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I play with my own Traitor "chapter" the glacier serpents, and after making the fluff and model for my Lord i wanted fitting rules.
What do you think?



Lord Kraxis

The Allchosen, Lord of the Glacier Serpents

The systems surrounding Karyvan is normally quite safe, being protected by the Adeptus Astartes that have their homeworld there. However, there is one thing that they all fear.
The Glacier Serpents, the Arch-Traitors, The Cold Ones.

Once, they were loyal Thunder Dragons, fighting for the emperor with great fervor.
But three thousand years ago, a powerful Daemon Prince named Z’Sath possessed Calun, a Thunder Dragons librarian. He slowly began to corrupt the chapter, going unnoticed for years. Eventually, he was discovered by Chaplain Turan Aleo, but by then it was too late.

Almost two hundred Thunder Dragons turned traitor, inflicting great damage on the planet’s infrastructure before escaping on a Battle Barge. Calun was killed by Turan, but the Daemon Prince was too strong to banish. Thus, the Chapter’s gathered Librarians bound the Daemon into a rune, which was hidden on a moon many systems away.

After Calun’s death and Z’Sath’s imprisonment, the traitors were divided. Leadership was contested between Kraxis, a former Veteran sergeant, and Sharikh, a talented former Lexicanum.
However, Kraxis was slightly stronger, both tactically and martially, and was also more popular. Thus, Sharikh became second-in command.
Training, fighting in the Eye of Terror and occasionally entering the normal world to wreak hovoc, the new-proclaimed Glacier Serpents was making a name for themselves.
However, the original warriors were dwindling in number, and so Kraxis decreed two acts. First, small groups of traitors from all kinds of chapters would be absorbed into a “rabble” squads; Marines with different colours and backgrounds, and these would act as the main fighting unit.

The other was that Sharikh would enchant all the original Serpents, increasing their might with a ritual known as the Icebinding. And so it did, raising the strength, speed and endurance of the traitors to even higher levels. However, it also made their bodies incredible cold. Sharikh meant that this was well, for none of them should feel warmth while the loyalists were still alive.

Now, the original traitors are even fewer. Only Kraxis, Sharikh and a few Terminators are still alive, though their experience has rendered them even deadlier. Kraxis has already stolen the rune in which Z’Sath was imprisoned, crafting the rune into his sword, thus taking the Daemon’s power for himself.

Now, three thousand years later, the Glacier Serpent’s fleet leaves the warp, and it has its sights set on the Optimus system….





Lord Kraxis
pts: 225?

WS7 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A4 LD10 SV2+


Wargear:
Terminator Armor
Combi-melta
Melta Bombs
Z’Sath
Mark of the Favoured (4++ save & Eternal Warrior)

Z’Sath: Z’Sath is a power weapon that grants +1 strength, +D6 attacks (roll each turn) and forces the enemy to reroll successful invulnerable saves.
Z'Sath is not loyal, and so if a 1 is rolled for the bonus attacks, no attacks are made, just like a normal Daemon Weapon.
However, over the years Kraxis has began to get control over his blade, half due to his on strength of will, half due to his Master Sorcerer's incantations.
Unlike normal Daemon Weapons, Kraxis does not damage himself if a 1 is rolled for the attacks by the weapon.

Special rules:
Fearless, Independent Character, The Iceborn, Tactical Mastery, 4+ invulnerable save.

The Icebound
The warriors that accompany their leader to war is the elite of the Glacier Serpents; the best of the best. Pick a Chaos Chosen squad or a Chaos Terminator squad. That squad (not including Independent Characters) has +1 WS. However, there is no more than five of the original ex-Thunder Dragons left. As a result, the squad chosen to get this bonus may not number more than five models (not including Independent Characters)

Tactical Mastery
In an army that is lead by Kraxis, Chosen are scoring units.

So you have a bloodfeeder which wounds everything on a 4+ and causes instant death, as well as having a shooting attack.. The Daemon weapons is kind of overpowered..

This character is ridiculously overpowered, the amount of attacks and sheer invubrabillity of this character is obviously stupid. He's better than Abaddon who's the chosen of the Chaos Gods.

Also it should re-roll reserve rolls only while he is still kicking

Well, negative responses on rules. What about the fluff?
(i've written tons more, i just thought this would be enough here)

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Well, negative responses on rules. What about the fluff?
(i've written tons more, i just thought this would be enough here)

Nothing in the fluff indicates why he would be so heavily favored by all the Chaos Gods (even moreso than Abaddon?). Abaddon has held the Black Legion together for millenia, led 13 Black Crusades and nearly toppled Cadia, one of the most heavily defended worlds in the Imperium. There's a reason he's the Chaos gods' favorite. Your boy Kraxis doesn't even begin to compare.

That said, the fluff seems pretty decent, and seems like a nice jumping off point for a more in-depth writeup. They feel a bit like Red Corsairs (though you don't indicate why these other renegades would join up with Kraxis and crew).

i feel a little bad about Abaddon, since if he is truly the champion of the chaos gods, why is he so weak? but sure, i will edit the stats.


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Since it is his daemon weapon that most feel angry about, i fixed that. And if you have any better idea about how i can represent that he is too favoured by all the gods, please tell me, because i do not see very much of another way.


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And, as i said, i've written tons more; i only put up as much as i thought most would read


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Why? Because they entered an area of the Eye where there were no large chaos space marine factions. Thus, they could assimilate (in different ways, such as defeating their leader) the small renegade forces there.

Just use him as Abbadon, he's still far too powerful.

Really like it. Think the rules are spot on. Compare him to Ahriman though, who is 250 pts BUT is frankly awful This means comparing him to other chaos characters is pretty useless, since they are mostly well.. bad. So I tink roughly 250 pts? Really liking it so far though!
Sqallum

Thanks for the first positive answer!


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And, blood reaper, if you think he is OP go whine over mephiston instead. He is at least not S6 and T6.
For your information, i did not make these rules because this is what my army list needed. i made the fluff first, the model second and now the rules. IMO, the rules make sense.

After the edits, this all sounds good! Failbaddon is an obvious example of how old-school the CSM codex is; just compare him with modern special characters. But i'd like to see a little moar fluff about Kraxis himself.

Rules do not always go together with fluff; Abaddon has epic fluff but he is worthless in the rules, Mephiston got cured from a psychic disease and became hard as a Carnifex etc.

You've left out the 5++ save Terminator armour gives.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:i feel a little bad about Abaddon, since if he is truly the champion of the chaos gods, why is he so weak?

This I just don't get. Have you read Abaddon's rules? How is a powerfist striking in initiative order weak? And fluff-wise, he isn't weak either, as he has routinely attacked one of the strongest points in the Imperium and nearly overwhelmed them.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Since it is his daemon weapon that most feel angry about, i fixed that. And if you have any better idea about how i can represent that he is too favoured by all the gods, please tell me, because i do not see very much of another way.

I notice that you actually didn't answer my question (it's possible it got lost in the shuffle), so I'll ask it again. Why is Kraxis favored by all of the Chaos gods? What has he done to draw the favor of all four gods? Keep in mind that there are plenty of Chaos Lords who are bad mofos, and they haven't gotten the same treatment (rules-wise, these would be Undivided Chaos Lords).

Also, his Daemon weapon just seems ... cobbled together. Is there a reason a regular Chaos Undivided Daemon weapon + the melta bombs rule isn't enough? What is so special about Z'Sath that makes this weapon so much better than any other equivalent. Also, what god made Z'Sath a Daemon Prince? Wouldn't that effect what powers Z'Sath can grant?

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Why? Because they entered an area of the Eye where there were no large chaos space marine factions. Thus, they could assimilate (in different ways, such as defeating their leader) the small renegade forces there.

So the warband grows by conquest then? And these other renegades follow Kraxis simply because he has shown himself to be the strongest?

Sounds like martial pride and prowess is what these fellows prize the most. That sounds like a good basis for a Khornate warband to me.

The reason I'm asking these questions, is that the fluff (the "why") is important, as it will give a good guide for creating and evaluating rules for your characters and warband.

This I just don't get. Have you read Abaddon's rules? How is a powerfist striking in initiative order weak? And fluff-wise, he isn't weak either, as he has routinely attacked one of the strongest points in the Imperium and nearly overwhelmed them.

I have read the rules, yes. And since the Chaos codex is so comparatively old, their characters cant really be compared with new ones; 1. having WS6 when you have practiced fencing for more than 10.000 years seems pathetic, and 2. he is really bad in the game: if you use him alone, he will get shot by plasma guns and lascannons, and if you put him in, for example, a terminator squad, they will get a bucketload of leadership tests (especially if you fight DE, this is the classic anti-baddon tactic) inevitably fail one, and then get escorted off the battlefield by a small, cheap unit like a land speeder. Especially if the enemy have been able to kill 4 of the, say, 5 terminators, in which case they cant rally anyway. Also, Draigo also costs 275 pts, and he is MUCH better. my money's on draigo.

I notice that you actually didn't answer my question (it's possible it got lost in the shuffle), so I'll ask it again. Why is Kraxis favored by all of the Chaos gods? What has he done to draw the favor of all four gods? Keep in mind that there are plenty of Chaos Lords who are bad mofos, and they haven't gotten the same treatment (rules-wise, these would be Undivided Chaos Lords).

Allow me to quote myself.

And, as i said, i've written tons more; i only put up as much as i thought most would read

So the warband grows by conquest then? And these other renegades follow Kraxis simply because he has shown himself to be the strongest?

Sounds like martial pride and prowess is what these fellows prize the most. That sounds like a good basis for a Khornate warband to me.

The reason I'm asking these questions, is that the fluff (the "why") is important, as it will give a good guide for creating and evaluating rules for your characters and warband.

Same as above, i have more fluff explaining it all; i can put it up here if you want.

Also, his Daemon weapon just seems ... cobbled together. Is there a reason a regular Chaos Undivided Daemon weapon + the melta bombs rule isn't enough? What is so special about Z'Sath that makes this weapon so much better than any other equivalent. Also, what god made Z'Sath a Daemon Prince? Wouldn't that effect what powers Z'Sath can grant?

Unlike in the other cases, Z'sath is one i won't explain. He's a mystery, that's the point.

Also, thank you for making criticism at least more constructive than "this character is ridiculously overpowered"

BrotherHaraldus wrote:and if you put him in, for example, a terminator squad, they will get a bucketload of leadership tests (especially if you fight DE, this is the classic anti-baddon tactic) inevitably fail one, and then get escorted off the battlefield by a small, cheap unit like a land speeder.

We could debate the benefits and weaknesses of Abaddon, but that isn't what you came here for, right? I will just say these two things:

1. Don't believe everything you read on the forums (I've quite literally seen the leadership argument word-for-word here). A Landraider full of Abaddon and termies will carve a nice whole through pretty much anything. But yes, every special character has weaknesses. (And yes, the Chaos codex is older and in need of an update. Rumor has it this will happen some time next year.) And if you walk Abaddon across the board with nothing but a handful of termies as an escort, your problem isn't Abaddon, it's your tactics.

2. Draigo shouldn't be used as a measuring stick for anything.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Allow me to quote myself.

And, as i said, i've written tons more; i only put up as much as i thought most would read

Same as above, i have more fluff explaining it all; i can put it up here if you want.

Well, you don't seem to want to. I'm trying to help you with an evaluation of your special character. From my perspective, the fluff is what should drive the rules for your character, not a shopping list of awesome abilities hand-picked from the Chaos codex.

So yeah, I would find it immensely helpful to have your extra background material here. It would help me, at least, provide you with better feedback.

But given that this is my third attempt at asking for it, I can't help but think you aren't interested in sharing that info (which is your prerogative, of course). If you decide to share it, I will give the best feedback I can.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Unlike in the other cases, Z'sath is one i won't explain. He's a mystery, that's the point.

I'm a bit confused at this. I don't actually care what the mystery is, as this isn't some novel or short story I'm reading (my criticism would be vastly different if it was). I'm asking because it would be helpful in determining appropriate rules. If you haven't actually decided how Z'sath came to be, that's fine, just say so. But you need to realize that you are not a leprechaun, and this background material isn't some pot of gold that you need to hide and protect.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Also, thank you for making criticism at least more constructive than "this character is ridiculously overpowered"

Not a problem, I enjoy it when someone obviously has a theme or fluff for their army, and wants to create something special for it. I like to be as helpful as I can in that regard (which often means constructive criticism). If you don't want any help, feel free to tell me to get lost.

First of all, i just want to state to some people on this thread that you will lkely never meet this character. Therefore, raging is useless.

A Landraider full of Abaddon and termies will carve a nice whole through pretty much anything

I humbly disagree, but as you said, we should discuss that elsewhere.

2. Draigo shouldn't be used as a measuring stick for anything.

'

true that too, but the same, that should be discussed in another thread.

Well, you don't seem to want to. I'm trying to help you with an evaluation of your special character. From my perspective, the fluff is what should drive the rules for your character, not a shopping list of awesome abilities hand-picked from the Chaos codex.

So yeah, I would find it immensely helpful to have your extra background material here. It would help me, at least, provide you with better feedback.

But given that this is my third attempt at asking for it, I can't help but think you aren't interested in sharing that info (which is your prerogative, of course). If you decide to share it, I will give the best feedback I can.

I'd love to, but so far noone asked. Anyway, i wont put the whole story up here for simplicity; i will say the most important things. I have used logic for each stat. WS: unlike most (WS6) chaos lords that might have lived for 500-600 years, (or SM captains for that matter) this guy has fought for three thousand years. I therefore decided to give him fitting WS and BS values, to represent the skill that comes with practice, experience and talent. S,T,LD, and SV: nothing strange there. A: same as Ws&BS. His special rules is more appearent.

About Z'Sath; well, i have written some fluff but not all of it, but let's say that this Daemon is something above the norm; maybe his Daemonic title "The Treacherous" explains something? (eg, he offers his loyalty to one of the chaos gods, before swiflty changing allegiances. He has done this maaaaaany times, yet the Gods accept him every time, either finding this amusing or thinking that the slaughter he provides while his loyalty is still theirs is enough.)

if you want to see more of my fluff, i have put it up where it belongs; the Background section. by the way, if you have any suggestions of rules or fluff (perhaps after reading it) then i'd love to hear it. Also, soem criticism of my fluff would also be nice.
All serious suggestions are welcome.






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And, about why he is chosen by the four gods? well that is one point that i havent made quite up yet (i know he will be that, not for the rules but because the model i've made strongly suggests it), which is a slight deviation from my "fluff first, models second, rules last" policy.

Most Chaos Lords are far older than 500. A lot of them are Heresy-era marines who now have their own warband.

I like it so far, but I would evaluate the cost to about.... 260 points?
Sqallum

BrotherHaraldus wrote:I'd love to, but so far noone asked.

I was under the impression that I have, at least three times. But obviously I wasn't clear (sorry about that), so consider this my official request to see more of the background for the Glacier Serpents. I've read what you put on the Background forum (this thread for those who are interested). If there's more, by all means please post it up.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Anyway, i wont put the whole story up here for simplicity; i will say the most important things. I have used logic for each stat. WS: unlike most (WS6) chaos lords that might have lived for 500-600 years, (or SM captains for that matter) this guy has fought for three thousand years. I therefore decided to give him fitting WS and BS values, to represent the skill that comes with practice, experience and talent. S,T,LD, and SV: nothing strange there. A: same as Ws&BS. His special rules is more appearent.

Fair enough. Many of the chaos lords in the codex are Horus Heresy era veterans (possibly 10,000 years old or more) though, so while this seems a bit flimsy to rest your decision on, so be it. He's an exceptionally skilled melee combatant, even for a Chaos Lord. I don't have my books in front of me, but this may actually put him on par skill wise with Lucius the eternal (so you may want to possibly re-think it), but I could be mistaken. It is difficult to reflect skill in a 1 to 10 system though, so I can understand the desire to bump up his WS. Just be aware that it says certain things about him, and how skilled he is in relation to other characters in the 40K universe. At any rate, from a balance perspective, a 1 point bump in WS isn't a huge deal. However, changing stats should be a meaningful thing, IMO, so don't do it willy-nilly. If there isn't really a good reason to bump it up other than, "I want to", you may want to reconsider (after all, it isn't much one way or the other).

Your fluff seems to indicate that this might be a combination of skill, practice, psychic ability, and daemon weapon enhancment. It couldn't hurt to go into more detail as to just what makes him a more skilled bladesman.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:About Z'Sath; well, i have written some fluff but not all of it, but let's say that this Daemon is something above the norm; maybe his Daemonic title "The Treacherous" explains something? (eg, he offers his loyalty to one of the chaos gods, before swiflty changing allegiances. He has done this maaaaaany times, yet the Gods accept him every time, either finding this amusing or thinking that the slaughter he provides while his loyalty is still theirs is enough.)

You seem to be under the impression that the "favor" of a chaos god is something that, once given, can't be taken away. The recent stories surrounding the battle between Horus and the Emperor seem to indicate the opposite. Perhaps Z'Sath has found a way to steal or siphon power? This could be an interesting twist, just something to consider. But let's get to the rules you've posted up.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Z’Sath: Z’Sath is a Daemon Weapon
that allows you to choose each turn which bonus you want.
It also grants Melta Bombs to the user.

If you mean that Z'Sath can only grant the benefit of one mark at a time, then this seems like a more reasonable approach than it first appeared. I still have to ask why you feel it should mimic existing daemon weapons, especially since this daemon is "something above the norm". I'd strongly suggest revisiting the Daemon weapon to see if maybe there is something special you can do here, rather than a (honestly) boring swiss army daemon weapon. You have an opportunity here, and I'd hate to see you waste it.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Special rules:
Will of Chaos

What does this do?

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Stubborn

Ok, but why? What about Kraxis makes him Stubborn instead of Fearless like every other Chaos Lord?

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Tactical Mastery

This seems ok, but in all honesty, I got the feeling from your fluff that this sort of thing would be better placed on Sharikh (the sorcerer) rather than on Kraxis. Dealing with reserve rolls seems to be a communication or psychic thing, given what I've seen in other codexes.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Supreme lord

This seems decent enough, and makes Kraxis more of a force multiplier rather than a simple beat-stick. It even sort of makes sense with your fluff (the Icebinding, with those who have undergone it effectively elevated to the same level as a Chosen marine - thus explaining why you'd have more of them). That said, I'd scrap either this rule or the "Chosen of Kraxis" rule. Probably the latter, and this rule is just flat out better, and better conveys your fluff. Maybe rename this rule to reflect that?

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Psychic talent

Balance wise, this doesn't seem all that unbalancing, but I'm confused as to why this is even here. If he's got psychic talents, why wasn't he undergoing librarian training in the Thunder Dragons? If he acquired them later somehow, then how? The singular re-roll isn't terribly spectacular either, so really, why is this rule needed, and what does it really add fluff-wise? Can it be achieved in some other manner?

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Chosen of Kraxis

As I mentioned above, this rule just feels out of place. Why are Kraxis' warriors simply more martially capable than any other chaos marines (aside from Khorne Berzerkers)? You already let an army led by Kraxis take Chosen, so why is this in there too?

BrotherHaraldus wrote:5+ invulnerable save.

Chaos Lords come with this one as standard, so it's fine.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:And, about why he is chosen by the four gods? well that is one point that i havent made quite up yet (i know he will be that, not for the rules but because the model i've made strongly suggests it), which is a slight deviation from my "fluff first, models second, rules last" policy.

I would suggest not duplicating Abaddon's Mark of Chaos Ascendant (mainly because I believe the fluff for it indicates it is a unique mark). All four ruinous powers could have plans for him, but try to reflect that in some other way. Also, why isn't Kraxis a daemon prince by this point? This, again, is a good opportunity to create something unique to your character, and not just shop for the best of the best in the Chaos codex (which is why people are calling your stuff overpowered). Maybe some sort of protection against psychic powers? Or better yet, this could be a very good reason for giving him Eternal Warrior.

You have made a lot of good points, let me answer them:

I was under the impression that I have, at least three times. But obviously I wasn't clear (sorry about that), so consider this my official request to see more of the background for the Glacier Serpents. I've read what you put on the Background forum (this thread for those who are interested). If there's more, by all means please post it up.

I will, but the other things first.

Fair enough. Many of the chaos lords in the codex are Horus Heresy era veterans (possibly 10,000 years old or more) though, so while this seems a bit flimsy to rest your decision on, so be it. He's an exceptionally skilled melee combatant, even for a Chaos Lord. I don't have my books in front of me, but this may actually put him on par skill wise with Lucius the eternal (so you may want to possibly re-think it), but I could be mistaken. It is difficult to reflect skill in a 1 to 10 system though, so I can understand the desire to bump up his WS. Just be aware that it says certain things about him, and how skilled he is in relation to other characters in the 40K universe. At any rate, from a balance perspective, a 1 point bump in WS isn't a huge deal. However, changing stats should be a meaningful thing, IMO, so don't do it willy-nilly. If there isn't really a good reason to bump it up other than, "I want to", you may want to reconsider (after all, it isn't much one way or the other).

As I said, the chaos codex is old, made on the time when having a WS of 6 was about max (with the exception of super-special characters, and Eldar)

IIRC, Lucius has WS6. just look at the abundance of GK characters that would be outfought by Lucius. And they have WS 7+

If you mean that Z'Sath can only grant the benefit of one mark at a time, then this seems like a more reasonable approach than it first appeared. I still have to ask why you feel it should mimic existing daemon weapons, especially since this daemon is "something above the norm". I'd strongly suggest revisiting the Daemon weapon to see if maybe there is something special you can do here, rather than a (honestly) boring swiss army daemon weapon. You have an opportunity here, and I'd hate to see you waste it.

Very good idea, I'll consider writing it into my story. Have any suggestions for the rules, meantime?

The reason i did not want to give him fearless, and instead give him stubborn and Will of Chaos (ATSKNF) was that this guy is in no means less brave than the others- he just knows when to fight on and when to retreat and counterattack. A little like Ultramarines, but not as well obviously so no Combat Tactics here.

I would suggest not duplicating Abaddon's Mark of Chaos Ascendant (mainly because I believe the fluff for it indicates it is a unique mark). All four ruinous powers could have plans for him, but try to reflect that in some other way. Also, why isn't Kraxis a daemon prince by this point? This, again, is a good opportunity to create something unique to your character, and not just shop for the best of the best in the Chaos codex (which is why people are calling your stuff overpowered). Maybe some sort of protection against psychic powers? Or better yet, this could be a very good reason for giving him Eternal Warrior.

If you find a better way to represent it, please tell me, I'd love to hear it. ( I mean it)
Why he isn't a Daemon Prince? Well, why is not Abaddon a Daemon Prince? Kharn? Lucius? Ahriman? Simply, (by chance entirely)some have avoided it.












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The other points of yours next, first things first.


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Balance wise, this doesn't seem all that unbalancing, but I'm confused as to why this is even here. If he's got psychic talents, why wasn't he undergoing librarian training in the Thunder Dragons? If he acquired them later somehow, then how? The singular re-roll isn't terribly spectacular either, so really, why is this rule needed, and what does it really add fluff-wise? Can it be achieved in some other manner?

Because i wanted to give him a little "touch" that still would not be so strong as to make people angry. I can remove it if you like, but if you want to, then please find some suggestions to add something or change something and not just remove (and tell me what you want me to change to)



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I've made rules for Cultists, "Heretics" too. Here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/403529.page
11th post.

1: Why are your marines better than other marines who have fought through the battles of Terra, Cadia and so on
2: Why the mark of Chaos Ascendent, it belongs to Abbadon for a reason. Remove it, he doesn't need it with the profile.
3: Your Daemon weapon is ridiculous, whatever bonus he wants is just a pointless rule. Remove that and its fine.

That is all.

Mr. blood reaper, please stop answering to this thread. Your answers are not helpful at all, therefore you might as well go somewhere else. I remind you that you won't meet this character; therefore demanding that his most defining traits should be removed is pointless.
If you hate non-vanilla stuff, then you are in the wrong section.
You barely know who this character is. And why do you keep whining about the weapon? You raged at my prototype, so i reduced it's power greatly. yet you keep raging.
If you find him overpowered, go whine on the logic of Mr. Draigo's S5 and T5, or Mephiston, who got cured from a psychic sickness and now can take more punishment than a Carnifex.

In fairness, telling someone not to comment on a character because they'll never meet them likely cuts out 99.9% of the forum. You asked for opinions and he gave his.

As for the weapon, a unique effect like ignoring invulnerable saves would be more interesting than picking powers IMO.

O'rly?

You asked for C&C, I gave it too you and when I criticize your over powered character you tell me not to post.

If you don't won't Criticism, don't post on Dakka.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:"The Treacherous" explains something? (eg, he offers his loyalty to one of the chaos gods, before swiflty changing allegiances. He has done this maaaaaany times, yet the Gods accept him every time, either finding this amusing or thinking that the slaughter he provides while his loyalty is still theirs is enough.)

I seem to recall something very much like this, from not too long ago. I'll see if I can find the thread.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:"The Treacherous" explains something? (eg, he offers his loyalty to one of the chaos gods, before swiflty changing allegiances. He has done this maaaaaany times, yet the Gods accept him every time, either finding this amusing or thinking that the slaughter he provides while his loyalty is still theirs is enough.)

Just saw this, so I'm going to point out that the Chaos Gods giveth, and they taketh away.

[url]

Deadshot wrote:

BrotherHaraldus wrote:"The Treacherous" explains something? (eg, he offers his loyalty to one of the chaos gods, before swiflty changing allegiances. He has done this maaaaaany times, yet the Gods accept him every time, either finding this amusing or thinking that the slaughter he provides while his loyalty is still theirs is enough.)

I seem to recall something very much like this, from not too long ago. I'll see if I can find the thread.

Found it! Turns out I made a thread for a DP called The Treacherous! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/402011.page#3424966

It seems it may have been copied.....

I'm fine with it if it has. An aknowledgement would have been nice, but I'm in too good a mood to care.