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2K Competitive - Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs Reecius' Bjorn Space Wolves (Completed)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Can Necrons compete with the mighty Space Wolves?
Yes, necrons have the resiliency to survive all those missiles.
Draw.
No. Wraiths will not survive long enough to hurt the wolves in combat.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

I decided to take a break from my Maximum Threat Overload necrons and to try something a little different....Wraithwing necrons. This is still a very competitive necron build IMO and maybe a little more resilient than my MTO necrons. Though it may not be as fast as my MTO necrons, it's got better shooting. And it still has 5 fast threats (as opposed to 7 fast threats in my MTO list) which is still a respectable number of pressure units.

Against my necrons, Reece decided to bring his A-game - his tournament-winning Bjorn Missile-spam Space Wolves. IMO this is easily his best and most successful army. He's won numerous tournaments with them, including 1st place at the Ard Boyz Semi-finals. His Bjorn-wolves also won 5th overall (out of about 250) at Adepticon 2011.

This would be a great challenge for my necrons. If my necrons can hold their own against Reece's space wolves, then I can say with confidence that necrons can definitely compete with some of the best tournament armies out there.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


2000 Wraithwing Necrons vs Bjorn-Missile Space Wolves


2K Necrons (Jy2)

Necron Overlord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Weave
Catacomb Command Barge

4x Cryptek - Harbinger of Destruction, Solar Pulse

Necron Overlord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Weave
Catacomb Command Barge

3x Cryptek - Harbinger of Destruction, Solar Pulse

5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors

6x Canoptek Wraiths - 4x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Blaster
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 4x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Blaster
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 4x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Blaster

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge


2K Space Wolves (Reecius)

I forgot to take his list with me, so this list is going off memory.

Bjorn the Fell-handed
Rune Priest - Jaws of the World Wolf, Stormcaller

Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, TL-Lascannon
Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, TL-Lascannon

5x Grey Hunters - Flamer, Razorback w/TL-Assault Cannons
5x Grey Hunters - Flamer, Razorback w/TL-Assault Cannons
5x Grey Hunters - Meltagun, Razorback w/TL-Lascannons
5x Grey Hunters - Meltagun, Razorback w/TL-Lascannons

Land Speeder Typhoon - Heavy Bolter
Land Speeder Typhoon - Heavy Bolter
Land Speeder Typhoon - Heavy Bolter

6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers
Razorback - TL-Heavy Bolters


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Seize Ground - 4 Objectives

Deployment: Pitched Battle

Initiative: Space Wolves


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Coming up next.....Pre-game commentaries.


This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/01/21 19:35:00



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Good golly, is that reece's normal list? Looks like it was put together to beat necrons. I'm a scrubby, but haven't assault cannons and heavy bolters been out of favor for some time?

And look at all those heavy flamers and lascannons! This is going to be an uphill battle for necron players relying on warriors or shielding!

Also a question: How often does the weave on your overlord's matter and for the turns that it does come up, is the extra fraction of a better save worth the points(given 3++ and an av13 transport)? I'm just thinking about having more crypteks here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/20 11:42:07


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Hmm, that space wolf list seems lacking in close combat power. Shooting is there, but double pulses should reduce some of the turn1 pain.

With no ghost arks the 7 crypteks seem wasteful, 2 for pulses is of course great but 175 points on fragile footslogging 24 inch shots?

My prediction is that the ccb and lord will win or lose the game for the crons. If the ccb get sweeps and assaults that neuter the dreads and razors, then the wraiths advance and clean up.

If the ccbs either fail to deal damage or get ignored completely in favor of wiping the wraiths off the table, then the wolves superior troops and range will put them on top starting turn 3.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/20 13:31:59


 
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior





I missed seeing this list around the internet and can't wait to see how it does against Necrons.

Reece with this list is pretty darn scary so I'd have to go with him on this one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/20 15:36:44


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Made in us
Latest Wrack in the Pits




Decatur, TN

Have you found the annihilation barges worth it? Everytime I have played vs them they haven't done squat.

My money is on the crons, SW will have a tough time vs the wraiths without a dedicated close combat unit and I think (depending on deployment) that the 2 pulses can effectively negate some long fangs. And without the long fangs shooting this list doesn't have much teeth.

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Made in us
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





Atlanta, Ga

Wraiths will probably get smashed by the Dreads in Close Combat, especially with Bjorn in the picture. Don't get me wrong, S6 rending is scary; however, if Reece plays it right, jy will have a fought time getting his preferred assaults.


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





New York / Los Angeles

I like the 18 wraiths in this match up, and the 7 lance crypteks. Abarges are great for what they cost, cheap, expendible, High priority targets.

2 Solar Pulses should be enough to get those necrons into killing position; but reece isn't short on high priority targets himself; so crazy aggression on Jy2's behalf, and careful resource management on Reece's side will make this a stressful match up. Looks good for necrons though.

Soon to add

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Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Jacksonville, NC

Wolves.

Acute Senses will see to it that those fangs will do a good bit of damage to the wraiths before they get there; after those are gone I feel reece has little to fear!

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It comes down to which guy gets to the others troops first. This Game hinges on objectives so tearing up each others threats only gets you so far. Those annihilation barges will surely target the speeders so he doesn't late game contest, while I imagine the wolves will go for the barges of either type first as well.




Also the jaws priest is a fairly sexy deterrent for those wraiths as is Bjorn!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I were Reece I would let the crons have first turn and reserve my speeders. He won't see much even with acute senses turn 1. Surely jy2 will reserve his troops to protect them.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/01/20 20:22:11


   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

I actually got 4th at Adepticon! Haha.

My thoughts on this game were:

I had plenty of weapons capable of taking down Wraiths. With intelligent deployment and use of Searchlights, plus Acute senses, I should be able to take out a unit of Wraiths a turn. If I deployed in such a fashion as to maximize the amount of distance between my opponent and I, I would get at least 3 turns of shooting it I went first, two if I went second.

That means, I should be able to wipe out the Wraiths before they get to me, and if needed, tarpit them with Bjorn.

Once the Wraiths were neutralized, I could send Grey Hunters up the board to take out the MSU Warrior squads, and carpet bomb them with Fangs.

I felt confident going into this game that I would shoot the Crons off the table so long as I played smart.

While JotWW doesn't work on Wraiths, it will be great for sniping Crypteks.

   
Made in us
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard






San Diego

I'm interested to see that Jy2 is taking Annihilation Barges instead of the usual Doomscythes in previous renditions of the list. I wonder if that was a move designed to give him an advantage against an army with lots of ranged superiority. Since they outrange everything in Reece's list it seems like they are a better choice than the Doomscythes. The Doomscythes can be pelted to death with tons of missiles since they need to get close for the Death Ray to function, and Reece's entire list has Searchlights and Accute Senses, making Night Fight a less viable protection strategy.

The other notable change is the lack of the Scarab Farm in favor of additional Wraiths. That might make the Dreadnoughts a little more valuable since it will be easier to tarpit the Wraiths if there is no threat of Entropic Strike gutting them.

Definitely an interesting prospect, and I'll be waiting to see how it turns out. I think the Space Wolves have the edge here, but the Annihilation Barges will be tough to take down if they are stuck across the board.

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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine






Aldarionn wrote:I'm interested to see that Jy2 is taking Annihilation Barges instead of the usual Doomscythes in previous renditions of the list. I wonder if that was a move designed to give him an advantage against an army with lots of ranged superiority. Since they outrange everything in Reece's list it seems like they are a better choice than the Doomscythes. The Doomscythes can be pelted to death with tons of missiles since they need to get close for the Death Ray to function, and Reece's entire list has Searchlights and Accute Senses, making Night Fight a less viable protection strategy.

Definitely an interesting prospect, and I'll be waiting to see how it turns out. I think the Space Wolves have the edge here, but the Annihilation Barges will be tough to take down if they are stuck across the board.


I think youre confusing Annilation Barges with the Doomsday Arc. The Arc is Long range Annilation barge is 24" and is only a skimmer, not a fast skimmer so can only move 6" and fire 1 weapon. Technically death ray has longer reach than a barge since a Scythe can move 12, the death ray can pinpoint up to 12" +3d6 line, and has a destructor that can also fire at any of the targets hit. Annilation barge is more defensive with AV 13 because of quantum shielding so I think he took it for defensive reasons as Scythes are offensive.

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2250+

2500++ (Wraithwing)

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Sinewy Scourge





Lodi CA

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out.










 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Necrons:
This is another competitive necron build that I had wanted to try out. IMO wraiths are one of the best units in the codex. Thus it would make sense that an army consisting of mostly wraiths would also be one of the most competitive builds in the codex. Then supporting the wraiths are probably the 2nd best units in the codex - scythe overlords in command barges. Finally, I tried to balance out my army with some shooting. Crypteks with Eldritch Lance are good units as well as the annihilation barges. They aren't as spectacular as the doom scythes, but they are more durable and more consistent in performance in the long run.

Now I did not know what Reece was going to bring against my army, but I was glad when he decided to bring his space wolves (BTW, he also didn't know what I was bringing). Then again, as TAC tournament lists (Take-All-Comer's), both of us weren't really too concerned about what each other brought.

His army is really dangerous. If he plays it right, night-fight should not be a concern at all. He will have to sacrifice a couple of transports in order to searchlight my wraiths (and perhaps command barges), but the rewards are well worth the risk. He's got an incredible amount of long-ranged dakka - 21 S8 missiles, 4 tl S9 lascannons, 8 S6 assault cannons and 12 S5 heavy bolter shots. He can potentially wipe out 1 squad of wraiths a turn with all those insta-killing shots. And if he deploys correctly, he may get 2 or even 3 turns of shooting at me. The key to a necron victory is how well I can survive his shooting.

While his grey hunters are not that strong in assault, that's why he's got 3 dreads. Dreads are mainly counter-assault units meant to tie up my more assaulty units. I feel I can take out his regular dreads, but Bjorn will be a problem.

One of the pitfalls that Reece has to watch out for is to not play as a pure gunline against me. While his static units - his long fangs - won't be moving much. His grey hunters and dreads need to be advancing. Otherwise, I will have the Positional Dominance and advantage in this game. With all my lances and annihilation barges, he cannot rely on a last-turn objective contest with his land speeders. His transports need to be advancing at least by turn 2.


Space Wolves: (by Reecius)
I had plenty of weapons capable of taking down Wraiths. With intelligent deployment and use of Searchlights, plus Acute senses, I should be able to take out a unit of Wraiths a turn. If I deployed in such a fashion as to maximize the amount of distance between my opponent and I, I would get at least 3 turns of shooting it I went first, two if I went second.

That means, I should be able to wipe out the Wraiths before they get to me, and if needed, tarpit them with Bjorn.

Once the Wraiths were neutralized, I could send Grey Hunters up the board to take out the MSU Warrior squads, and carpet bomb them with Fangs.

I felt confident going into this game that I would shoot the Crons off the table so long as I played smart.

While JotWW doesn't work on Wraiths, it will be great for sniping Crypteks.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Map of the terrain.

BTW, for those who may be interested, Reece's company Frontline Gaming actually builds and sells all the terrain you see here in these battle reports. As a matter of fact, they have a very cool product called Table in a Box that has everything you need terrain-wise to play a game of 40k.

Anyways, back to the game....


Space Wolf deployment to the left (from my perspective)....


....and to the right. He leaves 2 squads of grey hunters in reserves.

Now this is how you deploy against my necrons. Everything spread out and everything as far away from my army as possible. This will guarantee him 3 rounds of shooting unless I can steal the initiative. I think I'm going to have my work cut out for me.


Necron deployment. Unfinished wraiths will represent my whip coils.


Another perspective of my deployment. I deploy all my warriors on the board because I wanted them shooting from Turn 1. Command barges on the outsides. Annihilation barges on the insides. No reserves.

I don't steal the initiative and we begin. Turn 1 will be crucial. How my opponent's shooting fare may well set the tone for the game.


--------------------------------------------------------------


Space Wolves 1
Night-fight due to Solar Pulse #1.


Right razor (with Rune Priest) and land speeder typhoon advance. Searchlight #1 pops smokes.


Razorback and Bjorn move right up the middle. Searchlight #2.


Finally, to the far left, Searchlight #3 moves up and pops smokes.


He searchlights my left wraiths and 3/5 of his army unloads onto them. Unfortunately for him, he only kills 2 wraiths and put 1W on a 3rd wraith.


My opponent also successfully searchlights my right wraiths. The other 2/5 of his army fires on them and only manage to do a total of 1W!!!

Wow!!! My saves were hot!!! His entire army shot at my wraiths and I only lost a total of 2! That was a great start for me. Now let's see if I can weather another 2 rounds of Space Wolf shooting.


Necrons 1

Left command barge flies over his asscan razorback and immobilize it with my sweep attack.


Right command barge stops just in front of his middle razorback. I didn't have enough movement to fly over it.


Necron movement on the right.


In the middle.


And on the left side.


Lance-teks (crypteks with eldritch lance) immobilize the right speeder.


They also wreck the middle razorback (which was empty).

That is all my shooting was able to do. Right annihilation barge (AB) did not have a target (because my lance-teks wrecked the middle razor) and left annihilation barge is just out of range of his left, immobilized razor.

Wraiths run.


Space Wolves 2

Overview of the top of Turn 2. Night-fight due to Solar Pulse #2. 1 unit of grey hunters come in from reserves and embark onto an empty razorback.


Right razor advances. Rune Priest (who is actually in the transport) fails to cast Stormcaller due to and takes 1W from Perils.


Left grey hunters disembark and move towards my wraiths.


Old man Bjorn advances.


His immobilized razor searchlights my command barge. Long fangs then blow it up, killing 1 grey hunter in the explosion.


Bjorn searchlights my other command barge. I believe it is a lascannon that blows it up this time.


The rest of his shooting kills another 1 wraith on the left.


His razor searchlights my right wraiths and missiles down another 2 wraiths only.

His shooting is much better this turn as he takes out both command barges and 3 wraiths.


The Old Man then assaults my Overlord....


....and knocks him down. My Overlord doesn't get back up again.


Finally, his grey hunters assault my wraiths. I kill 2 and he kills 1. Hunters stick around.


Necrons 2

Overlord advances. It's all about putting pressure on your opponent.


Warriors shuffle around. AB moves forwards.


Necron movement on the right. Wraiths ignore the RP's razor and advance instead. Reece was trying to bait my wraiths with it but I wasn't falling for it. My lance-teks will take care of his HQ's razor.


Middle wraiths go after Bjorn. Now I could have sent my wraiths after his long fangs, but then I didn't want Bjorn running loose in my deployment zone. Besides, I have a plan. My plan is to hopefully kill Bjorn and then use the middle warriors to claim his body as an objective.


Lance-teks blow up his razorback. 4 grey hunters die in the explosion!!!


On the left, my crypteks blow up 1 typhoon speeder.


Wraiths run.


Middle wraiths assault Bjorn.


I only manage to stun/shake him thanks to his venerableness. In return, Bjorn only insta-kills 1 wraith.


Finally on the left, my wraiths kill 1 hunter and he breaks. I was hoping that he would survive 1 more turn. Now my wraiths are left out in the open for all his missiles to shoot down.


Space Wolves 3

Top of Turn 3. His other unit of grey hunters come in from reserves and embark onto another empty razorback.


Dreadnought and grey hunters go up to greet my right wraiths. Reece is taking a big gamble here by throwing his hunters at my wraiths.


His left dread goes up to greet my Overlord.


In his Shooting phase, he downs the 2 left wraiths with just 1 unit of long fangs.


Rune Priest jaws 1 cryptek and 1 warrior. The right immobilized typhoon then shoots down another 3 warriors. However, 2 warriors get right back up due to Reanimation Protocols.


On the left, the asscan razorback and typhoon (both without cover) focus on 1 unit of warriors. I am lucky to only lose 3 warriors and a cryptek rather than the whole squad.


The warriors fail to get back up but fortunately for me, the cryptek does.


On the right, the combination of 1 squad of long fangs, his lazorback, dreadnought and grey hunters only manage to shoot down 1 wraith. Dread and hunters then assault. I pile into his grey hunters.


Left dread assaults. Overlord passes his invuln to avoid getting squashed. He then takes out the dread's DCCW as well as stun it.


Reece's gambit fails as his dread cannot cause an unsaved wound to my wraiths. In turn, my wraiths kill 2 grey hunters and break the squad. They only fall back 4" but cannot regroup next turn.


Finally, the b*tch slaps continue with my wraiths getting the better of Bjorn with a stun result.


Necrons 3

Necron movement.


Weakened warrior unit gets back into area terrain. AB inches closer to the SW objective and prepares to contest on Turn 5.


AB puts an astounding 10 hits on the left razorback (I rolled 3 6's to hit). I then proceed to glance 4 times and pen 4 times....and Reece fails every single cover save!!!

I actually make a mistake here. I forgot that the tesla destructors were AP- and so should have subtracted 1 from the damage charts. However, I didn't even bother rolling for the glancing hits. The pens were enough to reduce it to an immobilized, weaponless box at worst and a wreck at best.

Also, the tesla destructor arcs onto 1 squad of long fangs but I fail to hurt any of them.


The other annihilation barge weapon destroys and immobilizes the right razorback. It should have been a weapon destroyed and stunned result instead had we factored in AP-.

Oops. Sorry, Reece.


Lance-teks blow off the assault cannon from the left razor.


In assault, I re-stun Bjorn and he b*tch slaps another wraith to death.

Finally, my Overlord whiffs against his left dread.


Space Wolves 4

Overview of the top of Turn 4. I've succeeded in stopping Reece's mobility, though he still has all his long fangs and 1 typhoon as well.


Grey hunters disembark.


His right long fangs move to form a roadblock to his retreating grey hunters. He is trying to redirect their fall back such that they can hopefully get more than 6" away from my wraiths and regroup next turn. Smart play as his hunters fall back about 7".


Left hunters run towards his objective.


Here, Reece makes a mistake. He wanted to assault my warriors, however, Jaws and shooting from his immobilized speeder wipes them all out! I even go-to-ground for the 3+ cover but still fail all my saves. Now his HQ is out in the open to get shot at by my lance-teks next turn.


In combat, I take off Bjorn's DCCW and he puts 1W on my wraiths. Good thing Reece didn't have me re-roll because the 2nd result would have been an explosion!


My Overlord still cannot finish off his dread. I only manage to shake him.


Finally, my right wraiths finish off his dread and consolidates to make sure his grey hunters keep falling back (not that it mattered as I was going to assault them next turn anyways).


Necrons 4

Warriors shuffle around slightly. Mainly I spread my warriors to minimize the effects of any frag blasts.


Wraiths get ready for a multi-charge.


Warriors and crypteks wipe out his Rune Priest and lone grey hunter.


Wraiths wipe out the grey hunters and kill 4 long fangs after No Retreat saves.


Space Wolves 5

Typhoon makes a play for the objectives and moves flat-out.


It takes the focus-fire of 2 long fangs just to immobilize my AB. Reece needed to stop it from contesting his objective.


Wraiths wipe out his long fangs.


Bjorn causes another 1W to my wraiths.


Finally, my Overlord destroys another weapon on his dread. I just can't kill him!


Necrons 5

Overview of the bottom of Turn 5. This will most likely be the last turn. If I can stop his typhoon from contesting, then he can't win.


My other AB moves 12" towards his objective.


Immobilized AB kills 1-2 grey hunters. They pass morale.

My lance-teks then wreck his typhoon to dash all hopes for a draw.


Wraiths assault his middle long fangs and kill 4.


We call the game here. I've got 2 objectives. He's only got 1. He can't get to my objectives and next turn, there's a chance that my wraiths will get to his grey hunters or objective.



Victory to the Metallic Dead - Necrons!!!


-------------------------------------------------------------------


POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

Necrons:
I really like this necron build. I feel that the additional component of lance crypteks and annihilation barges may perhaps make this list a little more well rounded (and thereby, more balanced) than my Maximum Threat Overload necrons. Although I made a mistake with the AB's, they did soak up a lot of firepower that could have otherwise been directed towards my troops. The wraiths were solid as usual. They killed their share and soaked up a huge amount of firepower (and actually lived!). Their saves were much, much better than normal but even if it wasn't, that wouldn't have diminished their impact on the game at all. The only thing I regretted doing was assaulting Bjorn, but honestly, I felt that I really didn't have much of a choice. Had I ignored him, I think Reece would have sent Bjorn towards my troops and that, I didn't want. Overlords on command barges under-performed this game. Then again, I kind of expected that because of the amount of AT Reece has in his army. I really wasn't expecting them (the command barges) to live past Turn 2. Overlords themselves also under-performed. One got owned by Bjorn before he could even strike, and the other got stuck in combat with a dreadnought for the entire game. Finally, the crypteks did well this game. Their shooting helped a lot to stave off units trying to contest.

My opponent played a great game and had a solid strategy. By advancing 2 troops on the flanks, he was trying to accomplish several things. He put his transports in range to searchlight my wraiths, he was making a play for my objectives and he was also trying to split up my wraiths. It didn't really work as well as he'd like though because I had enough shooting to deal with just 2 transports. By deploying his long fangs (and most of his army) on his board edge, he was able to maximize the shooting in his army. He should have been able to take down my wraiths, if not wipe them out then to reduce them to a much more manageable threat level. Too bad for him I was making my saves, but that was no fault of his. Finally, he set up his counter-assault units - his dreads - perfectly. I couldn't avoid them and 2 of them did their job...Bjorn tying up my wraiths and a dread tying up my Overlord.

Overall, it was a great game with not too many mistakes made strategy-wise. This time, I got the better of my opponent due to some good dice on my part. However, I do think that Reece's Space Wolves is still a very dangerous army that can consistently do better against my necrons than this game would otherwise indicate. I also have confidence that necrons can without a doubt stand up to some of the best tournament armies out there.


Space Wolves: (by Reecius)
Ah Jy2, you and your damn saves! hahaha

He just wasn't dying, the dice took a big dump on me and all that firepower just bounced off of him, turn after turn. I was getting really frustrated as it seems like every time we play the dice just hate me!

I should have been wasting those Wraiths and Command Barges but nothing would do any damage. I shot at a Command barge with literally 20 missiles and did NOTHING to it, it was just one of those games.

But, it is a dice game and that is the way it goes. I find that when two good players with good lists play one another, it often comes down to who makes a mistake or who has better luck. Neither of us made a major mistake and Jim's dice were hotter than mine.

Well played Jy2, as always a very challenging and enjoyable game.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/01/26 08:06:30



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Been Around the Block





I find interesting that no one ,but DevianID mentions the overlords on the command barges. If you havent played against these you are in for a "big" surprise. 2+3++ can attack in movement phase. I played vs Jy2 the other day and got tabled. Everything is strong ,but the scariest IMO are the overlords on barges.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/21 01:04:53


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Italy

I alwais follow with great interest all the Reecius and jy2 Battle Reports and even if I can't say to well know the new Necron codex yet I'm a SW gunline lists user from already a little while..

I'm curious about the use of the Rune Priest, I imagine he will sit in a Razorback, maybe the TL HB, waitin' until the action will touch the 24" radius.

I'm just asking my self if these 140 pts could be used differently, maybe on another EL choice (ie one well tooled Scouts team for some other-side actions).

Another thing that I don't see on the troops vehicles are the Dozer blades. Something that, particulary in "Dawn of War" situations, I consider to be a must-have in TACs lists.

I also quote Lucre about the TL Assault Cannons, I can't honestly say to love them..

Another doubt, does the TL Lascannons on the Dreads sounds hugely pricy only to me? wouldn't be better to tool them both with twin TL Autocannons (supposing to set all the 4 troops Razorbacks with TL Lascannons) and so take a third Dreadnought tooled more on CC to support Bjorn? Eventually it too with Plasma Cannon and Heavy Flamer?

A question about the new Necrons codex, Wraiths are Fearless?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/20 23:37:34


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San Jose, CA

Lucre wrote:Good golly, is that reece's normal list? Looks like it was put together to beat necrons. I'm a scrubby, but haven't assault cannons and heavy bolters been out of favor for some time?

And look at all those heavy flamers and lascannons! This is going to be an uphill battle for necron players relying on warriors or shielding!

Also a question: How often does the weave on your overlord's matter and for the turns that it does come up, is the extra fraction of a better save worth the points(given 3++ and an av13 transport)? I'm just thinking about having more crypteks here.

Yeah, that's his standard TAC list. He doesn't play pure razor-spam. That's why he needs the assault cannons for anti-horde. The heavy bolter is just because he had a little extra left and is useful for DoW deployment for his long fangs. Assault cannons are actually quite good and more all-purpose than lazorbacks IMO.

I like the weave on my Overlord because I want to make him into a scary threat. 2+/3++ with mindshackle and warscythe is definitely scary and will help against VoA (volume of attacks). It's not necessarily better than a vanilla scythe overlord, but it's just a preference of mine.


DevianID wrote:Hmm, that space wolf list seems lacking in close combat power. Shooting is there, but double pulses should reduce some of the turn1 pain.

With no ghost arks the 7 crypteks seem wasteful, 2 for pulses is of course great but 175 points on fragile footslogging 24 inch shots?

My prediction is that the ccb and lord will win or lose the game for the crons. If the ccb get sweeps and assaults that neuter the dreads and razors, then the wraiths advance and clean up.

If the ccbs either fail to deal damage or get ignored completely in favor of wiping the wraiths off the table, then the wolves superior troops and range will put them on top starting turn 3.

As long as he uses his searchlights, night-fight should not affect him too much. The only thing it will really do is protect my warriors and annihilation barges - my units in the back - for a couple of turns.

Reece's list doesn't rely on close-combat. Rather, it relies on shooting and then counter-assault with the dreads. That's why he uses min-sized squads. Actually, both of our armies are quite similar in how we use our troops.

I didn't get ghost arks because most of my points are invested in offense. Put enough dangerous, offensive units out there and he won't have time to shoot at my warriors. That's my philosophy and so far, it's done quite well...I have yet to lose with my necrons and in all my games so far, have lost no more than 1 unit of warriors. BTW, cryptek lances are 36" so I can still shoot in the comfort of my deployment zone under cover.


wileythenord wrote:Have you found the annihilation barges worth it? Everytime I have played vs them they haven't done squat.

My money is on the crons, SW will have a tough time vs the wraiths without a dedicated close combat unit and I think (depending on deployment) that the 2 pulses can effectively negate some long fangs. And without the long fangs shooting this list doesn't have much teeth.

Don't know. This is the first time I'll be using the AB's. For only 90pts for a AV13 vehicle, you can't really lose. It's a great value as a support unit IMO.


Unholy_Martyr wrote:Wraiths will probably get smashed by the Dreads in Close Combat, especially with Bjorn in the picture. Don't get me wrong, S6 rending is scary; however, if Reece plays it right, jy will have a fought time getting his preferred assaults.

I'm only concerned with getting stuck in combat with Bjorn. I have confidence I can kill the regular dreads....that is, if he doesn't drop my squads to 1-2 wraiths only. I think I need at least 3 wraiths to take care of a dread.


junk wrote:I like the 18 wraiths in this match up, and the 7 lance crypteks. Abarges are great for what they cost, cheap, expendible, High priority targets.

2 Solar Pulses should be enough to get those necrons into killing position; but reece isn't short on high priority targets himself; so crazy aggression on Jy2's behalf, and careful resource management on Reece's side will make this a stressful match up. Looks good for necrons though.

I definitely need to play aggressively. Sitting back so that he can continue shooting at me is not an option at all. The longer it takes me to get into combat, the less of a chance I have to win.

In my experiences and for my type of build, I don't think I need 2 pulses at all. I will be dropping 1 of them in the future.


Zid wrote:Wolves.

Acute Senses will see to it that those fangs will do a good bit of damage to the wraiths before they get there; after those are gone I feel reece has little to fear!

That's the crux of it. If he can take out my wraiths before I hit his lines (or reduce them to 1-2 per squad), then he's got the game easily. If not, then I have a chance.



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Unless Reecius Flubs up on his game play or his dice runs cold. He should be able to take this Necron list.

Got that much confidence in his game play.

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San Jose, CA

Red Corsair wrote:It comes down to which guy gets to the others troops first. This Game hinges on objectives so tearing up each others threats only gets you so far. Those annihilation barges will surely target the speeders so he doesn't late game contest, while I imagine the wolves will go for the barges of either type first as well.


Also the jaws priest is a fairly sexy deterrent for those wraiths as is Bjorn!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I were Reece I would let the crons have first turn and reserve my speeders. He won't see much even with acute senses turn 1. Surely jy2 will reserve his troops to protect them.

I can tell you from experience that going after my troops first would be a huge mistake. It just takes too much firepower to wipe out 1 squad who will just go-to-ground in cover under the protection of night-fight, and on top of that, the crypteks are troops who can still get back up. Likewise, my shooting will be aimed at killing his mobility. Troops I will deal with when my wraiths hit his lines.

Actually, annihilation barges will target transports and units tightly packed together first. Lance-teks, with their longer range, will go after speeders.

Jaws doesn't affect wraiths as they are jump infantry, but Bjorn will be a pain.

BTW, I will be deploying all my troops. I want my lances firing starting on Turn 1!


Aldarionn wrote:I'm interested to see that Jy2 is taking Annihilation Barges instead of the usual Doomscythes in previous renditions of the list. I wonder if that was a move designed to give him an advantage against an army with lots of ranged superiority. Since they outrange everything in Reece's list it seems like they are a better choice than the Doomscythes. The Doomscythes can be pelted to death with tons of missiles since they need to get close for the Death Ray to function, and Reece's entire list has Searchlights and Accute Senses, making Night Fight a less viable protection strategy.

The other notable change is the lack of the Scarab Farm in favor of additional Wraiths. That might make the Dreadnoughts a little more valuable since it will be easier to tarpit the Wraiths if there is no threat of Entropic Strike gutting them.

Definitely an interesting prospect, and I'll be waiting to see how it turns out. I think the Space Wolves have the edge here, but the Annihilation Barges will be tough to take down if they are stuck across the board.

Annihilation are a value-buy. Good shooting and good resiliency at a great price, but their range is limited. BTW, I was going to use this build no matter what Reece brought. It was a list that I was designing even before I asked Reece for a game and I think it is a great TAC list.

IMO I think wraithwing is more balanced than a scarab-farm. Scarab-farm is good but there's a lot of counters to it. Also, they don't do as well against non-mech armies. Wraithwing is a threat to both mech and foot-lists. In my battles so far, I've had no problems gutting dreadnoughts. The only thing I don't like are vendreads.


Defeatmyarmy wrote:I think youre confusing Annilation Barges with the Doomsday Arc. The Arc is Long range Annilation barge is 24" and is only a skimmer, not a fast skimmer so can only move 6" and fire 1 weapon. Technically death ray has longer reach than a barge since a Scythe can move 12, the death ray can pinpoint up to 12" +3d6 line, and has a destructor that can also fire at any of the targets hit. Annilation barge is more defensive with AV 13 because of quantum shielding so I think he took it for defensive reasons as Scythes are offensive.

I think so also. Annihilation barges aren't awesomesauce, but for the price, they are a reliable and very cost-efficient support unit, especially when your army is short on points.


whitespirit wrote:I find interesting that no one ,but DevianID mentions the overlords on the command barges. If you havent played against these you are in for a "big" surprise. 2+3++ can attack in movement phase. I played vs Jy2 the other day and got tabled. Everything is strong ,but the scariest IMO are the overlords on barges.

Overlords on barges are definitely very good, especially when working in conjunction with wraiths. They make a killer 1-2 punch. Wraiths hold down units that they don't wipe out directly and the overlord comes in to help finish it off. There's some great synergy between these 2 speedy units.


Toban wrote:I alwais follow with great interest all the Reecius and jy2 Battle Reports and even if I can't say to well know the new Necron codex yet I'm a SW gunline lists user from already a little while..

I'm curious about the use of the Rune Priest, I imagine he will sit in a Razorback, maybe the TL HB, waitin' until the action will touch the 24" radius.

I'm just asking my self if these 140 pts could be used differently, maybe on another EL choice (ie one well tooled Scouts team for some other-side actions).

Psychic defense is vital to any good TAC tournament armies. Plus jaws is an amazing power which can turn the tide of any game. I would keep him in my SW army.

Another thing that I don't see on the troops vehicles are the Dozer blades. Something that, particulary in "Dawn of War" situations, I consider to be a must-have in TACs lists.

I also quote Lucre about the TL Assault Cannons, I can't honestly say to love them..

Another doubt, does the TL Lascannons on the Dreads sounds hugely pricy only to me? wouldn't be better to tool them both with twin TL Autocannons (supposing to set all the 4 troops Razorbacks with TL Lascannons) and so take a third Dreadnought tooled more on CC to support Bjorn? Eventually it too with Plasma Cannon and Heavy Flamer?

Dozer blades are definitely good. I myself run them with my Purifier grey knights. However, in an army that mainly sits back and shoots. it isn't as necessary.

I believe the TL-LC on the dreads are mainly for anti-AV14. Reece doesn't run a lot of meltas and he'll have to risk his troops in order to use his meltas. Lascannons, while not awesomesauce against AV14, is still better than missile-spam against them.

A question about the new Necrons codex, Wraiths are Fearless?

Yes they are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/21 02:13:29



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That's why I play with 4 tornados in my wolf list over the typhoons. Its 70 pt for a tornado with a heavy flamer and a multi melta. Helps against battle wagons and land raiders and it fries things like MSU necrons. Point being you would have to take care of these bombing down your flanks first rather then deal with my other threats. Once they get within flame range your in trouble. There is more then one way to skin a cat is my point, and it's never a mistake taking out your only scoring units in an objective grab.

   
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I'm gonna give this to the Wolves. Not just because of the lists, but also because this is Reecius' primary army and he has a lot of experience with it. Knowing how to get every bit of juice out of your list counts in competitive match-ups and this is something where Reecius has the edge.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
On another note Jy2, when is the batrep vs Mray out? Mark is still in the U.S and all of us expats in Shanghai are anxious to get the report. Mark won't tell us...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/21 03:00:39


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San Jose, CA

Adam LongWalker wrote:Unless Reecius Flubs up on his game play or his dice runs cold. He should be able to take this Necron list.

Got that much confidence in his game play.

Reece is definitely really good with his space wolves. I'm getting the hang of my necrons, though IMO my best army is still my Crowe-Purifier grey knights.


Red Corsair wrote:That's why I play with 4 tornados in my wolf list over the typhoons. Its 70 pt for a tornado with a heavy flamer and a multi melta. Helps against battle wagons and land raiders and it fries things like MSU necrons. Point being you would have to take care of these bombing down your flanks first rather then deal with my other threats. Once they get within flame range your in trouble. There is more then one way to skin a cat is my point, and it's never a mistake taking out your only scoring units in an objective grab.

Tornados definitely play very differently from typhoons. I would've had to re-direct my offense into taking them out first, though on the bright side, that would've been less insta-killing shots my wraiths would have to worry about. I think it would have definitely been a totally different game.


Lukus83 wrote:I'm gonna give this to the Wolves. Not just because of the lists, but also because this is Reecius' primary army and he has a lot of experience with it. Knowing how to get every bit of juice out of your list counts in competitive match-ups and this is something where Reecius has the edge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On another note Jy2, when is the batrep vs Mray out? Mark is still in the U.S and all of us expats in Shanghai are anxious to get the report. Mark won't tell us...

Reece definitely has the experience factor. However, as a space wolf player myself and someone well versed with Reece's army (I've played against it before several times), I have more experience against his list than he does against mine as well.

Mark's space marines battle is coming up next after this one. I'd estimate maybe around Mon-Tues as I should be able to finish this report by tomorrow.



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Yea I completely agree, my list is slightly different then his. Mine uses 6 TL las Canons and tornadoes instead of typhoons to combat av14, I also love heavy flamers on speeders. I also don't run Bjorn though, I prefer Rune priests. But we both run way less razor spam so I feel like it's my own army in this rep ha ha.

I must admit i am biased in that respect. Maybe because I painted 110 marines, 35 terminators and 10 vehicles this past sept/oct...... LOL!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/21 03:36:18


   
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San Jose, CA



Deployment phase up.


Red Corsair wrote:Yea I completely agree, my list is slightly different then his. Mine uses 6 TL las Canons and tornadoes instead of typhoons to combat av14, I also love heavy flamers on speeders. I also don't run Bjorn though, I prefer Rune priests. But we both run way less razor spam so I feel like it's my own army in this rep ha ha.

I must admit i am biased in that respect. Maybe because I painted 110 marines, 35 terminators and 10 vehicles this past sept/oct...... LOL!

I also run rune priest space wolves....3 at 2K. It's actually a bit more assaulty and less shooty than Reece's list. And I only have 2 razorbacks in my army.

That's a lot of models you've painted! I can probably only do 20 a month so I'm starting to commission people to help build/paint my armies.



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Yea I run 4 Razors, all lazbacks. Does well in tournies though I shelved it because it was too mean for casual play ha ha.


Yea I have been gaming for 15 years and I used to paint models for a living, or it was my second job. I did high end (showroom) player character models for D&D that sold for 50-100 depending on how busy ebay was ha ha. Then I did commission sculpting for mini companies me and my bro have a small site with our old work. http://www.bloodmoonminis.com/ over hauling it now as I am doing my own resin casting. Still working the kinks out but should have some cool things up in the future. *shameless plug*

But now I have been trying to get my armies done so people stop giving me advice on painting tips at stores lol. That's the trouble with commission painting, you never get your own stuff done and strangers at tournies think you can't paint LOL! I am doing 50 berzerkers now, I love those fellas even if their book sucks

Anyways sorry about the rant, when I get to hobby talk I can get carried away On to the Battle!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/21 05:58:42


   
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Bay Area

This will be an interesting match up. I wonder how 18 Wraiths backed by 2 Annihilation Barge will perform against Reecius's missile spam SW.

   
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Sorry no prescient outcome Im afraid

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By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

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Battle report completed.



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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions





CT

Very impressive win Jy2, I am amazed by the durability of the wraiths in this match. I expected them to die much faster to shooting, and i expected more damage in melee vs the dreads. Well played as always, your list is quite solid. I Will keep reading your batreps even though mine and your necron lists are quite different.

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Good Batrep...Nothing makes me smile more than seeing wolves get cut back down to puppies

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