Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Because im not using an airbrush to do model, i only use brushes, so should i just black prime, instead of black prime and also black base spray. Because if i make a mistake i cant really fix it with the spray can because the area is small and i only have brushes. And i dont think it would look great if i base painted black with a brush in every little gap between the trims on the heldrake.

All the trim will be gold etc, like it is on the GW box, black + gold.

Thanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know they say its hard to fix black primer with brush, but wouldn't that be the same if i sprayed with with black base?

I guess I don’t understand, you’re looking spray black primer and then spray more black paint over that? If you work slowly and methodically you should only need one coat of black primer. You can take a brush and go over the primer with Abaddon Black so you get a uniform black tone over the model of course but you shouldn’t need to spray it twice.

Leave the wings off and use blue tack on the joints to allow you spray evenly all around the wings. I use teriyaki skewers stuck in the blue tack let me spray complex shapes. Peeling off the tack from the connection points gives you a clean place to use plastic glue to put the model together as you paint those hard to reach places.

Hope that answers you.

Not entirely certain what you mean but here goes;
I use brush on primer a lot a the moment due to the weather and it can be hit and miss at times,but there are steps you can do to mitigate the problems.

1) Make sure that the model(s) are well washed in detergent, we call it washing up liquid in the UK,to get rid of any mould residue on the models which will affect the adhesion of the primer.
2) If it is a larger model you will be handling it more than with a figure so be be prepared to have areas where the primer will rub off,particularly the edges. Try to keep the handling to a minimum.
3) It all depends on the primer. I wouldn't recommend Vallejo as it (in my experience) it does not stick very well. I use 'Ultimate Primer',which is made by Badger,and while it still will rub off,it is more tougher than many others.
4) How you apply it. I find that adding a little water breaks the tension. I'd suggest at least two coats and wait at least 24 hours before starting to paint the model.
5) Spraying primer covers the model in a fine mist allowing the paint to really sink into the surface of a model,that's why it is tougher. Painting on primer covers more like a skin that sits on the surface(see 4), so the more you handle a model the more likely the skin will move.
6)Always go over primed areas with paint,even if you are painting black areas, more protection.
7) Repairing primed areas; Again,see '4'. Repairing only becomes a problem if your model has a thick primed coating,If primer chips leaving a crater you can fix this with really fine sand paper (try getting some 12000 grade papers(some model shops sell it as well as car accessory shops who use it for preparing cars for body spraying.It creates a really smooth surface with very little damage).
Hope this helps.

I’ve used Vallejo brushed on and it’s hit or miss, the Dark German Gray goes on pretty opaque but the lighter colors really struggle. The white and tan go on splotchy and tend to get a lot of bubbles in them which dry into circles if I just slap it on but the red and yellow covered decently. You can see the difference between the white and red here, that flag has one coat of Mephiston on it so you can see it’s quicker than painting over black. The dark German gray is on a 13th Company Wolf Priest conversion and it goes on very smooth and opaque but has a strange feel to it. Blacks and dark blues go on pretty smooth over it though.

To be honest if you touch up with brushed on primer you’ll really want to varnish the models.

 Fajita Fan wrote:
I guess I don’t understand, you’re looking spray black primer and then spray more black paint over that? If you work slowly and methodically you should only need one coat of black primer. You can take a brush and go over the primer with Abaddon Black so you get a uniform black tone over the model of course but you shouldn’t need to spray it twice.

Leave the wings off and use blue tack on the joints to allow you spray evenly all around the wings. I use teriyaki skewers stuck in the blue tack let me spray complex shapes. Peeling off the tack from the connection points gives you a clean place to use plastic glue to put the model together as you paint those hard to reach places.

Hope that answers you.

If im going over the black primer with Abaddon Black , why does it have to be a brush?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why cant i use a another black spray instead of a black brush

Well it’s easy to spray too much and clog detail if you’re not careful, also you’ll end up with two different shades of black if it’s not really even. It’s easier to cover one black with another when you brush it on because you can see it drying and know if you’ve got gaps.

If you want to spray your models twice go ahead, primer is chemically different than regular spray paint as it’s meant adhere to different surfaces. I’ve often wondered whether GW’s “sprays” - which if IIRC don’t say primer anywhere on the can - are actually chemically a primer or not. I only use their Leadbelcher spray on AT skeletons and I get my primer from Walmart for $4 a can.

Ok thanks. Also does any one know if its a good idea to heat my crafting knife blade up to get really fragile and sensitive to pressure parts seperated from spru? I know theres a "saw" you can get but i dont have at moment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And also, what about people that use a airbrush, wouldn't they after priming black also spray with with a base colored black?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
after spraying primer*

Using a sharp knife is the best thing. I’ve never in 20-something years of modelling heated a knife. I use dollar store snap-blade knives. If they ge dull, snap a segment or two off and you’re sharp again.

I’m not an enthusiastic painter, and while I’ve technically won a painting award it was a small, 12 person (old-school) 40k in 40 minutes thing. (Chimera, Plasma Vets and a Sentinel or Two). I’m pretty sure I won because everything I brought was painted to completion. What I’m saying is, if you do a good job with spray primer, you shouldn’t need to go over it again with anything. Spot touch-ups with Abbadon Black shouldn’t be noticeable unless you’re going for a major tournament painting trophy.

you realise im using chaos black for primer? i dont know how touch ups with abbadon wont be noticable when there different shades of black


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I primed my whole black legion with chaos black, then went over with abbadon black... so i wasted my time?

One of the guys I know does straight highlights on black primer. Looks atrocious, to me, personally. Mostly because the primer too matte looking.

Personally, if I prime it black, I always put a layer of regular paint on, to further paint it black. Because you never leave black just blast - it's blasphemy. Even more of a blasphemy if you leave the primer as a black

*shrug* I’d say you wasted your time, yes. Assuming you drybrushed some grey highlights over the black underneath, you wasted your time.

If you left the colour flat black, yes, you wasted your time. (Flat black looks unfinished.)

You would have been better served with a grey primer if you planned to go over the entire model anyway. Assuming properly thinned paint, the grey primer would have shown through the paint a bit on the raised edges and would have created natural highlights, without the harsh/dusty appearance of dry brushing.

iv never herd of painting a model that's mostly black with just the black primer and not add black base.

it seems your commen clashes with others in this thread so i duno,

I know that all of the Warhammer TV videos they suggest painting Abaddon Black over Chaos Black because they have different finishes.

Again, what purpose does painting black over black serve?

The finish will be different, but that is because you’re using primer and that’s the point. Your finish will change when you apply sealer, too.

Putting black over black is a waste of time, but it is your time to waste so that’s up to you. If you want your painted black to accomplish something, put it over grey primer instead. It will add depth to your black, which would make the extra effort worthwhile.

I would recommend applying a black basecoat over black primer because if you need to correct any painting mistakes/want to repaint a detail in black the newly applied paint will look different than the rest of the surface.

Frankly, the difference is minimal and if you don’t highlight the black somehow it will look like crap anyway. So, presuming either glazing or drybrushing on the highlight, you’ll be covering the base black anyhow.

It’s your time to spend how you want, but adding more black on top of black isn’t improving your mini. You’re spending more money on paint and brushes, so no doubt that vendors would approve.

What’s your current technique for painting black?

 greatbigtree wrote:
Frankly, the difference is minimal and if you don’t highlight the black somehow it will look like crap anyway. So, presuming either glazing or drybrushing on the highlight, you’ll be covering the base black anyhow.

It’s your time to spend how you want, but adding more black on top of black isn’t improving your mini. You’re spending more money on paint and brushes, so no doubt that vendors would approve.

What’s your current technique for painting black?

Me? I paint black then edge highlight with eshin grey then I use a finer highlight of fenrisian grey. Or just use straight fenrisian grey if I'm going for a quicker result. There is still quite a bit of the black showing.

On my guard tanks I used black primer and then just painted the camo scheme disruptive pattern straight over it leaving th3 black as the base colour.



Multiple touch ups have been needed, but I can't say I've seen particularly much difference between the primer and the abbadon black used for that purpose. I've only ever done.minimal highlighting on the black as.well. I guess having the other colours on the pattern highlighted helps distract the eye from the black and any weirdness therein.

@ Custom Lime: So, on a Marine, if you were painting it black, you wouldn't highlight the crowns of the pauldrons? The top, rounded part where light would hit most? Just black, and then edge highlight... nothing?

For example, from a Grey Primer I'd paint the mini with very thin Abbadon Black. Thinner than 2% milk. Two coats. This would create a near charcoal black, but the upper ridges would have distinct grey highlights still. From there, add a wash of Nuln Oil to downplay the highlights some, and ensure the deepest crevasses are black-black.

If you're priming black and then painting black and then just edge highlighting, no panel will have any kind of gradation of tone... it will still be flat black. At which point why care about whether or not Abaddon Black matches... it's just flat colour anyhow.

While this is probably coming off as paint-snobby... why put that effort in? Why not just go straight to the edge highlight? Any small smears will be covered just fine with Abby and after you seal it you won't be able to tell where the touch-ups are.

 greatbigtree wrote:
@ Custom Lime: So, on a Marine, if you were painting it black, you wouldn't highlight the crowns of the pauldrons? The top, rounded part where light would hit most? Just black, and then edge highlight... nothing?

For example, from a Grey Primer I'd paint the mini with very thin Abbadon Black. Thinner than 2% milk. Two coats. This would create a near charcoal black, but the upper ridges would have distinct grey highlights still. From there, add a wash of Nuln Oil to downplay the highlights some, and ensure the deepest crevasses are black-black.

If you're priming black and then painting black and then just edge highlighting, no panel will have any kind of gradation of tone... it will still be flat black. At which point why care about whether or not Abaddon Black matches... it's just flat colour anyhow.

While this is probably coming off as paint-snobby... why put that effort in? Why not just go straight to the edge highlight? Any small smears will be covered just fine with Abby and after you seal it you won't be able to tell where the touch-ups are.

I would say this, the reason to use abbadon over the black primer would be to apply it in a way where the edges are left with the chaos black so its not just a flat black. Another reason is if you did it your way, you would get more of a grey look over all, i want a very black black legion, so it guess it comes down to what look ur looking for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So basicly what ill do is this, ill just spray the thing black, then only apply abbadon on areas where i want it to be brighter

I have painted black shoulderpads so what I typically do I paint in a line of eshin grey just apart from the rim then a 50/50 mix of eshin grey/fenrisian grey towards the top and pure fenrisian grey at the very top. If I’m painting a character model I’ll glaze to create a smoother gradient. There are multiple ways to paint black with either highlight up or layering with greys. I just prefer starker highlights.

And I am just a stickler for paint finish.

Never mind, i get it now, thanks everyone.

Wait i have another question, but don't want to make a new thread for it lol. Basicly i want to try my best to re create the exact look of the heldrake gold trim thats on the front of the GW box, the black and gold one. So ill try guess how they went about the gold trim assuming they used a paint brush to do it. So would it be - Paint the base gold colour over the trim

- wash all the gold leaving some around the edges of the middle areas to create a shade
- then do a thin coat of the orginal gold base to restore the parts between the rivets but only a small portion between the rivets so i get same effect as one on the box.

- then do a slightly thicker orginal base over most of the thin coat i did before so it blends in more ( like it does on the picture of box )

- and then move on to the edge highlighst etc etc

So is this how they acheived that specific look do you think>?

Thank you.

I would start with your base gold (probably a lighter gold). It looks like they're pooling heavy amounts of black wash or maybe Agrax (dark brown) shade near the rivets, and along the spine.

It looks like non-metallic metal technique, used with metallic paint. Or maybe it's full-on non metallic metal, hard to tell from a single angle. The active shading to near-black in the darker areas suggests that.

NMM is not a technique I've tried, I don't like how it looks "off" if viewed from an unintended angle. I'd try a quick search for Non-Metalic Metal painting technique.

Yeah i thought pooling was what they did also. Ill see how i go - But what about the black on the wings big tree

This is where you say some thing that confuses me. But it looks to me they used two blacks on the wings looooooooool not just leftit prime lol

The idea of using two blacks big tree is not two of the same colored blacks, but one black and one lighter black thats all, so you dont go right to the edges so it creates a shade. yo know?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any way tree, ill show you a picture of my army in a couple of days and you can tell me your honest thoughts

Looks to me more like a black / grey / white marble effect.

Looks to me they used a brush definitly for the inbetween rivets area, so i guess they did a bit of a feathering effect for the blending of the ends of each end of the parts between the rivets - What i said makes no sence. im sure of it/

 Stormatious wrote:
iv never herd of painting a model that's mostly black with just the black primer and not add black base.

it seems your commen clashes with others in this thread so i duno,

Its personal choice. Duncan from GW (who does tutorials on WHTV) recommends spraying then handbrushing on black, so when you go back to fix mistakes, you don't get two different finishes.

I on the other hand, don't. Reason being, when Duncan paints his Deathwatch Marines, he carefully edge-highlights every armour panel, so mistakes can be painted over without changing the armour at all. When I paint my Deathwatch, I drybrush heavily all over, then wash with Nuln Oil. If I want to fix a mistake, I would need to paint black, re-drybrush only on that spot, then wash only on that spot, and it would still turn out differently. So in my case, I work straight from the spray primer.

Neither is wrong, its just a preference.