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 Dryaktylus wrote:

Azreal13 wrote:
Why shouldn't they? Why would they still need to be all of those things?

To be Squats and not something out of nowhere? Without some runes their vehicles look just Imperial. And even less 'High-Tech'.

As you rightly pointed out, Orks style has changed and evolved, while retaining an Orkish essence, my contention is why couldn't Squats?

EDIT
Weirdly, this popped up on my Facebook feed this evening, making no pretensions about being anything other than a "what if" but I think the artist has nailed the vibe exactly

Azreal13 wrote:Again "I don't think these things should be a faction because I don't think they should be a faction." You'd prefer more Space Marines? Writing things off because they'd be "mediocre and boring" when they don't even exist is utterly asinine.

You wanted to bring back Squats. Now you say you want something utterly different. Non-Squats, Neo-Squats. Whatever.

And of course I want more Space Marines, that's why I mentioned several other things GW should do.

And well, your whole argument is, basically, "Squats should be an army because I think Squats should be an army, but it shouldn't be a Squat army, because I want something different to a Squat army, so bring back the Squats".

Well, back to the Sisters. I hope we agree that they should be an army (with the Ecclesiarchy).

Yes, I agree Sisters should be an army, but I also agree with what Jes Goodwin apparently said, which is they'll be redone when they can be done right. This is what prompted the Squats thought, in that now could be the right time for them, as the rules and kits are now a reality that could accommodate them in the game in a way they simply couldn't before, and allow for a different playstyle from the currently established factions.

Your objections seem to be based firmly in what they were, rather in what they could be, I direct you to the Necrons, and more especially the Dark Eldar as examples of how an army's aesthetic and character can change between Codex updates, there isn't even the legacy of an existing codex for people to get upset about in this case.

Of course, Squats should be short, probably have the Rune thing and use large amounts of big shooty stuff, just like Sisters should be women wearing power armour with a heavy religious motif, but to write off anything as massively out of date as either faction based on what they were, when it is clear that a substantial update would have to revise and expand on that history substantially is daft.

But, it won't happen for Squats (unless someone important from GW is reading and agrees with me) so the point is moot.

Probably not happening for SoB anytime soon either to be fair.

After the debacle that was the Chapter House Lawsuit, I think the greatest barrier to Squats/Demiurg coming back to 40K is Mantic's Forge Fathers



I think the biggest obstacle to getting plastic Sisters is GW's long standing belief they won't be wildly popular.

 adamsouza wrote:
After the debacle that was the Chapter House Lawsuit, I think the greatest barrier to Squats/Demiurg coming back to 40K is Mantic's Forge Fathers

Why would that stop them? GW doesn't believe they have any competition.

A real, new army would give me pause to look back at playing 40k actively. But it would have to also come with some serious business changes. I too saw that Squats image on Facebook and was floored.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
After the debacle that was the Chapter House Lawsuit, I think the greatest barrier to Squats/Demiurg coming back to 40K is Mantic's Forge Fathers

Why would that stop them? GW doesn't believe they have any competition.

Because they would have ZERO claim to IP.

What makes our Space Dwarfs completely different ? SKULLS, LOTS AND LOTS OF SKULLS !!! Oh, and they are not "dwarfs" they are Demiurg. Completely different from Dwarfs. Our artists were specially raised in a cave and have never seen or heard of "dwarf", They came up with the completely original concept off of the top of their head.

I dont like squats. And i really like dwarfs, specially in space. I would never be impressed with squats looking like that, and i dont think GW know what to do with dwarfs anyway (look at those fantasy gnomes). By the way, i think Mantic have done a great work with my beloved fantasy race, in booth sci-fi and med-fan.
This IMHO, but i think GW can keep space dwarfs untouched, and try to dont squat Sisters.
PS: if you really want squats who look like that, blend the new fantasy dwarfs kits with space marines and IG. All plastic squat army...

 Vermis wrote:
No, your signature. Butt-windows and armoured bikinis agogo if Roginshirozz did not-SoB, if most of their 'toughest girls in the galaxy' and other feminininily-inclined offerings are anything to go by.

Oh, you mean like the male marines. But of course everybody knows that the female body is not interesting and nobody would ever put a power bikini on a female character. Males, on the other hand, are known for displaying their body in tantalizing ways to get their opponent off-guard. Being sexy is the only way they can hope to win!

 Troike wrote:

teban wrote:
There is a reason why we dont have that many sisters with helmets and that is because they're not standard issue. They have to earn it first. Stupid reason? aye. but fluff has it that way right now.

Pretty sure that's just FFG fluff. And FFG also has Sisters shooting lasers out of their eyes.

The codexes themselves have never said anything about it. More likely, it was just a design choice when they were made.

I will need to check, but I seem to remember that from Codex: Witch Hunter actually.

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
The environment is right now that a Colossus, Leviathan, Overlord Airship, Gyrocpters, heck, even the Cyclops and Land Train are technically feasible, both from a technical and rules perspective.

Throw in some infantry options (Space Marine Statline with I2, Flak Armour, Lasgun and Stubborn) for a generic troops unit and an Exo Armour unit, and your mostly there!

Dammit, this rules thing is easy!!

The vehicles are possible and wouldn't look too far off next to certain Space Marine Fliers. Heck, the Storm Talon already looks like a Gyrocopter.

The Squats themselves though... . The style of 40k has changed. The Orks have changed drastically and things like troopers with goat heads and Dwarfs with over-sized heads and beards are gone. They looked ridiculous even in Rogue trader next to Marines, Guard and even Eldar with mohawk and chain mail. The only acceptable models in my eyes were the plastic ones, and they looked just like short guardsmen with beards.

Personally I don't want to see an army of Dwarfs. An excentric engineer in an Inquisitors retinue? Conscript squads made of abhuman labour slaves like those in the Lathe Worlds book? Yes, why not. But then, these wouldn't be Squats. If you take the dwarvish stuff from them, they're nothing that would deserve an army (would lead to something like the Grymns from Hasslefree I guess). And if not, they would be just Fantasy Dwarfs in space, like Mantics Forgefathers (don't like them at all).

This was their future in 2nd edition, and I was and am glad it was cancelled.

Exactly. Time and money put on squat means that their is less time and money to put on other projects. And since pretty much anything is more interesting than squats, I can only rejoice at the squatting of the squat. Hell, mantic forgefather are a perfect example of the mediocrity and boringness of the dwarf in space concept.

Time and money put on sisters means that their is less time and money to put on other projects. And since pretty much anything is more interesting than sisters, I can only rejoice at the squatting of the sisters.

MaxT wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
The environment is right now that a Colossus, Leviathan, Overlord Airship, Gyrocpters, heck, even the Cyclops and Land Train are technically feasible, both from a technical and rules perspective.

Throw in some infantry options (Space Marine Statline with I2, Flak Armour, Lasgun and Stubborn) for a generic troops unit and an Exo Armour unit, and your mostly there!

Dammit, this rules thing is easy!!

The vehicles are possible and wouldn't look too far off next to certain Space Marine Fliers. Heck, the Storm Talon already looks like a Gyrocopter.

The Squats themselves though... . The style of 40k has changed. The Orks have changed drastically and things like troopers with goat heads and Dwarfs with over-sized heads and beards are gone. They looked ridiculous even in Rogue trader next to Marines, Guard and even Eldar with mohawk and chain mail. The only acceptable models in my eyes were the plastic ones, and they looked just like short guardsmen with beards.

Personally I don't want to see an army of Dwarfs. An excentric engineer in an Inquisitors retinue? Conscript squads made of abhuman labour slaves like those in the Lathe Worlds book? Yes, why not. But then, these wouldn't be Squats. If you take the dwarvish stuff from them, they're nothing that would deserve an army (would lead to something like the Grymns from Hasslefree I guess). And if not, they would be just Fantasy Dwarfs in space, like Mantics Forgefathers (don't like them at all).

This was their future in 2nd edition, and I was and am glad it was cancelled.

Exactly. Time and money put on squat means that their is less time and money to put on other projects. And since pretty much anything is more interesting than squats, I can only rejoice at the squatting of the squat. Hell, mantic forgefather are a perfect example of the mediocrity and boringness of the dwarf in space concept.

Time and money put on sisters means that their is less time and money to put on other projects. And since pretty much anything is more interesting than sisters, I can only rejoice at the squatting of the sisters.

Not sure if your serious, but unfortunately most people within GW think like this.

I also think with the recent SJW rise Squats won't happen.


And if they did and looked like that well, let's just say I think some of my faith in GW would be restored, but that will not happen any time soon especially as Kirby has his claws in far too deep.


But that picture though.... cries

It looks like people are still stuck in denial or bargaining, twenty years (or more) after the fact. Squats are dead, man; let it go. Let it go.

As for the Facebook pic: ecch. That's the same goofy short vikings/fantasy dwarfs in space thing that Dryaktylos and Streetsamurai rightly sneered at a page ago. That, as was also mentioned, Mantic already churns out.

On sisters: I have to agree that having to 'earn' a helmet sounds a bit daft; especially after they've already been given a suit of some of the most advanced and impervious armour in the imperium, and the fact that in 40K, it's usually the old vets, officers and leaders who run around with their heads dangerously exposed. I'll echo that the most likely reason for lack of helmets is "'cos they was sculpted like that."

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Oh, you mean like the male marines. But of course everybody knows that the female body is not interesting and nobody would ever put a power bikini on a female character. Males, on the other hand, are known for displaying their body in tantalizing ways to get their opponent off-guard. Being sexy is the only way they can hope to win!

Maybe that's the reason for all those helmetless sergeants and things? Their square, blocky grimaces are too sexay for orks and nids to cope with?

Srsly tho, I agree that the ridonkulous chainmail bikini trope (and particularly most 'female SW storm trooper' concepts I've seen, which your male armour sig brings to mind) shows just how seriously women are taken in some popular sci-fi and fantasy. That alone is a top reason why sisters, power-armoured to the gills and meaning business, should be revamped and reinjected in 40K.

Squat fans don't die... and don't let things go.... It's that grudge thing you know?

Squats didn't die. They just attained a new form of existence.



So those veiled Sister sketches never reared their heads then? That's a shame.

 Vermis wrote:


On sisters: I have to agree that having to 'earn' a helmet sounds a bit daft; especially after they've already been given a suit of some of the most advanced and impervious armour in the imperium, and the fact that in 40K, it's usually the old vets, officers and leaders who run around with their heads dangerously exposed. I'll echo that the most likely reason for lack of helmets is "'cos they was sculpted like that."

I bet you are right ; "'cos they was sculpted like that."

But coincidentally it would not be entirely unrealistic fluff. Soviet paratroopers going into battle in Afghanistan in their berets, KGB border guards wearing their dress caps in the field in Afghanistan , German officers in service caps on the front line in WW II , just a few examples. A pride thing.
As for SoB , Troike expressed the thought somewhere that the SoB bob cut was the source of their mojo. Maybe they think of it in those terms , and a helmet otherwise isn't so much about another piece of practical gear, but in this case a further distinction.

 TheKbob wrote:
A real, new army would give me pause to look back at playing 40k actively. But it would have to also come with some serious business changes. I too saw that Squats image on Facebook and was floored.

There are plenty of Not Squat models from several other manufacturers such as Hasslefree and Mantic.

It would be nice to have a proper Squat codex but you could use the IG codex.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Troike wrote:

teban wrote:
There is a reason why we dont have that many sisters with helmets and that is because they're not standard issue. They have to earn it first. Stupid reason? aye. but fluff has it that way right now.

Pretty sure that's just FFG fluff. And FFG also has Sisters shooting lasers out of their eyes.

The codexes themselves have never said anything about it. More likely, it was just a design choice when they were made.

I will need to check, but I seem to remember that from Codex: Witch Hunter actually.

Just went through the Witch Hunters codex, didn't see it mentioned. It did, however, say that the helmet with the Fleur on it goes to "Sisters who have performed with exceptional courage and honour".

So yeah, if it's not there then it must be from that FFG fluff that has Sisters in the Calixis Sector needing to earn their helmet.

 KesaAnna wrote:
As for SoB , Troike expressed the thought somewhere that the SoB bob cut was the source of their mojo. Maybe they think of it in those terms , and a helmet otherwise isn't so much about another piece of practical gear, but in this case a further distinction.

Haha, nah, I was just being silly. I don't think that they've ever been noted to place any real significance on their hairdo. It's probably just a tradition for them.

This is a minor issue with SoB fluff, though. Little details like this, or the white hair thing, have gone unexplained. They probably are just design choices, but still.

not really (m)any rumours here.. alas.

So moving the thread to 40k general.

Bit of luck ... one day ! ..... there'll be something more solid.

I'd be okay if 9 out of 10 sisters started wearing helmets.

Serioulsy, what is the point of all that armor if you are going to leave your head exposed ?

 Troike wrote:
Just went through the Witch Hunters codex, didn't see it mentioned. It did, however, say that the helmet with the Fleur on it goes to "Sisters who have performed with exceptional courage and honour".

I am pretty sure I read that somewhere though, and it was not FFG. I will check my collection.

 Troike wrote:
This is a minor issue with SoB fluff, though. Little details like this, or the white hair thing, have gone unexplained. They probably are just design choices, but still.

If that can be considered relevant, there is at least one official artwork featuring a black sister with short, dark hair.

The bobcut is almost always there, but there are exception. The white hair is only often there. None of Andrea Uderzo's sisters had white hair, and those are among the best official artworks for Sisters, ever. Neither does my avatar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vermis wrote:
Maybe that's the reason for all those helmetless sergeants and things? Their square, blocky grimaces are too sexay for orks and nids to cope with?

Yeah, but those sergents would be much much better if they left a big gaping hole in their armor around the chest and crotch. Only the lower legs and arms need to be covered in armor. Everything else is superfluous and would hinder their natural agility.
If they do not wear pasties, it means the author wants to censor everything and put men under a burqua .

 Vermis wrote:
Srsly tho, I agree that the ridonkulous chainmail bikini trope (and particularly most 'female SW storm trooper' concepts I've seen, which your male armour sig brings to mind) shows just how seriously women are taken in some popular sci-fi and fantasy. That alone is a top reason why sisters, power-armoured to the gills and meaning business, should be revamped and reinjected in 40K.

I know .
Here is a feel-good article about some nice female storm trooper armor for you.

 adamsouza wrote:
I'd be okay if 9 out of 10 sisters started wearing helmets.

Serioulsy, what is the point of all that armor if you are going to leave your head exposed ?

Yeah, I always thought that they should just skip the whole hair thing and just give everyone helmets.
I understand that they want the sisters to look impressive and distinct, but if the hair is slowing down progress that much, a wise course of action would be to just drop it and just give 99% of the army helmets. A bit like what they do with marines, really.
After all, the HQ choices in most armies tend not to be multi-pose, right? I recall them usually being quite static.

MaxT wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
The environment is right now that a Colossus, Leviathan, Overlord Airship, Gyrocpters, heck, even the Cyclops and Land Train are technically feasible, both from a technical and rules perspective.

Throw in some infantry options (Space Marine Statline with I2, Flak Armour, Lasgun and Stubborn) for a generic troops unit and an Exo Armour unit, and your mostly there!

Dammit, this rules thing is easy!!

The vehicles are possible and wouldn't look too far off next to certain Space Marine Fliers. Heck, the Storm Talon already looks like a Gyrocopter.

The Squats themselves though... . The style of 40k has changed. The Orks have changed drastically and things like troopers with goat heads and Dwarfs with over-sized heads and beards are gone. They looked ridiculous even in Rogue trader next to Marines, Guard and even Eldar with mohawk and chain mail. The only acceptable models in my eyes were the plastic ones, and they looked just like short guardsmen with beards.

Personally I don't want to see an army of Dwarfs. An excentric engineer in an Inquisitors retinue? Conscript squads made of abhuman labour slaves like those in the Lathe Worlds book? Yes, why not. But then, these wouldn't be Squats. If you take the dwarvish stuff from them, they're nothing that would deserve an army (would lead to something like the Grymns from Hasslefree I guess). And if not, they would be just Fantasy Dwarfs in space, like Mantics Forgefathers (don't like them at all).

This was their future in 2nd edition, and I was and am glad it was cancelled.

Exactly. Time and money put on squat means that their is less time and money to put on other projects. And since pretty much anything is more interesting than squats, I can only rejoice at the squatting of the squat. Hell, mantic forgefather are a perfect example of the mediocrity and boringness of the dwarf in space concept.

Time and money put on sisters means that their is less time and money to put on other projects. And since pretty much anything is more interesting than sisters, I can only rejoice at the squatting of the sisters.

Lol, nice one

But in fact, i'm not really a SOB fan. While I'd like to see them in plastic, there's a lot of thing that I think would make more interesting additions to the 40k universe.

well, yeah, I think there maybe should be more of an option for helmets . ......... BUT

Ironically the example of the girl in the Stormtrooper costume shows ; when she puts on the helmet only the merest curve to the hips and structure of the knees and thighs would give you any hint of the sex. And be honest, if no one told you it was a girl, would you even notice it unless you were an art or anatomy major ? I.E . IT MIGHT AS WELL BE A GUY.

Notice it is three pictures without the helmet , and only , and finally, one picture with the helmet . A mere design choice ? If it is, it just happens to be the only reasonable, effective design choice. If it were ONLY the picture with the helmet , the whole effect would be : " Hoo Hum . What am I even looking at and why ? Just another little boy in a stormtrooper costume. "

Back to : Might as well be a guy = no reason not to squat them.

Avatars suggest the same thing. It's either helmet -less avatars , rather obvious Hathor the cow goddess proportions, or " I didn't know that was an SoB fan . "

It's the best compromise between chain mail bikinis or dull-as-dishwater - and-same-as-everyone -else - irrelevancy.

Personally , I'm not surprised or dismayed that the faction hasn't gotten much attention lately. why should it ? It's a darn good faction and a darn nice army.
Pricey ? hmmm, is there any faction you can get for 500 bucks ? I don't know about the rest of the world, but knowing Americans , if there is a 500 dollar army they wouldn't want it for that reason. " I wanna drive a motor scooter or a sub-compact when I grow up ! " isn't the ethos at all.

There are, as far as I know, only two reasons basically to play SoB :

-- You like girls

-- You like the religious theme.

You don't really like either ? Then it isn't for you.

migooo wrote:
Squat fans don't die... and don't let things go.... It's that grudge thing you know?

As a one-time owner of a 40k and Epic Squat army, I can assure you I have long since let things go.

I think most of the fans have long since given up waiting, and moved on.

Mantic have a pretty cool range of Forge Fathers now, which looks to be expanding both now and in future, which will scratch the itch for this kind of thing.
There are also some pretty cool range 'space dwarf' type ranges from other manufacturers.

there's a lot of thing that I think would make more interesting additions to the 40k universe

Whereas in reality what is produced is sadly more slightly different Space Marines with increasingly desperate additions to try and make them look a bit different - see the horrible space marine flyers GW did and the Blood guns and blood missiles etc etc as well as all the Dark Angels nonsense....

Also when they do occasionally do something different and unexpected, reviving a almost forgotten faction - Imperial Knights - they produce a brilliant model and sell loads. No lesson to learn there..........

Look at all the varied kickstarters and model ranges - female figures do sell - GW can make them but choses on the whole not to (same as its steadily phasing out female characters in the codexes...........)

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
hm, this could be good. depressing if it doesn't happen, but hey if we get Squats back.....

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment...

I'm pretty sure I just read that in Deliverance Lost...

 KesaAnna wrote:


well, yeah, I think there maybe should be more of an option for helmets . ......... BUT

Ironically the example of the girl in the Stormtrooper costume shows ; when she puts on the helmet only the merest curve to the hips and structure of the knees and thighs would give you any hint of the sex. And be honest, if no one told you it was a girl, would you even notice it unless you were an art or anatomy major ? I.E . IT MIGHT AS WELL BE A GUY.

Notice it is three pictures without the helmet , and only , and finally, one picture with the helmet . A mere design choice ? If it is, it just happens to be the only reasonable, effective design choice. If it were ONLY the picture with the helmet , the whole effect would be : " Hoo Hum . What am I even looking at and why ? Just another little boy in a stormtrooper costume. "

Back to : Might as well be a guy = no reason not to squat them.

Avatars suggest the same thing. It's either helmet -less avatars , rather obvious Hathor the cow goddess proportions, or " I didn't know that was an SoB fan . "

It's the best compromise between chain mail bikinis or dull-as-dishwater - and-same-as-everyone -else - irrelevancy.

Well, in reciprocation of Oxayotl's link (nice one!) and in response to this, take some time to have a browse through the Repair Her Armor tumblr. Have a good, deep dig. You don't have to bother reading most of the text.

Also, 11-12 year old girls don't tend towards hourglass figures, y'know? For that matter neither does their painstakingly measured and custom-made stormtrooper amour.

(Also also, thanks to this topic, I'm seriously considering dropping fitty quid into GW's coffers for a sister squad. Been a while since I considered giving 'em much money for anything.)

It's just occurred to me, in all of the accounts of the seminar I've seen, Jes doesn't seem to cite modelling issues as a barrier to an SoB release, just that they would have been a big job and required them to reallt get down and focus on them (though he apparently mentioned a dataslate release as a partial way around this). But anyway, this would tie in with a report from Enter the Citadel where GW devs apparently said that they now had the technology to do plastic Sisters.

Maybe I'm reading a little too much into this, though. But it may be the case that the modelling issues... aren't really an issue anymore.

Here are the others accounts of it, by the way. I realise that I kept alluding to them, but never linked them:
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/open-day-40k-seminars.html
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/40k-open-day-another-good-event-report.html

 Vermis wrote:
(Also also, thanks to this topic, I'm seriously considering dropping fitty quid into GW's coffers for a sister squad. Been a while since I considered giving 'em much money for anything.)

Go for it. Sisters can be a pretty good ally choice, too.

 Troike wrote:
It's just occurred to me, in all of the accounts of the seminar I've seen, Jes doesn't seem to cite modelling issues as a barrier to an SoB release, just that they would have been a big job and required them to reallt get down and focus on them (though he apparently mentioned a dataslate release as a partial way around this). But anyway, this would tie in with a report from Enter the Citadel where GW devs apparently said that they now had the technology to do plastic Sisters.

Maybe I'm reading a little too much into this, though. But it may be the case that the modelling issues... aren't really an issue anymore.

Well yeah, and considering the erm, sometimes questionable quality of the stuff that GW has released recently, I very much doubt there's someone at GW pulling the plug due to "sculpts not being good enough"

Getting back to the grimdark psychotic religious fanatics roots is just what 40k fluff would need ATM, so let's hope they come up with a mini-dex at some point - although I can see the Sisters getting the 'Stormtrooper treatment'..

 prowla wrote:
so let's hope they come up with a mini-dex at some point - although I can see the Sisters getting the 'Stormtrooper treatment'..

Mate, nah, Sisters are full-codex material. Always have been. Really, they have too many units to be a mini-dex. And I don't think that "I would like to put in time to fully update this army" indicates that they'll get some three unit codex.

Still, as was apparently hinted at/suggested in the seminar, a dataslate to tide us over would be nice.

 Troike wrote:

 prowla wrote:
so let's hope they come up with a mini-dex at some point - although I can see the Sisters getting the 'Stormtrooper treatment'..

Mate, nah, Sisters are full-codex material. Always have been. Really, they have too many units to be a mini-dex. And I don't think that "I would like to put in time to fully update this army" indicates that they'll get some three unit codex.

Still, as was apparently hinted at/suggested in the seminar, a dataslate to tide us over would be nice.

Besides, what would a "mini-dex" for Sisters even mean? GW already produces...mini-dexes in the forms of books like Imperial Knights and Scions Tempestus; they're nicely priced right at the same level of full codexes.

 Accolade wrote:

Besides, what would a "mini-dex" for Sisters even mean? GW already produces...mini-dexes in the forms of books like Imperial Knights and Scions Tempestus; they're nicely priced right at the same level of full codexes.

Same price, half the effort.. sounds about right for GW?