Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**ImAGeek**

privateer4hire wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
Mymearan wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Every solution posted in this thread on how the game can work as a competitive game involves either changing or ignoring existing rules.

I hope everyone sees why that highlights the problems with the AoS rules more than any thing else.

Not really, because thats what every game does. You always need a separate tournament ruleset.

Erm, no? There's rules for the tournament but they very rarely change the actual rules for the game, it's more things like painting guidelines and what to do if people are cheating.

Erm, no? Most GW tourney stuff I've seen , if not all, changes the rules of army building by limiting this or that option, unbound, Forge World prohibitions/allowances, placing armies in Tiers so frex dwarves don't get rolled by Chaos (7th ed), etc.

Since army building (points) is the thing people are complaining about, having to set limits/handicaps is what's been done for ages with GW and other games.

Yeah the key point there is 'GW tourney stuff', other games don't require all that because their rules work sufficiently for tournaments without having to do loads of extra stuff to balance it.

**sarpedons-right-hand**

Norsed wrote:
sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Wait, it doesn't bother anyone that even the people excited by AoS are saying that the game can probably be fixed? I'm sorry, but that should not be the case. A 4 page rule set that doesn't work?

hmmmmmmm.....

Incorrect. *Some* people excited by AoS are saying that the game can be fixed. To me, it works fine as it is. The daft rules are all voluntary, so if you don't want to hop on one leg whilst rolling the dice upside down to get a minor bonus, you don't have to. And I'm quite happy playing a game without points. Been doing that for years.

I have said that if *you* don't like it, then you can fix it yourself or play something else. That doesn't mean the game is inherently bad, it just means you don't like it. Which is okay, everyone's different.

Also, I'd like to point out that if you really hate the lack of balance, they did say they were releasing a tournament book or something like that with a balancing system in it. We don't know if it'll be any good, but it's apparently coming. Think of it like Forces of Fantasy, Ravening Hordes or Warhammer Armies - which were all supplements for Warhammer editions 1 to 3 that enabled tournament play by using points. They say there will be no points in AOS ever, but they do say they'll have a balancing system.

You seem to be taking my post personally? Not sure why as that was only my second post in 261 pages.. As for the old Ravening Hordes lists and things, that's great. But to completely alienate a whole group of gamers who grew up with using a points system as a balancing tool? For me, personally, the complete lack of balance means that there really is no point. Even friendly games need some sort of balance. You might as well play Pontoon and be done with it...

**The Division Of Joy**

Kilkrazy wrote:
The Division Of Joy wrote:
Genuine question for the Mods. Some on here would like a thread to check rumours, see new releases. AoS will see huge amounts of new models.

Can I or someone that isn't just reposting smartass comments, memes and backslapping over the same jokes start a new thread? I'd like to have a thread where I can check, an see new stuff with a little bit of conversation. Bit like the Forgeworld thread. Not have to wade through pages of moaning. Ta!

We are going to reorganise things a bit once AOS actually launches.

A rumours thread is a good idea. Probably will have one.

Good news

This might as well go in discussions now anyway.

Worth pointing out that the next set of leaks will start today or tomorrow, so sooner the new thread is here the better.

**Yodhrin**

reds8n wrote:
That poor, poor intern.

Spend the summer working at GW HQ, it'll be fun he thought.

Or is this, perhaps, what happens to those people who spray themselves silver and stand very still on high streets ?

They evolve, a bit like Pokemon ?

GW's share prices have dropped. Again. Hmmmm... coincidence?

Think the whole Greece thing is going to have much impact than AoS.

Nah, it'll be solid gold, so they have another "Exceptional Cost" to put in the earnings report as an excuse for revenue continuing to decline

**Norsed**

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Norsed wrote:
sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Wait, it doesn't bother anyone that even the people excited by AoS are saying that the game can probably be fixed? I'm sorry, but that should not be the case. A 4 page rule set that doesn't work?

hmmmmmmm.....

Incorrect. *Some* people excited by AoS are saying that the game can be fixed. To me, it works fine as it is. The daft rules are all voluntary, so if you don't want to hop on one leg whilst rolling the dice upside down to get a minor bonus, you don't have to. And I'm quite happy playing a game without points. Been doing that for years.

I have said that if *you* don't like it, then you can fix it yourself or play something else. That doesn't mean the game is inherently bad, it just means you don't like it. Which is okay, everyone's different.

Also, I'd like to point out that if you really hate the lack of balance, they did say they were releasing a tournament book or something like that with a balancing system in it. We don't know if it'll be any good, but it's apparently coming. Think of it like Forces of Fantasy, Ravening Hordes or Warhammer Armies - which were all supplements for Warhammer editions 1 to 3 that enabled tournament play by using points. They say there will be no points in AOS ever, but they do say they'll have a balancing system.

You seem to be taking my post personally? Not sure why as that was only my second post in 261 pages.. As for the old Ravening Hordes lists and things, that's great. But to completely alienate a whole group of gamers who grew up with using a points system as a balancing tool? For me, personally, the complete lack of balance means that there really is no point. Even friendly games need some sort of balance. You might as well play Pontoon and be done with it...

I didn't take it personally. However, you made a statement that everyone that is excited by AoS is saying you have to fix the game to make it work. But that isn't true.

Also, you seem to have misunderstood something somewhere... a GW rep has said that there will be a balancing system coming out for the tournament players. It might not use points, but it will use something. Maybe it'll be better, maybe it'll be worse. Who knows. But points systems are not the only way of creating balance. My point about ravening Hordes etc is that it was released in much the same way as this appears to be - a supplement to allow tournament players to have balanced games. Give it time. Or not, that's your prerogative. But there's no point arguing with me about it.

**Herzlos**

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Where are the MASSIVE sigmar marine pictures from? You'd have thought this sort of PR stunt would be something a company would advertise and crow about to all and sundry.

I'm not sure what you mean here. That's the outside of Warhammer World, Nottingham. I guess it's now Sigmarworld.

Who took/published the photos, I have no idea.

**gorgon**

Xyxox wrote:
I wish I had been a fly on the wall at Mantic Games HQ this morning.

I'm sure you would have been in good company, considering all the crap products they make.

**pretre**

fellblade wrote:
So... has anyone done a post yet to compare rumor to reality? What was accurate, what was gak, and which sources are creditable (credible? incredible?)?
And once that's over, we could stick a fork in this thread and call it done.

Check my sig.

**Thraxas Of Turai**

I think we will know GW's true vision of the game when the individual boxes of Stormcast Eternals with Glaives/bows etc come out. The possibility of 5 man "pocket money" (well relatively) boxes for say £15/$24 US? But I doubt it when individual clam pack characters will be released for similar/greater amounts of money.

If the first releases are 10 man boxes for £30/$48US (or more?) then I think the GW may not see this as the skirmish sized game that most initial AOS battle reports seem to indicate is best suited for the rules.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
One of the pictures posted in this thread showed off all the models (or their electronic CAD brethren). One thing that it showed was that the Khorne Cultist guys didn't have to have a Standard and a Horn.

Is this correct? Is it possible to not have 2 standard bearers and 2 musicians?

Yep, that unit has 2 identical sprues. Both have options for standard and musician. So you can have 1 unit of 20 with Musician/standard, 2 units of 10 with Musician/standard or a unit of 20 with neither.

Very useful if you are buying multiple Goretide sprues online.

**gorgon**

Blacksails wrote:
By that very narrow definition, then sure, but its still goal post moving.

Your post was about GW organizing a tournament. The underlying point was about whether or not GW ever wanted a competitive scene.

As for organizing, I'm sure the overwhelming majority of people will feel that the likes of 'Ard Boyz is indeed 'official', seeing as it had GW money and rules support, and was put forward entirely by GW on their own initiative. The only difference between your definition and mine is the location. Pretty shaky argument if you ask me.

As for wanting a competitive scene, it'd be pretty hard to argue that even with your incredibly narrow perspective of 'official', 'Ard Boyz clearly demonstrates that for a time, GW was interested and supported competitive play through an 'official' tournament run across NA.

But if you'd prefer to feel smug about being technically correct by your own (arbitrary) definition, then yes, you're right.

To me, it seems fairly clear why GWUK was interested in squashing 'Ard Boyz. If GW is to sponsor something, it should be encouraging not just the sale of kits, but the sale of paint, overpriced brushes, glues and modeling tools, etc. And neither armies of sloppily assembled grey plastic nor the behaviors encouraged by a "hardcore" event for big prizes market the hobby in the way that GW desires.

Seems like a classic case of a sales force not being aligned with the company's strategic goals. It probably could have been adjusted instead of being axed, but c'est la vie.

**Blacksails**

gorgon wrote:

To me, it seems fairly clear why GWUK was interested in squashing 'Ard Boyz. If GW is to sponsor something, it should be encouraging not just the sale of kits, but the sale of paint, overpriced brushes, glues and modeling tools, etc. And neither armies of sloppily assembled grey plastic nor the behaviors encouraged by a "hardcore" event for big prizes market the hobby in the way that GW desires.

Seems like a classic case of a sales force not being aligned with the company's strategic goals. It probably could have been adjusted instead of being axed, but c'est la vie.

Which then raises the question of why set it up in the first place? As with all things GW, the more you dive into it, the more you're left scratching your head.

But yeah, an adjustment would have been infinitely better than axing it. If I were to don my armchair CEO armour, I'd think that properly supported 'official' (some people have differing opinions on official it seems) tournaments encourage sales, drive interest, cement communities, and can be used to gather valuable data pertaining to game balance and issues for FAQs/Errata.

But, I'm just a government employee, so business acumen is not my forte.

**Xyxox**

gorgon wrote:

Spoiler:

Blacksails wrote:
By that very narrow definition, then sure, but its still goal post moving.

Your post was about GW organizing a tournament. The underlying point was about whether or not GW ever wanted a competitive scene.

As for organizing, I'm sure the overwhelming majority of people will feel that the likes of 'Ard Boyz is indeed 'official', seeing as it had GW money and rules support, and was put forward entirely by GW on their own initiative. The only difference between your definition and mine is the location. Pretty shaky argument if you ask me.

As for wanting a competitive scene, it'd be pretty hard to argue that even with your incredibly narrow perspective of 'official', 'Ard Boyz clearly demonstrates that for a time, GW was interested and supported competitive play through an 'official' tournament run across NA.

But if you'd prefer to feel smug about being technically correct by your own (arbitrary) definition, then yes, you're right.

To me, it seems fairly clear why GWUK was interested in squashing 'Ard Boyz. If GW is to sponsor something, it should be encouraging not just the sale of kits, but the sale of paint, overpriced brushes, glues and modeling tools, etc. And neither armies of sloppily assembled grey plastic nor the behaviors encouraged by a "hardcore" event for big prizes market the hobby in the way that GW desires.

Seems like a classic case of a sales force not being aligned with the company's strategic goals. It probably could have been adjusted instead of being axed, but c'est la vie.

Shouldn't that be c'est la guerre?

**Albertorius**

Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
I think we will know GW's true vision of the game when the individual boxes of Stormcast Eternals with Glaives/bows etc come out. The possibility of 5 man "pocket money" (well relatively) boxes for say £15/$24 US? But I doubt it when individual clam pack characters will be released for similar/greater amounts of money.

If the first releases are 10 man boxes for £30/$48US (or more?) then I think the GW may not see this as the skirmish sized game that most initial AOS battle reports seem to indicate is best suited for the rules.

They're as big as terminators, though (well, bigger), so I'd say that a 5 man box for £30/$48US or more is not really out of the realm of possibility...

**Xyxox**

Albertorius wrote:
Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
I think we will know GW's true vision of the game when the individual boxes of Stormcast Eternals with Glaives/bows etc come out. The possibility of 5 man "pocket money" (well relatively) boxes for say £15/$24 US? But I doubt it when individual clam pack characters will be released for similar/greater amounts of money.

If the first releases are 10 man boxes for £30/$48US (or more?) then I think the GW may not see this as the skirmish sized game that most initial AOS battle reports seem to indicate is best suited for the rules.

They're as big as terminators, though (well, bigger), so I'd say that a 5 man box for £30/$48US or more is not really out of the realm of possibility...

Terminators are $50/box US.

**migooo**

gorgon wrote:
Xyxox wrote:
I wish I had been a fly on the wall at Mantic Games HQ this morning.

I'm sure you would have been in good company, considering all the crap products they make.

That's rather uncalled for no matter what he/she said in the past.

Mantic need to fix the squareish problems with the models they make. It's like GW stuff from the 80s and unfortunately it won't cut it.

I'm not sure how open they are to talking to customers though.

**Kanluwen**

Xyxox wrote:
Albertorius wrote:
Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
I think we will know GW's true vision of the game when the individual boxes of Stormcast Eternals with Glaives/bows etc come out. The possibility of 5 man "pocket money" (well relatively) boxes for say £15/$24 US? But I doubt it when individual clam pack characters will be released for similar/greater amounts of money.

If the first releases are 10 man boxes for £30/$48US (or more?) then I think the GW may not see this as the skirmish sized game that most initial AOS battle reports seem to indicate is best suited for the rules.

They're as big as terminators, though (well, bigger), so I'd say that a 5 man box for £30/$48US or more is not really out of the realm of possibility...

Terminators are $50/box US.

Yeah, and Sicarian Infiltrators/Ruststalkers are a bit bigger than Terminators(if weedier) but $46.

Trying to predict their prices based upon things like existing models is hopeless. You can generally get close if you get a pricetag from one locality, but even that isn't really working anymore.

**Thraxas Of Turai**

Fair call, I think I just had my old Fantasy hat on.

What may preclude that is the recent general lack of options in GW plastic kits, and indeed the lack of options listed in AOS Warscrolls. Then again GW pricing is all over the shop. Some similar 10 man kits such as Dark Elf Corsairs are half the price of the likes of the Dark Elf Executioners (admittedly that is a dual kit with the Black Guard).

Terminator style pricing would be a daft move for new players that have bought the Age of Sigmar boxed set as price shock may well set in. Sadly that has not stopped GW before.

**H.B.M.C.**

Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Yep, that unit has 2 identical sprues. Both have options for standard and musician. So you can have 1 unit of 20 with Musician/standard, 2 units of 10 with Musician/standard or a unit of 20 with neither.

Very useful if you are buying multiple Goretide sprues online.

Thank you for confirming. Only need one of each. Good to see I don't need to have two of each.

**Manchu**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Manchu wrote:
I'm really looking forward to buying this.
Oh yeah. I just can't wait to yell "For the Warmaster!" to get a re-roll to hit with my Palatine Blades.

TBH ... I would totally do that even if it didn't merit a re-roll! (always liked 40k a lot more than Fantasy)

**Relapse**

Blacksails wrote:
gorgon wrote:

To me, it seems fairly clear why GWUK was interested in squashing 'Ard Boyz. If GW is to sponsor something, it should be encouraging not just the sale of kits, but the sale of paint, overpriced brushes, glues and modeling tools, etc. And neither armies of sloppily assembled grey plastic nor the behaviors encouraged by a "hardcore" event for big prizes market the hobby in the way that GW desires.

Seems like a classic case of a sales force not being aligned with the company's strategic goals. It probably could have been adjusted instead of being axed, but c'est la vie.

Which then raises the question of why set it up in the first place? As with all things GW, the more you dive into it, the more you're left scratching your head.

But yeah, an adjustment would have been infinitely better than axing it. If I were to don my armchair CEO armour, I'd think that properly supported 'official' (some people have differing opinions on official it seems) tournaments encourage sales, drive interest, cement communities, and can be used to gather valuable data pertaining to game balance and issues for FAQs/Errata.

But, I'm just a government employee, so business acumen is not my forte.

They probably didn't foresee some of the problems that would come up, such as the controversy over the size of bases the first U.S. 'Ard Boyz winner used on his Bloodcrushers. I remember for a while after on these boards, there was a huge flap whether he cheated his way to a win or not because he used smaller bases. A friend of mine that was in the national finals told me about an opponent there who was a nice guy, but just brought sacks of unpainted Ork miniatures that he dumped on the table prior to set up and unpainted rhinos with paper plates glued to the top that he used for battle wagons.
Not really the kind of stuff, as a tournament organizer, you want to see representing one of your flagship games. They probably considered laying some rules down in future 'Ard Boyz, , but in the end decided the random nature of people wouldn't make it worth it, so scrapped the tournament.

**Blacksails**

Right, which goes back to what Gorgon and I agree on; changes and evolving the format would have been a better alternative then canning it the moment someone abuses a clearly poorly thought out format.

And again, it still leaves you scratching your head, like most things GW.

I'm sure we can all agree it was a poor format, and equally a poor decision to axe it never to replace it.

**Relapse**

Maybe, but think on all the controversy that happened at other tournaments besides this one. They probably just got tired of dealing with it. One hole gets plugged and another opens.

**pancakeonions**

Xyxox wrote:
pretre wrote:
GiraffeX wrote:
pretre wrote:
Melissia wrote:
So no more orcs and goblins.

Whelp, there goes my plans to buy a spider rider army.

When it comes to being a massive, depressing disappointment, GW never disappoints.

Orcs and Goblins are still there...

They are until they release the new version of the Orcs then the old will be discontinued

Your minis don't self-destruct when they make new models...

but they can look danged odd once the scale creep hits...

I don't care too much what they look like, but I do sure hope the OokOoks or whatever they're calling Orcs now are *smaller* not bigger. Current GW orcs are already danged odd looking...

**Blacksails**

Relapse wrote:
Maybe, but think on all the controversy that happened at other tournaments besides this one. They probably just got tired of dealing with it. One hole gets plugged and another opens.

Personally, that's not a good reason to quit doing something. It'll never be perfect, and indeed, looking at the ITC tourneys and what-not, they still get complaints and issues, but its a hell of a lot better than not running anything at all.

From GW's perspective, yeah, I'll buy that for them they just didn't want to put the effort in.

Either way, I feel that its a poor decision on GW's part all around. Good ideas, poor implementation.

**judgedoug**

EXCLUSIVE

WDW077-60 WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 77 (ENGLISH) White Dwarf 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 4
80-02-60 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (ENGLISH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
80-02-01 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (FRENCH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
96-10 STORMCAST ETERNALS LIBERATORS Plastic Box 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50
96-15 STORMCAST ETERNALS LORD-CELESTANT Plastic Clam 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-10 AGE OF SIGMAR COMBAT GAUGE Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-12 STORMCAST ETERNALS DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
65-13 KHORNE BLOODBOUND DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
- WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK LIMITED ED Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 130

**pretre**

judgedoug wrote:
EXCLUSIVE

WDW077-60 WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 77 (ENGLISH) White Dwarf 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 4
80-02-60 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (ENGLISH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
80-02-01 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (FRENCH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
96-10 STORMCAST ETERNALS LIBERATORS Plastic Box 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50
96-15 STORMCAST ETERNALS LORD-CELESTANT Plastic Clam 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-10 AGE OF SIGMAR COMBAT GAUGE Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-12 STORMCAST ETERNALS DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
65-13 KHORNE BLOODBOUND DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
- WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK LIMITED ED Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 130

Source? Cause that looks like a hardbound rulebook.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

A 130 book, and a 74 one?

That reeks of "BRB"... but we expressly know not to expect one yet, right?

**pretre**

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
A 130 book, and a 74 one?

That reeks of "BRB"... but we expressly know not to expect one yet, right?

The sources have been split both ways on that one. Mikhaila's trade sources say this is it (no brb). Some rumor mongers say this was a boardgame (obviously wrong) and others say this was the starter set (my belief).

**Xyxox**

And here we have the unveiling of the SigMarine statue and Sigmar Aquila:

This reeks of a CEO driven project where the CEO refused to budge on his vision.

**lord marcus**

gorgon wrote:
Xyxox wrote:
I wish I had been a fly on the wall at Mantic Games HQ this morning.

I'm sure you would have been in good company, considering all the crap products they make.

That is fairly rude to both the poster and a company that objectively makes good quality (manufacturing) miniatures, despite opinions of aesthetic