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So the head of GW dies of a heart attack and his son with a real bad comb over comes into the board meeting and states that "you have to trim the fat. I'm yanking 5 armies from the 40K line...today, you guys figure it out". And just as he is leaving the board room, he turns and remarks "And no Bill, marine supplements count as a single choice, not one each....and I'm talking the ones from last year, not the ones coming out the next few months. get it done".

Who do you drop?

Me....

GSC
Custodes
Harlequins (even though I love them)
Marine supplements (Ultras, RG, IF, Sallies, WS, IH)
And....probably between TSons and DG.... I'd have to go Tsons.

Ynnari

Custodes

DW

GK

Harlequins


Custodies leaving terra for battlefields has only been the fluff since they were released in 40k, to justify the release. DW and GK would better fit their own fluff in a skirmish game than in base 40k. Harlies should have remained in the elites section of the Eldar/DE codices.

Grey Knights

DeathWatch

Custodes

Ynnari

Harlequins

I look at the sales data, identify the 5 armies that are most constistantly underperforming and get rid of them, the pragmatic busniess decision. because that's what my boss and his shareholders are going to want.

Imperial Knights
Chaos Knights
Genestealer Cults
Custodes
Ynnari

BrianDavion wrote:
I look at the sales data, identify the 5 armies that are most constistantly underperforming and get rid of them, the pragmatic busniess decision. because that's what my boss and his shareholders are going to want.

Ah, we have discovered the one who always stands by himself at the office Xmas parties....got it!

Are we talking Codices? If so, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, and Ynnari (does that really count as a Codex though?)
So much mishandling and bloat across the board though it's hard to choose.

hadn't really considered Ynnari an army....but yeah, they'd make my list too.

 Canadian 5th wrote:
Imperial Knights
Chaos Knights
Genestealer Cults
Custodes
Ynnari

OOOOH good point with the Knights. I would eliminate one of the codices for sure because there's no reason we couldn't have a single codex covering both the good and evil ones.

I would hate for anything to be removed because that's never cool.
However if I had to..

Custodes - Coz its silly how they would waste their time fighting any ol mooks on any ol random planet.. Makes sense for HH where Emps is still kicking about giving orders but not for 40k where terra can be attacked at any moment..

Chaos Deamons - Should be part of chaos SM/ belong in AOS

Ynnari & Harlies Should be rolled into CWE - I don't count Ynnari as an army.. its 3 named characters that unlock a specialist detachment basicaly so hardly can be called an army...

SM supplaments - All of them... Deathwatch..

GK - Because...

#1 - Marine Supplements. These factions can survive just fine with the main book and leaves us with only having to really yank 4 more.

#2 - Deathwatch. Not yet their own supplement from before, and yes were their own faction. Chop and they're in the main codex now.

#3 - Ynnari. Sadly, these can be easily slotted into existing Aeldari codexes, just as Harlequins used to be slotted into both Eldar and Dark Eldar codexes. 3 left.

#4 - Death Guard. We're trimming back Marines, we gotta trim back the fat equally. So long Death Guard. You just Chaos Marines again.

#5 - Thousand Sons. Same thing as Death Guard.



If I had to go further so I was actually removing models from being sold...

- Ynnari
- T'au
- Deathwatch
- Agents of the Imperium (Assassins, Sisters of Silence, Custodes, Inquisitors)
- Knights (Chaos & Imperium)

Knights
Other Knights
Custodes
Grey Knights
Ynnari

Bonus- the not-an-armies: Inquisition, Sisters of Silence, Assassins.

Basically all the stuff that's too small and overly specific for the wargame. Plus Ynnari for being a couple characters and a plot point that never went anywhere.

Primaris
Custodes
Deathwatch
Knights
Ynnari

TAU
TAU
TAU
TAU
GSC (just reintegrate them into nids)

Consolidate instead of cutting. Knights->AdMech, GSC->Tyranids, Daemons->CSM. Scrap Ynnari, and do one "Talons of the Emperor" book for Custodes, Inquisition, Sisters of Silence, and Assassins.

Considering I haven't played since 5th and only recently got a codex newer than 6th, my opinion may be a little skewed. However, I will go off what I know of the past lore, what I have heard about newer things, and my opinions of how things are being handled based on that knowledge. To be honest, the first thing I would ask is if we are just getting rid of the codex as a separate army and will continue to utilize the effort our sculptors put into them and recoup the funds already sunk into their creation, marketing, etc. If yes, then my second question would be if I could only eliminate 5 or if I could do more. If yes, my suggestion would be this:

1: Roll every single SM codex/supplement beyond the base into a single book containing their condensed rules.
2. Create a new codex called Heretics and Renegades and place the GSC in there along with proper rules for Renegade Guard (I want mah feking Chaos Guard already, please! They've existed in the lore for longer than most armies and still no proper rules that I know of. I think there were FW rules for a bit while they had some models for them, but...). Can easily expand this to include rules allowing use of popular models from their other games (cough cough Necromunda Gangs cough cough). I know that last part makes less sense lore wise, but it would be a good crossover of the models and technically they don't have to be under the same names. I for one already plan to have them do double duty as cultists anyway, if for no other sake than variety from the 5 model mono-pose pack.
3. Roll the Ynnari and Harlequins into a single, small supplement called Unaligned Eldar that can be used with both Craftworld and Drukari units. From what I've heard and read, Ynnari are supposed to be a faction that is slowly bringing the two sides together and recruiting from each. This is cool and a great way to bring about a big change for the Eldar race, including introducing new and improved units in a way that make sense lore wise. What better way to expand the Eldar list than by mixing the two under a united banner and bringing about better units from the fusion. Eventually, the Eldar could become a single faction book under Ynnari with rules for the two current factions and Harlequins kept separate in a combined supplement instead, in the same way as SM. That should keep the Eldar/DE purists somewhat happy while allowing more units for each, as each new Ynnari unit could be labeled as more closely aligned with one side to allow their use in a pure Eldar/DE army.
4. Roll the Traitor Legions into one supplement in the same way as the SM chapters. Also, finish the other big names and put them in there too. Add in the Chaos Knights as Heavy Support/Lord of War options for all Chaos factions. Yes, including Daemons as it is not unheard of for a Chaos Knight to be inhabited by a Daemon spirit like any other Daemon Engine created by mortal hands, and they need more ranged options anyway in my opinion.
5. Eliminate GK and DW as armies and turn them Elite choices for all Imperial factions as by the lore I know they are supposed to be elite soldiers. The GK are supposed to be small elite squads of anti-demon psykers. The DW are supposed to be elite hand-picked squads with the express purpose of fulfilling dangerous missions requiring a variety of skills. Roll the Imperial Knights, Assassins, and Inquisition into the same supplement to be allowed use with any Imperial faction as Heavy Support/Lord of War, Elite, and Elite/HQ choices respectively. This could also be expanded to include new rules for Rouge Traders, Adventurers, Mercenaries, and Bounty Hunters as well, creating yet more crossover with their other popular games. Could try to throw in Law Enforcement Forces as well, but I'm not sure how different not-Palanite Enforcers would be from Scions in the small scale war style of 40k. Maybe beef them up a bit and make them an Elite choice for Inquisition or IG led detachments? I guess that would make them like Scions with different weapon and equipment choices.
6. Eliminate the Custodes. They don't make a lick of sense abandoning the Emperor on Terra after 10000 years just to kick it on random planets. Since they've already got models, maybe they could join the GK and DW as an elite choice. Small elite forces following specific directives from the Emperor (or whomever speaks for him now). If Sisters of Silence is a separate faction, same thing.

Again, this is just my personal opinion based on what I know.

Is it just the codices or the model lists associated with those armies?

Because codices would be REALLY easy and could be kept in the Imperium, and maybe Chaos.

Imperium would be condensed to Marines, Guard, and Inquisition. Knights and Mechanicus would go in to Guard, and Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Custodes, Assassins, and both Sisters would join the Inquisition.

I honestly rather LIKE that Chaos Marines are starting to be more spread out and joining up with their Daemons. I think it works better than trying to stuff it all in to one book, but if we're really looking at trimming the fat, gotta go back in time and merge the Sons, Guard, and Knights back in to the Marines proper, and the Daemons have all the Daemons.

For Xenos, the Harlequins, GSC, and Ynnari are the only outliers by having other races they are part of, but if one REALLY wanted to trim things down, combine all the Eldar in to one Ynnari book and be done with it as they reconcile their differences enough to deal with the Galaxy and Slaanesh. GSC are TECHNICALLY part of the Tyrannid army anyway as much as Guard and Marines are part of the Army of the Imperium, so that's an easy fold in.

At end count that's 3+2+5 = 10 total armies remaining at maximum trimming without actually canceling current model production lines and still giving some space in the Imperium and Chaos.. Of course, it could be trimmed further with even bigger books to have all of Imperium in one giant book and all of Chaos in one big book for a minimum of 7 total armies.

That's down from 6 Marine, 5 Imperium, 5 Chaos, and 8 Xenox codices currently on sale at GW's website. Do note that leaves out a few groups of each section like he Sisters of Silence which are currently not on the site.

 Da-Rock wrote:
Grey Knights
DeathWatch
Custodes
Ynnari
Harlequins

I love my Deathwatch, and I had a Deathwatch army before it was cool GW gave them an actual Codex, but even I can't argue with this list.

Custodes
Ynnari
Harliquins
Deathwatch

And one of these two:
Imperial Knights
Chaos Knights

But fear not! This would only be "on paper".
Custodes would be shifted to FW for use in 30k - but they'd have rules to allow their 40k use. Plastic models would be discontinued though in favor of FW resin. Because we gotta present the illusion.....

Ynnari & Harliquins would be reprinted in both the Craftworld & Drukari codex books.
Deathwatch would become pages in the general marine codex.
The knights would be combined into one book.

Both knights. Banish them to their own gamemode alongside all superheavies. (over 2000 pts)


GK DW and supplements (make a differing list containing SM book with the correct customizability ffs not that bloody difficult.
Curb minifactions that have no buissnes existing Like special flake legions and harlequins and ynnari, same as before consolidate, seperate lists and options within a dex.


there even more curbed

 bullyboy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I look at the sales data, identify the 5 armies that are most constistantly underperforming and get rid of them, the pragmatic busniess decision. because that's what my boss and his shareholders are going to want.

Ah, we have discovered the one who always stands by himself at the office Xmas parties....got it!

no you've just discovered the one who actually took the time to answer what he would do rather then use this as a chance to bash his least favorite armies.

BrianDavion wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I look at the sales data, identify the 5 armies that are most constistantly underperforming and get rid of them, the pragmatic busniess decision. because that's what my boss and his shareholders are going to want.

Ah, we have discovered the one who always stands by himself at the office Xmas parties....got it!

no you've just discovered the one who actually took the time to answer what he would do rather then use this as a chance to bash his least favorite armies.

These are not mutually exclusive.

Consolidation route here:

- Ynnari and Harlys into Craftworld and Dark Eldar.
- GSC into Tyranids.
- GK, DW, Custodes, Inquisition, Assassins into "Imperial Agents".
- Chaos Knights and Imperial Knights into Knights or CSM / Admech respectively
- Consolidate SM supplements into one big book.

I'm taking this as completely scrapping the army, not just getting rid of codexes because that's just too easy. Similarly, I'm not taking supplements as full armies, because that just means that I could name all the Marine bloat and go back to just Codex Space Marines and be done with it.


In that case, the first two would be Imperial and Chaos Knights. Both are armies that just don't fit the scale of the game and are incredibly difficult to balance in the game. I don't really see a way to make them work well because they are the ultimate skew that makes it a necessity to boost the antitank firepower in the game to ensure that they can be handled by a normal army. At the same time, that means that normal tanks and the like just melt to any halfway decent army. If you can kill a knight in a turn, you can also kill several tanks.

With the first two out of the way, it becomes a little more complicated. But I think I would get rid of Custodes. They're the elite bodyguard of the Emperor and somehow, all of them have to be absolutely super (honestly, I think that the tendency to make everything better and stronger is getting downright silly in the game). They don't really fit normal battlefields, and so, they go away.

The same basically goes for Grey Knights. Of course, they have more history in the game, but within their concept, there isn't really much in the way of space for a whole army. A single unit that can be allied in to other imperial armies would be more than enough. Right now, the whole army consists of stretching what is a single-unit concept over half a dozen of them.

So, we have to get rid of one more army. And with pain in my heart, I would go for Harlequins. They might be one of my two armies, but they are incredibly specialistic and in many ways, are an expression of the desire to make everything more and more elite.

1. Chaos Daemons - I'd instead integrate them into God-based books, which also include God-based chaos marine factions and renegade guard. I think we can all agree that Chaos Daemons have never quite worked as a universal faction.
2. Custodes - I'd rather have an Agents of the Imperium list that includes Inquisition etc.
3. Grey Knights - as above, don't need a whole book for themselves
4. Thousand Sons - my beloved army would be wrapped up into a Tzeentch book
5. Death Guard - packed in with big papa

I ignored supplements - I uniformly would get rid of them.

Marine Supplements
Dark Angels and Blood Angels (OP seems to differ between the two, get rid of the Marine bloat!)
Inquisition (GW forgot them and we can, too. Put Inquisitors back into DW/GK/SOB Codex)
Assassins (Don't belong in 40K anyway, or should just be elite choices in Imperial Guard, maybe, with rules not better than, say, a Death Jester)

Hmm, hard to come up with a 5th.
I guess Imperial Knights because their models are ugly. Put them into the Admech-Codex if you like, but don't make them a standalone army.

I would combine anything in wearing power armor into Codex: Imperial Power Armor and Codex: Traitor Power Armor.

 Togusa wrote:
I would combine anything in wearing power armor into Codex: Imperial Power Armor and Codex: Traitor Power Armor.

and would you provide a free forklift to transport that sizable tome?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
I would combine anything in wearing power armor into Codex: Imperial Power Armor and Codex: Traitor Power Armor.

and would you provide a free forklift to transport that sizable tome?

That sizeable it wouldn't be, considering how easy it was to banish all the legions and warbands into 1 dex in the past, might aswell do the same for SM
IF only to let SM players experience that and bitterness longstanding CSM fans have.

Ok jokes aside, depending on the setup, aka read customizability of units, you easily* could do this


* if you are willing to invest the time and actually playtest, balance and use your brain more then 5 minutes per entry but that costs time and time is a ressources investment that costs money and why bother investing more money when you could just sell what 8? supplements separately and a dex to gain that sweet swett £$Euro whatevs, screw the gamebalance anyway.

Blastaar wrote:
Ynnari

Custodes

DW

GK

Harlequins


Custodies leaving terra for battlefields has only been the fluff since they were released in 40k, to justify the release. DW and GK would better fit their own fluff in a skirmish game than in base 40k. Harlies should have remained in the elites section of the Eldar/DE codices.

This is the list for me although Knights ought to get slotted in somewhere too if there was a bonus option.