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Right, say you have a friend at your FLGS or local club and you know that he uses recasts. These are not the cheap 'I'm sure it looks like a Land Raider if you look at it from this angle and use your imagination' ones either, this stuff looks like the real deal. The kind that you would only know it is fake if he told you himself.

Would you play against this guy knowing that he is undercutting the hobby or would you not?

If it was GW recast, I'd ask him where he got those, how much they were and possibly order some myself. Anything else: no.

Only GW recasts are acceptable in my area. Anything else is seen as wrong.

So yes.

To be honest, I'd have no issue with it. I appreciate how expensive this hobby can be, and if someone has found a cheaper way to have fun with it then all power to them. I probably wouldn't buy them myself, but I'd not stop anyone from using them.

When it comes down to it, my policy with models/rules/counts-as/anything game related is 'if you're a decent guy, then anything goes. If you're a git, feth off'.

Most likely. The type of person and player they are is more important to me than where they got their plastic crack.

Depends if the model is oop.

GW has gotten rid of so many models in the past few years.

Even then, I'm not really bothered.

Yes. Yes, most certainly.

I wouldn't care. I can't confirm it, but I'm pretty sure that I've got almost 800pts of recasted models bought off ebay, so it'd be pretty hypocritical even if I was morally against it.

Oh my. "If you are not playing with GW I can't play with you?" Oh give me a break.

What is the difference from not using GW glue, paint, brushes, buying from GW directly.

Well it would be forge world and that kind of nonsense where there is a lot of money saved,


I wouldn't mind either, just curious about the rest of Dakka.

I would ask him where he got it and buy stuff myself.

If my friends get more and cheaper models, that means I will have more variety in the lists I have to play against.
It means I can also play bigger matches and those things means I will enjoy this game more.

Because honestly, after almost a year it's getting extremely boring to play against the same "cheap nobz and 30 boyz I once got for a really low price"-army

Wouldn't care in the least.

I wouldn't care. I'm not GW legal and it is none of my business where he got his models. Unless he stole them from another player, of course.

I would play him/her, but I would make snide comments about things related to copyright infringement the entire game. None targeted at my opponent mind you, I'd just cover everything from Napster to Industrial espionage.
By the end of the game, my opponent would be well aware of my feelings on the issue and probably never want to play me again. Recasting without permission is illegal in many places and unethical everywhere.

Without a second's hesitation, I'd much rather play an army of beautifully painted recasts than a sea of official grey plastic.

Besides, it's a personal decision, and none of my business. If he has made his peace with it, then that's all that matters.

 greyknight12 wrote:
I would play him/her, but I would make snide comments about things related to copyright infringement the entire game. None targeted at my opponent mind you, I'd just cover everything from Napster to Industrial espionage.
By the end of the game, my opponent would be well aware of my feelings on the issue and probably never want to play me again. Recasting without permission is illegal in many places and unethical everywhere.

Why is it unethical? You bought the item from the person who made it. By buying an item using a stolen design do you too steal the idea? Is all thievery equally wrong?

 welshhoppo wrote:
Right, say you have a friend at your FLGS or local club and you know that he uses recasts. These are not the cheap 'I'm sure it looks like a Land Raider if you look at it from this angle and use your imagination' ones either, this stuff looks like the real deal. The kind that you would only know it is fake if he told you himself.

Would you play against this guy knowing that he is undercutting the hobby or would you not?

Also, just to add, GW is not "the hobby"

I would certainly play against them, and find out where they got them as well.

My friend has recast a few Tyranids models himself. I'm not 100% fine with that, but since it's mostly because of the amount of money normally required to buy such models and nothing moral, I play against them without saying anything.

You shouldn't support recasts not because of the issues of copyright protection but because Chinese recasts and knock offs specifically are made in horrid work conditions. Of course this may actually be the case currently with GW miniatures although I do not believe they are cast in China.

I would just be wary of any knock off product because of work conditions.

Is it illegal for you to do? Maybe? Would you ever possibly serve jail time is it even a illegal law to recast miniatures for your own use? Is it an actual immoral act to use recast items? No.

Hollismason wrote:
You shouldn't support recasts not because of the issues of copyright protection but because Chinese recasts and knock offs specifically are made in horrid work conditions. Of course this may actually be the case currently with GW miniatures although I do not believe they are cast in China.

I would just be wary of any knock off product because of work conditions.

Is it illegal for you to do? Maybe? Would you ever possibly serve jail time is it even a illegal law to recast miniatures for your own use? Is it an actual immoral act to use recast items? No.

Thats not true at all. Its not made on a production line. Its made by a small team of people who want to make a profit. There are very few makers of re-casters but many sellers. They are not done by child labor or hand crafted by orphans etc. Major legal american companies do that (like Nike etc).

They are made by many western English teachers etc in their spare time while teaching over there and most of them do it part time. There are no giant recast factories or anything. Thats just uninformed lies.

Im not supporting it (although I have recasts) but its certainly not made in inhumane conditions.

Exactly, my understanding is the likes of *redacted* in Russia, or *purged* or *deleted* in China are not really any different from your average Etsy type seller, only their product is a tad less legal in most countries.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
I would play him/her, but I would make snide comments about things related to copyright infringement the entire game. None targeted at my opponent mind you, I'd just cover everything from Napster to Industrial espionage.
By the end of the game, my opponent would be well aware of my feelings on the issue and probably never want to play me again. Recasting without permission is illegal in many places and unethical everywhere.

Why is it unethical? You bought the item from the person who made it. By buying an item using a stolen design do you too steal the idea? Is all thievery equally wrong?

It's unethical because it's supporting intellectual property theft. It's no different than buying a Metallica CD from someone who bought one then re-burned it en-masse.

Well here's the thing: if you refuse to play him because he was honest with you and told you it is recast, guess what'll happen? He will stop telling folks it is recast and be about his day.

What's next? "ooh you got a steeper discount for all your original GW stuff than I did because I ordered all my things from the local GW store and support them that way? Well I aint playing against ya because you support third party retailers, undercutting all the hard working redshirts keeping GW's brick and mortar stores alive."

If you can't see the difference between buying an illegally recast model and buying a legal one from your LGS then you have some serious misunderstandings.

Im not about to bust out a model id kit to check your stuff so 'game on'.

Not only would I play him, I'd ask if he like me to teach him how to recast himself to save even more. It is dirt easy.

Again to the OP. What is wrong? What are you going to say when someone is using Privateer Press, or Vallejo paints instead of GW paints?

Heaven forbid if someone is not using GW paint brushes.

How about people who don't use GW glue?

When does it stop? Where does it start?

I'd be okay with someone recasting their own models, but I think buying recasts from a third party is wrong. It's bad for the industry and bad for people conducting business in general.

Like if I needed a few hundred clan rats it would be smart to buy a single box and then make resin copies of the sprues and use those to bulk out my force. That's respecting their intellectual property.

Selling those copies would be illegal. Infringing on intellectual property isn't as bad as theft. Its not as bad as selling stolen property or buying stolen property.

The recasts I own are better than what GW/FW is producing for three times the price. I can't fault anyone for choosing a superior product over an inferior one, and I also challenge anyone to prove any of my models are recasts.