Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 M0ff3l wrote:
The repairs are done and the project is being moved to the painters floor. The next update I get will be pictures of the finished project and if I approve of them.

So this thread will go silent for a while I guess, but Im sure that when I get the pictures there will be a lot more discussing going on.

So in a few weeks when the project is done?

I thought you'd be getting WIP photos?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

Also, I know this comes down to personal choice, but if I was asking for a combo conversion and the studio charged me for a full Rhino to get the part, that would have been enough to get me to go elsewhere. Or you could have offered to buy the rhino (and sell what you didn't need) and send them the part to add on. I feel like they really took advantage of you here.

Really? I missed that part. Yeah, if they charged you for a Rhino, then they need to give you the rest of the kit. That's fething dodgy, if true.

 Azazelx wrote:
I thought you'd be getting WIP photos?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

Also, I know this comes down to personal choice, but if I was asking for a combo conversion and the studio charged me for a full Rhino to get the part, that would have been enough to get me to go elsewhere. Or you could have offered to buy the rhino (and sell what you didn't need) and send them the part to add on. I feel like they really took advantage of you here.

Really? I missed that part. Yeah, if they charged you for a Rhino, then they need to give you the rest of the kit. That's fething dodgy, if true.

This is from their Terms of Service:

http://bluetablepainting.com/terms-of-service/
Bitz
Extra parts from kits that we buy on behalf of a client are not returned except on request. This allows us to keep the cost of conversions down– clients that leave their bitz with us benefit other clients and vice versa. The request has to be made in the Assembly portion of your Instructions sheet.

So it's probable that they bought the kit, pulled the bit and charged the client for the entire model...

Charging the price of a Rhino for a couple bits sure is "keeping the cost of conversions down"

Exactly. It's a joke. Then again, if the buyer is okay with it...shrug. His money. But I'd go somewhere else. Buying them two free tanks to add two small guns on is complete BS, putting it in their ToS doesn't make it right. Moff3l, I hope they do you some serious damn justice as a paint job. Because at the moment it looks like you're getting robbed blind. Good luck.

Nothing wrong with only sending bits if it's requested, most people buying painted models probably don't care.

you guys are sounding cheap and bitter at this point.

tattoo artist charge between 140-200 dollars per hour, I'm just saying.

kb305 wrote:
Nothing wrong with only sending bits if it's requested, most people buying painted models probably don't care.

you guys are sounding cheap and bitter at this point.

tattoo artist charge between 140-200 dollars per hour, I'm just saying.

For initial work, afterwords their prices drop significantly.

kb305 wrote:
Nothing wrong with only sending bits if it's requested, most people buying painted models probably don't care.

you guys are sounding cheap and bitter at this point.

tattoo artist charge between 140-200 dollars per hour, I'm just saying.

If I was charged 65 dollars for a havoc launcher I'd be just north of livid if I did not receive the rest of the Rhino. I could have bought the kit for far less than that and shipped them the launcher.

I understand less and less why BTP is still in business. This Rhinothing really is nothing short of a scam...
Just compare it to how the GOOD guys treat their customers... 4 days and no pics? In 4 days DoI hat my freakin' Fire Raptor completely painted!

 Eldarain wrote:
Charging the price of a Rhino for a couple bits sure is "keeping the cost of conversions down"

This is the same company that charged $60 to swap hunter killer missiles with havoc launchers.

But keeping bits keeps the cost down

 RivenSkull wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Charging the price of a Rhino for a couple bits sure is "keeping the cost of conversions down"

This is the same company that charged $60 to swap hunter killer missiles with havoc launchers.

But keeping bits keeps the cost down

So not only dose he make you pay for a rhino+work, he then get's to keep the rhino and sell it at a premium over normal retail once it's painted and assembled in the next studio army.

He must make a nice profit off the free rhinos he gets to sell to other people at the end of that day.

 Lockark wrote:

 RivenSkull wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Charging the price of a Rhino for a couple bits sure is "keeping the cost of conversions down"

This is the same company that charged $60 to swap hunter killer missiles with havoc launchers.

But keeping bits keeps the cost down

So not only dose he make you pay for a rhino+work, he then get's to keep the rhino and sell it at a premium over normal retail once it's painted and assembled in the next studio army.

He must make a nice profit off the free rhinos he gets to sell to other people at the end of that day.

Well, I mean this guy did jump into buying from BTP just because of Ten's thread. I too thought we were going to be getting some WIP photos, not to sound salty. Regardless, I'd be going off like a St.helens if I got charged a rhino for a weapon swap/for a bit. This guy doesn't seem to care though, he loves throwing money at a "good company."

 Lockark wrote:

 RivenSkull wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Charging the price of a Rhino for a couple bits sure is "keeping the cost of conversions down"

This is the same company that charged $60 to swap hunter killer missiles with havoc launchers.

But keeping bits keeps the cost down

So not only dose he make you pay for a rhino+work, he then get's to keep the rhino and sell it at a premium over normal retail once it's painted and assembled in the next studio army.

He must make a nice profit off the free rhinos he gets to sell to other people at the end of that day.

Unless he wants the rhino. Which it says they'd give to him if he requested it. They already charged him for it, so he can either leave it as a "tip", or ask for it back. What happens to it afterward really doesn't matter.

 Bi'ios wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 RivenSkull wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Charging the price of a Rhino for a couple bits sure is "keeping the cost of conversions down"

This is the same company that charged $60 to swap hunter killer missiles with havoc launchers.

But keeping bits keeps the cost down

So not only dose he make you pay for a rhino+work, he then get's to keep the rhino and sell it at a premium over normal retail once it's painted and assembled in the next studio army.

He must make a nice profit off the free rhinos he gets to sell to other people at the end of that day.

Unless he wants the rhino. Which it says they'd give to him if he requested it. They already charged him for it, so he can either leave it as a "tip", or ask for it back. What happens to it afterward really doesn't matter.

I know for a fact their was a period of time that BTP use to keep all the bits from any kit they got. This police was "changed" after people started raising a stink in their youtube comments. This came about when he started bragging about his bits wall, and people started becoming aware with the fact he was obsessed with hoarding them.

Even after that their is a track record for them "forgetting" to ship it with the rest of your stuff, and then asking for you to pay additional in shipping for the "bitz" separate. They will not pay for their own "mistake". I recall this happening a few times to people that had projects with BTP. Many do no bother fighting/paying BTP even more just to get their bitz back and drop the issue.

 Bi'ios wrote:
Unless he wants the rhino. Which it says they'd give to him if he requested it. They already charged him for it, so he can either leave it as a "tip", or ask for it back. What happens to it afterward really doesn't matter.

They should be at least asking him if he wants the rest of the sprue, or returning it by default, instead of requiring you ask them in the assembly stage. Especially if it's a single irrelevant bit from a large kit. Personally, if they'd bought 2 tank kits on my behalf and charged me full price I'd be assuming the rest of the kit was coming back to me.

If they'd already had a store bits box, then I'd expect to only pay a fair price for the bit and not see anything back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thairne wrote:
I understand less and less why BTP is still in business. This Rhinothing really is nothing short of a scam...

I'm starting to wonder that as well. Everything seems a bit scammy.

I charge for kits bought for use as bits, and I operate with the assumption that unused bits go in the pool. I do also use a lot of bits that I have without charge, if something fits the pose, style or whatever I am trying to achieve.

However, I state when I'm doing so and usually suggest that something be done with those bits. As 'written' I too would keep a Rhino bought for one part (but it would have been more efficient to buy the part only from a bits reseller). I wouldn't suggest buying a kit if it was inefficient to the client.

winterdyne wrote:
However, I state when I'm doing so and usually suggest that something be done with those bits.

As in you tell them that you normally keep the sprue, and suggest additional sprue parts that can be used in the users projects? That seems fair, everything is up front and you're trying to be cost effective.

It's definately a more honest approach. Just telling how many missed that "detail" in the comission in the first part.

winterdyne wrote:
I charge for kits bought for use as bits, and I operate with the assumption that unused bits go in the pool. I do also use a lot of bits that I have without charge, if something fits the pose, style or whatever I am trying to achieve.

However, I state when I'm doing so and usually suggest that something be done with those bits. As 'written' I too would keep a Rhino bought for one part (but it would have been more efficient to buy the part only from a bits reseller). I wouldn't suggest buying a kit if it was inefficient to the client.

But do you buy a new in box tac squad just for a single melta gun or missile launcher, then keep the rest of the box for your self?

Like if you built a tac out of the box, and kept the unused bits that's fine, or if you at least check bit sellers before resorting to buying a whole box of dudes.

But when your 1st choice to get a single thunder hammer is to buy a box of termies, then keep the rest of it for your self unless your client fights with you to get them. Because every story of btp communication I've heard is pulling teeth.

I agree their is a fine line between reasonable and unreasonable in this situation.

Herzlos wrote:

winterdyne wrote:
However, I state when I'm doing so and usually suggest that something be done with those bits.

As in you tell them that you normally keep the sprue, and suggest additional sprue parts that can be used in the users projects? That seems fair, everything is up front and you're trying to be cost effective.

Yeah. As I normally work from unbuilt stock, getting in a box of Death Company to tart up rank and file Blood Angels (for example) is worthwhile. Obviously there I'd end up with spare bits and bobs which could be used later (if I have parts handy) on other projects. I'm currently using Lizardman bit leftovers on the Mayan marines I'm doing for example - client's not had to pay for parts, there, but did pay for a sanguinary guard set a long time ago which is still donating parts (both to his projects and others) now. What goes around comes around - my objective is obviously not to find myself out of pocket on a job. I don't see why that should necessarily put the clients out for stuff they've not used. Sometimes, if I know the parts will be useful I only charge a portion of the cost of the kit I'm getting in for bits. Again, I try to be fair.

Edit: I might buy in a tac squad box for a weapon if I think the rest of it would be useful - I'd probably charge a going rate for parts if only one is used (bitzbox.co.uk is my go-to guy). If half the squad is going to be used as casualties or corpses on a diorama, I'd charge for half the squad.

Edit2: I usually specify a conversion budget on a project, which includes any parts to buy for use beyond a stock build, as well as actual chopping and greenstuffing time. If I have the spare parts available already I usually don't charge at all for them.

Of course sometimes you're left with bits that have no clear purpose - I did a Obyron destroyer lord a while back, the client paid for a destroyer and Obyron. Still have a destroyer torso (Obyron's legs were destroyed in the process) that I may use eventually for something, but no idea what right now. Sometimes you're left after part-wrangling with significant spares - I have a whole Warhound titan (yes, all parts, some in multiples) that could be built, albeit with significant work to repair casting problems.

So yah, that sounds reasonable, and the way it should be handled in all honesty. Giveing the client a price break on kits your keeping for bits is totally reasonable.

It's just btp pocketing a whole rhino as "left over bits" after makeing someone eals pay for the whole kit is outrageous.

 Lockark wrote:
Even after that their is a track record for them "forgetting" to ship it with the rest of your stuff, and then asking for you to pay additional in shipping for the "bitz" separate. They will not pay for their own "mistake". I recall this happening a few times to people that had projects with BTP. Many do no bother fighting/paying BTP even more just to get their bitz back and drop the issue.

"Hello {bank that issued my credit card}, I would like to report a case of fraud. Why yes, I would like to initiate a chargeback against BTP, thank you for being so helpful."

 M0ff3l wrote:
The repairs are done and the project is being moved to the painters floor. The next update I get will be pictures of the finished project and if I approve of them.

So this thread will go silent for a while I guess, but Im sure that when I get the pictures there will be a lot more discussing going on.

No test models? Just "We're done -ready to ship?" That seems awkward.

It sounds risky from a business point of view. Proof of concept is normally needed in most large projects. Btp assume the instruction sheet is gospel, and as I think I said earlier in my experience it very rarely is.

I have asked a mod to close the thread. This post was made to showcase how an average interaction works with BTP. As the very first sentence states I didnt want it turning into another hate bandwagon. Which probably half of you didnt read as most of you only now start raging at the 60$ conversion even though that was in the opening post from the start... Also I cant believe how unthankfull you people are, I make this thread to give an honest review from start to finish and you people criticize me for having BTP make my army etc. Its my money, they are my models and its my choice. So If there is anything you want to ask me related to how working with BTP was so far or any other questions about the general process with BTP, ask me now or PM me.

Coward

 Ustrello wrote:
Coward

Reported.

I dislike BTP as much as anyone but the guy is right, this thread is supposed to be an objective, neutral blog to document the BTP process. But you prats are just hijacking it to make it your own personal rant thread. Take it to Tenebre's thread.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
Coward

Reported.

I dislike BTP as much as anyone but the guy is right, this thread is supposed to be an objective, neutral blog to document the BTP process. But you prats are just hijacking it to make it your own personal rant thread. Take it to Tenebre's thread.

If it were truly meant to be objective and neutral, starting a discussion thread was a flawed idea from the get go. At least, one created before/during the event.

EDIT
Oh, and don't declare you're reporting someone for name calling and then call them names - kinda undermines your position.

 M0ff3l wrote:
I have asked a mod to close the thread. This post was made to showcase how an average interaction works with BTP. As the very first sentence states I didnt want it turning into another hate bandwagon. Which probably half of you didnt read as most of you only now start raging at the 60$ conversion even though that was in the opening post from the start... Also I cant believe how unthankfull you people are, I make this thread to give an honest review from start to finish and you people criticize me for having BTP make my army etc. Its my money, they are my models and its my choice. So If there is anything you want to ask me related to how working with BTP was so far or any other questions about the general process with BTP, ask me now or PM me.

If the $60 conversion involved buying a whole new rhino to get the parts, ask for them to send the rest of the rhino on sprue back to you with the army. You could easily resell the rest of the kit at like $20 to someone locally to you.

I'm outraged at the fact your just letting them pocket a whole rhino off of you.

 Ustrello wrote:
Coward

Uncalled for.....

 Lockark wrote:

 M0ff3l wrote:
I have asked a mod to close the thread. This post was made to showcase how an average interaction works with BTP. As the very first sentence states I didnt want it turning into another hate bandwagon. Which probably half of you didnt read as most of you only now start raging at the 60$ conversion even though that was in the opening post from the start... Also I cant believe how unthankfull you people are, I make this thread to give an honest review from start to finish and you people criticize me for having BTP make my army etc. Its my money, they are my models and its my choice. So If there is anything you want to ask me related to how working with BTP was so far or any other questions about the general process with BTP, ask me now or PM me.

If the $60 conversion involved buying a whole new rhino to get the parts, ask for them to send the rest of the rhino on sprue back to you with the army. You could easily resell the rest of the kit at like $20 to someone locally to you.

I'm outraged at the fact your just letting them pocket a whole rhino off of you.

 Ustrello wrote:
Coward

Uncalled for.....

a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.

He sits there and rags on tenebre and calls him out, then when it happens to him its all of a sudden too much and shuts it down.