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It's been a long time since I have posted anything on this site (Years infact), but I've always been lurking. In the past 4-5 years I've observed an immense increase in snarkiness, passiv-agressivness, outright vitriol and much more in terms of toxic behaviour, not only towards GW but also towards other members. It is not my place to tell anyone how they should behave anywhere and it is not what I want. Rather, I'd like to discuss if other people have had the same observation.
The reason for this topic being so dear to me, is the fact that Dakka was my first introduction to an online tabletop community. It is saddening to me that such an increase in vile behaviour has happened. There are other members of Dakka that have left the site for good because of precisely such behaviour. I myself have long since migrated to Bolter and Chainsword, not only because I prefer the content but also because I feel the atmosphere to be much friendlier and less jaded. This is not meant as a personal attack or insult towards anyone, it is just my very own observation.
Am I just seeing things that aren't there? What are your opinions and expiriences?
"What is the greatest illusion of life?"
"Innocence, brother, innocence."
Welcome to the internet, its like this just about everywhere and has only increased as time passes.
I still think Dakka is pretty civil as long as you avoid 40k and politics. Of course this is what most people browse dakka for I guess so who knows, I love the painting, news, and minor community sections.
Try browsing /tg/ sometime, dakka really isnt that bad all things considered.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
The internet as a whole is generally cynical, aloof and passive-aggressive and DakkaDakka is no exception. But thankfully our mods are pretty good so conversations tend to be more civil.
However, if you want genuine excitement and displays of love for the hobby check out the painting forums. It's worlds apart from the 40k forums.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/04 16:01:30
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
I was just musing to myself how much more peaceful and less aggressive Dakka was these days, it was certainly a lot more vitriolic, to me anyway, back in the days when I first joined. I have also been told that it was far more like The Old West before I came aboard.
The noise vs signal is much higher now though, can't be helped I guess with the growth of the forum.
The Observer wrote: Am I just seeing things that aren't there? What are your opinions and expiriences?
I have similar thoughts to you about the unnecessary snark on here (though I am guilty of providing it as well at times), but I think that negativity has always been here.
When I first got back into 40k in 2009 I tried to get a friend of mine to join Dakka with me and he was adamantly against it. He cited the site as being hostile and full of angry people. I of course ignored him and here I am, but I think the site has always had a reputation for being a bit... "prickly" in terms of user posted content.
I am also of the opinion that when a new member joins and they are excited to be a part of the community they overlook a lot of the negative aspects of the site because they are engrossed in the positive aspects that the site has to offer. There is a lot of great information shared on here, a lot of helpful members who can advise on modeling, game strategies etc., but there are also a fair number of grumpy, nit-picky people who can make reading the site a chore.
I've scaled back my participation on the site because my enthusiasm has waned and the noise to signal ratio as MGS suggests bothers me more and more.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Try browsing /tg/ sometime, dakka really isnt that bad all things considered.
LOL, if /tg/ is the yardstick upon which we measure ourselves then we are all doomed!
Its more that people are more hypersensitive these days. Robust discussion is frowned on, now.
"Unnecessary snark"? How does that even compute?
Back in the day, Dakka was a open firefight in a snake pit. THESE days? Its really turned around into something Akin to your local game shop, where you'd go down and bull!@#$ around with your friends and like minded people..
Some people have a little more gas in the tank on some subjects, me included. But in the whole of the site, You can't get much better.
As for Bolter and Chainsword, YMMV... I didn't, and still don't, like the atmosphere there.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/04 19:31:14
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
essentially world going to hell in a handbasket and with the added vitriol of the current political climate in the UK and the US (where many members are from) it does not help to create a pleasent atmosphere.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Its more that people are more hypersensitive these days. Robust discussion is frowned on, now.
"Unnecessary snark"? How does that even compute?
Your post is a pretty good example, actually. In it you imply I am hypersensitive (while also painting anyone who disagrees with you with the wide brush of hypersensitivity) while also implying that snide, sarcastic remarks are to expected to the point where calling them unnecessary doesn't "compute" for you.
Just because we are posting electronically and not having a discussion face-to-face doesn't mean we need to be dicks to one another. Having a contrary opinion doesn't make one hypersensitive or afraid of robust discussion. There is plenty of polite, robust discussion on these forums.
The urge to immediately jump down someone's throat when they take a dissenting opinion is what I think The Observer is getting at (correct me if I am wrong), and that seems to be encouraged more here than on other forums.
Not everyone wants to come to a hobby forum and engage in a gun fight. Some people just want to relax and talk about toy soldiers.
Tbh I haven't really noticed a particular hostile community on dakkadakka - however, I have only been part of the community since February so I might not be experienced enough to comment. However, you have to be careful when talking about things like this because I feel that on most of the forums there is just a lot of discussion, to be fair even some of the more heated discussions seem to be quite civil to me. However, this is the internet so you will get some not very nice people but that's life I think
MrMoustaffa wrote:
I still think Dakka is pretty civil as long as you avoid 40k and politics. Of course this is what most people browse dakka for I guess so who knows, I love the painting, news, and minor community sections.
Try browsing /tg/ sometime, dakka really isnt that bad all things considered.
Interesting points and I do have to agree that the painting sections I still frequent quite often, but as mentioned below, if we measured everything by /tg/ we wouldn't get anywhere.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:I was just musing to myself how much more peaceful and less aggressive Dakka was these days, it was certainly a lot more vitriolic, to me anyway, back in the days when I first joined. I have also been told that it was far more like The Old West before I came aboard.
The noise vs signal is much higher now though, can't be helped I guess with the growth of the forum.
I suppose growth does have its side-effects. Nice to see that others engage in similar thoughts.
DarkTraveler777 wrote:
The Observer wrote: Am I just seeing things that aren't there? What are your opinions and expiriences?
I have similar thoughts to you about the unnecessary snark on here (though I am guilty of providing it as well at times), but I think that negativity has always been here.
When I first got back into 40k in 2009 I tried to get a friend of mine to join Dakka with me and he was adamantly against it. He cited the site as being hostile and full of angry people. I of course ignored him and here I am, but I think the site has always had a reputation for being a bit... "prickly" in terms of user posted content.
I am also of the opinion that when a new member joins and they are excited to be a part of the community they overlook a lot of the negative aspects of the site because they are engrossed in the positive aspects that the site has to offer. There is a lot of great information shared on here, a lot of helpful members who can advise on modeling, game strategies etc., but there are also a fair number of grumpy, nit-picky people who can make reading the site a chore.
(...)
Good points and I suppose that must be my case too, simply overlooking stuff in favour of the 'new and positive'. Now that you mention, I too know people who have permanently turned their backs on this site, precisely because they perceive it as, the way you put it, 'pricky'. Again, the actual tabletop work and wip sub-forums are amazing, I just feel that most stuff outside of it has become a jaded minefield.
Grot 6 wrote:Your post is two years too late.
Its more that people are more hypersensitive these days. Robust discussion is frowned on, now.
"Unnecessary snark"? How does that even compute?
Could you please elaborate on why my post is too late? I do not fully understand what you mean by it.
I would heavily argue against people in general being hypersensitive these days and robust (Although I do have to admit that I do not fully understand what you mean with this preface) discussion certainly isn't frowned upon. It is more, as far as I can tell, that people seem to not understand the point of a discussion. Rarely it is an exchange of opinions and an actual discourse between people, but much more an attempt of one side trying to force its opinion as the right or superior one in comparison to the other. Think about the several discussions about gender-stereotypes we had in the past. People were aloof and passiv-aggressiv from the beginning. The aim was not to discuss this topic and there was certainly no attempts to actually try and understand points made by both sides. Note that I do not think that one of them is right and the other is wrong, they both have valid points! People just seemed to try and push their opinion down other people's throats without actually entertaining the idea of the opposition actually having some kind of validity.
As such I would say that discussion is not frowned upon but that some people do not discuss things, rather they present their opinions as something superior and right from the get-to-go and this then causes vitriol, aggressivity and similar.
'unnecessary snark', to me, is the expression of an opinion/point/fact/whatyouhave with superfluous arrogance and derision towards the other person/party/faction. To put it bluntly: you can have an opinion and you can be a about it. It is the expression of a lack of respect towards the people you are having a talk/discussion with and the incapability to attribute any kind of merit to their opinion, which I would argue is the wrong way of tackling a discussion. Unnecessary snark is what turned the aforementioned gender-stereotypes discussions into a deplorable cesspit, as both sides were unwilling to face the other side as an equal and valid opinion.
Asterios wrote:essentially world going to hell in a handbasket and with the added vitriol of the current political climate in the UK and the US (where many members are from) it does not help to create a pleasent atmosphere.
Good point, didn't even think about that.
"What is the greatest illusion of life?"
"Innocence, brother, innocence."
Its more that people are more hypersensitive these days. Robust discussion is frowned on, now.
"Unnecessary snark"? How does that even compute?
Your post is a pretty good example, actually. In it you imply I am hypersensitive (while also painting anyone who disagrees with you with the wide brush of hypersensitivity) while also implying that snide, sarcastic remarks are to expected to the point where calling them unnecessary doesn't "compute" for you.
Just because we are posting electronically and not having a discussion face-to-face doesn't mean we need to be dicks to one another. Having a contrary opinion doesn't make one hypersensitive or afraid of robust discussion. There is plenty of polite, robust discussion on these forums.
The urge to immediately jump down someone's throat when they take a dissenting opinion is what I think The Observer is getting at (correct me if I am wrong), and that seems to be encouraged more here than on other forums.
Not everyone wants to come to a hobby forum and engage in a gun fight. Some people just want to relax and talk about toy soldiers.
^ posted for example of exactly the point I was making..
As I said, Dakka's like going to your FLGS, and grabbing a box of figs and talking to mates.
Take it down a notch, chief. No one was even answering or even thinking about you.
In case you need me to spell it out for you I wrote what I meant, and meant what I wrote. Dakka was worse 2 years ago.
These days it is better in terms of content, relative discussion, and information exchange, it is 100% better, and the posters and information are excellent.
WHERE in the world do you even equate my post with a response to you? I don't even understand your unacceptable correlation.
Its more that people are more hypersensitive these days. Robust discussion is frowned on, now.
"Unnecessary snark"? How does that even compute?
Back in the day, Dakka was a open firefight in a snake pit. THESE days? Its really turned around into something Akin to your local game shop, where you'd go down and bull!@#$ around with your friends and like minded people..
Some people have a little more gaqs in the tank on some subjects, me included. But in the whole of the site, You can't get much better.
As for Bolter and Chainsword, YMMV... I didn't, and still don't, like the atmosphere there.
Here is my response, Take it or leave it.... I'm not playing.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/07/04 19:22:40
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
Thank you for clarifying Grot 6.
Interesting that your expirience from two years ago is different than mine, but then again I was not actively participating in discussions, so there is that.
I also don't think that DarkTraveler777 really took it that personal but rather used "I" and "you" as proxies in his response to explain what any reader (That encompases "me" and "you" too) might infer from your way of phrasing things. Please do correct me if I am wrong.
Here is my response, in case it was cut and pasted into some other peoples unnecessary social justice warrior fake indignation and didn't read it the first time.
This is exactly what I mean though. Why do you feel the need to assault anyone's responses in such a way? What does this discussion gain from it but another point from which to stage more and more insults?
Even though I am not a mod and do not feel like telling you what to do and what not, I would still like to kindly ask you to leave these kind's of respones and phrases outside of this thread as I do not think that t contributes in any meaningful or even healthy way to our discussion. Thank you
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/04 18:51:18
"What is the greatest illusion of life?"
"Innocence, brother, innocence."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/04 19:20:34
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
Bottle wrote: Lol, grot6 you are managing to post the saltiest of comments in a thread complaining about users being salty.
That's the thing though.
I don't see how someone wants a conversation, yet then they want to direct how people respond. I don't play that game.
I'm all for a good discussion, I'm not going to be insulted, then under the guise of "I'm offended your offended" be pushed into a Kobayashi Maru.
Out.
Reported.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
Its more that people are more hypersensitive these days. Robust discussion is frowned on, now.
"Unnecessary snark"? How does that even compute?
Your post is a pretty good example, actually. In it you imply I am hypersensitive (while also painting anyone who disagrees with you with the wide brush of hypersensitivity) while also implying that snide, sarcastic remarks are to expected to the point where calling them unnecessary doesn't "compute" for you.
Just because we are posting electronically and not having a discussion face-to-face doesn't mean we need to be dicks to one another. Having a contrary opinion doesn't make one hypersensitive or afraid of robust discussion. There is plenty of polite, robust discussion on these forums.
The urge to immediately jump down someone's throat when they take a dissenting opinion is what I think The Observer is getting at (correct me if I am wrong), and that seems to be encouraged more here than on other forums.
Not everyone wants to come to a hobby forum and engage in a gun fight. Some people just want to relax and talk about toy soldiers.
^ posted for example of exactly the point I was making..
As I said, Dakka's like going to your FLGS, and grabbing a box of figs and talking to mates.
Take it down a notch, chief. No one was even answering or even thinking about you.
In case you need me to spell it out for you I wrote what I meant, and meant what I wrote. Dakka was worse 2 years ago.
These days it is better in terms of content, relative discussion, and information exchange, it is 100% better, and the posters and information are excellent.
WHERE in the world do you even equate my post with a response to you? I don't even understand your unacceptable correlation.
Well for starters your post immediately followed mine, and was not quoting any other posts to indicate that you were actually responding to someone else. Also, your post followed a good 30 minutes after mine, so you can't pass it off as a case of us both posting simultaneously.
That is why I assumed you were referring to my post. Sorry if by doing so I pissed in your cornflakes. Perhaps you should opt out of this conversation since it is causing you distress.
The urge to immediately jump down someone's throat when they take a dissenting opinion is what I think The Observer is getting at (correct me if I am wrong), and that seems to be encouraged more here than on other forums.
Definitely not.
The 'Yellow Triangle' is conveniently placed on every post on the site - if there's something in a post that's against the rules, please report it.
This is a big, busy place - and we rely on our members to help keep it friendly.
Any time people have a passion for something, it overrides logic; KickStarter has shown us many, many examples of this. Dakka has many passionate people, and thus sometimes their logic fails miserably and they act like buffoons.
All the same, that passion is what's going to drive something forward; be it a new product, a new technique or a new viewpoint. You learn who's passions align with yours and follow them. You learn who you disagree with and find things they don't like. It's much more useful than everyone being overly polite and trying their utmost to ensure that nobody is offended. Sometimes to take in the whole horizon from within the balloon, you have to put up with a bit of hot air.
Again, who are you exactly reffering to? Why use terminology that you know can be offensive to people?
I do not want to direct how you, or anyone for that matter, responds, so do please refrain from making such baseless allegations. What I did was simply ask you to try and not be derogatory towards me or anyone in this thread. I asked you because I actually wanted to have a sensible discussion with you and not a slag-fest (Your links were actually pretty helpful, thanks for that.).
Second of all, I for my part am not offended, I simply want to have a civil discussion with you Grot 6. In what manner did I offend you? Honestly, if I did I would like to apologize, but for that you'd have to clearly state what was it that offended you, instead of going back and forth editing your posts and insulting people.
I am very sorry if you do not wish to continue this discussion and, by all means, feel free to report what you see fit, but at least try and stay civil.
Edit: Saw the warning after posting this Alpharius, if something is out of line, I apologize and will alter accordingly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/04 19:59:03
"What is the greatest illusion of life?"
"Innocence, brother, innocence."
It's been a long time since I have posted anything on this site (Years infact), but I've always been lurking. In the past 4-5 years I've observed an immense increase in snarkiness, passiv-agressivness, outright vitriol and much more in terms of toxic behaviour, not only towards GW but also towards other members.
That is your overall observation and opinion, I would not refute that but it does make one want to reply with snark... I like to think of myself as being reasonable but I have had the MODs talk to me a couple times when engaging in "lively" debate with people (I thought) long on opinion and short on facts.
It has been good for me and hopefully for others such as yourself.
You pointed out a few trigger topics and I am sure you know where certain threads are going to go, like this one which is a doozy of a title.
Since you like to "lurk" I would suggest you tune into the threads that are less controversial and I think it will be a more positive experience.
I guess it is "Don't go looking for trouble because you will find it."
It is not my place to tell anyone how they should behave anywhere and it is not what I want. Rather, I'd like to discuss if other people have had the same observation.
I may not be the crowd you are looking for.
I can say a few decades back posting on BBS's before the days of the Web, toxic behavior was worse by a long shot (Hmm better hang out at 4chan to be sure...).
Mainly because choices were few but we as a user base were also few.
Now, we have many more voices out there but we are more spoiled for choice as well (as you pointed out) so there is some dilution.
There may be less of a feeling of commitment to a community which would allow for bad manners.
I would hazard a guess that being less known here, but being more involved in B&C it may be a self-reinforcing thing: you are known there and more involved so it feels more "like home" than here.
The reason for this topic being so dear to me, is the fact that Dakka was my first introduction to an online tabletop community. It is saddening to me that such an increase in vile behaviour has happened. There are other members of Dakka that have left the site for good because of precisely such behaviour. I myself have long since migrated to Bolter and Chainsword, not only because I prefer the content but also because I feel the atmosphere to be much friendlier and less jaded. This is not meant as a personal attack or insult towards anyone, it is just my very own observation.
I would throw my hat into the ring and hazard that this group tends to be a fairly critically minded bunch.
I cannot just say some statement like "GW is the BEST!!" and not have people ask on what criteria I base that claim.
I do not expect a group hug but there is some comradery to be had and you do eventually find some "favorite" folk you like to see.
Am I just seeing things that aren't there? What are your opinions and expiriences?
My opinion: a good site, well moderated, will slap you down when you need it and when we can stay on topic (Rule #1!!) it can get pretty interesting.
The lows: the occasional people who act like they are an authority with no facts to offer, ridicule or dismiss the person and in the end find people "tiring" or "amusing".
Aside from these people that are very occasional, the majority here I find supportive and rather civil and on occasion terribly funny.
Good luck!
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
I kind of feel like this might be the case. Perhaps it hasn't changed but just seems more toxic so after spending more time at a forum with a different vibe.
I've only been a member for 2 years longer (2010 vs 2012) but I just don't feel like it's gotten much (if any) more toxic. I think Dakka -like the interwebs at large- has always had it's share of doufuses, but they do seem to be less numerous and better patrolled here than many other places.
I agree that there are places that are more genteel and more heavily moderated, like Lead Adventure (where I also post) and much less so like Frothers (where I do not).
However, Dakka has always seemed to me to be lively but not obscene, and that's part of why I've stuck around.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I was just musing to myself how much more peaceful and less aggressive Dakka was these days, it was certainly a lot more vitriolic, to me anyway, back in the days when I first joined. I have also been told that it was far more like The Old West before I came aboard.
The noise vs signal is much higher now though, can't be helped I guess with the growth of the forum.
Dakka was horrible to me when I first started, to the point where I threw out a few models thinking of how bad they where.
I posted a model, the very first one I ever painted and owned, posted it and said what do people think. The term you killed a 50$ model and trash and a few other insults where thrown around. Then I removed the model felt like crap then the topic kept going on aulting because I was too much of a .... To take the abuse.
Several weeks later I converted a model titled this model, then people chimmed in if the model fell out of someones ass or melted in the microwave.
Needless to say I toughened up since then and I still see some dakka memebers who where part of that crowd on here now. But the mods are alot better and ban for abuse but not all, check out the topic raptordread 3 pages of insults.
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
I found Dakka to be a cess pool of hatred, that special kind of rudeness where the writer thinks they're just being a "straight shooter" (in actuality just a cheap cover for ignoring social conventions of politeness), and elitism.
Generally, most of those people are still around. However, I've improved my Dakka experience greatly by refusing to engage. If someone posts a thread asking for other peoples' opinions or experiences, I respond and move on. I don't go back and look to see if anyone argued with my opinion or called me a boob.
If I post a thread asking for advice or feedback, I try to be crystal clear about what I'm looking for. (Specifically in tactics threads, where the most common response to "how can I build a list around unit X?" seems to be "Unit X is rubbish, army X is rubbish, play Eldar instead."
By limiting the possibility of being a victim of the toxic behavior of other folks, I find most of my exposure to that behavior disappears.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I was just musing to myself how much more peaceful and less aggressive Dakka was these days, it was certainly a lot more vitriolic, to me anyway, back in the days when I first joined. I have also been told that it was far more like The Old West before I came aboard.
The noise vs signal is much higher now though, can't be helped I guess with the growth of the forum.
Dakka was horrible to me when I first started, to the point where I threw out a few models thinking of how bad they where.
I posted a model, the very first one I ever painted and owned, posted it and said what do people think. The term you killed a 50$ model and trash and a few other insults where thrown around. Then I removed the model felt like crap then the topic kept going on aulting because I was too much of a .... To take the abuse.
Several weeks later I converted a model titled this model, then people chimmed in if the model fell out of someones ass or melted in the microwave.
Needless to say I toughened up since then and I still see some dakka memebers who where part of that crowd on here now. But the mods are alot better and ban for abuse but not all, check out the topic raptordread 3 pages of insults.
What this thread? The one entitled "Grimgor Ironhide" where you explicitly state this is your first model?
Which, by the time of posting was also one of your first models, where again the criticism offered, if a little direct, is still constructive and essentially encouraging?
I don't know what your agenda would be in trying to portray yourself as a victim of the generally really supportive painting community on the site, but it's demonstrably false and a matter of public record.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/04 23:28:56
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I was just musing to myself how much more peaceful and less aggressive Dakka was these days, it was certainly a lot more vitriolic, to me anyway, back in the days when I first joined. I have also been told that it was far more like The Old West before I came aboard.
The noise vs signal is much higher now though, can't be helped I guess with the growth of the forum.
Dakka was horrible to me when I first started, to the point where I threw out a few models thinking of how bad they where.
I posted a model, the very first one I ever painted and owned, posted it and said what do people think. The term you killed a 50$ model and trash and a few other insults where thrown around. Then I removed the model felt like crap then the topic kept going on aulting because I was too much of a .... To take the abuse.
Several weeks later I converted a model titled this model, then people chimmed in if the model fell out of someones ass or melted in the microwave.
Needless to say I toughened up since then and I still see some dakka memebers who where part of that crowd on here now. But the mods are alot better and ban for abuse but not all, check out the topic raptordread 3 pages of insults.
What this thread? The one entitled "Grimgor Ironhide" where you explicitly state this is your first model?
Which, by the time of posting was also one of your first models, where again the criticism offered, if a little direct, is still constructive and essentially encouraging?
I don't know what your agenda would be in trying to portray yourself as a victim of the generally really supportive painting community on the site, but it's demonstrably false and a matter of public record.
No it was about 10 years ago, not that comment he was nice .
when I first started sculpting when I was I say 14 ish. Dakka was still new. I never had any real problems since then tho.
haha I remember that death to ultra smurfs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/04 23:51:51
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
like Dark Traveler said, i come here to talk about my passion for the hobby, not get in an internet gunfight...
i have really, really been put off posting here since February, because posts about what i like are met with personal attacks time and time again...
it takes any enjoyment out of posting...
even reading posts has become too much, most of the time...
i never noticed so much vitriol in the past...
i've been a member for ten years, and in my experience, Dakka has never been worse than it is now...
i am not here to win a debate, but to have a nice conversation among a global community that enjoys painting toy soldiers...
having to argue every single point of minutia is so tiring, i would rather just not bother...
it is sad really...
after ten years of enjoyment, i am on the brink of just walking away from here...
as a regular on B&C, CMON, and WAMP, i have to say that i have never had any negative experiences on those sites, but on here, the negative outweighs the positive by a large margin over the last year...
funny enough, in person, every Dakka member that i have met have been wonderful to hang out and chat with...
almost as if the anonymity of the internet engenders a lot of trash talking that people wouldn't dare engage in face to face...
it has been great to meet up outside of the forums, and act like actual decent human beings
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I was just musing to myself how much more peaceful and less aggressive Dakka was these days, it was certainly a lot more vitriolic, to me anyway, back in the days when I first joined. I have also been told that it was far more like The Old West before I came aboard.
The noise vs signal is much higher now though, can't be helped I guess with the growth of the forum.
Dakka was horrible to me when I first started, to the point where I threw out a few models thinking of how bad they where.
I posted a model, the very first one I ever painted and owned, posted it and said what do people think. The term you killed a 50$ model and trash and a few other insults where thrown around. Then I removed the model felt like crap then the topic kept going on aulting because I was too much of a .... To take the abuse.
Several weeks later I converted a model titled this model, then people chimmed in if the model fell out of someones ass or melted in the microwave.
Needless to say I toughened up since then and I still see some dakka memebers who where part of that crowd on here now. But the mods are alot better and ban for abuse but not all, check out the topic raptordread 3 pages of insults.
What this thread? The one entitled "Grimgor Ironhide" where you explicitly state this is your first model?
Which, by the time of posting was also one of your first models, where again the criticism offered, if a little direct, is still constructive and essentially encouraging?
I don't know what your agenda would be in trying to portray yourself as a victim of the generally really supportive painting community on the site, but it's demonstrably false and a matter of public record.
No it was about 10 years ago, not that comment he was nice .
when I first started sculpting when I was I say 14 ish. Dakka was still new. I never had any real problems since then tho.
haha I remember that death to ultra smurfs.
So, you posted your first model, then, some 6 years or so later, posted it again? On a different account?
Or was this your other first model? You know, the one that.. wasn't?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I was just musing to myself how much more peaceful and less aggressive Dakka was these days, it was certainly a lot more vitriolic, to me anyway, back in the days when I first joined. I have also been told that it was far more like The Old West before I came aboard.
The noise vs signal is much higher now though, can't be helped I guess with the growth of the forum.
Dakka was horrible to me when I first started, to the point where I threw out a few models thinking of how bad they where.
I posted a model, the very first one I ever painted and owned, posted it and said what do people think. The term you killed a 50$ model and trash and a few other insults where thrown around. Then I removed the model felt like crap then the topic kept going on aulting because I was too much of a .... To take the abuse.
Several weeks later I converted a model titled this model, then people chimmed in if the model fell out of someones ass or melted in the microwave.
Needless to say I toughened up since then and I still see some dakka memebers who where part of that crowd on here now. But the mods are alot better and ban for abuse but not all, check out the topic raptordread 3 pages of insults.
What this thread? The one entitled "Grimgor Ironhide" where you explicitly state this is your first model?
Which, by the time of posting was also one of your first models, where again the criticism offered, if a little direct, is still constructive and essentially encouraging?
I don't know what your agenda would be in trying to portray yourself as a victim of the generally really supportive painting community on the site, but it's demonstrably false and a matter of public record.
No it was about 10 years ago, not that comment he was nice .
when I first started sculpting when I was I say 14 ish. Dakka was still new. I never had any real problems since then tho.
haha I remember that death to ultra smurfs.
So, you posted your first model, then, some 6 years or so later, posted it again? On a different account?
Or was this your other first model? You know, the one that.. wasn't?
It was my first after I dont know... 5 years..... I had some hard years there for a while, until I met my gf who asked what I liked and we went to a GW and so on and so on. Then came my first model the chaos lord crushing ultra smurfs. My original first model when I was god knows when back when GW gave away 2 free models. A dwarf and a goblin, I painted them with some paints I found my my used that where half dry.
But if you want a play by play
goblin
dwarf
emperors champion I posted here then felt so sad threw it out.
Chaos sorcs converted to be half horse half man, very badly done first green stuff I ever used.
Then after many years got my gf now wife and started to paint and posted my first model, the chaos lord crushing ultra smurf
There may have been a couple I did before that but that was the first one I was proud of.
soo grumpy and attacky.
On a side note for the poster above me when I am negative I try to be more fun and happy about it. I hate the new AoS wood people but I think my post was more comical with negative rather then being mean negative.
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
The Empire 
1500 pts
: 
about it. It is the expression of a lack of respect towards the people you are having a talk/discussion with and the incapability to attribute any kind of merit to their opinion, which I would argue is the wrong way of tackling a discussion. Unnecessary snark is what turned the aforementioned gender-stereotypes discussions into a deplorable cesspit, as both sides were unwilling to face the other side as an equal and valid opinion.
