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barnowl wrote:
You do get that nids are designed as a short range firepower army first, Assault army second? Despite the current fluff all being about the close combat, the original intent of the nids was to be a 6-18" army shooting army. This meant nids' also needed solid assault options. The lack of grenades despite strong melee capacity tends to reflect this still. The Flyrant and Dakkafex are posterbugs for this, massive short range firepower with enough assault to finish off the survivors.

I believe list are designed not armies, all of the ranged weapons are assault weapons which in of itself means that they intended for the army to get in cc. Besides the tl devourers name another range weapon that makes our enemies jealous?

 CKO wrote:

barnowl wrote:
You do get that nids are designed as a short range firepower army first, Assault army second? Despite the current fluff all being about the close combat, the original intent of the nids was to be a 6-18" army shooting army. This meant nids' also needed solid assault options. The lack of grenades despite strong melee capacity tends to reflect this still. The Flyrant and Dakkafex are posterbugs for this, massive short range firepower with enough assault to finish off the survivors.

I believe list are designed not armies, all of the ranged weapons are assault weapons which in of itself means that they intended for the army to get in cc. Besides the tl devourers name another range weapon that makes our enemies jealous?

Tyranids are a much better shooty army than an assault army. The fluff denies this, but that's just how the army plays. And assault weapons are not just meant to assault after, it means that the army is designed to move and shoot. Tyranids are designed to be moving towards you at all times, and shooting all the way while they do. Tyranids have to keep moving at all times, or they will find themselves outgunned at range while they can't apply their full firepower. Sadly the only unit in our army that is actually good at shooting and assault is the Dakkafex, everything else is situational at best. Quite frankly I can and have gone entire games without declaring an assault and been very satisfied with the results. The Dakkafex is designed to shoot and then assault, but Tyranids are not.

Eldercaveman wrote:

foto69man wrote:

 foto69man wrote:

jpevansiii wrote:

 foto69man wrote:
Thank you all for convincing me to buy this model...amazing detail and I can't wait to field it tomorrow!

Good for you. I ordered mine a few days ago. Still is in the mail on its way! I just hope it gets here in time for an 1850 tournament this weekend.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 foto69man wrote:
Thank you all for convincing me to buy this model...amazing detail and I can't wait to field it tomorrow!

Would you be an awesome human being and take some dimensions for me?

I will take dimensions and post pics of the battle tomorrw as it's 1:30a here. But she did AMAZING...didn't lose a wound...and popped out 20 gargoyles at the end to take an objective

And a slight teaser...

Here's the pic with measurements, and the wings are 14" from cannon to wing tip and 8" from joint to fullest point. Included a Banshee, Crisis Suit, Winged Tyrant, and Tyrannofex for size comparison

Cheers, is your Harridan magnetised/would it be to hard to magnetise the wings?


@DarkSabre, even without the str 10 attack it can still make 7 Str 7 ap2 attacks on the charge + plus hammer of wrath.

Mine are pinned/glued. You might be able to magnetize using super strong magnets, but then you wouldn't be ale to get it near any electronics. Or use really large, strong pins. Steel rods?

If you want to limit yourself to two maybe three units go ahead but I will try to take advantage of all that the nids have to offer.

 CKO wrote:

barnowl wrote:
You do get that nids are designed as a short range firepower army first, Assault army second? Despite the current fluff all being about the close combat, the original intent of the nids was to be a 6-18" army shooting army. This meant nids' also needed solid assault options. The lack of grenades despite strong melee capacity tends to reflect this still. The Flyrant and Dakkafex are posterbugs for this, massive short range firepower with enough assault to finish off the survivors.

I believe list are designed not armies, all of the ranged weapons are assault weapons which in of itself means that they intended for the army to get in cc. Besides the tl devourers name another range weapon that makes our enemies jealous?

You are missing the point. The point is that close combat monsters that have no ranged presence will not contribute anything to your offense for the first couple turns, during which they can be shot off the board. The good TMCs typically either have good shooting (Dakkafex, T-Fex) to allow them to do some damage on the way into combat, or a good way to get into combat in the first place (Mawloc), or both (Flyrant). There is no question that many Nid units are good in assault, but unfortunately many of our opponents have units that are better in assault than our units. Heck, even Orks can give Tyranids a run for their money. Lots of Boyz backed up with Klaws, charging on a Waagh! can easily rock a TMC's world and lose just a handful of Boyz in return. Our assault units also lack an Invuln save, which makes them pretty easy to ID with Force weapons and the like. That goes for Dima, as well. I also happen to not be very impressed by Dima's anti-vehicle capabilities, and that matters to me because I see a lot of AV14. A Fex, or frankly, a Haruspex, is going to do more work against high AVs than this guy at a lower price.

By all means, though, go ahead and try out Dima. I'm sure many people will be curious to see how it does, but it doesn't solve any problems for my army that I can't use another TMC to do. Let us know how it works out.

 CKO wrote:
If you want to limit yourself to two maybe three units go ahead but I will try to take advantage of all that the nids have to offer.

So you're just going to ignore what I was saying and pretend that's what I said?
Cool story, but I can promise you that you won't make Pyrovores into some magic unknown sleeper model.

rigeld2 wrote:

 CKO wrote:
If you want to limit yourself to two maybe three units go ahead but I will try to take advantage of all that the nids have to offer.

Cool story, but I can promise you that you won't make Pyrovores into some magic unknown sleeper model.

I apologize riegld2 there are 3 good shooty units that I see the flyrant, dakkafex, and exocrines. I was trying to point that out, I did not mean to disregard what you are saying I am simply saying that getting into assault is possible but it will not work in a min max style list a min max cc list doesnt work.

Asmodas wrote:
You are missing the point. The point is that close combat monsters that have no ranged presence will not contribute anything to your offense for the first couple turns, during which they can be shot off the board. The good TMCs typically either have good shooting (Dakkafex, T-Fex) to allow them to do some damage on the way into combat, or a good way to get into combat in the first place (Mawloc), or both (Flyrant). There is no question that many Nid units are good in assault, but unfortunately many of our opponents have units that are better in assault than our units. Heck, even Orks can give Tyranids a run for their money. Lots of Boyz backed up with Klaws, charging on a Waagh! can easily rock a TMC's world and lose just a handful of Boyz in return. Our assault units also lack an Invuln save, which makes them pretty easy to ID with Force weapons and the like. That goes for Dima, as well. I also happen to not be very impressed by Dima's anti-vehicle capabilities, and that matters to me because I see a lot of AV14. A Fex, or frankly, a Haruspex, is going to do more work against high AVs than this guy at a lower price.

By all means, though, go ahead and try out Dima. I'm sure many people will be curious to see how it does, but it doesn't solve any problems for my army that I can't use another TMC to do. Let us know how it works out.

I give up, I will not be able to convince other fleets that the assault phase is where its at. Just to be clear the overall consensus on this thread is that gettinng into cc is such a daunting task that all cc units in the codex is at a disadvantage thus bad.

I am sorry but my opinion on the Dimachaeron will not change we have been complaining about the Trygon forever and now we have a creature that is ws 8, i 6, has 7 - 10 atks a turn, str 8 ap 2 (fc), can get a 4+ feel no pain save, has a 4+ instant death rule, jumps six everyturn and we are complaining, CMON MAN!

 CKO wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 CKO wrote:
If you want to limit yourself to two maybe three units go ahead but I will try to take advantage of all that the nids have to offer.

Cool story, but I can promise you that you won't make Pyrovores into some magic unknown sleeper model.

I apologize riegld2 there are 3 good shooty units that I see the flyrant, dakkafex, and exocrines. I was trying to point that out, I did not mean to disregard what you are saying I am simply saying that getting into assault is possible but it will not work in a min max style list a min max cc list doesnt work.

Which has literally nothing to do with the issue we were talking about.
What you originally said:

This is the thing I dont understand about other fleets when it comes to spawning our armies. Why is it that we recognize the disadvantage of being outranged and outgun by every army but, we only apply it to our cc units

But what you're actually not understanding is that we recognize the disadvantage of being outranged on Dakkafexes, et. al. but we also recognize that there's a bubble of effective threat for every unit. Dakkafexes have a 24" bubble. Dimes have ~14". Which number is bigger?

I give up, I will not be able to convince other fleets that the assault phase is where its at. Just to be clear the overall consensus on this thread is that gettinng into cc is such a daunting task that all cc units in the codex is at a disadvantage thus bad.

No, that's what you want the overall consensus to be. What's actually been said is that for slow models (and Dime is a slow model. So is the Trygon, but it can Deep Strike) being restricted to CC is bad.

I am sorry but my opinion on the Dimachaeron will not change we have been complaining about the Trygon forever and now we have a creature that is ws 8, i 6, has 7 - 10 atks a turn, str 8 ap 2 (fc), can get a 4+ feel no pain save, has a 4+ instant death rule, jumps six everyturn and we are complaining, CMON MAN!

On paper the stats on a Dime are better. That's not the whole story though - it takes a Dime 2 turns to cross 24" (6" move plus 4" run, 6" move plus 8" charge) and it's exposed both turns. A Trygon (your comparison) is the same price (essentially) and makes it into assault one turn slower, but contributes through shooting on turn 2 and is only exposed to shooting for one turn. And if the distance is any greater than 24" (Hammer and Anvil, refused flank, opponent isn't stupid) the Dime takes longer to get there, but the Trygon always pops up in approximately the right place. The jump 6" every turn is a gimmick (assuming GW rules that it's moving through cover even though it's explicitly over cover).

You're looking at the stats in a vacuum and seeing that it's good. The rest of us are looking at the stats with table experience with Nids and seeing that some things just don't work. A model with 1000 attacks that instant kills everything with no saves allowed is crappy if it only moves 6" a turn and has no special deployment methods.

 CKO wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 CKO wrote:
If you want to limit yourself to two maybe three units go ahead but I will try to take advantage of all that the nids have to offer.

Cool story, but I can promise you that you won't make Pyrovores into some magic unknown sleeper model.

I apologize riegld2 there are 3 good shooty units that I see the flyrant, dakkafex, and exocrines. I was trying to point that out, I did not mean to disregard what you are saying I am simply saying that getting into assault is possible but it will not work in a min max style list a min max cc list doesnt work.

Asmodas wrote:
You are missing the point. The point is that close combat monsters that have no ranged presence will not contribute anything to your offense for the first couple turns, during which they can be shot off the board. The good TMCs typically either have good shooting (Dakkafex, T-Fex) to allow them to do some damage on the way into combat, or a good way to get into combat in the first place (Mawloc), or both (Flyrant). There is no question that many Nid units are good in assault, but unfortunately many of our opponents have units that are better in assault than our units. Heck, even Orks can give Tyranids a run for their money. Lots of Boyz backed up with Klaws, charging on a Waagh! can easily rock a TMC's world and lose just a handful of Boyz in return. Our assault units also lack an Invuln save, which makes them pretty easy to ID with Force weapons and the like. That goes for Dima, as well. I also happen to not be very impressed by Dima's anti-vehicle capabilities, and that matters to me because I see a lot of AV14. A Fex, or frankly, a Haruspex, is going to do more work against high AVs than this guy at a lower price.

By all means, though, go ahead and try out Dima. I'm sure many people will be curious to see how it does, but it doesn't solve any problems for my army that I can't use another TMC to do. Let us know how it works out.

I give up, I will not be able to convince other fleets that the assault phase is where its at. Just to be clear the overall consensus on this thread is that gettinng into cc is such a daunting task that all cc units in the codex is at a disadvantage thus bad.

I am sorry but my opinion on the Dimachaeron will not change we have been complaining about the Trygon forever and now we have a creature that is ws 8, i 6, has 7 - 10 atks a turn, str 8 ap 2 (fc), can get a 4+ feel no pain save, has a 4+ instant death rule, jumps six everyturn and we are complaining, CMON MAN!

You are missing a number of other good shooters on your list: Biovores, T-Fex (with Acid Spray, of course), Warriors, Shrikes, Crones, Harpies, Devilgaunts. So it is not like there are only three units.

And, again, assault is great if you can get there. I know you are new to the army, but the $200 you spend on this gribbly could get you a Flyrant, a Carnifex and a Crone. People are trying to convince you not to make a mistake with your new army. Trust me, I know. I'm the guy who built a Haruspex because it looked cool (and it still does look cool). So, Caveat emptor, and good luck.

 CKO wrote:

I give up, I will not be able to convince other fleets that the assault phase is where its at. Just to be clear the overall consensus on this thread is that gettinng into cc is such a daunting task that all cc units in the codex is at a disadvantage thus bad.

Unfortunately, due to the strong shooting of some of the top armies (Tau and Eldar), assault nids, while fun, just isn't viable anymore, at least not in competitive play.

Assault is only viable via Maximum Threat Overload strategy, where the assault units need to be highly mobile, and even then, it still cannot fully compete with the top tournament armies.

MTO shooty Tyranids is IMO our most competitive builds. In such an army, units are ideally at least dual roles, either fast and shooty or fast and assaulty or assaulty and shooty. Also, assaulty doesn't necessarily have to be killy. Assaulty could be a tarpit unit meant to tie up enemy offensive units.

I am sorry but my opinion on the Dimachaeron will not change we have been complaining about the Trygon forever and now we have a creature that is ws 8, i 6, has 7 - 10 atks a turn, str 8 ap 2 (fc), can get a 4+ feel no pain save, has a 4+ instant death rule, jumps six everyturn and we are complaining, CMON MAN!

Actually, I agree. The Dima isn't a competitive unit. He doesn't have what it takes to make the army competitive enough against the top armies. However, that doesn't mean he isn't a good unit either. He could work in the right list. More importantly, at least for me, is that he gives bugs an assault presence that demands respect once again. Currently, our assault units really are a joke. However, the Dima makes Tyranid an army to be feared again in a walking Tyranid list. A couple of dimas, flyrants, hive guards, venom(s), a tervigon (or 2) and exocrines/dakkafexes/tyrannofex makes for a resilient walking wall of Tyranid shooting death.

Well, any excuse for me to run the dimas will do.

From what i see in ForgeWorld, there's two different Stonecrusher Carnifexes. Is it just esthetic or can you choose different weapons/stats?
Anyone know if they are the same size as normal carnifexes? Though i think the one i have is an older model, so maybe not even the same size as the present carnifexes. =/

Anyone could tell me about how much points a Heirophant and a Harridan cost? Trying to see if they are a good deal $/points wise.

Stonecrushers are based on the current carnifexes, but their carapace makes them just slightly bigger. They used to have 2 different configurations, but I don't know how they've changed with the Imperial Armour book.

It is against Forum rules to post point costs, but the hierophant is about a grand and the harridan about 700-750-ish.

The SC fex has two different weapon load-outs.

Dual Wrecker Claw is standard, and for a few points you can upgrade to one wrecker claw and a flail.

I use the assault phase plain and simple. I dont have a problem with shooty nidzilla list its a good list. Its an archetype rock, paper, scissors both you and your opponent will know how to beat you. I throw curve balls and slow balls, the tactic that is used to beat this:

Flyrant
Flyrant

Ripper Swarm
Ripper Swarm

X amount of Dakkafexex

Living Artillery or Skyblight Formation

Will have a hard time beating my list.

 CKO wrote:
I use the assault phase plain and simple. I dont have a problem with shooty nidzilla list its a good list. Its an archetype rock, paper, scissors both you and your opponent will know how to beat you. I throw curve balls and slow balls, the tactic that is used to beat this:

Flyrant
Flyrant

Ripper Swarm
Ripper Swarm

X amount of Dakkafexex

Living Artillery or Skyblight Formation

Will have a hard time beating my list.

Why not post a couple lists for review?

Mmm, and some batreps.

He doesn't have what it takes to make the army competitive enough against the top armies. However, that doesn't mean he isn't a good unit either.

Certainly doesn't. The fact that he doesn't have what it takes to make our army competitive enough against bottom tier armies it what means he isn't a good unit.

Well, any excuse for me to run the dimas will do.

Yeah. And let's stop pretending it's anything other than this.

Ran this list in an 1850 game the other day:

Swarmlord
Flyrant with Lash Whip & Bonesword and a pair a twin-linked devourers (he's built with the sword and whip and I like playing WYSIWYG)

2 X Zoanthropes

2 X 15 Hormagants
15 genestealers w/scything talons
8 genestealers w/scything talons

1 Hive Crone
10 gargoyles

1 Mawloc
2 Dakkafexen

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ran up against a Tau list...won't be able to recall it all, but it had a unit of 3 Broadsides, Riptide, Skyray, Hammerhead, a couple units of firewarriors and pathfinders, some suits...yada yada yada.

The game was randomly selected: Purge the Alien. Ugh...and here I was hoping to somehow pull out the win by securing objectives. Forcing a smile to my face, I prepared to make a good game of getting shot off the board (I try to be a pleasure to play with no matter what), but something funny happened on the way to me getting the bejeezus blown out of my bugs.

I won.

And not by just a little...it was all but decided by turn 3. Too make a long story short, I had the first turn, rushed everything at him as fast as possible (overloading the Broadsides with at least 4 target units that could be in assault as early as turn 2) and braced for what was assuredly going to be a routine of me picking my models off the table. He had an overall less than average round of hits and wounds, and basically that was it. My hormagants and genestealers were able to get into his lines and the rest of the game was just mop up duty.

Now...I'm sure he could have made some better decisions. I told him as we shook hands that I felt the result of the game wasn't a good representation of what SHOULD have happened. I was lucky that his less than average round of shooting happened in the first round rather than, say, the 5th, but I couldn't have been happier with how my "balanced, leaning towards assault heavy" force fared against the Tau gunline.

I'll most likely get tabled next time I face Tau, but knowing things like that are possible has got me back into painting my bugs rather than spending my hobby time on Blood Angel stuff while I wait on their new codex.

CKO making this split between assault and shooting is where you need to tighten your strategy up and bring it together as one, in a cohesive effort. This whole "we don't have the firepower to outshoot other armies so why bother trying" thing is really misguided, in a Mexican stand off with all units in range, we actually have so much Dakka it's insane, we outshoot Tau by a margin ignoring range penalties. Assault is a tool we must use - it can add extra damage in a turn, tie up enemy units from shooting, hold them for something else to get into range, pile in supporting assaults to win any combat. Our Dakka units have a combat advantage on practically every army except heavily assault based armies who are generally great match ups anyway due to the nature of such short ranges high power weaponry. The Tyranid design is actually a good one for the most part, however dedicated assault MCs like Harry n Dimmy do not mesh well with this. It sacrifices firepower, mobility, AND durability, for one of two big silly assault that it will likely rarely see. Doubling down on assault with him is bad. Stealers can get away with it, they sacrifice both durability and firepower but gain on mobility with Infiltrate / outflank practically securing their big assault for the second turn. Trygons back when they were good, worked because while only being equally durable as Dimmy, they had Deepstrike to put them anywhere and everywhere on the map, securing assaults. Comparing them in a vacuum and saying the Dimmy is stronger than in assault is ignoring what you are actually getting with the model, and not a fair discussion at all. As is ignoring a points value.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CKO wrote:
I use the assault phase plain and simple. I dont have a problem with shooty nidzilla list its a good list. Its an archetype rock, paper, scissors both you and your opponent will know how to beat you. I throw curve balls and slow balls, the tactic that is used to beat this:

Flyrant
Flyrant

Ripper Swarm
Ripper Swarm

X amount of Dakkafexex

Living Artillery or Skyblight Formation

Will have a hard time beating my list.

A lot of what you said here is off base, but not least of which is the part where you said your list will beat a Skyblight or Dakkafex Artillery list. These two lists are practically the hardest counter available in the game to assault based armies after Cron air. Now consider that you are playing the SLOWEST assault army in the game which incidentally, hits the least hardest in combat out of anything you could call an assault army / assault list.

Sorry, but your list will lose sooo hard against other standard Nids, it's where they excel. And I mean, you will get more victories vs Tau and Eldar, combined. And you won't see a whole lot wins vs them either, but standard Nids is THE worst possible match up in the game for assault Nids, after Flyer Spam.

I think it's time you followed my advice and went out and play tested some of your statements befor parading theory as fact. Theory is important in 40k as nothing is ever "assured", but at the moment as a self-confessed new player of Nids without a single game under your belt with them, you do not have the game sense or knowledge regarding them to do this accurately - and it shows. Not being elitist, but the fact is, your theory has massive holes in it that you would discover after merely a single game of testing it, and the way you deliver it as if it's a hard proven and tested fact results in you contributing negatively to competitive discussion.

 CKO wrote:
I use the assault phase plain and simple.

So do I. You're a fool not to use all 4 phases of the game where warranted and possible.

I dont have a problem with shooty nidzilla list its a good list. Its an archetype rock, paper, scissors both you and your opponent will know how to beat you. I throw curve balls and slow balls, the tactic that is used to beat this:

Are you just posturing now? Not willing to admit you made poor assumptions in our prior discussion? Have you learned anything?

Yes, tactics that work against one army list won't work against another army list. News at 11.
Next revelation from the new-to-Nids player?

 SHUPPET wrote:

He doesn't have what it takes to make the army competitive enough against the top armies. However, that doesn't mean he isn't a good unit either.

Certainly doesn't. The fact that he doesn't have what it takes to make our army competitive enough against bottom tier armies it what means he isn't a good unit.

Well, any excuse for me to run the dimas will do.

Yeah. And let's stop pretending it's anything other than this.

Methinks you really under-estimate the usability of Dimey.

Sure he may not be the fastest. But a fleeting Dima without any shooting means he's most likely moving 10" a turn (move + re-rollable running) and not slowed by terrain. 6W T6 is nothing to laugh at, especially when supported by shrouded vemonthrope/malanthrope cover and with Catalyst from a flyrant. Once he gets into assault range, he will kill anything that is not a land raider or a deathstar. If you are shooting at him, then you are not shooting at those flyrants. If you are shooting at those flyrants, then there is a great chance that he will make it into assault.

He is worth a try, and I not talking about just the aesthetics of the model. I am talking about the fact that he will help a tyranid army much as a wraithknight can help out an Eldar army. This guy's main purpose is for board control in a Tyranid army because he is just that much of an assault threat.

To group him as not being even competitive enough to beat bottom-tier armies? I don't know what type of kool-aid you're drinking.

 jy2 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

He doesn't have what it takes to make the army competitive enough against the top armies. However, that doesn't mean he isn't a good unit either.

Certainly doesn't. The fact that he doesn't have what it takes to make our army competitive enough against bottom tier armies it what means he isn't a good unit.

Well, any excuse for me to run the dimas will do.

Yeah. And let's stop pretending it's anything other than this.

Methinks you really under-estimate the usability of Dimey.

Sure he may not be the fastest. But a fleeting Dima without any shooting means he's most likely moving 10" a turn (move + re-rollable running) and not slowed by terrain. 6W T6 is nothing to laugh at, especially when supported by shrouded vemonthrope/malanthrope cover and with Catalyst from a flyrant. Once he gets into assault range, he will kill anything that is not a land raider or a deathstar. If you are shooting at him, then you are not shooting at those flyrants. If you are shooting at those flyrants, then there is a great chance that he will make it into assault.

He is worth a try, and I not talking about just the aesthetics of the model. I am talking about the fact that he will help a tyranid army much as a wraithknight can help out an Eldar army. This guy's main purpose is for board control in a Tyranid army because he is just that much of an assault threat.

To group him as not being even competitive enough to beat bottom-tier armies? I don't know what type of kool-aid you're drinking.

I completely agree with this. The board control that you can gain from a Dimey or two is not to be underestimated. Give him some malanthrope cover and make the magic happen. I think that jy2 brings up a great point about Maximum Threat Overload lists being the place for this guy. Grab 2-3 flyrants, a Mawloc or two, and maybe even some Genestealer squads along with a couple Dimeys. No, it won't win a top-tier tournament, but Dimey can help to make some serious target prioritization nightmares with no great answers for the opponent. Definitely something that I look forward to trying out, and not just because I definitely want to field this model.

You can keep saying it's a threat, but it doesn't make it one. The name of the build with multiple of these in it should be called "minimum threat overload".



I think I'm done with the subject though, I have nothing else to contribute, any response to this would likely be just pointing towards some of my other posts, as it's all already been said, and largely ignored. Anyone who wants to play it, feel free. The model sucks, bigger and hungrier does not equal better, just ask the Trygon and the Swarmlord. But meh the initial hype is sure to muddle peoples opinions on it. At least the model is really cool (if unimaginative) I couldn't fault anyone for wanting one of these on the shelf. He definitely is in the "fun n cool" category with Swarmy, Old One Eye, stone crushers, etc. models that are really powerful but really unreliable and overpriced, and rely LARGELY on your opponent being a bad.

The problem with DIma is the same as all of our assault units; assault kind of sucks in 7E, and they tend to be fairly slow.

BUT.... the big difference is the potential pay-off. Dima hits a unit and gets (in essence) 9 powerfist attacks at I6 (or 5?) with WS8. And once it hits, it (likely) gets a 4+ FnP roll for the rest of the game.

It *does* have an achilles heal... lack of speed and lack of invuln save. Unlike a wraithknight etc, it will have trouble doing its job by itself. But catalyst.... or Shrouded.... now it has a decent chance of making it across the board. Or at least taking a *lot* of firepower to bring it down. And it forces your opponent to act a certain way. He really *has* to devote resources to take it down right away; he can't wait a couple of turns...

And I don't understand the concept of 3-4 turns of move-run before it can get into CC. I see 2 turns of Run *max*; it should be in CC turn 2 or 3. Sure, if the enemy is willing to back their entire army into a corner... maybe longer. But if I can spend 200pts to let me control 80% of the battlefield... that is points well spent.

To be fair 7E is much more supportive of assault armies than 6E was. If assault could be viable (not in top tier play) in 6E then it surely can be in 7E.

I know that the list i usually run has the termagants shooting...and that's it.

On a different note, has anyone actually played with Crushing Claw Tyrant Guard in their lists? I've been running a Walking Tyrant with a pair of them lately just to get a feel for them and the Guard have been doing fantastic! Each one is basically the offensive capabilities of a Crushing Claw Tervigon (but with WS5!) for a third of the cost. Thus far, they have consistently out-damaged their Hive Tyrant against everything they've been thrown against (Bikers, Necrons, Wraith Constructs, Nobs) which makes me wonder if it wouldn't be a bad idea to include one or two single-model broods in a list with flyrants. A single T6 2 wound model seems a huge waste to shoot at with other T6 multi-wound models running about and their comparatively small size makes them both easy to hide them and seemingly non-threatening.

 CKO wrote:
Besides the tl devourers name another range weapon that makes our enemies jealous?

1. Bioplasmic Cannon (no Gets Hot)
2. Thorax Weapons, specifically Shreddershard Beetles and Electroshock Grubs.
3. Impaler Cannons

 jy2 wrote:
Stonecrushers are based on the current carnifexes, but their carapace makes them just slightly bigger. They used to have 2 different configurations, but I don't know how they've changed with the Imperial Armour book.

It is against Forum rules to post point costs, but the hierophant is about a grand and the harridan about 700-750-ish.

Thanks! I though i remember seeing lists with full point costs, so i didn't realize it was against the rules, sorry!

coredump wrote:
The SC fex has two different weapon load-outs.

Dual Wrecker Claw is standard, and for a few points you can upgrade to one wrecker claw and a flail.

Thanks! From what i saw, Dual Wrecker Claw is for tanks/buildings and the flail for infantry?

I've run the Dima in a game against marines and it worked pretty well! Got a couple of things wrong with the weapon load out. ( crazy amounts of rules for one unit to take note off so please forgive my mistakes!)

Check out for yourself if you like! I won't post any spoilers

http://www.40kbrawl.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/40k-brawl-1750-tyranids-vs-iron-hands.html?m=1

Spoletta wrote:
To be fair 7E is much more supportive of assault armies than 6E was. .

Really? How so?

 Wilson wrote:
I've run the Dima in a game against marines and it worked pretty well! Got a couple of things wrong with the weapon load out. ( crazy amounts of rules for one unit to take note off so please forgive my mistakes!)

Check out for yourself if you like! I won't post any spoilers

http://www.40kbrawl.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/40k-brawl-1750-tyranids-vs-iron-hands.html?m=1

Really enjoyed the variation in smashy smash monsters.