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needs to drop by a third at least, if not 50%. for almost everything. i have about £50 a month to spend on miniatures. at the moment GW sees less than half of that. the rest goes on ebay. if they lowered their prices significantly they'd see all of that.

 Barksdale wrote:

Well, they do have the snap fit guys which are a bit cheaper. The SM ones are 6 quid for 3 snap fits iirc. Tac squad is 25 quid for 10, but you get all the extra bitz.

There is probably almost no difference between them in production costs. Design costs might be somewhat higher for multi-poses.

It is not merely the price that needs to be adjusted.

The packaging must also be considered - if you need ten miniatures to field a full sized squad then a box should contain ten miniatures.

If a squad can be fielded as five man or as ten man squads then it should either have the upgrades to make two five man squads with the attendant support weapons or those support weapons should be available separately. (Alternately, have packaging for both five man and ten man squads.)

If an effective squad of Ork Boyz is twenty orks, then a box of twenty orks should be available. (With the attendant support weapons.)

Then price accordingly - by box size, discounting for larger boxes.

So, if a ten man box of Space Marines is thirty dollars then a twenty ork box might cost thirty five.

If a box can be fielded as either a standard troop or as an elite then charge for standard troops - they will be used for the standard troops more often. (Yes Dark Elves, I am looking at you. Eldar? Go stand next to them.)

And, yeah... drop prices by 30 to 40%.

The Auld Grump

I'm currently making (very slow) progress on a 40k army, combining both 40k and Fantasy bits. All my purchases so far have been on eBay. I'm probably $250 in, and will only be able to field a 500 point army. So at this rate, I likely won't be able to really get into the game (rulebook, codex, templates, etc.) for at least a year.

Now, I realize that my needing two kits per unit will drive my prices up, but this is somewhat balanced out by both general eBay discounts and the ability to purchase the specific bits I need. Does GW need to lower prices? Absolutely. Because there are thousands of people who play 40k that are in it just as much for the modelling as the gaming, and prices at their current level are restrictive at best from a modelling perspective. I agree that even a 20% discount across the board would make a huge difference. Even eliminating the inconsistencies already present in their pricing would help. For instance:

Cadian Shock Troops (10) = $29
Ork Boyz (10) = $29
Tau Fire Warriors (12 plus 2 drones) = $36.25
Necron Warriors (12 plus 3 Scarab bases) = $36.25
Eldar Guardians (10 plus heavy weapon) = $36.25
Space Marine Tactical Squad (10) = $40
Battle Sister Squad (10) = a whopping $79.80

These are all your basic troops, that every army NEEDS at least one of. Some of those aren't even a full unit. And the prices are all over the place. This definitely needs to be fixed.

Backfire wrote:

 Barksdale wrote:

kb305 wrote:

 jabbakahut wrote:
They should have economic tiers of models. Still make old marines with less detail and price them for beginners/apocalypse players with the higher quality models priced for collectors and serious players.

No, details doesn't equal quality. production costs are likely the same for a marine vs a marine covered in purity seals, so they would never do this.

Well, they do have the snap fit guys which are a bit cheaper. The SM ones are 6 quid for 3 snap fits iirc. Tac squad is 25 quid for 10, but you get all the extra bitz.

There is probably almost no difference between them in production costs. Design costs might be somewhat higher for multi-poses.

You're missing the point mate. You are paying for the increased quality. Multi-pose plastics are a cut above the snap-fits. Hence the higher price.

In terms of miniatures I'd say 50% of what is being charged now.

If smaller companies like Warlord and Perry can sell plastic sets with just as much detail as GW at £20 for about 30-40 miniatures, then I see no reason why GW think £25 for 10 plastic miniatures is in any way justifiable.

I agree with the poster that no business thinks of it's consumer first but it should think how to draw in sales and it's just not doing that.

They have more than enough ways to promote things in various ways and I don't think their not aware that a huge part of sales are lost to cheaper retailers or eBay. So what do they do try and wingback the lost buyers? Charge extra on the idiots who still buy from GW. It's the same with any weak company attempting to level it's losses. Charge the loyal buyer more instead of rewarding him with various offers or gifts? They don't even have a point system so they can keep track how much money a buyer is giving them. They just don't care.

I was a loyal supporter at one time but then over the years I got nothing back from them not even a thanks for being with them for so many rears I started hunting for cheaper minis elsewhere. Why would I stay since I had many options to get what I wanted cheaper elsewhere they lost me as a customer as I suspect many like me did the same.

They count the loss after a year and say ok to make back these losses charge 20% more for the items. Ts is poor management and just proves that the mighty franchise of GW is governed by a bunch of fools who have no clue how to attract customers just to steal from their existing ones. This is why they are in trouble to close down if they continue this method of business. Everyone will eventually look elsewhere in the near future. I mean who will stay!??

The reason smaller companies such as the Perry Twins can produce miniatures that are cheaper is that don't have the overheads that GW do.

It's the same principle that allows Amazon to sell books and other products at greatly reduced prices.

Taking the Perry Twins as an example, they sculpt their figures and outsource their production / tooling etc to another company.

Obviously they still have to pay the manufacturer but this is a flat fee.

The Perry Twins sell their product from their own webstore, or at events or to other retailers.

They don't have any overheads for stores, factories etc.

They will employ a small amount of staff, possibly a warehouse or distribution centre and may have to pay logistics costs but overall their costs and overheads will be low which is factored into their margin and allows their prices to be kept as low as possible in a competetive market (historical wargaming is actually much more competetive than Warhammer or 40K as there are multiple manufacturers).

Then take GW.

It pays a team of sculptors and designers and doesn't outsource the manufacture as it has it's own factory.

The tooling is done on machines GW is probably still paying for as they are not cheap.

They then produce all the box art and physical packaging, and pay a team of painters to paint the figures to promote them.

They have a huge work force including everything from factory workers to HR staff, canteen staff, painters, sales people etc.

They pay for their own warehouse facility and logistics.

They also have hundreds of stores with hundreds of staff to sell their product which they have to pay for.

These cost money not just in staffing but utilities etc.

Small companies such as Perry or even Dream Forge don't have these types of overheads.

All of this is taken to into account when GW set their prices and margins which is why they will always be more expensive than products from smaller independent companies.

If GW went down the Amazon route and closed all of its stores and became an online only company then yes they probably could reduce their costs significantly.

If they sold their product purely through independents and closed all of the B and M stores then yes prices would drop.

But GW will never do that.

There is a reason they don't spend a penny on advertising and that's because their B and M stores are their advertising.

A high street presence is more important than advertising and this is why Amazon are now opening High Street stores.

StraightSilver wrote:
All of this is taken to into account when GW set their prices and margins which is why they will always be more expensive than products from smaller independent companies.

All of that should reduce price and/or improve the product for the consumer, if they don't they shouldn't have been done to begin with. For example keeping sculptors ontstaff allows GW to design more products at a cheaper price per product than contracting out every time. Larger companies leverage economies of scale for cheaper products - that's kind of their thing.

I'd like to see a tactical squad at around 20USD. I would think that is more than fair on materials alone. The manufacturing costs of GW can't be THAT expensive to make. The materials aren't that much different from any other models out there. Model planes, cars and boats have been around for ages, and you can still get a finely detailed kit for under 20USD. It would be nice to see the GW models at a much more affordable cost, this way you can attract more players and hobbyists. Not to mention it would be great for the company if more people were invested in it. Some people like to just paint and not actually play the game too.I for one love to paint models of armies I don't even play, just because I want to try a different color scheme, or to broaden my reach on the hobby.

Think about it - GW games are almost as time consuming are they are financially expensive. Models don't need to be the most expensive for people to think it is the best game out there, but price them cheaper and people will be more opt to try out different armies and combinations to really see what works for them. -Not to mention pick up the more 'serious' models that help bring an army to the next level.

On a similar note- A friend gifted me a Chaplain Xavier model over 10 years ago for around 25USD, today, that same character is dead in the fluff, and the model has no special rules, and is not usable as anything other than a generic Chaplain. There is NO NEED for a 25USD single character model, let alone 40USD for a squad.

This is a link to a blog post that I made some time ago about hobby pricing

I apologize in advance to anyone who gets infuriated about posting links, but I think it applies. If you are going to blow a gasket and flame thrower me for wasting your time, please do not read this article.

http://proxiemodels.blogspot.com/2013/06/a-tale-of-2-hobbies-long-talk-sure-to.html

(sorry to be rude, but of late I avoid forums because I sometimes make a mistake and make others angry at me when I post)

If you look at the price of your hobby products, it might surprise you to know that actual production costs are about 15% or less. The rest is various levels of mark-ups at all levels of distribution. The part I do not understand is that people are quick to attack the company making the products, which I agree with 100% as being too high. But the people in the middle also cause a lot of the costs. If you order direct online all of those steps are bypassed, but the cost has to be maintained at the higher level to support retail distribution.

GW could sell troop boxes at $20-25 and still do quite well. ( and I mean 20 minis per box like they used to have) They add way too much cost in to the models for intangibles like fluff writing, super abilities, and fancy names.

I think GW is trying to bypass distributers, and the other company mentioned in my post also does not go through distribution. This creates a savings of about 20% for the company. Carrera passes that savings on to the customers and has the lowest price slot cars.

When I started out in 1998 they were pretty damn affordable.

I think the 3rd Edition starter was retailing at 45 Irish £s at the time.

A SM Tac Squad was maybe £12 pounds, or possibly £15.

I just remember when the Euro came in that the rate was €1.27 to 1 Punt. And the SM Box was €15-17, then within 9 months €21, a year or so €25. Now it's €35!

€31 for a lot of other armies core tactical units. With VAT (sales tax) of 23% making the real price seem sensible...

The Euro Interest rate as a currency has been artificially set at 0.1% a lot of the past 12 years.

The Irish economy was growing at a rate of 6-7% during the celtic tiger, barely scrapping growth right now.

And yet GWs Prices seem to have never moved. Improved sculpting, tech, wider ranges, more expensive books, less stores, less back room staff, and they still charge so much?

Cute "hoores" as the Irish say.

As a consumer who has gotten the bug for building little plastic men I would rather have more men for my € ,then more specialist men and a big book.

The GW store staff are also always Up-selling and encouraging purchases that don't seem to always fit individual taste or army list sense. I really regret that damned Landspeeder Storm...

Well that's the whole point of their margin which everybody seems to be missing.

GW's margin on their kits is 75%.

This means it costs GW 25% of the retail value to produce it.

So a kit at £10 costs them £2.50 to make.

Any retailer sets their minimum margin at 48-50% but they are rarely the manufacturer and distributor as well as retailer.

So for example Penguin publishers make books which they sell to retail stores.

Their margin will be roughly half of the book's retail value but they only sell to stores so don't have to pay for that part of the process.

So although a margin of 75% is quite high compared to other companies GW is one of a only a few that actually produces, distributes and sells through its own stores its own product.

To everybody saying their prices are too high don't understand that their prices are actually as high as they need to be.

Yes they could cut costs a bit but then they wouldn't make any money which is the point of the business.

Looking at the just released annual report though does show a drop in sales revenue of 7-8%

I don't think this has anything to do with their pricing but more to do with a huge drop in market share.

There are simply too many other products for people to buy which are drawing sales away from GW.

For over 30 years GW had a huge portion of the market share and their production and pricing models are based on this, but that simply isn't the case any more.

As well as other games systems there are also other minis companies selling kits compatible with GW systems (Victoria Lamb and Kromlech for example).

GW needs to grab back market share, and the only way it can do this is to invest in either a huge advertising campaign, a PR campaign or maybe even brand new products to compete with things like X-Wing, Drop Zone, Malifaux etc.

Funnily enough they had exactly that when they had specialist games (X-Wing = BFG, Drop Zone = Epic, Malifaux = Mordheim/Necromunda).

 Chute82 wrote:

Da Stormlord wrote:

 Barksdale wrote:
From a price/quality standpoint I'm fine with where they're at now. But let's face it, even if they were free, people would still find reasons to bitch.

I agree. There's an independent wargaming stall 2 streets from my local games workshop, they sell 40k for 20%-40% cheaper than my local gw, but people still continue to go to the gw stall. Ever since GW announced they lost approx 3,000,000 English pounds they've cut down how many days they're open...

Do they buy their stuff at the lgs and play at the GW store?

It might be a bit unethical to do that, but GW's prices are that high BECAUSE of the GW stores. If a 20% discount from the FLGS is enough to keep them afloat, why can't GW charge the same from their own stores?

 Skinnereal wrote:
It might be a bit unethical to do that, but GW's prices are that high BECAUSE of the GW stores. If a 20% discount from the FLGS is enough to keep them afloat, why can't GW charge the same from their own stores?

They think their product is a luxury good, like Tiffany's, and thus don't want to devalue it by having sales or offering discount.

kenofyork wrote:
This is a link to a blog post that I made some time ago about hobby pricing

I apologize in advance to anyone who gets infuriated about posting links, but I think it applies. If you are going to blow a gasket and flame thrower me for wasting your time, please do not read this article.

http://proxiemodels.blogspot.com/2013/06/a-tale-of-2-hobbies-long-talk-sure-to.html

(sorry to be rude, but of late I avoid forums because I sometimes make a mistake and make others angry at me when I post)

If you look at the price of your hobby products, it might surprise you to know that actual production costs are about 15% or less. The rest is various levels of mark-ups at all levels of distribution. The part I do not understand is that people are quick to attack the company making the products, which I agree with 100% as being too high. But the people in the middle also cause a lot of the costs. If you order direct online all of those steps are bypassed, but the cost has to be maintained at the higher level to support retail distribution.

GW could sell troop boxes at $20-25 and still do quite well. ( and I mean 20 minis per box like they used to have) They add way too much cost in to the models for intangibles like fluff writing, super abilities, and fancy names.

I think GW is trying to bypass distributers, and the other company mentioned in my post also does not go through distribution. This creates a savings of about 20% for the company. Carrera passes that savings on to the customers and has the lowest price slot cars.

I agree. A lot of the price in a GW box of tac marines comes from their bloated company and their dumb stores. Eliminate the dumb stores, support FLGSs (THEIR REAL LIFEBLOOD!) and reduce entry costs/costs in general and GW would do a lot better.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

kenofyork wrote:
This is a link to a blog post that I made some time ago about hobby pricing

I apologize in advance to anyone who gets infuriated about posting links, but I think it applies. If you are going to blow a gasket and flame thrower me for wasting your time, please do not read this article.

http://proxiemodels.blogspot.com/2013/06/a-tale-of-2-hobbies-long-talk-sure-to.html

(sorry to be rude, but of late I avoid forums because I sometimes make a mistake and make others angry at me when I post)

If you look at the price of your hobby products, it might surprise you to know that actual production costs are about 15% or less. The rest is various levels of mark-ups at all levels of distribution. The part I do not understand is that people are quick to attack the company making the products, which I agree with 100% as being too high. But the people in the middle also cause a lot of the costs. If you order direct online all of those steps are bypassed, but the cost has to be maintained at the higher level to support retail distribution.

GW could sell troop boxes at $20-25 and still do quite well. ( and I mean 20 minis per box like they used to have) They add way too much cost in to the models for intangibles like fluff writing, super abilities, and fancy names.

I think GW is trying to bypass distributers, and the other company mentioned in my post also does not go through distribution. This creates a savings of about 20% for the company. Carrera passes that savings on to the customers and has the lowest price slot cars.

I agree. A lot of the price in a GW box of tac marines comes from their bloated company and their dumb stores. Eliminate the dumb stores, support FLGSs (THEIR REAL LIFEBLOOD!) and reduce entry costs/costs in general and GW would do a lot better.

I don't actually disagree with you on this, however to say that FLGSs are their real life blood is a very US centric point of view. In the rest of the World that simply isn't the case and GW relies on its retail stores to drive business and more importantly product presence.

However as company based in the UK GW seem to becoming more and more insular, as one commentator on the GW share page put it "sticking their head in the sand". They are themselves becoming more and more UK centric and i think their business model works fine in Europe but isn't working in the US, Australia or New Zealand.

I think closing down the international arms of GW and centralising everything back to Lenton was possible a bit knee jerk and hasty.

FLGSs are their main driver of sales in the US and maybe their business model should reflect that, but certainly in UK in any case independent game stores are few and far between compared to GW stores (there is pretty much a GW store on every major high street here).

That is I have to say changing, stores like Dark Sphere and Wayland / Tabletop Nation give GW stores a run for their money and that's purely down to the fact that GW's crazy stipulations on stores having games tables etc has probably back fired on them a bit.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Land Raider: $45

It's a large kit admittedly but it is not worth $70. It's a big plastic box with little detail or optional parts.

Space Marine Tactical Squad: $25.

Marines aren't worth $4 a miniature. They aren't that nice.

Stormtalon: $20.

It's a small box.

Stormraven: $40

Another plastic box.

Eldar Dire Avengers:
$12.50

They're small plastic men with chunky details. Why are they $7 a miniature?

Leman Russ Battle Tank:$35

$50 god damn dollars for a small plastic box? Nope.

Cadian Shock Troops:
$15

They're Guardsman. Why are they so damned pricey?

Ogryn:
$10

They're three stupid models.

Single monoposed Captain:
$5

It's a monoposed plastic mini. $5 is a little generous too.

Rhino: $20

Small box is not worth as much as the squad it carries. It's just plastic sheets.

I'm thinking along the lines of this. In addition:

Trygons, Gorka/Morkanaughts, etc - 40$ (or 55$ at most)

Yes, they're powerful and quite large. 80$ is too much of a stretch though.

StraightSilver wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

kenofyork wrote:
This is a link to a blog post that I made some time ago about hobby pricing

I apologize in advance to anyone who gets infuriated about posting links, but I think it applies. If you are going to blow a gasket and flame thrower me for wasting your time, please do not read this article.

http://proxiemodels.blogspot.com/2013/06/a-tale-of-2-hobbies-long-talk-sure-to.html

(sorry to be rude, but of late I avoid forums because I sometimes make a mistake and make others angry at me when I post)

If you look at the price of your hobby products, it might surprise you to know that actual production costs are about 15% or less. The rest is various levels of mark-ups at all levels of distribution. The part I do not understand is that people are quick to attack the company making the products, which I agree with 100% as being too high. But the people in the middle also cause a lot of the costs. If you order direct online all of those steps are bypassed, but the cost has to be maintained at the higher level to support retail distribution.

GW could sell troop boxes at $20-25 and still do quite well. ( and I mean 20 minis per box like they used to have) They add way too much cost in to the models for intangibles like fluff writing, super abilities, and fancy names.

I think GW is trying to bypass distributers, and the other company mentioned in my post also does not go through distribution. This creates a savings of about 20% for the company. Carrera passes that savings on to the customers and has the lowest price slot cars.

I agree. A lot of the price in a GW box of tac marines comes from their bloated company and their dumb stores. Eliminate the dumb stores, support FLGSs (THEIR REAL LIFEBLOOD!) and reduce entry costs/costs in general and GW would do a lot better.

I don't actually disagree with you on this, however to say that FLGSs are their real life blood is a very US centric point of view. In the rest of the World that simply isn't the case and GW relies on its retail stores to drive business and more importantly product presence.

However as company based in the UK GW seem to becoming more and more insular, as one commentator on the GW share page put it "sticking their head in the sand". They are themselves becoming more and more UK centric and i think their business model works fine in Europe but isn't working in the US, Australia or New Zealand.

I think closing down the international arms of GW and centralising everything back to Lenton was possible a bit knee jerk and hasty.

FLGSs are their main driver of sales in the US and maybe their business model should reflect that, but certainly in UK in any case independent game stores are few and far between compared to GW stores (there is pretty much a GW store on every major high street here).

That is I have to say changing, stores like Dark Sphere and Wayland / Tabletop Nation give GW stores a run for their money and that's purely down to the fact that GW's crazy stipulations on stores having games tables etc has probably back fired on them a bit.

Ah, yes, I forgot about the UK gaming culture. I agree that if GW stores are their main money makers over there they should be supported. Perhaps they should adopt a multinational business strategy of catering to the needs of each country. In the UK they would make their stores community centers, in the US they would support the FLGS and so on.

Of course, this would require GW to actually know what the customer wants. They think that, like Henry Ford, they know what's best for the customer.

Regardless of market culture, what about the online market then? orders usually have free shipping at a certain price point (65USD at GW) so international shipping costs do not apply when making medium-larger purchases.

Prices on 7th edition rules right now:
Games-Workshop.com- 85$
MiniatureMarket.com - 68$ (MO, USA)
thewarstore.com- 68$ (NY, USA)

at the very least, would it not be possible to match these prices or something similar?

If I wanted to pick up the new edition rules, codex, tactical objectives and psychic powers to stay up to date:
USA Game Store: $132.80 (Free Domestic Shipping)
GW: $166 (Free International Shipping)

Off the bat a $33 is enough to sway where I would make my purchases, not to mention leaves me with almost enough left to pick up some more troops! GW still made a profit on it btw.

Now if they were at least equally priced, I would 100% buy from GW, because of the exclusives they offer.

Basic troops should run $25 per box.

10 miniatures standard, with 12 for Eldar and Tau, and 15 for Orks.

Transports at $35 each.

LR at $50.

I agree with everything StraightSilver is saying.

It's sad the FLGS is what is needed for GW in the US and all they've done is gak on them for years.

GW has a huge legal team they keep on their payroll as well.

I want to win one of those mega lotteries and just buy the company (anybody know the current valuation)?

I think a problem they had was a huge spike resulting from the LotR property acquisition riding on top of the movie hype train. If you look through their annual reports their profits shot through the roof during this period. I assume they brought in a ton of people (good ones like designers, but also bad ones like marketers and lawyers). Today they're left trying to figure how to sustain when that ship has long sailed. They're simply too big of a company at this point to serve the consumer on the personal level that one would expect for a HOBBY company.

As a US citizen, I've always hated the GW stores. I guess they must trick enough children into getting their parents to pay an exuberant sum for toys they will likely barely assemble, never paint, then forget about next month-to pay the electric bills. But I just see how they serve the company otherwise.

Jamesk1973 has the right idea I think. The basic troop choice for every army should be around $25-30 and the box should include enough models to field a full size squad up to about 20 models. Then a vanilla HQ should cost about $5-10. Starter sets should include 2 of the basic troop, the vanilla HQ, a vehicle (with a discounted price) and a squad from another force org slot (also at a discounted price). Total cost would be in the neighborhood of $120.

Have most squads and vehicles range from $30-50 with prices rising based on power level. Then have premium squads and vehicles with much higher prices in the neighborhood of $75-100. Super Heavies, Titans and the like would be more than that.

Basically bring people in with a relatively cheap starter army that will get boring quickly, make them pay more to expand, and pay a premium for the real exciting stuff in the army.

As far as rules go, I think they should have a core rule set that is free, is available online and is updated quarterly (releasing new models with each update) to fine tune balance of the core rules and across all the armies (preferably a hybrid of 4th and 5th editions). Eliminate a lot of the bloat that came in with 5th and 6th (flyers, super heavies, etc. ) from the core rules, but make them available in rules supplements that are for sale. This should create a thriving tournament environment. They could probably still sell hard copy core rules and individual codexes to people who don't care about being exactly up to date all the time. Just have a regular release schedule about every three years of the current rules. Buyers of the hard copy will probably be more interested in modeling and fluff and solid offerings in those areas would further drive sales of that product.

Sell rules supplements for casual play for huge point games, squad level games, specialized, detailed terrain rules, special missions and a host of other things often accompanied by the release of a new model or models.

The point is to draw people in with a low starting cost, then when you have them hooked use constant changing variety on the periphery to prompt continuous purchase by an increasingly loyal fan base.

To me 40k is by far the most interesting and compelling space fantasy world with a game included out there despite the fact that I think the whole grim dark thing is stupid. The game has had great functionality, but the whole thing is falling apart now. If they made the changes above I think they would bring many players like myself who want to return to the game but just see it going in a bad direction back to the game, draw new blood more easily, and create greater long term loyalty.

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:
Jamesk1973 has the right idea I think. The basic troop choice for every army should be around $25-30 and the box should include enough models to field a full size squad up to about 20 models. Then a vanilla HQ should cost about $5-10. Starter sets should include 2 of the basic troop, the vanilla HQ, a vehicle (with a discounted price) and a squad from another force org slot (also at a discounted price). Total cost would be in the neighborhood of $120.

Have most squads and vehicles range from $30-50 with prices rising based on power level. Then have premium squads and vehicles with much higher prices in the neighborhood of $75-100. Super Heavies, Titans and the like would be more than that.

Basically bring people in with a relatively cheap starter army that will get boring quickly, make them pay more to expand, and pay a premium for the real exciting stuff in the army.

As far as rules go, I think they should have a core rule set that is free, is available online and is updated quarterly (releasing new models with each update) to fine tune balance of the core rules and across all the armies (preferably a hybrid of 4th and 5th editions). Eliminate a lot of the bloat that came in with 5th and 6th (flyers, super heavies, etc. ) from the core rules, but make them available in rules supplements that are for sale. This should create a thriving tournament environment. They could probably still sell hard copy core rules and individual codexes to people who don't care about being exactly up to date all the time. Just have a regular release schedule about every three years of the current rules. Buyers of the hard copy will probably be more interested in modeling and fluff and solid offerings in those areas would further drive sales of that product.

Sell rules supplements for casual play for huge point games, squad level games, specialized, detailed terrain rules, special missions and a host of other things often accompanied by the release of a new model or models.

The point is to draw people in with a low starting cost, then when you have them hooked use constant changing variety on the periphery to prompt continuous purchase by an increasingly loyal fan base.

To me 40k is by far the most interesting and compelling space fantasy world with a game included out there despite the fact that I think the whole grim dark thing is stupid. The game has had great functionality, but the whole thing is falling apart now. If they made the changes above I think they would bring many players like myself who want to return to the game but just see it going in a bad direction back to the game, draw new blood more easily, and create greater long term loyalty.

I think the sizes could likely vary, but give a FULL SQUAD with all the trimmings. So for example, a Tactical Squad should be around $25, contain 10 Marines plus one of each special AND heavy weapon, and enough bits to make a sergeant with whatever upgrades (do they still even have Veteran Sergeants?). Basically, it should include the maximum number (or the most reasonable number to field, e.g. if the max is 40 make it 20) and not require you to buy multiple boxes to fully kit out a single squad. That makes it still pricey, but not insane. WHFB though should be priced roughly the same as Perry or Mantic: Either a box that has a large number of guys that can be assembled as multiple units (Perry's European Mercenaries, for example) or a full squad of 20 with Command (Mantic) for infantry, 10 for cavalry. That way you don't have this bullgak where you need to buy two boxes to make ONE unit.

StraightSilver wrote:

A high street presence is more important than advertising

Is that even really true where you live?

In the US, they would need to open hundreds more stores and staff them appropriately to even have what I assume you mean by "high street presence". It's just not feasible to assume that millions of potential customers will somehow stumble upon one of your stores at a point in time when they are willing to investigate further. Maybe if GW still had mall stores, it might be different, but no one without an Improbability Drive just stumbles across GW stores that happen to be in run-down strip malls where the rent is affordable.

Maybe GW just have no idea how big and spread out the US population is and how much of an issue transportation is. Without the deep cultural penetration GW appears to have in the UK, here they are practically invisible.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:

A high street presence is more important than advertising

Is that even really true where you live?

In the US, they would need to open hundreds more stores and staff them appropriately to even have what I assume you mean by "high street presence". It's just not feasible to assume that millions of potential customers will somehow stumble upon one of your stores at a point in time when they are willing to investigate further. Maybe if GW still had mall stores, it might be different, but no one without an Improbability Drive just stumbles across GW stores that happen to be in run-down strip malls where the rent is affordable.

Maybe GW just have no idea how big and spread out the US population is and how much of an issue transportation is. Without the deep cultural penetration GW appears to have in the UK, here they are practically invisible.

Agreed, I'm only seeing one thing on high street atm. BA-DOOM!-DOOM!- TUSH!

Here in Canada if they took the prices down at least 25% or to a level comparable to their early-mid 00's you would see more people staying with the game. A lot of people quite after their 1st army update, then they use too.

I think a good judge of price is Reaper. They sell incredibly well and are making a good profit according to their company reports. I don't feel burned at about 5 dollar for a metal miniature (not counting the amazing deal that is bones where you can make rank and file for super cheap). Occasionally they make a bigger better miniature and it goes for 7-8. Sure they are monoposed, but as we all know plastic is cheaper than metal, so the cost of making posable miniatures is offset by the use of plastic. If GW wants to be extra greedy add a dollar or 2 for "characters" that you have to buy. People are willing to spend extra on their special needs units.

Centuarions are 72 for 3 minis.........that's insane. That box should be at most 33.

And this is not coming form "oh I cant afford my hobby cause I don't make enough." I have a good job. That is well within my budget. But I just cant get past how much it costs. Due to GW pricing I have not bought a non used miniature in 3 years. They could get 30 off me...or 0. what makes more sense?

The biggest issues I have with their pricing is twofold:

1) It's seemingly random. Kit A is three guys for $50, Kit B is three guys roughly the same size for $70, for basically no reason.

2) Lack of value. This is the big thing. It's not so much "GW kits are expensive" it's that you don't get much for your money. 10 Space Marines for $40 is bullgak, both for the fact that you can't give them all the options available (only a Missile Launcher is included) without buying a different kit, and the fact that 10 Space Marines is a minuscule part of your "collection".

That's why I like the Bolt Action pricing. The plastic kits are multi-part and let you make a variety of squads, with options to make extras. For instance, the German Heer Infantry lets me make a command squad, two squads of troops and a sniper team if I want, or I could do two large squads, or three smaller squads, etc. There's variety. Now granted since the infantry kits are roughly all generic looking guys and its their weapons that make them different, this isn't a perfect analogy to 40k where things look differently, but there's no reason why GW couldn't sell a box of 20 or even 30 Marines for $40 and include all the heavy weapons, jump packs, command bits, etc. so I could build a combination of units as I want. Even something like that would be a step in the right direction.

My short answer is cut the US/UK prices by 35%. Make the rest of the world pay US/UK prices. Aussie prices are complete BS.


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I don't need pretty box art either.