have awesome Lego Chimeras...but it also uses Pokemon cards for wrecks/craters. Ingenious!

Great battle report, ^ Agree with whitedragon, 40k, legos, pokemon. What more could a wargamer ask for

I've played the Paladin list (actually, I've painted the paladin list, thats my banner.) with Eldar and Tau. He has yet to defeat me, but is getting closer. I do like the paladin army though, they're tough to shoot down, even with Bobby's rolling. How does your army fair with such small and few units? it seems like you would loose a lot to fire.

Nice battle report! Perhaps I'll get to face your Grey Knights sometime?

To All:

Yeah, it's this new game that we're inventing. I like to call it Legomon 40K.

GoatboyBBMA wrote:I don't think you can use your warding stave for dangerous terrain. It is only used on CC attacks and the dangerous terrain is not a CC attack - it is a movement based damage.

Still the Paladin's build is an interesting one. I think he again needs those dreads too to help punch things far away and keep you from getting into his "scoring" units. i am meh on Summoning as it isn't worth it either.

I didn't use the stave for a dangerous terrain save. I just didn't roll a '1' for his DT test (the warding stave purifier).

For his list, I'd probably drop 5 paladins, 1 chimera/henchmen unit for 3 psyflemen dreads and some henchmen meltaguns.

Gus Indo wrote:I've played the Paladin list (actually, I've painted the paladin list, thats my banner.) with Eldar and Tau. He has yet to defeat me, but is getting closer. I do like the paladin army though, they're tough to shoot down, even with Bobby's rolling. How does your army fair with such small and few units? it seems like you would loose a lot to fire.

Nice battle report! Perhaps I'll get to face your Grey Knights sometime?

Really? So who are you? I'm assuming you also frequent Game Kastle. I'm usually there on Thursday (though not all the time). Just PM (private message) me if you want to get a game going.

Yeah, my list lacks the volume of fire that some of the other lists have. Instead, when needed, I either move in for the kill with my purifiers or lock up enemy units with my dreads if my shooting can't get it done.

Paladins with Draigo attached are fearless

good battle, look forward to the rematch

daedalus-templarius wrote:Paladins with Draigo attached are fearless

good battle, look forward to the rematch

No. A fearless IC attached to a non-fearless unit loses his fearlessness.

The exception is if the IC has a special rule (i.e. chaplain) which states that the unit becomes fearless with the IC attached.

Wow, I've been doing that wrong.

I assume the squad at least gets to use his LD for tests, don't they?