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Does a devastator squad sergeants signum link or Telion's voice of experience allow one model in their respective squads to fire at their bs instead of bs 1 when using snap fire?

Definitely not for Overwatch.

RAW It looks like you can, however I don't think it is RAI.

Snap Fire is always taken at BS1, even when other rules say otherwise.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Snap Fire is always taken at BS1, even when other rules say otherwise.

Reference please.

The only thing I can find on Snap Shots is the model counts as BS 1 when firing the shot. Signum allows a model to fire at BS5.

I think it allows one model to shoot at BS5.

The rules say you are simply BS1 for shooting the Snap shot. The Signum can make one model BS5, so I would say it can be a BS5 snapshot.

Nice little something extra, not too powerful, not too weak. It actually makes devestators mildly useful.

Looks to me like a Signum can only be used in the Shooting phase (C:SM p. 100). If you are getting charged, it's probably not your shooting phase.

For Telion, another model is using his BS. (p. 88 C:SM) Normally this is 6, but if he is Snap Shooting, it would be reduced to BS1 just like everyone else. So, I guess you could defer his shot to give another model a BS1, but that seems kinda pointless.

newbis wrote:Looks to me like a Signum can only be used in the Shooting phase (C:SM p. 100). If you are getting charged, it's probably not your shooting phase.

For Telion, another model is using his BS. (p. 88 C:SM) Normally this is 6, but if he is Snap Shooting, it would be reduced to BS1 just like everyone else. So, I guess you could defer his shot to give another model a BS1, but that seems kinda pointless.

Sounds pretty solid to me.

Signum sets a model's BS to 5 kicks in before you make your shot. Snap Fire kicks in as you're making your shot and sets your BS to 1.
At least that's how I see it.

Irdiumstern wrote:Signum sets a model's BS to 5 kicks in before you make your shot. Snap Fire kicks in as you're making your shot and sets your BS to 1.
At least that's how I see it.

For just straight up Snap Shots, I don't think it works that way. Neither description says it increases or reduces BS. Both descriptions suggest they are setting BS. In the case of multiple things happening at the same time, usually the active player decides the order in which things happen. If that is true, then regular Snap Shots (but not Overwatch) can be BS 5 from the Signum, assuming the active player would like a higher BS.

After looking at the snap shot rule, I would have to say that the signum and telion do not apply their BS modification. The reason for this is that you count as ballistic skill one for snap shots. It doesn't matter what your actual ballistic skill is, and your base ballistic skill is not altered by snap shot. Since snap shots have not altered your base ballistic skill, they instead count as ballistic skill one for snap shots, you are still ballistic skill 5 from the signum but you count as ballistic skill 1 when making snap shots.

newbis wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:Signum sets a model's BS to 5 kicks in before you make your shot. Snap Fire kicks in as you're making your shot and sets your BS to 1.
At least that's how I see it.

For just straight up Snap Shots, I don't think it works that way. Neither description says it increases or reduces BS. Both descriptions suggest they are setting BS. In the case of multiple things happening at the same time, usually the active player decides the order in which things happen. If that is true, then regular Snap Shots (but not Overwatch) can be BS 5 from the Signum, assuming the active player would like a higher BS.

For the active player to choose the order of operation requires that these things happen at the same time. The Signum only has one line that suggests timing: "Declare that the signum is being used before any rolls to hit are made."
Snap Shots, on the other hand: "If a model is forced to make Snap Shots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots."

This indicates to me that Snap Shots kicks in after the Signum.

Also, on further reading, the Signum sets BS 5. Snap Shots, on the other hand, simply count the BS of the firer as 1 for those shots. The firer's BS isn't being referenced at all for snap shots. Even if you were able to change the BS of the firing model at the exact same time as when snap shots kicks in, you would still fire at BS 1.

Irdiumstern wrote:

newbis wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:Signum sets a model's BS to 5 kicks in before you make your shot. Snap Fire kicks in as you're making your shot and sets your BS to 1.
At least that's how I see it.

For just straight up Snap Shots, I don't think it works that way. Neither description says it increases or reduces BS. Both descriptions suggest they are setting BS. In the case of multiple things happening at the same time, usually the active player decides the order in which things happen. If that is true, then regular Snap Shots (but not Overwatch) can be BS 5 from the Signum, assuming the active player would like a higher BS.

For the active player to choose the order of operation requires that these things happen at the same time. The Signum only has one line that suggests timing: "Declare that the signum is being used before any rolls to hit are made."
Snap Shots, on the other hand: "If a model is forced to make Snap Shots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots."

This indicates to me that Snap Shots kicks in after the Signum.

Also, on further reading, the Signum sets BS 5. Snap Shots, on the other hand, simply count the BS of the firer as 1 for those shots. The firer's BS isn't being referenced at all for snap shots. Even if you were able to change the BS of the firing model at the exact same time as when snap shots kicks in, you would still fire at BS 1.

That's a fair argument. I'm happy to accept that.

What about page 7 stating when advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rule.

Snap fire is now a basic rule and signum link should qualify as an advanced rule.

Also on page 7 it states if there is a conflict between core rulebook and codex, codex wins.

I'm going too use my own Divination ability here.

3 months from now, the FAQ response to this question..

"Nice try. All snap fire shots are at BS 1. You didn't think we'd really say anything different, did you?"