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@Newabortion

i agree, 40k tech wins all the way from a terminator walking up to the tank, shrugging of shell and then crumpling the tank with his power fist, the whole discussion is moet, The fluff says that 100 marines can take an advanced planet, then current earth wouldn't stand a chance.

Anyway the weak-point of an Abraham's is its gas tank, kill the supply line and you have some nice roadblock material.

one can dream of a plasic thunderhawk

Seriously, guys, ignore lists are there for a reason.

Gitzbitah wrote:
So- open megalith- what are your bets? Super transporter, or Death Ray?

I'm on the side of Death Ray, probably based around teleporting asteroids out of thin air at you, or something equally over the top.

Could be an Aeonic Orb, especially if they're drawing from Epic with these new releases. Oh, how I hope it's an Aeonic Orb!

Neither of them are Megaliths though unless the "drops numerous Monoliths off of its hull" thing in our Codex was a lie.

Maybe the closed version is a Warbarque? Aren't those basically souped-up Monoliths?

The rumours so far have completely deflated my hype for the new Apoc apart from the book itself of course, I suppose at least I can now concentrate on a new army or something.

Really hope more WD pics get leaked though, need to know whats releasing so I dont have to sit here waiting when I could be planning my next purchase.

Yeah, and awesomely, these leaks came out just before the Deadzone kickstarter ended.

With no appearance of a Knight Paladin, all my spare cash went into that.

Plus with the current Chaos models looking so frigging daft, including the big guy, my Chaos Space Marine army plans have been put on hold. Probably indefinitely. - Which is really annoying considering I bought a hellblade this time last year!

My GW spending plans for the forseeable future are the Apocalypse rulebook, Abaddon+Loken and the new Space Marine codex.

Chaos models only looks daft( to you) if you don't convert them...

But really, playing Chaos and not converting the heck out of it , doesn't makes sense...

its like being a metal fan, but you don't like Dio...

Speaking of wich...

Has this thread really descended into a "could we fight the Imperium" thread?

#sad

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Chaos models only looks daft( to you) if you don't convert them...

But really, playing Chaos and not converting the heck out of it , doesn't makes sense...

its like being a metal fan, but you don't like Dio...

Speaking of wich...

That makes me want to get a Khornemower, convert it to a mobile stage, replace the axe with a coffee urn and model Dethklok performing in it. Bravo, sir!

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Chaos models only looks daft( to you) if you don't convert them...

But really, playing Chaos and not converting the heck out of it , doesn't makes sense...

its like being a metal fan, but you don't like Dio...

It's the exact opposite of being a metal fan that doesn't like Dio. It's like being a metal fan who likes Dio, and not the one who thinks Dio sounds like gak unless you remix it.

Khornmower with a skulldozer.

[This was uncalled for]

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
A good model can make up for poor rules by being a nice display piece. A poor model is still going to look silly, no matter if it has BS5 and a Str D AP1 heavy 30 weapon or not.

I deeply disagree with that.

If a terrible model has nice( or good ) rules, you can always convert or kitbash the model.

If a good model has terrible rules, no matter what, it will stay terrible, and having a dust collector that costs 100$ on my shelve, is not something good, or i can use it, or i don't buy it( yes despite beeing the geek i am i don't collect action figures and such, don't have enough place at home for that).

But thats more a matter of perspective i think.

What i'm really curious is how the Apoc rules will be changed and to what degree.

Because there is gonna be changes, no matter what, still wonder if it will stay an Happy-go-all thing, or something with a bit more structure at the price of freedom.

Im sure the apoc rules haven't changed much, it will still be the brutally one sided waste of time and lesson in money priority as it was before. GW expansions are and always have been pointless.

BramGaunt over at Warseer wrote:So, a birdy just chirped in and told me what to expect next month.

1st: There is a new rulebook, if anyone still questioned that. Complete overhaul. The scale of additional shenanigans will be the same as with a regular rulebook, as well as limited items. Probably a collectors- and a gamers edition aswell (allthough I am only guessing that!).

2nd: The kits we have seen so far cover all the miniatures there will be for now (Khorne "Skulldozer" and Necron "Monolith of Doom + 2D6"). However, there are three new pieces of terrain, which apperantly are of apocalyptic size. A different source told me of a 'commad citadel' behind which the Wraithknight could easily hide.

3rd: Releasedate is the 13th of July, with Preorders starting the 29th (with the new WD, as usual). This is GW's big release this year.

Best_Pone over at Warseer wrote:Let's see now...
You've already seen the Chaos and Necron superheavies.
You'll also get some fortifications - giant gun/missile emplacements and the like. These are also designed to hook up with the Wall of Martyrs terrain.
As well as the Apocalypse rulebook, there's also a collector's edition and a gamer's edition.

 Kroothawk wrote:

BramGaunt over at Warseer wrote:So, a birdy just chirped in and told me what to expect next month.

1st: There is a new rulebook, if anyone still questioned that. Complete overhaul. The scale of additional shenanigans will be the same as with a regular rulebook, as well as limited items. Probably a collectors- and a gamers edition aswell (allthough I am only guessing that!).

2nd: The kits we have seen so far cover all the miniatures there will be for now (Khorne "Skulldozer" and Necron "Monolith of Doom + 2D6"). However, there are three new pieces of terrain, which apperantly are of apocalyptic size. A different source told me of a 'commad citadel' behind which the Wraithknight could easily hide.

3rd: Releasedate is the 13th of July, with Preorders starting the 29th (with the new WD, as usual). This is GW's big release this year.

Best_Pone over at Warseer wrote:Let's see now...
You've already seen the Chaos and Necron superheavies.
You'll also get some fortifications - giant gun/missile emplacements and the like. These are also designed to hook up with the Wall of Martyrs terrain.
As well as the Apocalypse rulebook, there's also a collector's edition and a gamer's edition.

So the only 'new' bit (not counting the fact that there's some unrecognised piece of terrain in the monolith picture) is the new terrain and some 'guesses' there will be a collector's edition (which given GW's releases lately seems very very likely).

 Kroothawk wrote:

BramGaunt over at Warseer wrote:So, a birdy just chirped in and told me what to expect next month.

1st: There is a new rulebook, if anyone still questioned that. Complete overhaul. The scale of additional shenanigans will be the same as with a regular rulebook, as well as limited items. Probably a collectors- and a gamers edition aswell (allthough I am only guessing that!).

2nd: The kits we have seen so far cover all the miniatures there will be for now (Khorne "Skulldozer" and Necron "Monolith of Doom + 2D6"). However, there are three new pieces of terrain, which apperantly are of apocalyptic size. A different source told me of a 'commad citadel' behind which the Wraithknight could easily hide.

3rd: Releasedate is the 13th of July, with Preorders starting the 29th (with the new WD, as usual). This is GW's big release this year.

Best_Pone over at Warseer wrote:Let's see now...
You've already seen the Chaos and Necron superheavies.
You'll also get some fortifications - giant gun/missile emplacements and the like. These are also designed to hook up with the Wall of Martyrs terrain.
As well as the Apocalypse rulebook, there's also a collector's edition and a gamer's edition.

We can't supply enough material to flgs, but somehow we can make kits so huge that only three people might buy it and clog up our warehouses for months I know people will buy terrain, but really, can't GW work on getting the armies to people before trying to get people to want bigger armies that they can't supply?

The first set of Apocalypse rules were really just play with what you want and here's a bunch of stuff you can't use in regular 40k. Which is fine and the rules served their purpose, but to me it was more like I don't need to buy a $50 book for GWs permission to make up rules and use whatever models I want, plus the point values for the Apocalypse formations and Apocalypse units seemed arbitrary and had little to do with their combat effectiveness.

GW could expand on the 2000+pt format similar to how Adepticon runs its Gladiator tournament where Superheavies replace the secondary FOC or use rules that allow for multiple allied detachments or unit sizes above their normally allowed maxes(for example squads of 12 Necron Wraiths). Really what it needs is some level of structure which the first edition felt was essential to simply ignore. However, I felt it made the game beyond broken and simply not fun at all to play.

Thanks for that! Now I'm sure I'm not losing out on anything, thanks to Mantic's new terrain releases.

BramGaunt over at Warseer wrote:A different source told me of a 'commad citadel' behind which the Wraithknight could easily hide.

Does Mr. Source know that you can already hide a Wraithknight behind an Imperial Bastian?

 Breotan wrote:

BramGaunt over at Warseer wrote:A different source told me of a 'commad citadel' behind which the Wraithknight could easily hide.

Does Mr. Source know that you can already hide a Wraithknight behind an Imperial Bastian?

It's probably the new eldar outpost he's talking about(basically the bastion, but with stick on gems to make it eldary, just like the spikes make it chaos ) sorry, couldn't resist.

Drakmord wrote:

Gitzbitah wrote:
So- open megalith- what are your bets? Super transporter, or Death Ray?

I'm on the side of Death Ray, probably based around teleporting asteroids out of thin air at you, or something equally over the top.

Could be an Aeonic Orb, especially if they're drawing from Epic with these new releases. Oh, how I hope it's an Aeonic Orb!

Neither of them are Megaliths though unless the "drops numerous Monoliths off of its hull" thing in our Codex was a lie.

Maybe the closed version is a Warbarque? Aren't those basically souped-up Monoliths?

Actually, Aeonic Orb sounds pretty likely:

From Lexicamum:

This essence is then encased in an orb-shaped containment field that sits on top of a skimmer platform, giving this weapon system frightening mobility, which is most often used to give the Æonic Orb the most favorable firing positions to take out enemy titans.

The image next to the entry also looks similar to the weapon mounted on the new Necron vehicle:

 Shandara wrote:
So the only 'new' bit (not counting the fact that there's some unrecognised piece of terrain in the monolith picture) is the new terrain and some 'guesses' there will be a collector's edition (which given GW's releases lately seems very very likely).

Thought it was clear enough. Anyway:

Bramgaunt:
1.) Release date 13th July (so second week!, plus 2 weeks preorder time)
2.) Confirms two unit kits (and not more than two units, for e.g. other armies))
3.) Confirms 3 terrain kits (we might have seen the edge of one), one of them a command citadel
4.) Confirms rulebook with complete overhaul of rules (and yes, Apocalypse 1 had some rules to simplify fight on such a big scale) .

Best_Pone confirms Gamer's and Collector's edition and a gun/missile emplacement fitting the Wall of Martyrs.

 BrassScorpion wrote:


Though I am proud of my Land Raider Ultra conversion:

Spoiler:

I just have to say that I hated the terminus, but I love your version, so much better

shade1313 wrote:

Power generation for the battlefield gear, too. Just imagine the kinds of weapons we could put into use with an understanding of the power cells that are used on a lascannon. Or even just the possibilities in the generator backpack that every suit of power armor in the Imperium uses.

Portable energy generation and power armour would be the two main advantages of the Imperium.

Considering the Astartes vs. modern humans scenario, I would suggest that a Lascannon or a Meltagun packs enough punch to go through a modern battle tank, considering that they are supposed to be more powerful than "average" anti-armour missiles. If we combine such a powerful man-portable weapon with a highly mobile Astartes who's very difficult to kill, that's gonna be a problem, especially in urban battlezones that provide a lot of cover and are very difficult to level completely or cordon off. If there's more than one marine, you also have the problem of excellent training, motivation, communication and coordination between them.

I think you would need a .50 or larger to touch an Astartes, and he could take a few of those and still be able to function. Considering that modern armies have problems of flushing out poorly equipped insurgents from urban areas, even a single Astartes might be a big problem, let alone a squad of them. You could send squads of APCs with 20-30mm cannons after a single marine, but considering an Astartes is a small, well-armored and fast moving target able to snipe from shadows, I'd say you'd lose many of them.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
So the only 'new' bit (not counting the fact that there's some unrecognised piece of terrain in the monolith picture) is the new terrain and some 'guesses' there will be a collector's edition (which given GW's releases lately seems very very likely).

Thought it was clear enough. Anyway:

Bramgaunt:
1.) Release date 13th July (so second week!, plus 2 weeks preorder time)
2.) Confirms two unit kits (and not more than two units, for e.g. other armies))
3.) Confirms 3 terrain kits (we might have seen the edge of one), one of them a command citadel
4.) Confirms rulebook with complete overhaul of rules (and yes, Apocalypse 1 had some rules to simplify fight on such a big scale) .

Best_Pone confirms Gamer's and Collector's edition and a gun/missile emplacement fitting the Wall of Martyrs.

Will there be some discount packages for multiple tanks etc? How is Apocalypse a big release if all they do is release 2 models and one book that tells people to make up their own rules?

 Therion wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
You can try to rationalize it, but it's just gilding thin air, the closer you look at it the more it breaks down.

I can see there's no getting through to you really.

The US have ten thousand Abrams tanks alone. It's a tank much more advanced (by about 50 years) than say a Leman Russ. How many Space Marines does it take to defeat an Abrams MBT? It's just absolutely terrible when you realise that the US military alone could defeat half the armed forces of the Imperium that is supposed to control billions (do you understand the word billions) of star systems during an age with all imaginable technologies available to it. The scale of both space and of populations required and of armed conflicts is so wrong its unreal and nothing you can do to rationalise it with GW's pseudo science ("it works despite making no sense because we have this whateverdevice") regarding their troop armour and weapons will justify it.

The US could do bugger all after all major cities were destroyed by precision strike orbital bombardment and 100 marines stormed the white house forcing the presidant to surrender.

Just look at the Opium War - 20,000 British soldiers defeated a nation of 300 million people, equipped with modern arms and artillery. But they still got their ass handed to them by a better organised opponent who were able to strike at will.

200 space marines could easily pacify a planet, simply because they could strike whenever and wherever they wanted, with complete local superiority of arms.

 Therion wrote:
Will there be some discount packages for multiple tanks etc? How is Apocalypse a big release if all they do is release 2 models and one book that tells people to make up their own rules?

That's what I'd like to know. The first release of Apocalypse only introduced the baneblade IIRC, but we got all the bundles to go with it (three tanks for $90, woo). If all we get this time around are two "big" kits and some "big" terrain kits that honestly sound like they might be too impractical for regular games (like the stupid fortress), then this release sounds like it's going to be pretty weak. Two whole armies actually get models to buy, holy gak.

Or you could be optimistic and take note of the reduced price GW bundles that have been released...maybe we'll get six Leman Russes @ 15% off? Hell I'd pay that.

Depends how GW goes about it, last time GW sold the bundles to LGSs and you could get a further discount. With GWs current state of mind I imagine its all direct only.

 BryllCream wrote:
Or you could be optimistic

NEVER.

Ravenous D wrote:With GWs current state of mind I imagine its all direct only.

I hope not. If they are direct only I don't know if I'd be buying any. I'm gonna be spending full retail on them anyway since I don't get discounts at my LGS, but I'd prefer to support my store instead.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Depends how GW goes about it, last time GW sold the bundles to LGSs and you could get a further discount. With GWs current state of mind I imagine its all direct only.

That would be a classic move..

"Look! For a limited time you can buy these things from us for only slightly more than most of you pay for them all the time! This is good news!!!!1"