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You could just split the difference. I'd say that if you are only buying from the cheaper guys, that's probably pretty bad. However, if every time you decide to put models together at the GW store you purchased something there as well, I'd say it's okay. (and I don't mean buying a marine biker at GW after buying a Battleforce at the Independent store. Make things proportional).

 Peregrine wrote:
Nope, nothing wrong with it. It would be kind of TFG behavior to do it the other way around, taking up space at the independent store and never buying anything, but this is a GW store we're talking about. And GW stores deserve to be driven out of business.

Not sure if serious

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Not sure if serious

Entirely serious. GW stores are a cancer on the hobby, if they all closed overnight we'd be much better off.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Not sure if serious

Entirely serious. GW stores are a cancer on the hobby, if they all closed overnight we'd be much better off.

If that's really true, then I feel quite disturbed that you'd quite happily wipe out quite a few hundred peoples jobs (and in some cases careers) for the sake of petty spite over a hobby.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
If that's really true, then I feel quite disturbed that you'd quite happily wipe out quite a few hundred peoples jobs (and I some cases careers) for the sake of petty spite over a hobby.

GW stores are low-wage retail jobs, no better than working at a grocery store or walmart or whatever. They're easily replaceable jobs, and not careers at all. And GW stores have a very high turnover rate anyway thanks to their impossible sales quotas and constant opening/closing of stores, if you're counting on having a GW retail job longer than a few months you're making a significant mistake.

Also, there will always be independent stores. In fact, with GW's parasites gone from the industry, there will be even more room for independent game stores to exist. And those stores will be creating jobs, offsetting whatever is lost from ending GW's retail chain. Probably more than offsetting, even, since most independent store owners aren't stupid enough to try to run single-person stores.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I think there's a strong argument to be made for 'pay where you play.' If you don't support the store you actually play in, it's not going to stay open.

exactly. Unless you get s too good to pass discount, that's also my philosophy

You buy GW product to use in a GW store. As long as you don't shout at everyone buying directly from the store that they should get upstairs instead, no problem IMO. You are a GW customer. You assembling/painting minis there should be considered advertising to other shoppers in a sense.

Then again I have no store that I have any sort of connection with, so I don't care about them meeting sales targets. I have, however, bought stuff in a store with nice guys running it (GW Paris) to reward them (seriously, nice dudes, great tables, great display armies and a painting competition with an actual, never claimed Golden Demon as a prize...no wonder several French GD winners apparently frequent that store) OR made a point to not buy anything because one of the clerks is a pushy arsehole (GW Mannheim). Seriously, trying to start an argument when I tell them that I have Overkill preordered already and just came in to look at their display minis of it? Yeah, no.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
If that's really true, then I feel quite disturbed that you'd quite happily wipe out quite a few hundred peoples jobs (and I some cases careers) for the sake of petty spite over a hobby.

GW stores are low-wage retail jobs, no better than working at a grocery store or walmart or whatever. They're easily replaceable jobs, and not careers at all. And GW stores have a very high turnover rate anyway thanks to their impossible sales quotas and constant opening/closing of stores, if you're counting on having a GW retail job longer than a few months you're making a significant mistake.

Also, there will always be independent stores. In fact, with GW's parasites gone from the industry, there will be even more room for independent game stores to exist. And those stores will be creating jobs, offsetting whatever is lost from ending GW's retail chain. Probably more than offsetting, even, since most independent store owners aren't stupid enough to try to run single-person stores.

There's no such thing as an easily replaceable job, you'd be daft to think so. But careers can certainly happen. A friend of mine not too long ago had served in a store in South East England in Surrey for a number of years has recently progressed to a Nottingham head office job. So it's there if you work for it. Even if it is a low pay job, for some people, it gives them the opportunity to live while seeking something better. It's a good entry job for a while. Wishing for their demise is hardly a rational act.

I didn't even read it, but if you have to ask, probably it is.

After reading it... Yeah, I'd say that's wrong. You're buying from one store, then taking up space in another. It's not horribly wrong or anything-but it's definitely kinda a d move.

GW stores are not flgs you don't need to support them as you would an independent store that argument is bootless.

Your obligation is to find the best deal for yourself so get what discount you can GW already rips you off enough.

terry wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
"Low thing to do" - horse manure.

If GW choose to offer access to their painting or gaming tables without restriction, that's their choice, nobody is obligated to give them money if they also choose not to compete on price. If they want people to pay/buy something to use them, make that the policy and enforce it, otherwise both they and the rest of us should have nothing to say on the matter.

Of course it's the low thing to do. You don't buy a product from a store and then walk into a competing store and use their facilities to use the product. You should be kicked out for that. And as far as I was aware, it was there policy barring manager discretion. It's because of situations like this we lost the ability to use store supplied paints and materials.

Is it allowed? Then it's not a low thing to do, it's allowed. Is it not allowed? The issue is moot since it's not allowed and so won't happen.

There is no rational way to argue the OP's scenario would somehow be immoral because the scenario can only occur if his actions are considered permissable by the "competing store", and if they're fine with it what's it to do with you?

just because something is allowed, doesn't mean it isn't low

What?

This literally isn't even arguable, so I can't fathom how some of you have managed to convince yourself that it is.

If a store doesn't want people to use their tables, painting or gaming, with product purchased elsewhere they are entirely free and within their rights to make table use conditional on whatever terms they choose. They are entirely in control of the situation. So how on earth do you twist that so it's a customer's fault if they choose not to impose any conditions?

Particularly given we're talking about a GW store here, which are ostensibly supposed to be more than mere retail outlets, places designed to encourage and develop people's involvement with the hobby. I mean crikey, you guys realise that if we follow your hilarious "logic", then someone who gets GW models as a Christmas present that their family/friends bought from GW's own webstore online, they would be being "low" if they went in to a GW store for some painting lessons? That it would mean a regular GW customer who spends a fortune on the hobby would be being "low" if they went to the local GW's game night with their Death Korps of Krieg army from Forgeworld?

Get a haud o' yersels.

Herzlos wrote:And to be fair, GW are still making about 60% of the retail price on the stuff you bought upstairs, so it's not as if they lose out.

The guy running the GW won't see any of it though, or whoever decides to close the stores.

While you may be giving "it" to GW, the person running the store is human. As a few posts said, the turn over rate is high, the quotas are high, so it's already hard and stressful to work at GW. Thing is, as I said, it's a human person "average Joe" who just lost a sale and now might loose his job.

So yes it's a low move, "Hi, I just saved some pennies, or even $50 but I am going to use your store and now you have a good chance at loosing your job because of lost sale(s)".

If that is not a low move, then I don't know what is then.

Overdose wrote:
So currently I have a small dilemma.
I've recently returned to the hobby and was able to find a local GW store nearby with great staff and nice atmosphere.

In the same building one floor up there is a hobby store focused mainly on TCG like MTG but also have the GW products except at a cheaper price (10%).

Now I haven't actually been to the other hobby store but I've heard that it doesn't support the tabletop hobby that much(meaning no paint tables etc.).

IF I was to buy products from upstairs and take them downstairs to paint and assemble etc etc, would this be considered 'wrong'?

I mean 10% on small stuff ain't a lot but with the bigger boxed products 10% discount seems too good to not consider.

What do you guys think?
Any opinions?

I would get the deals as long as I could. Your store upstairs is living on borrowed time...

Others have said it, There is no right or wrong, but If you do it in such a way as to rub the GW stores face in it, you indirectly give the redshirts an issue that will put them in a position of possibly getting fired/ replaced.

If you do it smart, you go in with the stuff from upstairs in the GW boxes, in a GW bag. put together, paint and play, and go about your business. If you go upstairs to LGS#2, buy your models, paint or whatever, and then run downstairs and go into the store with the competitions bag/ product, and drop it down and start working on it/ unboxing, etc. you open up an issue for the Redshirts that they honestly will send you packing for.

Yes, your going to get a load of gak, expect it. BUT if you go in with the GW bag, with the GW stuff in said bag, they won't give you any static. (You heard it hear first.)

-

 Grot 6 wrote:

Overdose wrote:
So currently I have a small dilemma.
I've recently returned to the hobby and was able to find a local GW store nearby with great staff and nice atmosphere.

In the same building one floor up there is a hobby store focused mainly on TCG like MTG but also have the GW products except at a cheaper price (10%).

Now I haven't actually been to the other hobby store but I've heard that it doesn't support the tabletop hobby that much(meaning no paint tables etc.).

IF I was to buy products from upstairs and take them downstairs to paint and assemble etc etc, would this be considered 'wrong'?

I mean 10% on small stuff ain't a lot but with the bigger boxed products 10% discount seems too good to not consider.

What do you guys think?
Any opinions?

I would get the deals as long as I could. Your store upstairs is living on borrowed time...

Others have said it, There is no right or wrong, but If you do it in such a way as to rub the GW stores face in it, you indirectly give the redshirts an issue that will put them in a position of possibly getting fired/ replaced.

If you do it smart, you go in with the stuff from upstairs in the GW boxes, in a GW bag. put together, paint and play, and go about your business. If you go upstairs to LGS#2, buy your models, paint or whatever, and then run downstairs and go into the store with the competitions bag/ product, and drop it down and start working on it/ unboxing, etc. you open up an issue for the Redshirts that they honestly will send you packing for.

Yes, your going to get a load of gak, expect it. BUT if you go in with the GW bag, with the GW stuff in said bag, they won't give you any static. (You heard it hear first.)

Go into a store without a recipet that you didn't buy it from? For what ever reason since it's a one man store, 1) the person should know he didn't buy it from him 2) if by chance the employee doesn't know he bought it, but sees you "unboxing" (put it in quotes since I am assuming you are meaning taking the shrink wrap off) the product he bought and knowing he didn't sell this kit to anyone, he can consider it theft. Then you have to explain and SHOW proof that you bought it upstairs then explain to why you didn't buy it from him. Yes it is understandable you want it cheaper, but then explain why are you using his store instead of going home to paint/model what ever.

See some people say GW needs to adapt and offer services if people are buying from other stores. Thing is, GW is offering a service. A place to paint and model. Or at least this store is. So why should the original poster get this service for free especially since the store he bought it from doesn't offer this service.

After all OP put yourself in the GW workers shoes. How would you feel someone comes in and didn't buy anything from you but using the stores paints and what not, and now you might not have a job because sales are going else where.

There is a reason why people say "pay where you play", or in your case "pay where you model". Now here is a question. Why are you going to the GW store instead of home to do your modelling and painting?

 Yodhrin wrote:
That it would mean a regular GW customer who spends a fortune on the hobby would be being "low" if they went to the local GW's game night with their Death Korps of Krieg army from Forgeworld?

That's the opinion of the guy who runs the local GW store. It's really frustrating.

Davor wrote:
So yes it's a low move, "Hi, I just saved some pennies, or even $50 but I am going to use your store and now you have a good chance at loosing your job because of lost sale(s)".

Using someone's store doesn't cost them anything, and you're only buying the $50 thing once. If you buy at the GW store then the independent store doesn't get the $50 sale, and maybe someone there loses a job. You aren't obligated to buy extra stuff as a charity donation, this is a business we're talking about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davor wrote:
So why should the original poster get this service for free especially since the store he bought it from doesn't offer this service.

Because they can. GW is the company that decided to offer gaming/painting/etc space without charging extra to use it, people have no obligation to donate to GW like it's a charity. And any GW product you buy is still giving money to GW, so why shouldn't you be able to use GW's space to work on your GW product?

 Peregrine wrote:

Davor wrote:
So yes it's a low move, "Hi, I just saved some pennies, or even $50 but I am going to use your store and now you have a good chance at loosing your job because of lost sale(s)".

Using someone's store doesn't cost them anything, and you're only buying the $50 thing once. If you buy at the GW store then the independent store doesn't get the $50 sale, and maybe someone there loses a job. You aren't obligated to buy extra stuff as a charity donation, this is a business we're talking about.

So why isn't the other store offering this service if it doesn't cost them anything?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davor wrote:
So why should the original poster get this service for free especially since the store he bought it from doesn't offer this service.

Because they can. GW is the company that decided to offer gaming/painting/etc space without charging extra to use it, people have no obligation to donate to GW like it's a charity. And any GW product you buy is still giving money to GW, so why shouldn't you be able to use GW's space to work on your GW product?

Just because they can doesn't mean it's right. A lot of things people do because they can, doesn't make it right or morale. While this is way overboard, using the "I can excuse" is no excuse. People can murder. People can steal. Does this make it morale or right? So no, just because someone can is still a low move.

It's only because it's a GW store you are saying this is ok. How about we turn this around. How about if the OP buys from the GW downstairs but has no gaming table but then the OP goes upstairs to play at the non GW store if it had gaming tables. Is this ok then? Or are you just saying because it's GW and they deserve this because GW is the Evil Empire?

Davor wrote:
So yes it's a low move, "Hi, I just saved some pennies, or even $50 but I am going to use your store and now you have a good chance at loosing your job because of lost sale(s)".

Using someone's store doesn't cost them anything, and you're only buying the $50 thing once. If you buy at the GW store then the independent store doesn't get the $50 sale, and maybe someone there loses a job. You aren't obligated to buy extra stuff as a charity donation, this is a business we're talking about.

It costs them work time dealing with a person who won't be buying anything but when they could be focusing on a customer who could be buying something.
It costs them store space where they could be teaching a potential new player how to paint and model.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davor wrote:
So why should the original poster get this service for free especially since the store he bought it from doesn't offer this service.

Because they can. GW is the company that decided to offer gaming/painting/etc space without charging extra to use it, people have no obligation to donate to GW like it's a charity. And any GW product you buy is still giving money to GW, so why shouldn't you be able to use GW's space to work on your GW product?

I think I know the store you're talking about - just down the road from the QVB? Haven't been there for a while, but I'm pretty sure the GW stock from the hobby store upstairs is pretty limited, so in practice it mightn't matter much depending what you wanted to buy.

However, I buy quite a bit online from the Combat Company (mainly because they sell a lot of hobby materials that you can't buy from GW, like plasticard, airbrush stuff, etc.) and they have a 10% discount on GW products, which is useful for the larger items. However, I still buy from my local GW on an ad hoc basis or for the smaller things (like tac squads, HQs and paints). I figure it's a kind of fair way to do things, supporting both an independent and my local GW.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
It costs them work time dealing with a person who won't be buying anything but when they could be focusing on a customer who could be buying something.
It costs them store space where they could be teaching a potential new player how to paint and model.

No, it really doesn't. The two seconds it takes for the GW manager to greet you is not "costing them work time". You are, presumably, not standing on the table and asking the manager a hundred inane questions. If you were, my answer would be different. A random person coming in to paint does not suddenly create an infinite attention vortex.
At my local GW, I have never, ever seen the latter scenario occur. Even when four newbies at once come in, and the modelling space is almost full, the manager still manages to teach them adequately. And remember, every single slot in the P/M space is very rarely full due to people generally not coming in all day to paint. Most people either buy something and leave after a bit, or walk around and chat, or play games.

Because you didn't support the store you got it from. Why should they let you treat the store as a personal workspace when you're not helping the staff hit their targets and make sure they stay open?

Marketing. Full tables attract people. If a store is empty, it will get less business. If there are people painting, and people can walk up and see what they're doing and eat the eye candy, they're more likely to take an interest in the hobby. By the logic you're displaying, I should be feeling guilty for coming in with my GW models, because I keep them in a KR case, or paint them with W+N brushes, or prime them with Army Painter. You are attempting to use the logic that just because you didn't devote every step of the process to that one store, you're not welcome.

It is your hobby and your money, you are not obligated to buy where you play. I find it really strange that GW both distributes and sell their own product in their own store. The FLGS has to buy their product from GW at a discount and then resells it to cover their costs and overhead, whereas the GW store makes a much larger profit that goes straight to them. Yes they have overhead costs for the store but in the end they make a greater profit than your FLGS.

Thanks for all the opinions and thoughts guys.

One thing I didn't explain enough in the OP was that I didn't plan to use the GW store's tools and paints for my stuff (also I don't think GW allows people to use the store paint like they did before)

I would obviously take all my kits and paints to do my things.

And obviously I wouldn't buy something from upstairs and then run down back to GW unpack the stuff and start building.

Some may ask why not just paint at home?
Personally I like painting and modelling while chatting with people and looking at what other people are doing for painting tips etc.

Oh and to add, would using a W+N series paintbrushes or non-GW equipment at a GW store draw attention in a bad way?

Sorry if my questions seem obvious but I've never had a situation like this before and I just want to be careful if you guys get where I'm coming from.

i think spikey bits did a review on paintbrushes and the W+N are fairly equal to GW's one line of brushes. If someone gives you flack over that tell them to go pound sand.

Can you only use GW paintbrushes in GW stores? It'd be "low" to not buy what GW sell, after all. Gotta support that corporate behemoth.

As I said before, no. I use my W+N paintbrushes, B&J brush soap, and random independent hobby tools at my store. I've never got flak unless I recommend them over GW tools in store, because that actually hurts business.

Davor wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:

Overdose wrote:
So currently I have a small dilemma.
I've recently returned to the hobby and was able to find a local GW store nearby with great staff and nice atmosphere.

In the same building one floor up there is a hobby store focused mainly on TCG like MTG but also have the GW products except at a cheaper price (10%).

Now I haven't actually been to the other hobby store but I've heard that it doesn't support the tabletop hobby that much(meaning no paint tables etc.).

IF I was to buy products from upstairs and take them downstairs to paint and assemble etc etc, would this be considered 'wrong'?

I mean 10% on small stuff ain't a lot but with the bigger boxed products 10% discount seems too good to not consider.

What do you guys think?
Any opinions?

I would get the deals as long as I could. Your store upstairs is living on borrowed time...

Others have said it, There is no right or wrong, but If you do it in such a way as to rub the GW stores face in it, you indirectly give the redshirts an issue that will put them in a position of possibly getting fired/ replaced.

If you do it smart, you go in with the stuff from upstairs in the GW boxes, in a GW bag. put together, paint and play, and go about your business. If you go upstairs to LGS#2, buy your models, paint or whatever, and then run downstairs and go into the store with the competitions bag/ product, and drop it down and start working on it/ unboxing, etc. you open up an issue for the Redshirts that they honestly will send you packing for.

Yes, your going to get a load of gak, expect it. BUT if you go in with the GW bag, with the GW stuff in said bag, they won't give you any static. (You heard it hear first.)

Go into a store without a recipet that you didn't buy it from? For what ever reason since it's a one man store, 1) the person should know he didn't buy it from him 2) if by chance the employee doesn't know he bought it, but sees you "unboxing" (put it in quotes since I am assuming you are meaning taking the shrink wrap off) the product he bought and knowing he didn't sell this kit to anyone, he can consider it theft. Then you have to explain and SHOW proof that you bought it upstairs then explain to why you didn't buy it from him. Yes it is understandable you want it cheaper, but then explain why are you using his store instead of going home to paint/model what ever.

See some people say GW needs to adapt and offer services if people are buying from other stores. Thing is, GW is offering a service. A place to paint and model. Or at least this store is. So why should the original poster get this service for free especially since the store he bought it from doesn't offer this service.

After all OP put yourself in the GW workers shoes. How would you feel someone comes in and didn't buy anything from you but using the stores paints and what not, and now you might not have a job because sales are going else where.

There is a reason why people say "pay where you play", or in your case "pay where you model". Now here is a question. Why are you going to the GW store instead of home to do your modelling and painting?

I'm going to say- No. Your wrong, and I'll tell you why.

GW does not care where you got the model from, it is a GW model at the end of the day. You are in a GW store, thereby helping to "Spread the word". They ( the worker Bees and Manager) care when you bring in a competitor's bag/ alternative game system and use their facilities. Your ideas that you discuss there in your response to me are arbitrarily your belief system. Players are under no obligation what-so-ever to "Pay where they play, model where they play, pay for the facilities.

GW has, at this time, unless they are built up a little differently in other locations- a small area to paint and model, a table or two to three, (at most) to play, a demo game area, and walls with products, and a register area with a couple of rows with books/ paints, modeling supplies, etc. Some things they may or may not have, and you are welcome to look them up on the computer terminal/ area with the catalog, where you can order them from your local store.

GW redshirts, ( or are they blue now?) are in the store to push product, GW product. If you come in with a GW bag, have a little conversation, and banter, and ask, they will likely let you go ahead and paint and model in their area, or play or hang out, as long as you want to, because you are a living, breathing sales tool of the product, showing OTHER people that you are a fan, and buy the products. In other words- They don't care. You are there, with the products, and you are another player/ modeler/ sales tool that can help to pimp out the product.

I know- because I asked, by the way.

They didn't have anything to say, but I used common courtesy, and took my GW stuff into a GW store and built and painted in their modeling and painting area, and even went so far as to trade some bits.... While we discussed the upcoming chaos stuff, the new cultists at the time, and the inner workings of the game. It isn't about being confrontational, either. Its about the modeling, playing, and interaction aspect, because once upon a time, GW pushed their store as "Gaming Centers".

Want to know another good thing for you to do? Not just bring your own stuff in to build, paint, and play, but to come in, and even donate some of your old paints, or bits.
( shudder...ohhh...) It goes a LONG way to have a good relationship with your local community, no matter what store you buy from, because all of the stores are interactive, and you know/ meet people who know each other and you.

The rest of your post pretty much answers itself. GW is pushing game systems, they aren't for TCG's, or RPG's, though I would wonder if the 40K RPG system would be cool, or old school fantasy, their tables are like three or four feet by five, or six. Not really enough room for expanded play or large scale awesomeness, but enough for a couple of one offs, or some interaction with your mates.

I'm saying that they don't care, but also that you shouldn't make it a point to rub your local GW employees face in it if you get a thing from somewhere else, out of common courtesy. We call that type of action- Biting the hand that feeds.

 n0t_u wrote:
If this is good games sydney they were there before the gw moved into the basement like space under them if I remember right so don't feel bad. That being said I don't play in either, the GW isn't local enough for me to play in thus I haven't really set foot in it, but I have been to that GG to pick up stuff a couple of times like dice or deck boxes.

Um, other way around, dude. The GW moved their store into that downstairs location when upstairs was a SF bookshop called "Galaxy" (I was there for the opening of both - GW moved across from the Hilton basement arcade because they were redeveloping the hotel site). It was where their FIRST "Battle bunker" in the country was located back in the late 90s. It also picked up the crowd from another store when the Matraville store closed (just prior to Apocalypse first coming out).

After Galaxy relocated, it became a music store, and after THAT closed down, GG started up in that venue as an expansion from their only other CBD store (railway square). Marty from that store got his start up here as a local boy. Props to Marty for building that crowd up.

Hmmm, I have an odd question to add - why paint at the GW?

Me, I paint all sorts of places, including fast food restaurants. (And run games in the food court at the mall.)

I am generally of the 'Pay Where You Play' mindset - and that includes eating at the place where I am painting.

The Auld Grump

How is this even still a discussion? The OP clearly states that the store he can get the discount from DOESNT HAVE A PLACE TO PLAY - there isn't a moral grey area here, it's a non-issue because both stores aren't equal in that regard.

If they were, 'play where you pay' would actually be applicable.

I would say that if you bought it from the GW store, then build it there. That's the polite thing to do.

If you like the atmosphere and staff of the GW why turn them sour against you?

But by all means, don't be afraid to shop where you can save the money, or better yet, find the model you want. The store above doesn't sound like he has much interest in the game, does that reflect in the variety of his GW models?