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my experience is you're often not hiding a venomthrope past turn 1 anyway, if it's even possible to do that (outside of bastions, which is another discussion). just too much mobility and LoS blocking terrain isn't always what/where we wish it was.

luke1705 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

barnowl wrote:
I think the Mal or Ven+Zoe is a lot more army dependent than some want to admit. In a vacuum for 90% of the cases the Mal is probably the better buy, especially in flyer heavy lists. I find in foot heavy lists, the Zoe role on the powers chart is going to be more important.

Barnowl, for one thing, you have an awesome username. For another, I do agree that it's not all night-and-day because you do save points and a Zoan is good - however to me, I find it more important to have zero easy first blood targets versus 2 (or just 1 if you like the durability of the Venomthrope) Can't really rely on having enough BLOS terrain for both of them. However, the more Carnifex you bring, the more important the Zoan becomes, I agree. You want them to get across the table pronto, and the Onslaught often means the difference between being able to shoot first turn versus not being able to.

For my play style, Catalyst and Onslaught can make or break the game. I think the First Blood issue also effects value. I run such large gribbly broods that they are hard to get first blood of off, and enough of midsized and MC's that in Dawn of war with even remotely decent terrain I have trouble getting all the models on the board at deployment.I don't think I can even get half the army covered under the Shroud bubble, so why would the opponent waste shots on the hard to kill ones when he has easy to kill ones in the open. Heck I expect to give up first blood, If the opponent can't pull a first blood on my list the odds of my winning the game increase about 10 fold.

This is were a Catalyst Zoe + venom starts to out weigh the single Malanthrope, or even 2 solo Zoes can provide more than either between dominion and the 3 shots at Catalyst/onslaught. This is why I end up sticking a squad in the opponents backfield to get them moving in two directions, to disrupt fire priority. Some lists have the range volume (tau) or infantry mobility (eldar) to make this stratagem less effective, but both those are just bad match ups anyway.

Frozocrone & Barnowl have pretty much nailed it (although I do think in a situation where I was running 2 venoms in the one squad I'd probably just upgrade to a Mal - it's likely more durable, saving you 5 points and possibly the points on a synapse peg).

One thing that needs to be acknowledged, is the fact that I am not arguing that the venom is more durable than the Mal, if LoS is drawn to them both. Far from it, The Venom is less than half as durable as the Malan to gunfire as well as ID'able if they choose to spend some valuable AT fire on it (a 45 point model shrugging off 2/3 shots), and those stats like do nothing to disprove anything that I'm saying. I'm merely saying that if this happens, it's made it's points back anyway all most definitely and was never a wasted purchase. Vs cover ignoring weaponry, they both die easily and those stats would be nowhere near correct, it would take I believe one Wave Serpent shooting at it to kill either of them within (a very safe) 36" firing range. Basically though, what I'm saying is you don't NEED that extra durability. A venom has the potential on its own to either make the difference or not. The extra shots that a Mope may or may NOT end up eating, are not always worth dumping the points into. They will not always trade as well as actual army units will.


Also, it's not DEPENDANT on LoS blocking terrain (although it's helpful) an Exocrine is easily big enough to block LoS. They may be able to manoeuvre to the side and get vision , but as said this screws WIH positioning and the LoS block is extendable by the 4 Carnifexes I run, and wise positioning around terrain, doesn't even have to be full LoS blocking a patch of trees can help. Look at the rules for LoS, tentacles don't count, vents don't count, tail doesn't count, the Venomthrope is actually a tiny model when it comes to drawing vision, the Malanthropes torso is much taller making this not really an option for him.

I think for a list with 4 Dakkafex and an Exocrine, Zopes far outweigh a bit of extra points sunk in to the durability of a cover support model that's already going to do its role regardless if it gets killed or not

 SHUPPET wrote:

Vs cover ignoring weaponry, they both die easily and those stats would be nowhere near correct, it would take I believe one Wave Serpent shooting at it to kill either of them within (a very safe) 36" firing range. Basically though, what I'm saying is you don't NEED that extra durability. A venom has the potential on its own to either make the difference or not.

Sorry to nitpick here, but a single Wave Serpent would have to get fairly lucky to chew through T5, 4 wounds, 2+ cover, and a 3+ armor save.
What, maximum fourteen twinlinked S6-7 shots on the 2+ cover save, plus max seven S7 ignore cover shots on the 3+? Assuming they all wound, the Mope takes four wounds on average I believe? Assuming all its shots hit and wound of course.
I notice I'm assuming a Mope gets the maximum possible cover save, so that could be adjusted.
Also, I completely agree that Zopes/Vopes and Mopes depends on the list. There is quite a bit of variation amongst competitive lists, if just for what's legal in different areas.

I've had a few drinks and can't process the maths right now - just posting to inform you that I exalted your post for calling them Mopes, Vopes & Zopes

I understand that onslaught and catalyst are amazing powers and that on a backfield zope running with dakka it is amazing. However, it is a great plan until you roll paraoxym and psychic scream...

Which seems to happen a lot.

On the $ cost of the Mope...not sure I like Mope but agree with shuppet that I hate venom for the venomthrope. If you troll Ebay you can find amazing deals. I got mine for $56 with shipping already pinned and primed.

Also for the few comments I have seen on the bastion not being fluffy. Just make your own and Tyranid it up. There are all kinds of brood nests etc that bugs use. You could create a spore for a bio titan and call it a bastion. Fluff wise the possibilities are endless. You could use the imperial one and model corrosion through painting and bits and use the imperial bastion as an overrun outpost. Be fun to have some rippers already gnawing on it.

 NightWrench wrote:
agree with shuppet that I hate venom for the venomthrope

Sorry but you if you are using Vope n Zope then you kinda have to use Mope lol

 NightWrench wrote:
Also for the few comments I have seen on the bastion not being fluffy. Just make your own and Tyranid it up. There are all kinds of brood nests etc that bugs use. You could create a spore for a bio titan and call it a bastion. Fluff wise the possibilities are endless. You could use the imperial one and model corrosion through painting and bits and use the imperial bastion as an overrun outpost. Be fun to have some rippers already gnawing on it.

I have a bastion converted from a Necron monolith sunk in my snow (my basing for all my guys) and covered in tyranid biomatter. It makes sense fluffwise to me, at least to my Nids.

 NightWrench wrote:
I understand that onslaught and catalyst are amazing powers and that on a backfield zope running with dakka it is amazing. However, it is a great plan until you roll paraoxym and psychic scream...

Which seems to happen a lot.

On the $ cost of the Mope...not sure I like Mope but agree with shuppet that I hate venom for the venomthrope. If you troll Ebay you can find amazing deals. I got mine for $56 with shipping already pinned and primed.

Also for the few comments I have seen on the bastion not being fluffy. Just make your own and Tyranid it up. There are all kinds of brood nests etc that bugs use. You could create a spore for a bio titan and call it a bastion. Fluff wise the possibilities are endless. You could use the imperial one and model corrosion through painting and bits and use the imperial bastion as an overrun outpost. Be fun to have some rippers already gnawing on it.

I find both those powers and Horror to be quite useful. Paraoxym for that big nasty skyfire unit hunting my flyrant? Yes, please! Drop Pod marines got eh drop on me? I'll have that Psychic Scream thank you. Hormigaunts need to charge that high volume fire blob? One Horror to go please. The longer this threads goes on the easier it is becoming to tell horde players vs nidzilla/FMC players by the opinions and tactics posted. Since the codex first dropped I have come to find all the 'nid powers to be more useful than I originally expected. Only Warp Lance is still a bit iffy for me do to all the dice rolls needed to pull it off.

barnowl wrote:

 NightWrench wrote:
I understand that onslaught and catalyst are amazing powers and that on a backfield zope running with dakka it is amazing. However, it is a great plan until you roll paraoxym and psychic scream...

Which seems to happen a lot.

On the $ cost of the Mope...not sure I like Mope but agree with shuppet that I hate venom for the venomthrope. If you troll Ebay you can find amazing deals. I got mine for $56 with shipping already pinned and primed.

Also for the few comments I have seen on the bastion not being fluffy. Just make your own and Tyranid it up. There are all kinds of brood nests etc that bugs use. You could create a spore for a bio titan and call it a bastion. Fluff wise the possibilities are endless. You could use the imperial one and model corrosion through painting and bits and use the imperial bastion as an overrun outpost. Be fun to have some rippers already gnawing on it.

I find both those powers and Horror to be quite useful. Paraoxym for that big nasty skyfire unit hunting my flyrant? Yes, please! Drop Pod marines got eh drop on me? I'll have that Psychic Scream thank you. Hormigaunts need to charge that high volume fire blob? One Horror to go please. The longer this threads goes on the easier it is becoming to tell horde players vs nidzilla/FMC players by the opinions and tactics posted. Since the codex first dropped I have come to find all the 'nid powers to be more useful than I originally expected. Only Warp Lance is still a bit iffy for me do to all the dice rolls needed to pull it off.

I'd like to see a poll of who runs what ;

Horde or Nidzilla.

I'd like to see horde defined as well then...because I don't consider myself a horde unless I have at least 90 bodies.

EDIT: Double post

I find that on a Zope, Psychic Scream is guaranteed to be useless, Catalyst and Onslaught are guaranteed to be useful. Paroxysm I'm never too disappointed tho roll, the Horror is very meh but has made a big difference some times. Psychic Scream can be useful, if you also roll MoA, go second,make a judgement call based on their deployment positioning, risk outflanking the Zoey, and just maybe pull off a few wounds.mif ofc your opponent is playing Tau.

Nah, Psychic scream is useless on Zopes

barnowl wrote:

 NightWrench wrote:
I understand that onslaught and catalyst are amazing powers and that on a backfield zope running with dakka it is amazing. However, it is a great plan until you roll paraoxym and psychic scream...

Which seems to happen a lot.

On the $ cost of the Mope...not sure I like Mope but agree with shuppet that I hate venom for the venomthrope. If you troll Ebay you can find amazing deals. I got mine for $56 with shipping already pinned and primed.

Also for the few comments I have seen on the bastion not being fluffy. Just make your own and Tyranid it up. There are all kinds of brood nests etc that bugs use. You could create a spore for a bio titan and call it a bastion. Fluff wise the possibilities are endless. You could use the imperial one and model corrosion through painting and bits and use the imperial bastion as an overrun outpost. Be fun to have some rippers already gnawing on it.

I find both those powers and Horror to be quite useful. Paraoxym for that big nasty skyfire unit hunting my flyrant? Yes, please! Drop Pod marines got eh drop on me? I'll have that Psychic Scream thank you. Hormigaunts need to charge that high volume fire blob? One Horror to go please. The longer this threads goes on the easier it is becoming to tell horde players vs nidzilla/FMC players by the opinions and tactics posted. Since the codex first dropped I have come to find all the 'nid powers to be more useful than I originally expected. Only Warp Lance is still a bit iffy for me do to all the dice rolls needed to pull it off.

I have found each of them useful as well. I am an TMC player have been for years. Ever since my Carnifex in 2nd edition made 22 straight armor/inv saves vs. Eldar and basically wrecked the entire army. That is one reason I like the Mope it just fits into my TMC style.
I do like psychic scream and paroxsm I just find a lot of my opponents seem to snap shot at the FMC no matter what and that power doesn't help as much. Though it is a lot of fun to cast on other flyers.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 NightWrench wrote:
agree with shuppet that I hate venom for the venomthrope

Sorry but you if you are using Vope n Zope then you kinda have to use Mope lol

I can't argue with that logic

On a side note has anyone tried the bioblast node? It is a huge point sink I know with it being a min of about 720 points or so.

Who plays Swarm? Better poll would be Nidzilla / Tyradactyl since they are the two big ones

Sorry to throw this in, but I was wondering if anyone has done the math comparison between T-fex and Dakkafexen?

Specifically, I'm looking for 1 T-fex w/Acid spray + E. grubs and 2 Dakkafexen. If possibly, I was hoping the person who'd do this could include info like PPW (points per wound), Damage output to T4, T5, and T6, while also showing the durability against S6-8 shooting AND AP 2-4 shooting.

For some reason my mind isn't working today and I can't fathom how to set this up in excel....

Obviously, to do this we'd have to make assumptions so would it be absurd to say that Acid spray can hit 5 models and E. grubs can hit 4?

If this has (or something similar to it) has already been done, can someone refer me to it?

Thanks!

Tyradactyl <3

 SHUPPET wrote:
Pho plays Swarm? Better poll would be Nidzilla / Tyradactyl since they are the two big ones

Is Nidzilladactyl an option? I've been pondering 2 Flyrants, 2 Harpies, as many dakkafexes as I can fit, with Rippers for troops (or genestealers... just for out of synapse objective holders).

 SHUPPET wrote:
I find that on a Zope, Psychic Scream is guaranteed to be useless, Catalyst and Onslaught are guaranteed to be useful. Paroxysm I'm never too disappointed tho roll, the Horror is very meh but has made a big difference some times. Psychic Scream can be useful, if you also roll MoA, go second,make a judgement call based on their deployment positioning, risk outflanking the Zoey, and just maybe pull off a few wounds.mif ofc your opponent is playing Tau.

Nah, Psychic scream is useless on Zopes

Not useless, but definitely not an ideal choice. Mostly I have found it helpful against DS'er and armys that do a large bulk scout/Infiltrate move.

Someone else was running 2 Flyrants with multiple crones.....but I think that the tactical approaches to Skyblight are pretty similar to most Nidzilla builds unless they're LAN with a ton of Dakkafexes (for the record, I do need to get 2 more screamer killer fexes to run that apoc formation....SO BROKEN)

A thought crossed my mind though - I don't want to diverge this thread too much, or start a new/different one, but it might be worthwhile for a specific purpose. Instead of saying what general builds we run, why not be specific? Why not post our actual lists, maybe a little blurb about how we run it or something, and we can talk about each other's lists. I was thinking it could be like a Tyranid Army list mega-thread (likely in the army list section lol). I know many of us have posted a list at one time or another (and often in this very thread lol) but it might be nice to get them condensed, to see what everyone runs, and also to talk about the lists in said thread. We could probably even start a hyperlink table of contents in the first post. Wouldn't be hard to organize by build and/or points limit either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and also, in case anyone was unsure, I am unashamedly Nidzilla. Basically I never left fourth edition. I have a saying when I play Apocalypse - if I'm spending less than 1,000 points per model, I'm doing it wrong. Sadly it works out too haha. I can bring a Hierophant, a Harridan, Ang'grath and a beautiful Ork Gargant that I sometimes use as a ridiculously large Stompa and sometimes just use some home-brewed rules to make him more in line with what he actually looks like (and therefore 1,250 points. The rules are so bad though lol). But it's 4 dudes at 4,000 points and I never apologize for it, although I do often give out a handicap (beyond the couple hundred that I'm short) because Ang'grath is just stupid. I mean, really really stupid good.

You might be interested in the battle reports that jy2 posts in the apropriate forum. plenty of useful knowledge and game experience to be had from those.

luke1705 wrote:
Someone else was running 2 Flyrants with multiple crones.....but I think that the tactical approaches to Skyblight are pretty similar to most Nidzilla builds unless they're LAN with a ton of Dakkafexes (for the record, I do need to get 2 more screamer killer fexes to run that apoc formation....SO BROKEN)

A thought crossed my mind though - I don't want to diverge this thread too much, or start a new/different one, but it might be worthwhile for a specific purpose. Instead of saying what general builds we run, why not be specific? Why not post our actual lists, maybe a little blurb about how we run it or something, and we can talk about each other's lists. I was thinking it could be like a Tyranid Army list mega-thread (likely in the army list section lol). I know many of us have posted a list at one time or another (and often in this very thread lol) but it might be nice to get them condensed, to see what everyone runs, and also to talk about the lists in said thread. We could probably even start a hyperlink table of contents in the first post. Wouldn't be hard to organize by build and/or points limit either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and also, in case anyone was unsure, I am unashamedly Nidzilla. Basically I never left fourth edition. I have a saying when I play Apocalypse - if I'm spending less than 1,000 points per model, I'm doing it wrong. Sadly it works out too haha. I can bring a Hierophant, a Harridan, Ang'grath and a beautiful Ork Gargant that I sometimes use as a ridiculously large Stompa and sometimes just use some home-brewed rules to make him more in line with what he actually looks like (and therefore 1,250 points. The rules are so bad though lol). But it's 4 dudes at 4,000 points and I never apologize for it, although I do often give out a handicap (beyond the couple hundred that I'm short) because Ang'grath is just stupid. I mean, really really stupid good.

I never get tired of this, but this is my collection from an Apoc game I had back in 5th:





vs



with 3 Warhounds, 2 Reavers and 1 Warlord Titan!


BTW, battle report can be found here.

roxor08 wrote:
Sorry to throw this in, but I was wondering if anyone has done the math comparison between T-fex and Dakkafexen?

Spoiler:

Specifically, I'm looking for 1 T-fex w/Acid spray + E. grubs and 2 Dakkafexen. If possibly, I was hoping the person who'd do this could include info like PPW (points per wound), Damage output to T4, T5, and T6, while also showing the durability against S6-8 shooting AND AP 2-4 shooting.

For some reason my mind isn't working today and I can't fathom how to set this up in excel....

Obviously, to do this we'd have to make assumptions so would it be absurd to say that Acid spray can hit 5 models and E. grubs can hit 4?

If this has (or something similar to it) has already been done, can someone refer me to it?

Thanks!

Here is the math you requested, but I submit that it isn't all that meaningful because usually tyranid MC's are taking cover saves against low AP weapons, and your number for the models hit by the templates are exceptionally high in my opinion. If I can pull that many hits off in an entire game with a Tfex it is an accomplishment. I think 2.25 and 0.75 would be a more representative number of hits.

# Of wounds caused against selected toughness values
Unit Weapon Hits T4 T5 T6 T7 T8 T9 Dakkafex 2Dev 9.0 7.5 6.0 4.5 3.0 1.5 1.5 Tfex AS 5.0 4.2 3.3 2.5 1.7 0.8 0.8 EG 4.0 2.7 2.0 1.3 0.7 0.7 - SS 2.0 1.3 1.0 0.7 0.3 0.3 - Tot 6.8 5.3 3.8 2.3 1.5 0.8
# Of hits of various Strength and AP to kill
Unit S6AP2 S6AP3 S6AP4 S7AP2 S7AP3 S7AP4 S8AP2 S8AP3 S8AP4 Dakkafex 8 8 10 6 6 10 5 5 6 Tfex 12 18 18 9 14 14 7 11 11

@ jy2 that looks insane. Also I miss seeing your apple "spore pod" in your reports.

Polkadragon wrote:

Polkadragon wrote:



Update to this: apparently the tournament does allow Forge World, but no superheavies or gargantuans from FW, so the Hierodule is out :(

the good news is, this gives me 565 points to spend, the bad news is, there really is no decent replacement for the Hierodule long distance firepower :(
So, next try:

Spoiler:

--CAD
Hive Tyrant: twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; wings; electroshock grubs
Hive Tyrant: twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; wings; electroshock grubs

3 Ripper Swarms: Deep Strike
3 Ripper Swarms: Deep Strike

1 Malanthrope
3 Hive Guard

Hive Crone
15 Gargoyles

Mawloc
Mawloc

-- Living artillery
3 Tyranid Warriors: barbed strangler

3 Biovores
Exocrine

Comes to 1735 points currently, also plays a bit different I guess. I'm not sure about the Gargoyles in this list though, might it be worth it to replace them with some Shrikes to hunt Wraithknights and such?

All opinions welcome!

Would this list be better? Shrikes give me some Riptide and Wraithknights killing...

Spoiler:

-- CAD
Hive Tyrant: twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; wings; electroshock grubs
Hive Tyrant: twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; wings; electroshock grubs

3 Ripper Swarms: Deep Strike
3 Ripper Swarms: Deep Strike

1 Malanthrope

Hive Crone
6 Tyranid Shrikes: 6× scything talons; 2× lash whip and bonesword; toxin sacs; flesh hooks

Mawloc
Mawloc

-- Living Artillery
3 Tyranid Warriors: barbed strangler
3 Biovores
Exocrine

It wouldn't really be better. Rather, it'll just be different. Both lists have its strengths and weaknesses. It really depends on what type of armies/units you normally face more in your meta. Now with that said, I like your list #2. The shrikes help to take some of the pressure off of your flyrants better than the gargoyles or hive guards (assuming you play aggressively with them and push them up the table). It also gives your army a little more teeth against other assault armies. Personally, I'd prefer rending claws over both toxin sacs and BS+LW so that they are a threat to vehicles as well, but then again, maybe I don't play against as much wraithknights as you do.

I remember that batrep. Sweet stuff. Also, those Exocrines are awesome. As is what I believe is a Doom of Malantai conversion all the way on the left in the middle? RIP. I do wish that GW (or forge world) would get off their butts and release a dominatrix or something. Or just give me a Tomb Stalker from that Medusa V campaign.

 Eldarain wrote:
@ jy2 that looks insane. Also I miss seeing your apple "spore pod" in your reports.

Yeah, but I long for the days of the large Apoc games once again. That battle was basically my very last Apoc game. Haven't yet played the new Apoc ever since it came out.

I am just missing "spore pods" in general.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

luke1705 wrote:
I remember that batrep. Sweet stuff. Also, those Exocrines are awesome. As is what I believe is a Doom of Malantai conversion all the way on the left in the middle? RIP. I do wish that GW (or forge world) would get off their butts and release a dominatrix or something. Or just give me a Tomb Stalker from that Medusa V campaign.

The doom is on the lower right corner of the first picture, right next to the bell pepper "spore pod".

luke1705 wrote:
Someone else was running 2 Flyrants with multiple crones.....but I think that the tactical approaches to Skyblight are pretty similar to most Nidzilla builds unless they're LAN with a ton of Dakkafexes (for the record, I do need to get 2 more screamer killer fexes to run that apoc formation....SO BROKEN)

A thought crossed my mind though - I don't want to diverge this thread too much, or start a new/different one, but it might be worthwhile for a specific purpose. Instead of saying what general builds we run, why not be specific? Why not post our actual lists,.

I generally run 1 of 3 TAC lists, but I only have a few opponents that can deal with them so most of my games are much less powerful lists.

TAC list #1 < LAN



TAC list #2 < Barbie


TAC list #3 < Ally

roxor08 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I saw a reference to jy2's coined strategy term "Positional Dominance" from an earlier page. The individual went on to describe that the main goal of this strategy is to control the corners and attack from the sides...I thought it was more: Take the middle and force your opponent to react to you.

Could you explain this strategy another time jy2?

Sure thing, buddy!

Basically, Positional Dominance is my philosophy that if you can control the Movement phase, then you've got the advantage in objectives-based scenarios. Basically, if you can get onto the objectives first, then you have the advantage because you've already got the objectives and it is up to your opponent to take it back from you. This usually requires 2 key characteristics:

1. Mobility. You need to have a mobile army.

2. Aggressive play. Normally, you need to play more aggressively and push your army forwards and onto the objectives (and beyond). Dare your opponent to move towards "your" objectives and thus, towards your army.

One of the main strategies of Positional Dominance is board control. If you can control the board - and thusly control the movement of your opponent - then you can set yourself up favorably position-wise with regards to the objectives. So as your army advances, your opponent has to retreat (or at the very least, you stop them from advancing). Thus, even if you take heavy, heavy fire, come Turn 5, you are already on the objectives and now your opponent has to make his way towards the objectives. So he could be decimating your army with his shooting, but if he can't reach the objectives in time, then you've got him.

However, Tyranids are not the only army that can control the board. Other armies can do it, and some can do it even better than our bugs. Armies like multiple Imperial Knights, deathstar armies (beaststar, seer council, centurionstar, Draigowing, etc.), more assault-oriented armies (daemons, orks, Mindshackle Necrons), super-fast armies (Necron flyer-spam, Daemon FMC-spam, mechdar/jetbike Eldar, biker armies, etc.) and drop pod armies can potentially control the board better than our bugs. Against these types of armies, you have to resort to other means of controlling the Movement phase. Against these types of armies, you have to use whatever tool is available to you, including a mostly reserves army, outflanking, trying to lead your opponents away from the objectives and just trying to kill off their fast objective-grabbers.

For example, I took Skyblight to a tournament and in my very 1st game, had to play against a drop pod Marine army with drop pods. Now I knew that my opponent could just drop on the objectives and I'd then have a hard trying to get rid of 70+ marines (with Marneus Calgar) + drop pods. So my strategy going into the game was to disdirect him. I deployed my bastion, venomthrope, gargoyles and 1 flyrant in one of the corners and then put my objectives far away from it. So Turn 1, my opponent took the bait and dropped 30 marines there (of which 20 were the very dangerous sternguards). Yes, he did kill my flyrant, but on my next turn (when my reserves came in), I just ignored his 30 marines who were stuck out in the middle of nowhere. Thus, instead of having to deal with his entire army, I gave up a flyrant so that I only had to deal with about half of his army. So for the rest of the game, his 30 marines were running towards where the action was but they were never involved in the battle. I was the only one who managed to pull out a draw against my opponent, who won all of his other games and finished 2nd Overall at the BAO.

So normally, Positional Dominance entails board control. However, armies have changed throughout the editions and sometimes, you just can't control the board against these types of armies. In that case, you're going to have to get a little more creative with how you can control the board and in many cases, you're going to have to rely a lot more on finesse rather than on just brute force run-up-the-middle type of board control.

barnowl wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I find that on a Zope, Psychic Scream is guaranteed to be useless, Catalyst and Onslaught are guaranteed to be useful. Paroxysm I'm never too disappointed tho roll, the Horror is very meh but has made a big difference some times. Psychic Scream can be useful, if you also roll MoA, go second,make a judgement call based on their deployment positioning, risk outflanking the Zoey, and just maybe pull off a few wounds.mif ofc your opponent is playing Tau.

Nah, Psychic scream is useless on Zopes

Not useless, but definitely not an ideal choice. Mostly I have found it helpful against DS'er and armys that do a large bulk scout/Infiltrate move.

This is true. Although we as an army are pretty much built to wreck close range DS with everything - but at least it's a useable power when this happens I guess!

rigeld2 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Pho plays Swarm? Better poll would be Nidzilla / Tyradactyl since they are the two big ones

Is Nidzilladactyl an option? I've been pondering 2 Flyrants, 2 Harpies, as many dakkafexes as I can fit, with Rippers for troops (or genestealers... just for out of synapse objective holders).

Yeah to be honest the currently popular 4 FMC + LAN or Dakkafexes or Mawlocs build is probably a hybrid of the two, especially compared to last editions popular version of Tyradactyl which was Skyblight + more FMCs, that was a really focused airborne list, current is more using Dual CAD to take advantage of as many Flyrants as possible seeing as they are so badass and still trying to include a little bit more balance with the rest of the points pushed into specific models for a role, rather than just spamming more flyers. There definitely should be a couple off hybrid options if a poll does go up.

tag8833 wrote:

I generally run 1 of 3 TAC lists, but I only have a few opponents that can deal with them so most of my games are much less powerful lists.

TAC list #1 < LAN

Spoiler:

CAD
Tyrant (2 TL-Devourers, Wings, E.Grubs)
Tyrant (2 TL-Devourers, Wings, E.Grubs)

Malanthrope
Malanthrope

10 Hormagants
10 Hormagants

20 Gargoyles
Crone
Crone

Carnifex (2 TL-Devourers)

Living Artillery Node
3 Warriors (BS)
Exocrine
3 Biovores

Void Shield Generator (3 Void Shields, 3 Barricades)

TAC list #2 < Barbie

Spoiler:

CAD
Tyrant (2 TL-Devourers, Wings, E.Grubs)
Tyrant (2 TL-Devourers, Wings, E.Grubs)

Malanthrope
Malanthrope

11 Hormagants
11 Hormagants

20 Gargoyles

Barbed Heirodule

Ally
Tyrant (2 TL-Devourers, Wings, E.Grubs)

3 Rippers (DS)

Void Shield Generator (3 Void Shields, 2 Barricades)

TAC list #3 < Ally

Spoiler:

CAD
Tyrant (2 TL-Devourers, Wings, E.Grubs)
Tyrant (2 TL-Devourers, Wings, E.Grubs)

Malanthrope
Malanthrope

11 Hormagants
10 Hormagants

20 Gargoyles
Crone
Crone

Carnifex (2 TL-Devourers)
Mawloc

Ally
Tyrant (2 TL-Devourers, Wings, E.Grubs)

3 Rippers (DS)

Void Shield Generator (2 Void Shields, 2 Barricades)

I see you like your void shield generators lol...I'm more of a bastion man myself but I definitely see the merit. I really like your list #2, but I'm curious to know why you run the second Malanthrope. You don't find it redundant?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For reference, my 3 favorite lists at the moment:

1) Skyblight




2) Quad Flyrant



3) Shooty Nids



As with tag, I find that some of these lists aren't too nice for my local meta, so I don't run them as often as I might like. Skyblight in particular gets a lot of groans. No one seems to know what as is. I remember when my friend started playing Necrons and he said, "I don't want to get more than 1 Night Scythe. It would feel mean". But I do take some pride in playing more hardcore lists every now and again so that people can elevate their game a bit. Thankfully, I'm not the only one who wants to be tested every once in a while