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I think cincy thinks just the opposite - that Wrath of Kings has the potential to be the first "good" PVS Kickstarter...

...unless you really mean the Ugly Duckling/Beautiful Swan thing, in which case...yes?

 Alpharius wrote:
I think cincy thinks just the opposite - that Wrath of Kings has the potential to be the first "good" PVS Kickstarter...

...unless you really mean the Ugly Duckling/Beautiful Swan thing, in which case...yes?

I don't believe in +1's so I left you this

 basement.dweller wrote:
You mean Wrath of Kings has the potential to be Wrath of ugly Ducklings? If so I want some kinky fat ladies so I can paint their pasties in the official Restic Knights banner colour of bandaid.

I'm pretty confident Wrath of Kings is going to be far and away the best example of the material we've seen because the proper money has been spent to do it correctly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And if it comes to it, I'm prepared to eat crow, too

I am all for it if it's good - I was amongst the people that kept screaming about more information on the material when they were kickstarting and all we got was videos of people holding the models and saying "yeah they are nice" after being asked the very neutral question "they are great aren't they?" So I took my Restic Knight stance before I knew it was a thing and vowed to never pledge on restic unseen.

I sulked quite a bit and was very close to succumbing to the shinies... but I didn't. Waiting on the verdict
.

Fingers crossed on it Cincy.

I too was an addict of the Restic.

First came Sedition Wars. And I was taken in heavily. And while I do love some of the models and the Samaritans clean well, the organics, as mentioned are the stuff of nightmares. This doesn't include the dreaded second character wave.

After the Sedition Wars my ardor for Kickstarter waned. I admit then to seeing Wrath of Kings. The models, seemingly so beautiful, called to me. The initial campaign and 2 survey's openings later stands me heavily invested in this. Partially on Cincy's word. Partially on product shown. My hopes of restic ride on this.

That said, I initially went in rather heavy on Deadzone. But common sense reached out her hand and cradled me to her chest. I only went in for hard plastic scenery. Upon seeing the castings people received there was much rejoicing. My terrain is fabulous and there are no mold lines for me to clean. I cry out and bow my head to the hand of common sense for she saved me this day.

I have learned the hard way of the evils of restic. My last hope lies with Wrath of Kings. And even then I shall avoid in the future purchasing Restic from any other manufacturer should WoK answer my dreams. From this day forth the only answer is HIPS.

For this Games Workshop, Dream Forge, Kingdom Death, and Tablescape have my support.

WoK seems to have captured great detail.

But the big question is how well does it clean up?

Don't want to clean up 50 some models if they take as long as sedition wars. Ugggggggggggggggggh.

Mine eyes! ARRRGGGHHH! what have I stepped into?! I thought the mold lines I left in were bad...

My friends, I name is Gymnogyps and I am a Restic Knight.

I was a sucker. I had purchased many beautiful McVey resins, and seeing his name, I went in big for Sedition Wars.

The wall of shame in the back corner of my basement is full of his work.

Wave one was killed for me by the amount of work needed to get the minis tabletop appropriate, combined with incomprehensible rules.

I'd have worked through it, but my heart broke with my fanservice minis. I was a sucker for the BSG and Serenity models, and the shrinkage/complete lack of viability of these fine, truescale minis shattered me. The problem being, I bought based on the McVey name and did not get the implied quality.

Restic is not suitable to current, conventional methods. Do I think it can work, eventually? Yes. But it appears it requires a non-linear adjustment formula, i.e. skinny stuff shrinks more than thick stuff, so molds must compensate.

Its gonna be hard. Is it doable? Yes, but it needs to be reduced to a pre-programmed ratio formula for the cmms to sculpt the molds. Not necessarily easy to do. They'd have to figure out the shrinkage rate per surface area/volume. Yeah. That's gonna require resources to figure out, not cutrate kickstarters.

I have not backed a Restic mini kickstarter since, and will not back any until they figure out what the feth they are doing. I'm not willing to finance R&D via kickstarter, where there is zero accountability for rewards that don't meet quality, since the only contract is reward yes/no.

As for PP. Gah. Convergence was the final nail in the coffin. I lost all interest after seeing those minis, for all my factions. PP is increasing prices horribly for PVC to metals level. I would rather have metal at that price, thanks.

Please, my brothers and sisters, help me remember that the vapid empty promises of kickstarter are nothing but sales pitches. The temptation keeps perking its head, and I have to remember the SW wall... I need your support!

I currently own over 200 restic Mantic Basileans. All unassembled, with the mould lines half-heartedly removed on a dozen angels, a few knights cleaned up here and there, etc... after receiving them last year. The motivation is not exactly there.

I estimate 100 hours total just to clean and assemble the lot.

Then another 100 hours to paint.

This is the problem with restic, a model should never take as long to clean and assemble as it does to paint. I like painting. Cleaning, bending and assembling... feth no. Stabby with the knive, inhaly with the superglue. No fun.

Cautiously awaiting the 110+ pre-assembled minis from the DBX Kickstarter in "neo-restic". It's like restic, but rad-wicked-cool according to the marketing.

For once I made a smart decision and picked a team cast in clear plastic to play so even if the rest of it sleeps in the packaging for an indefinite amount of time, I will get some use out of it.

Oh and there's wave 2 deadzone (more restic) next month, and Mars Attacks (first neo-restic I'll have besides Loka) the month after.

I have to say a few words in favour of neo-restic... I did manage to paint 36 Loka minis in one week. Didn't bother priming them either!

Mantic has made 'neo-restic' a 'thing' then?

Ugh.

Most of the restic I received from Mantic has found its way to the trash heap or been given away. I've kept the deadzone stuff in the vain hope that I'll actually get around to it someday.

 Alpharius wrote:
Mantic has made 'neo-restic' a 'thing' then?

Ugh.

If someone can actually crack the code on the material and the various mixes and resulting characteristics and remove the actual issues with the end product for 28mm miniatures, then I'm all for them giving it a go.

I think it's something they should not do on the dime of prepaying kickstarter backers though.

And if someone wants to give Mantic money in the hopes that "this time it will be different" after having already gotten the previous kickstarted products, I don't know what to say.

 frozenwastes wrote:


And if someone wants to give Mantic money in the hopes that "this time it will be different" after having already gotten the previous kickstarted products, I don't know what to say.

That is their business model and it seems to work as people still back their KS. Basically make a sub-standard product, lie about it and then say 'sorry, next time it will be better!'

Well, I don't think DBX met expectations in terms of a 'final pledge total', maybe?

So maybe people are starting to vote with their wallets, even if only a little bit?

DBX still made quite a bit, but a lot less than DBO, right?

Actually for an expansion, it did amazingly compared to the original game. $728K for the original and $575K for the expansion.

Compared to how Zombicide continues to build on itself?

But you're probably right - and that's a lot of lessons not learned there, maybe!

I think that's because they were throwing a literal gakton of free models at people. I almost backed it and I know better. The only reason I backed Deadzone after the KoW debacle is because it was cleverly kickstarted before I received the most egregious violators of resticicity. Never again. Mantic will never see another dime from me and I'm actively campaigning against them in the local group. Friends don't let friends buy Mantic Restic.

I am not a restic knight. I am a metal snob (a very smug metal snob right now). But as a commission painter I have been afflicted with this PVC and I can say that yes, mold lines were a right painful issue and lead me to underestimate my estimate. But I persevered and scrapped and filed and the end result was pretty bloody good - here's some deadzone minis I rehabilitated: http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/616521-.html?m=2 and http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/601214-.html?m=2

So you know what to do - send your restic to me with a big wad of cash and I'll sort em right out!

My Sedition Wars stuff looked so bad to my experienced eye that I have done nothing more than open the main box. I haven't opened a single baggie, as I can fully gauge the extent of the mould lines and what it will take to deal with them through the plastic.

Pewter and HIPS all the way for me. I would rather clean and assemble ten pewter models than one restic model. It is now up there with Finecast for me. So far the only restic I will willingly buy from this point is the Forgefather warband from Deadzone. Because it will allow me to play Squats again, and would really only
be a single squad, a support weapon, maybe a bike or two, and an Iron Anscestor in restic, because of the HIPS exo-armor. Less than twenty models in restic is doable if it's for Squats. But only Squats.

"Yea, as I walk through the valley of the thumb-cuts of death, I shall fear no material: for the art is within me; pin rods and thy scalpel they comfort me."

Having survived Sedition wars, I feel I have earned a stripe or badge, fulling convincing me I can survive any modeling project. I CALL UPON THEE, OLD METAL GALRAUCH. I CHALLENGE YOU, HELLCANNON!

Now that I fear no miniature, I fear I have been allured and tempted by Drakerys!

Perhaps.. if I only buy the large elementals? If I eschew the elves for the elemental boxes! Do we know that it will be as bad as it's predecessors?

Last month I took on a painting commission for a friend, several Privateer Press Convergence Vectors.

I will never, ever do that again. God those models were awful castings.

I don't mind mold lines, that's perfectly normal, but when you get mold lines that are almost .5mm thick and there is a shift in the main body that shift the two parts by almost 1mm it's almost impossible to fix properly.

The legs were all warped. I tried to use the hot water trick but they just bent back out of shape after a few hours.

There's also this odd "squishing" on most of the parts, the heavy and light Vectors. Almost like too much pressure was put on the mold and the cavities were compressed. There's no way I could fix that.

For now, I'm staying away from restic/PVC models. It's just not worth the trouble.

Ironically, I can't do battle with my Deadzone Marauders tonight because I have a large cut on my "knifing" thumb (that's the one that normally gets stuck by the blade) where I was being a bit laissez-faire with a block of Jarlsberg earlier.

If I can't handle cheese, I am a long way from being competent enough to take on restic. :(

Lol at Mantic's Basileans.

Mantic had a golden opportunity to be the top dog of large scale fantasy wargames and blew it. Mantic Basileans are a prime example.

 Baragash wrote:
If I can't handle cheese, I am a long way from being competent enough to take on restic. :(

^ Butternut squash always gets me. We need sharper knives, or tiny lasers.

 weetyskemian44 wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
If I can't handle cheese, I am a long way from being competent enough to take on restic. :(

^ Butternut squash always gets me. We need sharper knives, or tiny lasers.

Restic correction CNC laser? Sounds great. Just put the crappy Restic model in the machine and get out of it what the manufacturer would have made had they actually given a damn about quality.

Im guilty too. I think...

My wallet saved me from deeper crimes at the end, and i only got Bones and Deadzone in my profile. At least i managed to not buy anymore stuff, besides my desire to do so. (lies, i went into deadzone wave-2, i NEED those forge fathers).

So my brothers, may i have to honour and be a Restic Squire?

In the sake of our quest, some brother can share their techniques they use to deal with our horrid enemy? Right now i only fight with the hobby knife and sandpaper...

 weetyskemian44 wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
If I can't handle cheese, I am a long way from being competent enough to take on restic. :(

^ Butternut squash always gets me. We need sharper knives, or tiny lasers.

Try microwaving it for 5 minutes or so first. Works for us.

This thread is starting to look like a big list to me. A list of models I will avoid at most costs of getting.

Anyone know where I could get some old metal trenchers?

I'd check Barter Town; lots of people probably have some floating around from the old days. I have 2-3 from a blister I picked up on a whim many years ago.

Thanks for the testimonials Hulksmash, Gymnogyps, Scarletsquig, and The Dwarf Wolf.

Regarding these:

 weetyskemian44 wrote:
But as a commission painter I have been afflicted with this PVC and I can say that yes, mold lines were a right painful issue and lead me to underestimate my estimate.

...

So you know what to do - send your restic to me with a big wad of cash and I'll sort em right out!

 prplehippo wrote:
Last month I took on a painting commission for a friend, several Privateer Press Convergence Vectors.

I will never, ever do that again. God those models were awful castings.

I don't mind mold lines, that's perfectly normal, but when you get mold lines that are almost .5mm thick and there is a shift in the main body that shift the two parts by almost 1mm it's almost impossible to fix properly.

I am sensing a trend: foist the impossible-to-deal-with minis off on your commission painter!

For shame, brothers... for shame.