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Howdy all,

so today I played in a 1750 Nova tourney. If your not familiar with that format, please see http://www.novaopen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Primer-2011-GT-Missions-v3.pdf . I took my necrons, which aren't nearly finished being painted and I have no suitable Wraith/Spyder models, so I was proxying... needless to say my painting score was a 0 My list is as follows:

HQ
Nemesor Zahndrekh
4x Crypteks – HoD, 1x Pulse
Destroyer Lord – Scarabs, Scythe, Weave

Troops
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Immortals – Tesla

Fast Attack
9x Scarabs
6x Wraiths – 3x Whips, 2x Pistols
6x Wraiths – 3x Whips, 2x Pistols

Heavy
3x Spyders – 1x Gloom
3x Spyders – 1x Gloom

This is only my third time using this version of my 'Crons, so I was confident I could score a big W again for a 4th straight first place in tournaments. I'll get the reps up later, but for now, here are the lists I played/missions:

Game 1 vs Space Wolves

This game was against my buddy Egan (if you follow my reps, you may recall the pounding I gave him with my Dark Eldar and BA), using a slightly different list from his normal. Heres what he had:

HQ
Wolf Lord - All the bells and whistles, TWC mount, TH/SS, 2x Wolves
Rune Priest - LL, Chooser, Jaws

Troops
5x Grey Hunters - Melta - TLLC Razor
5x Grey Hunters - Melta - TLLC Razor
9x Grey Hunters - Banner, melta, PW, Wulfen - Rhino

FA
5x TWC - All wound allocated, 4x SS, 1x PF, 1x Wulfen

Heavy
6x Longfangs - 5x ML's
6x Longfangs - 5x ML's
6x Longfangs - 5x ML's

Primary Mission: KP's
Secondary: Objectives
Tertiary: Can't remember :(


Deployment: Spearhead

I win the roll off and choose to take first turn. Heres deployment:


He fails to seize.

Necron T1
I shamble forward. Spyders/scsrabs in the middle, both wraith units moving north. The warriors/immortal units spread out. I take Accute Senses from one longfang unit, and give tank hunters to one warrior unit (bad choice overall).

Shooting is ineffective (he makes cover or I fail to damage).

In assault I make it to the Calv using my wraiths. I manage only 3 unsaved wounds (on diff wolves) and he insta-gibs 1. He passes ld. I also killed both fenrisian wolves.


Space Wolves T1
He shuffles around. Not much else to do. I pop Pulse this turn.
Shooting he manages to kill off a wraith from the unwounded unit and put a single wound on my D-lord. He also pops an entire warrior squad with frag missiles 
In assault he passes a ton of saves, losing 1 wolf. In return he kills all but 1 wraith after fearless saves .

Necron T2
I keep trudging forward. I split my D-lord from his wraiths, while the wraiths go forward toward the longfang units. One unit of Spyders goes to help out the wraiths. Scarabs move and fleet.
Shooting (once again) proves terrible, as I only glance and stun his single rhino…
In assault my Spyders/D-lord go to my wraiths rescue… yes, 2 wraith, 3 spyders, and 1D-lord against all his T-calv. Guess what? He only fails 2 saves…. And I lose 1 wraith + 1 wound on my last wraith, plus a ton of wounds on my spyders. Ugh. I lpass ld/fearless tests. My Scarabs rape his lone rhino.
Space Wolves T2
He shuffles some more. Not much else.
Firing he destroys around 15 scarab bases between blasts from his missiles/shots from his Rune Priest squad. He also kills the Cryptek + 2 warriors from another squad.
In assault he pounds my last wraith, plus spyders. I now have 1 wounded spyder left + a d-lord with 1 wound. He has his PF and his Lord w/ TH.

Necron T3
I continue to shuffle forward. I spawn more scarabs, giving them FC. I also move my last 3 spyders toward his last 2 calv.
Shooting finally does something, wrecking his top razorback.
In assault he passes an assload of 3++ saves, also passing Mindshackle on his lord. In return, I lose 2 spyders out of 4, and my D-lord falls. Luckily, I pass RP on my lord, who goes back into the fray. My scarabs assault into his Rune Priest squad, 50 attacks that need 4+ to wound results in…….. 6 wounds. He then passes all his saves, then goes about killing around 4 bases. My other wraith unit kills his 5 man wolf squad.
Space Wolves T3
He shuffles some more. He reallyonly has 2 things to move.
Shooting he continues to pound my warrior squads with missiles, after firing 2 volleys at the wraiths results in none dying (he rolled poorly for once lol).
In assault I lose even more scarabs, now down to 4 bases. He loses 1 wolf. The spyder/D-lord assault, his lord passes mindshackle again… his lone PF passes 4 3++ saves, his lord goes to one wound. He then kills all my spyders/lord. He consolidates. My lord fails to get up.
Necron T4
I continue to shamble forward. I’m out of really tough units now, down to just a few warrior squads + my wraiths… this games basically lost (those T-calv really should have died).
Shooting blows again, I miss all my lances.
In assault my Wraiths charge all 3 Longfang units… I win by 5. Two units fail Ld… his last unit stays! This was my last chance to get back into the game  I go down to 2 scarab bases.
Space Wolves T4
The TO calls time, so we move to finish. They tell us we can finish thru turn 5. He moves his last razor, both his running fangs regroup, his calv move toward my warriors.
Shooting he does nothing.
Assault his calv wipe out a warrior unit, this gives him the 3 more KP than me to give him primary. His fangs pass a ton of saves vs my wraiths and stick.

Necron T5
I move away from his units.
Shooting fails again.
Assault I finally cause his lasy fang unit to run, but it’s a turn too late.
Space Wolves T5
He just moves around, he doesn’t need to do anything else to gain primary, so we call it.
LOSS FOR THE NECRONS!!!
Afterthoughts: This game was a case of dice… he made SOOOOOO many saves on his calv. On top of it, he passed a critical 4 LD that wound have gave me the game with his longfangs. Top that with my shooting only wrecking 1 razorback all game, and my scarabs (literally) doing nothing, this was one of those games I was destined to lose!

Game 2 vs Space Wolves

This was against Russell, a local player I have yet to play!

HQ
Rune Priest - LL, Hurricane, Bike, Runic Armor, Chooser

Elites
5x Wofl Guard - TDA (all), 2x COmbi-melta, 1x CF, 1x combi-plas, 1x Claw, 4x PW

Troops
10x Grey Hunters - 2x melta, PW, banner, MOTW - Rhino
10x Grey Hunters - 2x melta, PW, banner, MOTW - Rhino

FA
6x Swiftclaws - 1x melta, 1x Attack bike w/ MM

Heavy
LRC - EA, MM
6x Longfangs - 5x ML's - Las/Plas Razorback
6x Longfangs - 5x ML's - Las/Plas Razorback

Primary: Objectives
Secondary: KP's
Tertiary: Table Quarters

Deployment: Dawn of War
He wins first turn and chooses to go first. Heres deployment:

Space Wolves T1
Everything moves on. He runs his longfangs into position. He doesn’t move the rhino he had deployed.
Shooting he manages to see my far right side warrior squad, knocking down 4 of them from his runpriests LL! However, 2 get back up.

Necron T1
Everything moves on. Then runs. I run my far right warriors behind the building there.
Shooting I fail to damage anything.

Space Wolves T2
He shuffles forward some, but mostly stays stationary. I pop pulse.
Shooting he unloads on my forward Wraiths. Finally my dice are hot, and my D-lord takes 1 wound from a lascannon and I lose 1 wraith to missiles.
Necron T2
I give my Nemesor squad tank hunters, taking counter-attack from the bikers. I trudge forward some more.
Shooting I finally do something, wrecking the middle rhino! He disembarks in such a way that my wraiths w/ lord will be able to assault. Everything else runs.
In assault my Wraiths + Lord kill a bunch from both the Bikers and GH squad. I lose a couple wounds on the wraiths.


Space Wolves T3
He shuffles around some more. His Speeder comes in from reserves, aiming at my rearmost wraiths (by his top rhino).
Shooting he unloads into my Spyders. Due to cover (and bad dice) he only manages a few wounds. His raider also attempted to damage them, but failed. He also only manages 1 wound with his HF from his speeder on my other wraiths.
In assault I lose most of my wraiths, but I cause the GH squad to run and whittle down his bikers to just the RP and 1 biker.

Necron T3
I keep on trucking. I give my scarabs FC, taking counter-attack from his top left rhino squad.
Shooting I stun the top right razorback and explode the top left razorback.
In assault I kill his rune priest and caus ethe last biker to flee. My scarabs make it to his raider and manage to take 20 points of armor from it Thus, wrecking it. I also managed to surround it, so the termis are pinned. I also explode his last rhino with my wraiths.

Space Wolves T4
His terminators move back. Both his biker/GH squad are too close to my D-lord. Biker runs off the board, his GH’s barely stay on the table.
Shooting he unloads on my Scarab blob, killing an astounding 17 bases! He also kills my wraith with the D-lord.
In assault he charges into my left wraiths, but things go poorly for him, he rolls badly for saves and I kill 7 GH’s. The remaining few run away.

Necron T4
I give my scrabs FC again, taking Counter-attack from his right longfangs. I move the scarabs to multi his razor + longfangs. My D-lord + wraiths move to charge his other longfangs. I also move onto 2 objectives (almost 3!)
Shooting I immobilize his last razor.
In assault I kill off both longfang units and wreck his razorback.
Space Wolves T5
He has 1 speeder and his termis left, so he just tries to kill something. He manages to kill my D-lord by shooting a ton of low AP shots at him.

Necron T5
I move onto objectives. I have 3, he has 1 contested.

PRIMARY WIN FOR THE NECRONS!!!
Afterthoughts: This game highlighted what I love about the crons; resiliancy. RP’s are awesome, giving my warriors a chance to get back into the fight even after heavy losses. He actually almost killed 2 of my scoring squads, but RP got them back into the fight. Spyders are hard to kill even with missiles while in cover. I can’t say I was disappointed too much this game. I did notice Nemesor was next to useless yet again…
Game 3 vs Dark Eldar
This game was against a normal player around here, Brian. His DE look great and this is my second time facing his version! He took a tweeked list today, trying some new stuff.

HQ
Lelith
Haemi - bare
Haemi - SS

Elites
3x Trueborn - 3x Blasters - Venoms w/ Dual SC's
3x Trueborn - 3x Blasters - Venoms w/ Dual SC's

Troops
5x Warriors - Blaster - Raider
5x Warriors - Blaster - Raider
5x Warriors - Blaster - Raider
14x Wyches - 2x Hydra gaunts, Agonizer
8x Wyches - 1x Shardnet, Agonizer - Raider w/ FF

FA
3x Reavers - Caltrops, bladevanes

Heavy
Ravager - FF, 3x DL's
Ravager - FF, 3x DL's
Ravager - FF, 3x DL's

Priamary: Table Quarters
Secondary: Objectives
Tertiary: KP's

Deployment: Pitched Battle
Brian won the first turn, but having only played the newcrons once, decided to let me go first so he could respond. He places his wych blob w/ bare haemi in reserve, as well as his bikes. He knew my list was slow, so he could play keep away and pick away at me. Here was deployment:

Necron T1
I trudge forward. My goal is simple: knock out his mobile scoring units and then getting onto them with my wraiths.
Shooting I immobilize his Wych raider and one of his warrior raiders.

Dark Eldar T1
He shuffles to my right.
Shooting I roll terribly for saves and he manages to kill 4 wraiths and wound another from the right group. He also picks a few wounds from my spyders.
Necron T2
I need to do some damage this turn if I hope to keep up with him! I move forward.
Shooting I flub completely, causing no damage.
In assault my right wraiths fail to damage either of his venoms (which moved onlt 6”!). I do, however, wreck one of the left side raiders.


Dark Eldar T2
His reserves stay off the board. He disembarks his wyches, who move behind the building, while the haemi moves to shatter my wraiths. His venoms scoot a little as well. He turbos most of his left side to the right, trying to regroup.
Shooting he wipes out my right side wraiths. He also does minor damage to my spyders.
Necron T3
I move my left wraiths over to try and get a large multi; I can get 2 raiders and a warrior squad all at once, maybe more depending what happens! The rest of my stuff moves up.
Shooting I wreck his middle raider and one venom. I try to fleet the scarabs close enough to get his Ravagers, but I roll a 1… I needed at least a 3. I also kill all but 1 trueborn from his venom.
In assault my wraiths/D-lord kill off his last left raider, plus his warriors. My scarabs mulch his newly disembarked warriors.

Dark Eldar T3
His wyches come in from reserves. He moves leliths squad + the new wyches toward my large scarab blob (28 bases strong!). Everything else shifts right.
Shooting he does a few wounds to my spyders, also taking 2 wounds off Nemesor (I failed both 3++ against blasters/lances). He knocks over a few immortals, but they get back up.
In assault his wyches go to work. When all is said and done, he only loses about 5 wyches from his squads, I lose around 11 bases after fearless.

Necron T4
I spawn more scarabs into the combat. My D-Lord goes solo to the left to kill his remaining warriors in that quarter. My spyders/wraiths go to help my scarabs.
Shooting I blow off both cannons from his remaining venom.
In assault between my spyders/wraiths/scarabs I decimate his large wych squad… sadly, I still lose combat by 12 or so, and lose all but 1 wpyder to fearless. I also have 2 wraiths left. I have 9 scarab bases left, while he has lelith and 4 wyches. My D-lord wrecks his last warriors.
Dark Eldar T4
His ravagers move to the right. His last venom rockets into my bottom right corner. His reavers come on, turboing over my wraiths killing 2 wounded ones.
Shooting he does mostly nothing, due to good saves on my part. I have 1 spyder with 1 wound left and I make 5 straight 4+ covers!
In assault I go down to 4 scarab bases. He loses 2 wyches.
Necron T5
Being last turn (they said we can finish 5th) I move to control quarters. I move my remaining wraiths to assault lelith; she needs to fail just 1 save and its GG against my wraiths.
Shooting I completely fail to wreck his venom in my bottom right. I also rapoid fire 10 warriors into his bikes and he only loses one…
In assault my lone spyder gets his Bikers… he causes 1 wound, and I fail my save! Damn! The bikers consolidate. My wraiths make it into lelith and cause only 3 wounds needing 5’s to hit her… he makes all his saves! He kills 2 scarab bases, I lose 1 wraith to fearless.
Dark Eldar T5
His bikers turbo over my warriors in the bottom right. Between that and all his ravagers firing at them, the squad goes to 1 warrior… I then fail my leadership! The warrior runs away from the objective, also giving him a commanding lead in that quarter. The rest of this turn is a wet noodle fight.
In the end we both control 2 quarters (he has 1 heavily damaged venom, 2 bikers in one quarter, I have 2 warrior squads in 1 quarter, he has lelith, 3 ravagers, and 1 immo’d raider in a third, and I have my D-lord in the 4th) for a tie on primary. We go to secondary and he contests 1 objective, but I control the bottom left objective by ¼”! So I win on secondary.

SECONDARY WIN FOR THE NECRONS!!!
Afterthoughts: That was a rough game! Dark Eldars speed is definitely hard for this list to counter due to lack of ranged firepower. I was lucky to have immo’d those raiders early, and gotten into his lines when I did. Honestly I felt confident turn 4 on having primary, but after that bad luck on T5 My dreams were crushed. I didn’t even attempt to get secondary honestly, I got lucky to be barely in on accident!

After this tournament I see the major weakness of this list, and honestly, I don’t feel it would be able to compete against some lists as effectively (we have a guy who plays 9 firedragons in serpents, which would waste my wraiths). With this learnt, I feel confident some tweeks I’ll be doing can make this list far more effective as a whole. I managed only 38 BP’s, not sure what max was, but I was toward the middle of the pack (5th or so place). That fire round loss and not taking primary game 3 definitely took me out of top 4! Heres my thoughts of the list as a whole:
Nemesor – C- - This guy didn’t do a damn thing all 3 games. I found I never really “needed” an ability, he didn’t kill squat, and he didn’t even hinder all 3 of my foes (who’s entire armies have Night vision/Acute Senses). Hes getting the cut!
D-Lord – B- - This guy is still an uber beast, bad luck game 1 saw his effectiveness dwindle. I’ll probably cut him so I can get a second overlord (for the court mostly)
Crypteks – B+ - These guys did their job, but I feel to make them truly effective I need 2 per squad. This will give me far more reliability, so I’m not so reliant on ONE dice per squad… 2 per will at least give me 1 hit. This will increase my ability to drop transports more often. Taking 5 turns to drop just 1 razorback game 1 was pretty bad….
Warriors – B – These guys did their job. Didn’t do much damage tho
Immortals – D – These guys quite frankly suck… Min squads with Tesla don’t do much damage, at all, and can’t really damage tanks.
Wraiths – A – These guys once again are bombdiggity. They do lots of damage, and absorb a lot of damage!
Scarabs – B- - These guys didn’t do much any of the 3 games (minus wrecking the Raider game 2), and I feel massive blobs is more hindrance than a benefit. Not only do blasts hit even more stuff, but normally they get strung out trying to stay within the Spyders range. On top of it all, even if they wreck whatever they charge, they normally die directly afterward; even having spyders spawning more, they die so quickly. I think perhaps just 1 unit of 10 is plenty to take out a tank or two and get blown to bits.
Spyders – C+ - These did very little these three games. Game 1 they got trounced by a single calv with a PF, game 2 they didn’t see combat at all, game 3 they got plowed by lances and contibuted little. They basically spawned scarabs and died. I don’t think they were worth 330 points just to spawn more scarabs, which in return, didn’t do much themselves.
This calls for a revamp of my list, but it was fun none the less! Hope

I would predict loss/win/win.

Fetterkey wrote:I would predict loss/win/win.

me as well

I say 3 wins and 1st place.

Id say win,win, loss. Hope you win all 3 though.

I'm thinking win/win/win. Your list looks great at this point level.

zid, whats up with the update? Let us know how it went down!

Sorry for the wait, we're moving our G-ma into our house and my PC isn't hooked to the net currently (using the wifes laptop!)

Finished, enjoy!

great report, intrested to see the revamp.

tbh on the scarab thing the max i ever put into a list is 8 scarabs and three spiders, its enought to breed a bit and pull the attention and point wise it isnt the big sink to play super farm.

for those interested my revamped list is here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/428157.page

Great reports, thanks for taking the time to make them.

You've said exactly what I've been thinking in your unit analyses. Scarabs are a solid unit, no doubt, but it's becoming clear that farms are fairly one-dimensional (and often risky and clumsy). First, it's almost impossible to get the blob to where it could be most effective. If they even make it where they're going, they end up exposed, unable to consolidate (if they assault a vehicle), and soon to die... Often they become a liability to your other units (as we saw in your report, Scarabs + No Retreat = dead Wraiths and dead Spyders). I'll probably only ever run 3 Spyders max, although you're most likely right that 10 Scarabs is enough by itself.

I think you'll do well with the double Royal Courts. I've been running 2 Lances per 5 Warriors my last few games and I finally feel like I'm getting my points worth from my troops. With 8-10 Lances (and a few Tesla Destructors, hey?), Necrons can actually do some meaningful shooting on the first few turns. I think that's the biggest thing your list was missing in these games.

OK the highlight for all this is the amazing cinematic gladiatorial fight lelith and her mates put up! So epic!

Yea I always thought the farm to be more of a gimick. It was only truely scarey pre-FAQ. It eats up too much of the chart for whats it's worth. You nailed it by saying it's one dimensional.

For me the best unit in that book is the Overlord on the CCB, they are too nasty.


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Great reports btw thanks for sharing! Wish I had more local tournies here in rural Maine ha ha.

whigwam wrote:Great reports, thanks for taking the time to make them.

You've said exactly what I've been thinking in your unit analyses. Scarabs are a solid unit, no doubt, but it's becoming clear that farms are fairly one-dimensional (and often risky and clumsy). First, it's almost impossible to get the blob to where it could be most effective. If they even make it where they're going, they end up exposed, unable to consolidate (if they assault a vehicle), and soon to die... Often they become a liability to your other units (as we saw in your report, Scarabs + No Retreat = dead Wraiths and dead Spyders). I'll probably only ever run 3 Spyders max, although you're most likely right that 10 Scarabs is enough by itself.

I think you'll do well with the double Royal Courts. I've been running 2 Lances per 5 Warriors my last few games and I finally feel like I'm getting my points worth from my troops. With 8-10 Lances (and a few Tesla Destructors, hey?), Necrons can actually do some meaningful shooting on the first few turns. I think that's the biggest thing your list was missing in these games.

I completely agree 100% with everything you've said! I'm thinking 6 lances and anni barges would be plety of AT (plus some command barges). Scarabs are just too fragile, and they are reliable, but like I said; typically they wreck one or two things then get mulched.


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Red Corsair wrote:OK the highlight for all this is the amazing cinematic gladiatorial fight lelith and her mates put up! So epic!

Yea I always thought the farm to be more of a gimick. It was only truely scarey pre-FAQ. It eats up too much of the chart for whats it's worth. You nailed it by saying it's one dimensional.

For me the best unit in that book is the Overlord on the CCB, they are too nasty.


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Great reports btw thanks for sharing! Wish I had more local tournies here in rural Maine ha ha.

I completely agree! Yeah, lelith beastmoded. She was getting 12 attacks per round against the scarabs! But yes, Spyders + Scarabs I think are too gimmicky. And they are terrible against infantry, even a 10 man GH squad can lock up 20 scarabs for a few rounds with decent rolls!

Not bad overall, beating DE and 1 space wolf army. Too bad about TWC. They're quite a good unit.

Scarabs are a finesse unit. You need to know when to use them and when to hold back. Against armies with massed S6 attacks or blasts, they'll die in a hurry. However, against a mostly mech list, they will shine.

BTW, you can always use the Nemesor to give them Hit&Run to get out of combat you don't want. Same with the wraiths.

tbh, hit&run with iniative 2 is a wasted power.

When i use scarab i always have two goals, point and klick what i want to kill & after that tarpit one or two units for a turn two turns. Then they have made up for their points and the rest of the army can cut down the left overs.

jy2 wrote:Not bad overall, beating DE and 1 space wolf army. Too bad about TWC. They're quite a good unit.

Scarabs are a finesse unit. You need to know when to use them and when to hold back. Against armies with massed S6 attacks or blasts, they'll die in a hurry. However, against a mostly mech list, they will shine.

BTW, you can always use the Nemesor to give them Hit&Run to get out of combat you don't want. Same with the wraiths.

Thats the thing though; with a Wraith list the goal is to disembark things for the wraiths to kill. With this list, Scarabs work OK but... they have to assault to wreck the vehicle. 4 lances just don't work, when you want to knock down 2+ vehicles a turn (typically) 4 lances might kill 2 with good rolls. I found that Scarabs and Wraiths both needing to charge to be effective mean't against mechanized forces (see the DE game), yes, I'd wreck the vehicle. But then I got shot at and/or charged in return. My goal with most any of my lists is to try and wreck it with shooting then charge the contents... I just felt, after these three games, the list just didn't do what I wanted it to do. I love flexability in my lists, and the one-dimensionalness just didn't feel good to me. Your list uses 2 scythes, which pull most of your tank-crushing heavy lifting, and they work for you. I feel I just need more of a ranged presence on the field. My shooting phases were literally 2 minutes (at most) all 3 games, with my assaults taking as long as 30 minutes in the case of my scarabs charging.

H&R is a good power, but the one match it may have mattered (round 1) I don't think it would have mattered enough.

Then you should go with command barges or just more shooting. Since you're dropping Nemesor anyways, go for a dual scythelords on CCB's. They're very good units and should help to compensate for the scarabs in the AT department.

I think that you are underestimating Nemesor. His abilities are actually quite awesome, phased reserves, tank hunting... If you really want to make the most of him a second overlord (for a second court) means that each warrior unit gets another s8 cryptec staff. The wraiths and scarabs stay and you become all the more shooty. I think that with more playtesting you will milk this list for what its worth.

Iago wrote:I think that you are underestimating Nemesor. His abilities are actually quite awesome, phased reserves, tank hunting... If you really want to make the most of him a second overlord (for a second court) means that each warrior unit gets another s8 cryptec staff. The wraiths and scarabs stay and you become all the more shooty. I think that with more playtesting you will milk this list for what its worth.

Thats the thing; the only way to fit in more teks and things is to either cut spyders or cut wraiths. Either way, the list still doesn't play like I want it to. As well, giving one unit an ability per turn is nice, but sometimes none of the abilities fill the role your looking for. Plus for 185 pts, Nemesor is pretty terrible at everything else (his range is terribly short, he can't fight in CC). I just don't think he adds much to this list. He worked well in my test games against armies that taking abilities helped out, but giving abilities has always been pretty lackluster. I just think for 185 pts hes not worth it currently, but the phased reinforcements may be great when 6th comes out!


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jy2 wrote:Then you should go with command barges or just more shooting. Since you're dropping Nemesor anyways, go for a dual scythelords on CCB's. They're very good units and should help to compensate for the scarabs in the AT department.

You've seen my new list, so I'm (basically) doing this, while adding a s***load more firepower. I want to be able to be able to hold my own with firing and assault, I just think that overall 3 full Wraith squads will be better than 2 Wraiths and 1 Scarab in the end. I love Scarabs, don't get me wrong, but I just feel buying them a spyder unit for support plus the scarabs, they just aren't worth it. I face a LOT of Space Wolf opponents here so Scarabs and Spyders are missile bait after wraiths. I dunno.... Just what I'm seeing with my tests. I didn't like Anni-Barges with my old rendition of my list, but I feel they will work combined with CCB's and lots of Teks. I guess I'm following your idea of MTO but in a different way. Plus 2 pulses is way better than 1!

Remember you don't HAVE to buy spyders to complement the Scarabs. A unit of 10 is a threat on it's own and when combined with Wraiths you are looking at giving your opponent a rough choice....Wraiths or suicidal Scarabs. Whichever one he picks the other is sure do something worthwhile. Sure Scarabs maybe have bad match-ups, but in those cases they can tarpit, screen or just distract in an attempt to get some mileage out of them. They are pretty cheap for what they do. The only thing is to be careful with placement. A multi-charged unit of Wraiths and Scarabs is probably a dead unit of Wraiths.

With all that said though you can't go wrong with 3 maxed units of Wraiths. Depends on what the rest of the list is doing I guess.

Zid wrote:
You've seen my new list, so I'm (basically) doing this, while adding a s***load more firepower. I want to be able to be able to hold my own with firing and assault, I just think that overall 3 full Wraith squads will be better than 2 Wraiths and 1 Scarab in the end. I love Scarabs, don't get me wrong, but I just feel buying them a spyder unit for support plus the scarabs, they just aren't worth it. I face a LOT of Space Wolf opponents here so Scarabs and Spyders are missile bait after wraiths. I dunno.... Just what I'm seeing with my tests. I didn't like Anni-Barges with my old rendition of my list, but I feel they will work combined with CCB's and lots of Teks. I guess I'm following your idea of MTO but in a different way. Plus 2 pulses is way better than 1!

In other words, it's going to look more like this?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/424563.page

You do realise when you surrounded the Land Raider and wrecked it with scarabs the unit inside is dead not pinned don't you?

YES! I was right!

Although hard luck. I hate cold dice.

Fetterkey wrote:I would predict loss/win/win.

Called it.

I more or less agree with your conclusions. Spyders are IMO quite underwhelming, while Annihilation Barges are a standout unit in the Codex-- and indeed the game! That being said, I think keeping one Scarab unit around is important, since they represent a threat that people honestly have to deal with. Even if they don't engage the Scarabs, though, they make people play much more conservatively and allow you to assert board control. I do think you're a little troops-light, though.

The Strange Dude wrote:You do realise when you surrounded the Land Raider and wrecked it with scarabs the unit inside is dead not pinned don't you?

I surrounded just the exit points, not the entire vehicle


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Fetterkey wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I would predict loss/win/win.

Called it.

I more or less agree with your conclusions. Spyders are IMO quite underwhelming, while Annihilation Barges are a standout unit in the Codex-- and indeed the game! That being said, I think keeping one Scarab unit around is important, since they represent a threat that people honestly have to deal with. Even if they don't engage the Scarabs, though, they make people play much more conservatively and allow you to assert board control. I do think you're a little troops-light, though.

Agreed on all fronts. I might use a unit of Scarabs in higher points, but I think Anni-Barges and Stalkers compliment tons of teks more than Scarabs


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Lukus83 wrote:Remember you don't HAVE to buy spyders to complement the Scarabs. A unit of 10 is a threat on it's own and when combined with Wraiths you are looking at giving your opponent a rough choice....Wraiths or suicidal Scarabs. Whichever one he picks the other is sure do something worthwhile. Sure Scarabs maybe have bad match-ups, but in those cases they can tarpit, screen or just distract in an attempt to get some mileage out of them. They are pretty cheap for what they do. The only thing is to be careful with placement. A multi-charged unit of Wraiths and Scarabs is probably a dead unit of Wraiths.

With all that said though you can't go wrong with 3 maxed units of Wraiths. Depends on what the rest of the list is doing I guess.

And I agree here; I just feel Scarabs aren't necessary if you have enough ranged AT elseware. Plus 18 wraiths is a scary prospect to face, even ML spam wolves would have a rough time knocking them all down and ignoring the vehicles and other units!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:

Zid wrote:
You've seen my new list, so I'm (basically) doing this, while adding a s***load more firepower. I want to be able to be able to hold my own with firing and assault, I just think that overall 3 full Wraith squads will be better than 2 Wraiths and 1 Scarab in the end. I love Scarabs, don't get me wrong, but I just feel buying them a spyder unit for support plus the scarabs, they just aren't worth it. I face a LOT of Space Wolf opponents here so Scarabs and Spyders are missile bait after wraiths. I dunno.... Just what I'm seeing with my tests. I didn't like Anni-Barges with my old rendition of my list, but I feel they will work combined with CCB's and lots of Teks. I guess I'm following your idea of MTO but in a different way. Plus 2 pulses is way better than 1!

In other words, it's going to look more like this?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/424563.page

Actually, yeah lol. At 2500 it'll have 3 wraith units, but 2k or below 2 units. I just feel starved for ranged AT all around.