I have gotten my hands on some fairly solid Necron rumors. I say they are fairly solid because the source I got them from has proved reliable in the past, however the rumors themselves are indeed 2nd hand (I didn't see the codex myself), and therefore I can't personally verify any of this. That also means if you have any more questions on anything I (probably) won't be able to provide you with any more details (as I don't have them).
Anyway here goes:
1) No surprise here, but Necrons are still essentially Tomb Kings in space fluff wise. A shift in fluff is now that all of the higher up necrons are intelligent while the lower level ones are still basically automatons. I guess that's roughly the same as it used to be, but apparently there is more emphasis in the sentience of the higher Necrons now (hence the named Lords).
2) C'Tan are still in the codex...sort of. They have been moved to the Elites section and are now a single unit choice, but with variable upgrade powers you can take.
3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken. If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase, then the save cannot be used. So as an opponent, if you manage to wipe the unit out or make them fall back, then you prevent any Necrons from getting back up...unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.
4) Gauss Weaponry does NOT have rending. It retains the 'auto-glance' on a penetration roll of a '6' rule, but apparently otherwise has lost the 'auto-wound' on a roll of a '6' regardless of Toughness that it used to have. The Gauss Cannon is now apparently Assault 2 & AP3 (I'm assuming the Strength is still 6). The Gaus Flux Arc on the Monolith no longer automatically hits every unit within range, instead each one fires separately and can hit four different targets.
5) Phase out is gone.
6) Destroyers now count as jump infantry and there is a new Fast Attack Jetbike unit called Tomb Blades.
7) Immortals are now a Troops choice. Pariahs are gone. Flayed Ones are Elites.
8) There are indeed 6 named characters (although I have no more info on them). There is also a Necron Overlord and a bodyguard unit called Crypteks. Crypteks can be split off before the game to lead units of Necrons, very similar to Wolf Guard in the Space Wolves codex. Crypteks can take a bunch of different technology upgrades, so there is kind of a way now to have personalized squad leaders in a Necron army.
9) They army is much more mobile now in general. They have several units of jump troops, and 2 new transport vehicles. 1 transport can carry 15 necrons while another can carry 10. Jump pack units count as 2 models and jetbikes count as 5. The one that holds 10 is able to recover casualties to a unit (although can't take it beyond its starting strength). Necron vehicles besides the monolith are open-topped skimmers. However they have something called 'Quantum shielding' which gives their front & side armor +2 until the vehicle takes its first glance/pen, at which point it loses the shielding. One of these two transports (not sure which one) is apparently a personal transport for the Lord (and his retinue).
11) In general Necrons have a lot more long ranged fire support. There is also a new weapon type called Tesla weapons. These weapons, on a roll of '6' to hit automatically cause two more hits. The biggest version of the Tesla weapons has a chance of hitting all other units close to the target; both friend and foe. One of the new vehicles carries the doomsday cannon: 72" S9 AP1 Heavy 1 large blast. BS4.
12) In the Elites section there is a big new walker. It has a heat ray that that is either a melta or flamer depending on what you want to do. Any unit hit by this vehicle is marked (as in: laser targeted), which means that all other necrons count as being twin-linked for shooting at the marked enemy unit that turn.
Okay continuing on here with some nice stuff (added 5/5):
13) Necron Warriors have the same basic statline they had before except they now have a 4+ save. Now before you go crazy, also note that their points cost is 12 points, which is a 1/3 price drop (down from 18 points). That means you get 1/3 more Warrior models in the army for the same amount of points...it also makes losing an entire unit due to sweeping advance, not nearly as painful.
I know a lot of cynical people will hate this and accuse GW from simply making the change to sell more Warrior models, and you could be right. But personally I was always hoping they were going to make Necron Warriors not quite as tough and dump the points cost on them, so you could really take a ton of them...given in my mind they are supposed to be more like a shambling horde of undead robots than some sort of small elite force of super-warriors (but that could just be me).
So this change alone totally changes the army from out of the 'MEQ' umbrella and makes their base statline unique in the game (which is good, IMHO).
14) Immortals have lost their T5 (down to T4), but keep their 3+ save. However, their points cost has dropped to 17 pts a model, which is an 11 point drop (more than 1/3 a drop from the previous cost of 28 pts)!
15) All units in the army benefit from the new WBB rule, not just the units that were formerly classified as 'Necrons' in the current codex (even Scarabs!). So although you're only getting a 5+ save in many cases, you're still getting it on some of the more expensive stuff in the army as well (and there are some pricey new units to counterbalance the relatively cheap Warriors and Immortals). Also the vehicle that can add models back into the unit is also able to use this ability on any unit.
15) Rez Orb is still in the game and boosts the new WBB rule to a 4+ instead of a 5+, but only affects the unit it is in. I have a strong suspicion that this is an upgrade that Crypteks can take (I'll confirm if I find out), so I'd imagine you can get quite a few units in the game getting the 4+ bonus save if you want to pay the points to take them for your Crypteks and then split those Crypteks off to lead units.
16) Veil of Darkness is now definitely something Crypteks can take (so you can have a bunch of 'em in the army), but it no longer allows a unit to be pulled out of combat (and neither does the Monolith), except in the case of the Veil carried by one of the named Lords.
17) In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power. They're naturally still a really mean Monstrous Creature who rocks in combat, but you can also purchase a bunch of different abilities. These abilities are in line with a lot of the things we've seen in the last few codexes, things like: messing around with Deep Striking enemy units, making enemies moving through terrain differently, and allowing the Necron player to change some of his deployment, etc. So it sounds like you have a lot of different options with the C'Tan that really mess with the enemy army and/or supplement your own. And they are not one per army (so you can have 3 if you want to use up all your Elites on them, although it sounds like the other Elites choices are pretty awesome as well).
18) Some of those six new vehicles include flyers (not sure how many), which can move at cruising speed and fire all their weapons.
19) Besides a few units that are Fearless (Wraiths, Tomb Spyders and Scarabs), the army doesn't have any sort of blanket immunity to morale. They are still Ld10, but obviously we know that still leaves them very vulnerable to being run down in combat, and it looks like that will remain a big Achilles heel.
20) Scarabs sound great. They are cheap, have the new WBB rule, move like beasts and have an ability that erodes enemy armor when they get into combat with it. Any non-vehicle model they wound, but don't kill, has its armor save turned to a dash (i.e. nothing) for the rest of the game. If they hit a vehicle, on a 4+ the vehicle loses a point of armor value on ALL facings, and if any facing is reduced to zero, then the vehicle is destroyed (I'm not sure if this ability kicks in for each hit they get on the vehicle, or just once no matter how many hits they cause). There are some items in the army that also have a similar ability to erode armor, including one of the C'Tan powers.
So it sounds like Scarabs may play a major role in most Necron armies!
21) Overall, CC is definitely still the weak point of the army, but it looks like they've got a lot of different places they can take special rules to slow down or screw with approaching enemy, including some of the C'Tan powers, but also some of the different gear they can take. But they also have some different potential counter-assault units, which mainly come out of the Elites section (besides the new Walker, the C'Tan and the flayed ones in Elites there are 3 OTHER brand new units in there as well, for a grand total of 6 Elites choices). The Flayed ones are, being consistent, cheaper than they were and now have 3 Attacks base (but their save is now 4+ as with standard Warriors). One of the other new Elite units is also CC oriented, but is very pricey points wise (but is S5/T5/3+save). This unit can wield a Warscythe, but they are not called Pariahs (no idea if that's what Pariahs have 'turned into' or not).
Another new Elites choice is a sniper style unit that can Deep Strike into play normally or it can choose to immediately Deep Strike immediately after the opponent brings an enemy unit on from Reserves, and they have some nasty additional damage ability against one nominated unit...obviously we need more info to know how useful this will really be, but the concept of countering an opponent's Reserve deployment immediately sounds interesting at least.
The last new Elites choice is an Elite Jump Infantry unit with very close range shooting and some decent CC ability (and are also S5/T5/3+save).
22) Fast Attack has 4 choices...Wraiths, Tomb Blades (jetbikes), Scarabs & Destroyers.
And that's it! Kind of all over the place and certainly not a full snapshot of the codex, but a lot of these things are completely opposite from many of the other rumors I've seen out there.
I have been looking for this picture for ages.
I think that to finally have it realized will be awesome, as I have always loved it.
All these things sound out of left field, so not what people have been asking for, that I'm inclined to believe these the most. That, plus the fact that they all sound freaking amazing! Wilder that my most imaginative dreams.
1.) Is phase out completely gone or now only per Necron unit as sme rumours said?
2.) Can one vehicle be a flyer design, that means a skimmer that could be used as a flyer in a possible flyer expansion?
3.) Are the C'tan more like "aspects of C'tan", otherwise filling elite slots with upgradable gods sounds a bit weird.
4.) Are you sure about one unit, pariahs, completely disappearing from the Codex? Is this a first? Or have they become Crypteks perhaps?
5.) Any rumours on miniature releases?
This all sounds very reasonable to me, except for the C'tan as elites (see Kroothawk's question). Cheers Yak, appreciate the info!
I'm not sure I like the sounds of the new WBB/FNP to be honest and I'm surprised by the nerf to Gauss, so this doesn't sound too optimistic to me so far, but then again, how much Warriors cost is going to be a big factor as will be their resilience in assault...
Sounds really cool, and really interesting. Whilst nothing is definate right now, I'm inclined to believe this as it's it's in a completely different vein to what other rumour posters have been saying, the usual same but tweaked stuff. Something about it all just strikes me as very GWish, and something I really could see happening.
The C'tan Elites thing sounds interesting, let's just hope this all pans out.
Thanx OP, I hope you're source is correct on this one
yakface wrote:Pariahs are gone. Flayed Ones are Elites.
Wha...?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
XxRVNGRDxX wrote: I'm sure my Necron playing friends will be ecstatic.
Well once you give them the good news, temper it with the bad news – the Necron Codex is the ultimate 40K Faustian Bargain. Why?
Well, it’s an old 3rd Ed Codex in dire need of an update. Sadly, in order to get that update the Codex will pass through the bad-fanfiction-y mind of Matt Ward. So us Necron players get a new Codex, but we also get gonzo-bat-gak-insane fluff that will likely involve a Necron Lord carving his name on the Eye of Terror or maybe Blood Angels Tactical Squads as a 0-1 Elites choice or some other such nonsense.
The Good: Sapient high-level Necrons, special characters and a Cryptek-like unit were all things I suggested to define a Necron force whose Lord is less under the C'tans' thumb.
If the Elite walker is fluffed as equipped with some kind of power-weapon-style molecular disruptor (that thereby makes it easier for the Gauss-Flayer technology to teleport chunks out of it), I'm in favour.
The Bad: If there was any unit that should never get a "Build your own X" unit entry, the C'tan are it. There are only four of them, so it is bad writing to create that sort of unit instead of just defining those four (or whichever ones are active). And as I said above, sapience and C'tan involvement should be mutually exclusive.
Adding transports. Like the Grey Knights, Ward's methods of representing a teleportation-happy faction are lacking.
We'll be Back is pretty much FNP, but worse. It's not like you can take advantage of the temporary immunity being knocked down provides, since by the time you could take advantage of it, WBB stops working.
I don't like the sound of the Tesla weapons. The original WD article had a pseudo-scientific explanation for why Gauss weapons were called Gauss weapons. Calling another one a Tesla weapon is too transparent to be convincing.
The Other: With Phase Out gone, I hope the Sisters will have some other way to take down a Monolith.
I like the sound of all this, and being that it sounds different from all the other rumors out there I"m tending to lean towards believing this more that the old rumors.+1 on the C'tan being in the elite spot, but after seeing dreadnoughts in the troop slot for Blood Angels, I'll believe anything.
I do not think they would completely wipe out Pariahs, they're one of the iconic units! (albeit useless, such as techmarines)
Meh, the WBB sounds funky. I'll have to see the mechanics played out to be convinced
I dislike GW making every army mechable. Is it competitive? Yes. Is it really necessary? Imo no unless the transports are something else besides "reskined rhino/chimera"
Guess I'll have to wait to see the full thing, I'm kinda pessimistic on gw releases lately
Thanx OP, I hope you're source is correct on this one
The OP is the owner of Dakka Dakka, and a frequent contributor to GWFAQ's. I'm pretty certain these are solid, or he wouldn't stick his neck out
Yup I'm aware of this and as I said in my post, I'm inclined to believe what he is saying.
But until GW actually release the codex then for all we really know, this could all be pie in the sky. No matter how much the likelihood of it being true.
So my point in saying thank you etc was that although I believe and hope his post is to be true, we cannot be 100% sure just yet.
yakface wrote:2) C'Tan are still in the codex...sort of. They have been moved to the Elites section and are now a single unit choice, but with variable upgrade powers you can take.
Ability to field more space gods with T8. Wah!
yakface wrote:3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain
Yay!
yakface wrote:but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc.
Boo!
yakface wrote:4) Gauss Weaponry does NOT have rending. It retains the 'auto-glance' on a penetration roll of a '6' rule, but apparently otherwise has lost the 'auto-wound' on a roll of a '6' regardless of Toughness that it used to have.
Happy with auto-wound getting the nerf bat.
yakface wrote:7) Immortals are now a Troops choice. Pariahs are gone.
WHAT!? 1.Pariahs are squatted? How?! Sure their rules were below schmeh, but their fluff was well established (in a book whose fluff was very lacking). If Pariahs aren't so, then what happens to the Pariah gene? Shouldn't Culexi be removed as well if there are no humans with the Pariah gene to supply more Pariahs after their demise?
2. Immortals as troops... Well, the video in my sig can be a proper answer to see this currently fromage filled robot turned into a min/max army choice.
I'm willing to guess that the Necron Pariahs(not the same as Pariah gene/Culexi. The Necron Pariahs were people who had the Gene, abducted and then stuffed into a Necron body) being removed isn't a bad thing.
That's likely what we're going to see as the C'Tan entry. Pariahs were supposedly, according to the Xenology book, being groomed as a kind of 'host' for the C'Tan to project their power through.
Think 'Battle Psykers' but with the ability to channel the C'Tan proper.
The C'tan power Pariah idea would be something interesting for sure. What I'm really praying is an option is to take one of the 2, 3, or maybe even 4 active C'tan and field him, at a cost of 600+ pts though, and really make him over the top excellent
Hm. These rumours contradict what ghost21 had to say, in some ways. Notably the existence of C'tan. Now I'm curious to see which rumours start panning out.
ChiliPowderKeg wrote:1.Pariahs are squatted? How?! Sure their rules were below schmeh, but their fluff was well established (in a book whose fluff was very lacking). If Pariahs aren't so, then what happens to the Pariah gene? Shouldn't Culexi be removed as well if there are no humans with the Pariah gene to supply more Pariahs after their demise?
Wow. That's Apex-level jumping to conclusions right there.
Removed as a unit choice doesn't mean retroactively wiped out of existence, it could mean several things:
- Unit Renamed
- Unit in the background, not in the codex
- Concept retconned into a new unit type
- any number of other things.
If I had to guess, I'd say that the Crypteks are going to be the new Pariahs. the Pariahs always seemed a little over-equipped for a unit to me anyway, but it may be that you can equip Crypteks to have pariah-like abilities and equipment, then either field them as a unit (using them like you did Pariahs before) or split them up, effectively having Pariahs leading Warrior units (which would be...interesting...)
Pumped! this will be good.....and bad but good mostly like any new release, can't wait to get my hands on the models...now just the waiting game for pic leaks!
The destroyers getting jump infantry would make sense if they had the tau style jetpacks (move, shoot, move into cover in assault). The pariahs dropping out doesn't make sense given the necrons looking for blanks thing in other stories and fluff. The Fall of Damnos was pretty good, the space marines did act like a bunch of dicks thou, but would the behavior of the Damnos Necrons be typical? the Necron empire must have been huge, the tombworlds are well spread out and an entire codex fluff being changed just to represent one group because of a story just doesn't felt right.
Interesting to see all of the different rumors running around. These are very different than previous, so either they are
a) true b) someone really wanted to screw with everyone
Kinda sad about transports actually. It was one thing that necrons did differently, they just phase/teleport their troops everywhere instead of using using metal boxes (probably also sentiant) to get them from a to b.
Mixed feelings about wbb, like that its not just FNP, sad about the 5+ (cant get everything I know). Would also make sense if they had different levels of it, or if res orbs upped it by 1 etc etc (ALSO NOT A RUMOR JUST AN OBSERVATION)
No rending is probably a good thing, no wounding on 6s effects like 1 model, Wraithlords? So not really a nerf. Wish they got +1 on damage chart to vehicle penetration or something to that effect.
Overall pretty happy. TBH I think at this point I would be happy with a lot of things though...
also interested to see how much they retconn the fluff compare to just add more to it. Definitely happy with the idea of Lords having sentience.
Finally, going to step into forbidden zone and say, you know Matt Ward is not really that bad. He is fun to make fun of because, well we all like to make fun of someone, but I like the way he made Grey Knights more grimdark, and the necron ba thing was a calculated decision which reinforces the idea that necron lords can make sentient decisions for their own benefit. Anyways my .02
They described no necrons transports in the damnos book, they were walking out of a portal in front of the monolith. Aside from the necrons with personalities and upgraded bodies, no new type of necron were described (maybe the tomb stalker, but that was it) the Admech is really not the most reliable source of information (knowledge is power, guard it well) most of their ideas on how necron tech works is guess work. Everything in the book already existed from a multi-fluff reference point (when it was written).
After reading FoD it will become very clear that Pariah =/= Crypteks. The one featured in FoD was musing at one point on his rise from a lesser status to the one of Cryptek, what that could mean for the codex... only time shall tell!
I have gotten my hands on some fairly solid Necron rumors. I say they are fairly solid because the source I got them from has proved reliable in the past, however the rumors themselves are indeed 2nd hand (I didn't see the codex myself), and therefore I can't personally verify any of this. That also means if you have any more questions on anything I (probably) won't be able to provide you with any more details (as I don't have them).
Anyway here goes:
1) No surprise here, but Necrons are still essentially Tomb Kings in space fluff wise. A shift in fluff is now that all of the higher up necrons are intelligent while the lower level ones are still basically automatons. I guess that's roughly the same as it used to be, but apparently there is more emphasis in the sentience of the higher Necrons now (hence the named Lords).
I like this, to a certain extent. It should add to some of the flavor of the army. I hope they don't go overboard though.
2) C'Tan are still in the codex...sort of. They have been moved to the Elites section and are now a single unit choice, but with variable upgrade powers you can take.
I'm skeptical. To me this sounds more like a lesser Necron unit channeling C'Tan powers, only because it would be a bit odd for Necron armies to be running around with squads of super-star gods.
3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken. If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase, then the save cannot be used. So as an opponent, if you manage to wipe the unit out or make them fall back, then you prevent any Necrons from getting back up...unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.
This seems better, maybe. Looks like the list of restrictions/exceptions/exceptions to exceptions is much less complicated. Also, having it at the end of the phase reduces the chances of it interacting brokenly with other rules. I expect this might pan out as a nerf for lower-level necrons, but still be on par with current WBB for some of the stronger ones ('cause of ever-living).
4) Gauss Weaponry does NOT have rending. It retains the 'auto-glance' on a penetration roll of a '6' rule, but apparently otherwise has lost the 'auto-wound' on a roll of a '6' regardless of Toughness that it used to have. The Gauss Cannon is now apparently Assault 2 & AP3 (I'm assuming the Strength is still 6). The Gaus Flux Arc on the Monolith no longer automatically hits every unit within range, instead each one fires separately and can hit four different targets.
Doesn't seem like much of a change, which is disappointing from a flavor standpoint. I was hoping for some neat rules to make them more than just "Glancing Bolters." The loss of the auto-wound on a 6 isn't really a big deal though, as it only mattered against T8+ creatures, since the guns were S4. Interesting changes to the more exotic weapons though. Looks like standard streamlining/power buffing for a 5th ed codex.
5) Phase out is gone.
Not really surprising. This explains why WBB got nerfed a bit.
6) Destroyers now count as jump infantry and there is a new Fast Attack Jetbike unit called Tomb Blades.
An interesting change. Not much else to say here though with such little info.
7) Immortals are now a Troops choice. Pariahs are gone. Flayed Ones are Elites.
I wonder how Troop Immortals are going to compare to regular Warriors. It will be interesting to see if they totally eclipse them. Elite Flayed Ones is a bit of a bummer, but does keep Necrons out of the "shooty troop/stabby troop" thing that almost all other armies have.
8) There are indeed 6 named characters (although I have no more info on them). There is also a Necron Overlord and a bodyguard unit called Crypteks. Crypteks can be split off before the game to lead units of Necrons, very similar to Wolf Guard in the Space Wolves codex. Crypteks can take a bunch of different technology upgrades, so there is kind of a way now to have personalized squad leaders in a Necron army.
Meh, could be intriguing. Need to hear more.
9) They army is much more mobile now in general. They have several units of jump troops, and 2 new transport vehicles. 1 transport can carry 15 necrons while another can carry 10. Jump pack units count as 2 models and jetbikes count as 5. The one that holds 10 is able to recover casualties to a unit (although can't take it beyond its starting strength). Necron vehicles besides the monolith are open-topped skimmers. However they have something called 'Quantum shielding' which gives their front & side armor +2 until the vehicle takes its first glance/pen, at which point it loses the shielding. One of these two transports (not sure which one) is apparently a personal transport for the Lord (and his retinue).
I'm going to agree with some of the other posters... this is a bit disappointing. While I imagine shielded "skiffs" might turn out to be cool, I never felt like Necrons needed transports from a flavor standpoint.
More vehicles apparently means more money, so this isn't surprising, but I feel the same way as with the transports. Meh.
11) In general Necrons have a lot more long ranged fire support. There is also a new weapon type called Tesla weapons. These weapons, on a roll of '6' to hit automatically cause two more hits. The biggest version of the Tesla weapons has a chance of hitting all other units close to the target; both friend and foe. One of the new vehicles carries the doomsday cannon: 72" S9 AP1 Heavy 1 large blast. BS4.
Interesting. Need to see more.
12) In the Elites section there is a big new walker. It has a heat ray that that is either a melta or flamer depending on what you want to do. Any unit hit by this vehicle is marked (as in: laser targeted), which means that all other necrons count as being twin-linked for shooting at the marked enemy unit that turn.
Better version of the Tomb Stalker maybe? Sounds nasty.
And that's it! Kind of all over the place and certainly not a full snapshot of the codex, but a lot of these things are completely opposite from many of the other rumors I've seen out there.
Before we start grieving over lost models lets wait to see if these rumors turn out to be true. I'm currently an IG player but am building up some necrons in the hope there codex is good.
I'm assuming that since destroyers are probably still in (and as jump troops), and so are warriors, that now would be a good time to buy a battleforce or two in preperation and to avoid the price hike and contents removal that is sure to follow the new codex?
Avatar 720 wrote:I'm assuming that since destroyers are probably still in (and as jump troops), and so are warriors, that now would be a good time to buy a battleforce or two in preperation and to avoid the price hike and contents removal that is sure to follow the new codex?
Yes. As I've been saying for weeks, if you can get one from a discounter, do so.
Avatar 720 wrote:I'm assuming that since destroyers are probably still in (and as jump troops), and so are warriors, that now would be a good time to buy a battleforce or two in preperation and to avoid the price hike and contents removal that is sure to follow the new codex?
After the price hikes of existing product that occurred with the Orcs And Goblins release and now Tomb Kings, including the TK Battalion, the writing would appear to be on the wall with regard to pricing from GW each time an army is revised now. Instead of just the annual price hike in early June or July prices are being adjusted range by range as model army ranges are revised and packaging updated. I think you might be wise to take your own advice and sock away some existing Necron product now, especially the Battleforce with its current level of price break before any changes are made to the existing offerings.
Been playing with the Nercons for a long, long time.
Anything with Ward's hands on it and it is a xeno codex, well just be prepared to cry a little. You are going to need $$$ and lots of $$$ to make your new Necron Army that might be playable (?)
If someone else is writing the Codex then your chances of having a viable army without paying through the nose has just improved dramatically.
What in the world makes people think you're losing their fluff?
Pariahs, as a unit were just a 'meh' fluff thing.
They were humans with the Pariah gene, harvested, and their consciousness was stuffed into a Necrodermis body. That somehow made them 'Elite' and trusted units...which made no sense.
Adam LongWalker wrote:Answer: WARD + writing = Reconned Fluff.
Uh, yeah...not really.
More retconning was done by Cavatore and Haines than Ward has done as of yet. And what's more, much of Ward's fluff (specifically the Grey Knights) was previously underdeveloped.
There's a disturbing amount of ire pointed towards him for changes, and I'll admit I was guilty of some of it(Dreadknight! *shakes fist in anger*)--but giving it a thorough readthrough and editing will mean a bit of a difference.
Uuueueeerrgh I hate how Pariahs are gone! they got rid of souless on Culexus assassins too! They werent bad units, they changed the meta! So annoyed at that, I mean it was an awesome bit of fluff, what with the Pariah gene and alll, and being immune to the warp.
Damn matt ward I hate him and would assassinate him with a .50cal Barret any day! HATE!
/rant over
Seems good. My paladins cry at the sound of that doomsday cannon!
well given that phase out is supposedly gone you might actually have to kill the monoliths/destroyers that do most of the work anyways. So even if they do suck in cc (which, my guess is they will) it wont matter as much.
I'm betting on a nerf on the Lith, 'for simplicity's sake'.
I'm very displeased by the WBB replacement rule, if true. Crons will still suffer from insta-sweep syndrome, but have even less chance of surviving in combat.
I have gotten my hands on some fairly solid Necron rumors. I say they are fairly solid because the source I got them from has proved reliable in the past, however the rumors themselves are indeed 2nd hand (I didn't see the codex myself), and therefore I can't personally verify any of this. That also means if you have any more questions on anything I (probably) won't be able to provide you with any more details (as I don't have them).
Anyway here goes:
1) No surprise here, but Necrons are still essentially Tomb Kings in space fluff wise. A shift in fluff is now that all of the higher up necrons are intelligent while the lower level ones are still basically automatons. I guess that's roughly the same as it used to be, but apparently there is more emphasis in the sentience of the higher Necrons now (hence the named Lords).
- I like this in the sense that there will hopefully be more flavor to the top end of the food chain in Crons. I hope they don't push that the lower rank and file are all completely without character. I always looked at the grunts as being somewhat sentient and sort of existing in a sad/angry sort of half awake dream state. Some were totally gone from being reconstituted too many times while others were still somewhat themselves.
2) C'Tan are still in the codex...sort of. They have been moved to the Elites section and are now a single unit choice, but with variable upgrade powers you can take.
- I'd have to see how this would play out exactly to have an opinion on it. My gut reaction is it'll work well if done correctly.
3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken. If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase, then the save cannot be used. So as an opponent, if you manage to wipe the unit out or make them fall back, then you prevent any Necrons from getting back up...unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.
- I don't care for this at all. In my eyes, it kind of takes the worst parts of both WBB and FnP and jumbles them into something new that just seems like a sad attempt at making it so they can say "it's not another FnP army" while nerfing WBB in exchange to losing Phase Out.
4) Gauss Weaponry does NOT have rending. It retains the 'auto-glance' on a penetration roll of a '6' rule, but apparently otherwise has lost the 'auto-wound' on a roll of a '6' regardless of Toughness that it used to have. The Gauss Cannon is now apparently Assault 2 & AP3 (I'm assuming the Strength is still 6). The Gaus Flux Arc on the Monolith no longer automatically hits every unit within range, instead each one fires separately and can hit four different targets.
- Without seeing the whole picture of what weapon statlines are availble in what quantites/prices, it's hard to have an opinon on this. My gut reaction is not good.
5) Phase out is gone.
- Again, if the trade off for this is the new WBB that was described, I'm not quite convinced it was worth it.
6) Destroyers now count as jump infantry and there is a new Fast Attack Jetbike unit called Tomb Blades.
- Think this will overall be a nerf to destroyers (not surprising considering GWs history with popular units when doing codex rewrites)
7) Immortals are now a Troops choice. Pariahs are gone. Flayed Ones are Elites.
- Immortals as troops and Flayed ones as elites just seems backwards to me unless they undergo some major changes. Pariahs being gone sucks big time. So much potential in them with the right tweaks.
8) There are indeed 6 named characters (although I have no more info on them). There is also a Necron Overlord and a bodyguard unit called Crypteks. Crypteks can be split off before the game to lead units of Necrons, very similar to Wolf Guard in the Space Wolves codex. Crypteks can take a bunch of different technology upgrades, so there is kind of a way now to have personalized squad leaders in a Necron army.
- Potentially cool...no details though so it's impossible to form an opinion.
9) They army is much more mobile now in general. They have several units of jump troops, and 2 new transport vehicles. 1 transport can carry 15 necrons while another can carry 10. Jump pack units count as 2 models and jetbikes count as 5. The one that holds 10 is able to recover casualties to a unit (although can't take it beyond its starting strength). Necron vehicles besides the monolith are open-topped skimmers. However they have something called 'Quantum shielding' which gives their front & side armor +2 until the vehicle takes its first glance/pen, at which point it loses the shielding. One of these two transports (not sure which one) is apparently a personal transport for the Lord (and his retinue).
- Yay...more mech. Epic fail on taking advantage of a very fluffy means of non-mech mobility.
11) In general Necrons have a lot more long ranged fire support. There is also a new weapon type called Tesla weapons. These weapons, on a roll of '6' to hit automatically cause two more hits. The biggest version of the Tesla weapons has a chance of hitting all other units close to the target; both friend and foe. One of the new vehicles carries the doomsday cannon: 72" S9 AP1 Heavy 1 large blast. BS4.
- Again, without points/availability/stats of all the firepower, it's hard to say anything about these. The name does not particularly do much for me (I really doubt that in the 40k setting, they had any idea that a man named Tesla existed or what he did.)
12) In the Elites section there is a big new walker. It has a heat ray that that is either a melta or flamer depending on what you want to do. Any unit hit by this vehicle is marked (as in: laser targeted), which means that all other necrons count as being twin-linked for shooting at the marked enemy unit that turn.
- Could be interesting, could be terrible.
And that's it! Kind of all over the place and certainly not a full snapshot of the codex, but a lot of these things are completely opposite from many of the other rumors I've seen out there.
If this is the road GW takes with Crons, there is a good chance I'll be putting mine on the auction block.
I'm going to give the new codex a chance and at least play a few games with it before I decide, but it does seem like a radical change is coming in playstyle and focus for our beloved bots.
I'll either love it, and play them or be less impressed and sell them, but i want to be very sure before I get rif f them
waits for ghost to confirm some just in case.
I dont' like the mech as that's why i picked crons i hate putting vehicles together cept the monolith which i'm trying I don't think crons needed them.
Immortals as troops? Will need some careful balance in points and stats, otherwise there'll be no reason to take 'boring' old Warriors. But the GK precedent (allowing termies as troops) doesn't seem to have upset too many.
The gauss weapon nerf (or rather, its non-restoration to 4th Ed coolness) puzzles me, if a Warrior/Immortal unit has no way to hurt heavy armour.
The giant walker worries me - a DreadNecronKnight perhaps?
Immortals are Troops because existing Necron players already own oodles of regular Warriors and GW needs to be able to sell something in large quantities to existing players.
50% potential for awesome, 90% potential to "tyranids" the codex, and given my recent investment in 30 metal immortals, 10 pariahs and a few other units, i might be one of those guys that plays "an old edition", not for nostalgia, but because it acutally is better
Not too keen on warriors being turned in to tau firewarriors, but i only have 52 of them, was holding off on buying another 68.
Transports?
Seriously?
its like he doesnt get how teleportation armies are supposed to work
Pariahs being gone as well? thats just really wtf
Every time I try to imagine that walker, I either think of something out of Power rangers or something equally stupid
Just can't picture it
Im reading Fall of Damnos,the lords are interesting there, its a good concept and could very well make Necrons far more interesting. But this is Ward so who knows.
If he does do the C'tan elite thing, that will just be stupid
I honestly hope it turns out that Lords can take on manifestations of them like in DOW, that way you can put them in Apoc games while still having their presence in normal ones.
Will he screw this up background wise? I didn't think he could for Grey Knights but he proved me wrong there, odds are he will screw this up to
Why must we have transports??? What happened to the idea of necrons being a slow undead host??
Jump infantry? Just because they have 3+ save doesn't mean they should be another codex of marine. These are ancient skeleton robots; they shouldn't be driving around in vehicles and bounding over buildings with specialist jump packs. They should be advancing slowly as a slow, relentless single entity.
I'm not really sure but to me no phase out and a nerfed WBB just makes me think of marines and if I do want another 3+ save army after I eventually really begin and finish DE I'd want it to be a very different to the marine armies that have at least 1/4 of the codexs
H.B.M.C. wrote:What happened to the idea of Necron transports not really being transports at all, but mobile portals?
I liked that idea better.
i agree with you H.B.M.C. but this IS WARD *ten million kittens die* we're talking about, so pretty much expect necrons to be having sex with the blood angels
That transport looks pretty cool, however, when I first glanced at the picture it looked so much cooler - namely the "ribs"/gubbins on the sides looked like necrons in small recesses being carried around - that seemed like a very cool design
The changes do seem to make the Necrons seem more interesting.
any idea on who is writing the dex? that might give an indication on its quality both fluff and rules wise. otherwise initial read through looks interesting
DarthSpader wrote:any idea on who is writing the dex? that might give an indication on its quality both fluff and rules wise. otherwise initial read through looks interesting
All signs point to M. Night Shylamalamadingdong Ward
As for the complaints about Destroyers as Jump infantry, if I recall didn't they have something to that effect in DOW can't remember for sure, but it doesnt seem like that bad of an idea to me
It could work with the way they are structured
Now if he had Necron Warriors flying around in jumppacks that would be a sight to see
christ..... if its ward then im expecting blood angel allusions, a ctan under mars and titan, and a necron lord that just WTFPWNS everything simply by looking at it. oh, and he lives in the warp and rides a bloodthirster around, and keeps a lord of change as a pet.
rules wise, well who the heck knows... but im thinking everything is gonna have the charlie sheen button as standard equipment.
christ..... if its ward then im expecting blood angel allusions, a ctan under mars and titan, and a necron lord that just WTFPWNS everything simply by looking at it. oh, and he lives in the warp and rides a bloodthirster around, and keeps a lord of change as a pet.
rules wise, well who the heck knows... but im thinking everything is gonna have the charlie sheen button as standard equipment.
there is a C'tan under mars though, the Void Dragon. but yes expect nothing less the utter BS rules wise and utter garbage fluff wise
Gentlemen, can we at least get a look at the codex before everyone here jumps off a Cliff? I mean these are still rumors, and honestly, if the Execution is good, I don't see a problem.
Everyone here is blaming Ward, but I imagine that there are plenty of cases when GWHQ says something a long the lines of "You need to include X" and they have to write the rules for it. GW is still a business, and they know that transports sell. This is more likely the cause of Transports being in the Codex, than Ward's rules.
I mean, really, I think the Idea of an Open topped transport with a bunch of Immortals firing out of it is a really cool idea, especially with the shielding that Yakface pointed out. Something that is AV13 (With the +2) Isn't exactly easy to crack.
Matt Ward has written solid rules for the armies he has done so far. Let's have a look at the codex before all the Doom and gloom fellas. He doesn't really deserve all the hate he gets on this forum.
H.B.M.C. wrote:What happened to the idea of Necron transports not really being transports at all, but mobile portals?
I liked that idea better.
Amen.
I loved the idea that my army didn't really have metal boxes to ride around in, but could teleport where it needed to be. More versatile/instant, but less protection.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote:Matt Ward has written solid rules for the armies he has done so far.
Kroothawk wrote:4.) Are you sure about one unit, pariahs, completely disappearing from the Codex? Is this a first? Or have they become Crypteks perhaps?
Charax wrote:If I had to guess, I'd say that the Crypteks are going to be the new Pariahs.
Monster Rain wrote:
Phototoxin wrote:What do I do with my 10 pariahs?
Mine are getting promoted to "Crypteks."
I said it first, folks. You remember that.
Make it third
AgeOfEgos wrote:
kenshin620 wrote:*Blood Angel and Necron Teamwork Picture*
Nerd Rage Level: Yellow (Heightened)
Nerd Rage Level adjusted to Orange:
BTW: Waiting for the first non-GW Lolicron Warrior miniatures *hinthint*
H.B.M.C. wrote:What happened to the idea of Necron transports not really being transports at all, but mobile portals?
I liked that idea better.
Amen.
I loved the idea that my army didn't really have metal boxes to ride around in, but could teleport where it needed to be. More versatile/instant, but less protection.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote:Matt Ward has written solid rules for the armies he has done so far.
I don't really think the ward hate is justified here.
1. destroyers are units hovering and destroying everything. Why should they not become jump infantry.
2. Those transports can allways be justified saying they are waiting somewhere else and only 15 can teleport through or something.
3. Those crypteks sound like real fun. Wolf guard almost got me into SW.
4. we haven't even read the fluff yet, maybe it isn't that bad afterall, 40k universe is meant to be a bizarre place.
Sasori wrote:Matt Ward has written solid rules for the armies he has done so far. Let's have a look at the codex before all the Doom and gloom fellas. He doesn't really deserve all the hate he gets on this forum.
The internet at large is a breeding ground for hyperbole, and Dakka is no exception to that. So, on the one extreme, we have you, saying he's an OK guy and to cool out. On the other hand, we have dozens of people calling for his head.
Common sense indicates we need to choose a fair middle ground. The fair middle ground, unfortunately for Mat Ward, is that he still needs a good hard punch in the jibblies.
He deserves every little bit he gets and then a little bit more for some of the stupid nonsense he's introduced over the last, what, 2 years? Grey Knights acting as Khorne Berserkers. Blood Angels calling truces with Necrons. Dreadnoughts that get an extra attack every time they land an attack. Land Raiders that deep-strike. Carving names into hearts. Claiming that Imperial Fists, White Scars and Raven Guard all aspire to be Ultramarines. Bloodstrike Missiles that fire from a Blood Launcher in a StormBlood Raven.
Take the blinders off. This guy is a no-talent ass-clown, at best. He's the 40K Michael Bay.
Sasori wrote:Matt Ward has written solid rules for the armies he has done so far. Let's have a look at the codex before all the Doom and gloom fellas. He doesn't really deserve all the hate he gets on this forum.
The internet at large is a breeding ground for hyperbole, and Dakka is no exception to that. So, on the one extreme, we have you, saying he's an OK guy and to cool out. On the other hand, we have dozens of people calling for his head.
Common sense indicates we need to choose a fair middle ground. The fair middle ground, unfortunately for Mat Ward, is that he still needs a good hard punch in the jibblies.
He deserves every little bit he gets and then a little bit more for some of the stupid nonsense he's introduced over the last, what, 2 years? Grey Knights acting as Khorne Berserkers. Blood Angels calling truces with Necrons. Dreadnoughts that get an extra attack every time they land an attack. Land Raiders that deep-strike. Carving names into hearts. Claiming that Imperial Fists, White Scars and Raven Guard all aspire to be Ultramarines. Bloodstrike Missiles that fire from a Blood Launcher in a StormBlood Raven.
Take the blinders off. This guy is a no-talent ass-clown, at best. He's the 40K Michael Bay.
I agree that his Fluff Is terrible. I've never defended it, and commented that I think it is horrible myself. His Rules Are good though, and have put the armies in the middle ground where they need to be. I Don't really think there is anything wrong with the Deepstriking Land Raiders, or the Dreadnoughts gaining an extra attack. Since the BA release, I haven't seen anyone comment how either of those two things are too strong. Now, you not liking those rules, because you don't think they fit the fluff, is completely separate complaint from them being good rules.
I also consider his bizarre naming conventions to be in line with his fluff writing.
Ouze, can you really say that his rules are not balanced with the current edition of 40k? I think that SM/BA/Gk are right where they need to be, in the scale of things.
I haven't played either GK or Blood Angels since they got Ward'd, though I have flipped through both books. So yes, I shall have to restrict my personal beefs with him to his fluff. Which is 40 Kancer.
Ouze wrote:I haven't played either GK or Blood Angels since they got Ward'd, though I have flipped through both books. So yes, I shall have to restrict my personal beefs with him to his fluff. Which is 40 Kancer.
And in that respect I agree with you 110%. I think GW should just have the Black Library Authors do the Fluff anyway. It would give more time for play testing, and the rules development that is vital to every Army.
Looking forwards to referring to my rulebook many times after this Dex release.
Power to the 'Crons man, they are a cool MEQ for people who don't want Marines. Leaks are always cool debate too, thanks Yak
As for M. Ward, I agree the new rules/fluff are awful, but there is a silent horde out there, who this very minute are painting up either a Sanguinor, DE Transport, GK Chibihawk or such, who love him.
Ok back on track now, Pariahs gone? Don't think i like that idea.
C'Tan as elites? ...........dislike
Apart from these points, i think i like the rest, especially the sentient Necron Lords. That would add some serious personality to them in my opinion.
As for the transports...while i prefer the idea of teleportation through a portal, i suppose it wouldn't hurt...as long as they avoid being turned into another SM army...
And please don't make them look like they are good guys, helping SM kill Tyranids and stuff... They're out to get you all and feed your souls to their immortal star gods remember? Remember?
akira5665 wrote:Looking forwards to referring to my rulebook many times after this Dex release.
Power to the 'Crons man, they are a cool MEQ for people who don't want Marines. Leaks are always cool debate too, thanks Yak
As for M. Ward, I agree the new rules/fluff are awful, but there is a silent horde out there, who this very minute are painting up either a Sanguinor, DE Transport, GK Chibihawk or such, who love him.
really? do tell me who? especially after he messed the GK codex up so much, seeing as knights are suppose to be elite methinks squads of 6 should be able to have two psycannons like they USE TO be for ward got to them
I agree, that seems really odd if you ask me. They currently play just fine with no transports. Infact having a bunch of super speedy shooters grinding on the enemy while the slower guys advance works well, even fluffy. But hey, GW NEEDS that $50 plastic high and and this is 5th edition, you know, the one full of mech.
Also not feeling the Not WBB, WBB roll. Is this going to turn into the TWC not being wolves?
A open top skimmer that carries 15 warriors and has this special 'shield' rule doesn't sound like a rhino to me. I would be ticked off if we did get a rhino clone though.
Mar wrote:A open top skimmer that carries 15 warriors and has this special 'shield' rule doesn't sound like a rhino to me. I would be ticked off if we did get a rhino clone though.
You're right, it doesn't sound like a Rhino. It sounds like a Dark Eldar Raider.
Mar wrote:A open top skimmer that carries 15 warriors and has this special 'shield' rule doesn't sound like a rhino to me. I would be ticked off if we did get a rhino clone though.
You're right, it doesn't sound like a Rhino. It sounds like a Dark Eldar Raider.
URGH I really want to say no and prove you wrong somehow but I am not seeing it, maybe we don't know all of its rules yet? /clutches straws!
I disagree with the transport haters. I get the idea of a teleport army (not hard to grasp) but all infantry (or infantry like) is very dull. I've always thought the Necrons needed something OTHER than then Monolith to use as either transport or fire support. If the transports look anything like the concept art, then I'm all for it.
I have no hate for the transport, these rumours may be correct but they are not the whole story and transports are an option of course along with all the crazy stuff like C'tan (please not be C'tan but greater daemon equivalent or aspects or something)
Sasori wrote:Gentlemen, can we at least get a look at the codex before everyone here jumps off a Cliff? I mean these are still rumors
I agree.
However, this is the internet and jumping to conclusions and off cliffs is what we do...
Sasori wrote:
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:What happened to the idea of Necron transports not really being transports at all, but mobile portals?
I liked that idea better.
Amen.
I loved the idea that my army didn't really have metal boxes to ride around in, but could teleport where it needed to be. More versatile/instant, but less protection.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote:Matt Ward has written solid rules for the armies he has done so far.
Which?
Space Marines, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights.
He's right; Balance-wise, on the whole these armies are good rules-wise. Whilst there's the OTT and overly wacky thing in each of these Codices, ruleswise they're fairly balanced.
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
akira5665 wrote:As for M. Ward, I agree the new rules/fluff are awful, but there is a silent horde out there, who this very minute are painting up either a Sanguinor, DE Transport, GK Chibihawk or such, who love him.
really? do tell me who? especially after he messed the GK codex up so much, seeing as knights are suppose to be elite methinks squads of 6 should be able to have two psycannons like they USE TO be for ward got to them
All you have to do is look at the Army Lists section for example and it's easy to see how it's dominated by Blood Angels and Grey Knights. Whilst many of us - mostly vets it seems - dislike Mat Wards stuff, there's still a LARGE number of people that buy it and enjoy it and ultimately for GW, the former of which is what matters. Some people see things like Flying Land Raiders, Dreadknights and Storm Ravens and think "awesome!!1!!11!!" and generally these are the kind that enjoy the "fanwank" fluff and ideas Mat Ward seems to come out with; hence no matter how many of us may hate his stuff, it still sells and has a large base of support...
Note: I'm not a fan of Ward, but I try to be reasonable about things.
---------
I think Immortals becoming troops sounds probable; from GW perspective, they always intend to sell new stuff and this stuff is often supported by strong rules; most people own a lot of Warriors, but with almost certainly a new, plastic Immortal kit coming out, making them troops should mean they sell by the tonne...
Pretty mixed opinions so far. It's great that Phase Out is gone, and that now there's more vehicle options and increased army mobility, but it's a shame to see Pariahs dropped (they sucked in last Codex but it would've been nice to see them improved), and the loss of Rending on Gauss weapons hurts.
Should be an interesting enough army; Necrons are desperate for a new 'Dex and it's always nice to see a new 'Dex that isn't a Space Marine one.
C'tan as Elites though? Not sure I can believe that...
here's hoping he doesn't mess up too much and adds in the Obelisk in as well as the Warbarque and Æonic Orb. if that's done i can just ignore all the horrible fluff and rules he writes
Moopy wrote:I disagree with the transport haters. I get the idea of a teleport army (not hard to grasp) but all infantry (or infantry like) is very dull.
Dull, I can't say. But I daresay once you've mastered consequence-free teleportation, I suspect the days of riding around in a buggy which could become your tomb at any second are probably behind you for good, yes?
Farmer wrote:... seriously though GW making necron rhinos?
Maybe the Necrons want to be Ultramarines too?
While I don't like Matt Wards fluff at all, I'm not going to lie, It would be extremely satisfying to me for a Necron Lord to carve his name on Marneus Calgars heart.
Didn't someone from GW say ages back, the Necrons where going to be this rolling thing with each release with more new stuff being added as if the race is slowly waking up?
Regardless, most of this sounds really good, surprised by the ammount of new vehicles if true, but I don't think I'd turn anything down at this point.
I just hope Wraiths get a plastic box, as I'd love to put some in the boys army, but those metal ones would make me weep putting them together.
I think all the new rumors sound great, but I could care less honestly. All I really want is new and awesome models to paint How long do we have to wait till a GW spy with a post count of 3 "leaks" a blurey little gif of new models to make us all drool like ravenous dogs?
I just found them, brittle? when putting them together for a mate years back.
I'd much rather they where plastic, cost wise as well, as I'd love to give my eldest a large unit of them, love the silouette on the battlefield.
However yeah, Tomb Spyder I didn't even raise as that was a given, as is the plastic box hopefully. Almost threw it off the table when putting the metal one together for the same mate.
I find it amusing how for every rumor there is another rumor that contradicts it directly. And every new batch of rumors adds more contradictions.
Some intelligence service could take lessons in dis-information from the GW.
H.B.M.C. wrote:...but we also get gonzo-bat-gak-insane fluff that will likely involve a Necron Lord carving his name on the Eye of Terror or maybe Blood Angels Tactical Squads as a 0-1 Elites choice or some other such nonsense.
Frankly, I'm a fan of most every model being plastic. It usually results in less pinning for support and let's face it, plastic is sweet for modifications.
If that were to make models also cheaper, it would be ideal...but...it is GW..so I suppose that is not likely.
Sasori wrote:Gentlemen, can we at least get a look at the codex before everyone here jumps off a Cliff? I mean these are still rumors
I agree.
However, this is the internet and jumping to conclusions and off cliffs is what we do...
Sasori wrote:
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:What happened to the idea of Necron transports not really being transports at all, but mobile portals?
I liked that idea better.
Amen.
I loved the idea that my army didn't really have metal boxes to ride around in, but could teleport where it needed to be. More versatile/instant, but less protection.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote:Matt Ward has written solid rules for the armies he has done so far.
Which?
Space Marines, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights.
He's right; Balance-wise, on the whole these armies are good rules-wise. Whilst there's the OTT and overly wacky thing in each of these Codices, ruleswise they're fairly balanced.
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
akira5665 wrote:As for M. Ward, I agree the new rules/fluff are awful, but there is a silent horde out there, who this very minute are painting up either a Sanguinor, DE Transport, GK Chibihawk or such, who love him.
really? do tell me who? especially after he messed the GK codex up so much, seeing as knights are suppose to be elite methinks squads of 6 should be able to have two psycannons like they USE TO be for ward got to them
All you have to do is look at the Army Lists section for example and it's easy to see how it's dominated by Blood Angels and Grey Knights. Whilst many of us - mostly vets it seems - dislike Mat Wards stuff, there's still a LARGE number of people that buy it and enjoy it and ultimately for GW, the former of which is what matters. Some people see things like Flying Land Raiders, Dreadknights and Storm Ravens and think "awesome!!1!!11!!" and generally these are the kind that enjoy the "fanwank" fluff and ideas Mat Ward seems to come out with; hence no matter how many of us may hate his stuff, it still sells and has a large base of support...
Note: I'm not a fan of Ward, but I try to be reasonable about things.
---------
I think Immortals becoming troops sounds probable; from GW perspective, they always intend to sell new stuff and this stuff is often supported by strong rules; most people own a lot of Warriors, but with almost certainly a new, plastic Immortal kit coming out, making them troops should mean they sell by the tonne...
Well Im just curious what our "I use this ability and your *hardcore* character is now dead. Like DEAD dead, dead" thing will be since he has one of those in a couple of his codices.
What I am intrigued with apart from how they are to pull off this elite c'tan business is why and how imortals has troops will work has troops with warriors etc.
Well Im just curious what our "I use this ability and your *hardcore* character is now dead. Like DEAD dead, dead" thing will be since he has one of those in a couple of his codices.
Our staple weapon desintegrates the victim at the basic parts of its existence.
I'm sure a decent writer could make something of that.
Of course, this being Mat Ward (as he currently spells himself) he will come up with something completely new.
I hope wraiths get a little better (maybe more attacks if they stay without PW's, add PW's otherwise)
I hope the Forgeworld Tombstalker is added to the dex (its a pretty fantastic model)
I hope the new Tomb Spider types aren't garbage
I hope the stupid new transport things (bitter obviously) aren't like Raiders, which is how they sound atm... I really wish they'd stay with the whole "phalanx of robots marching to destroy you" theme
Also, my guess is if this new WBB goes through, Res orbs will probably allow 1 unit within X" to reroll all failed WBB's for that turn. I honestly LIKE this new WBB concept; the fact its not negated by anything other than the unit being wiped. Thats pretty hot honestly. Sure, its not a 50% chance to get back up, but still....
I really wish they weren't tacking vehicles into the Dex... do it like nids, make 3-5 man boxes of the "bigger" stuff (like Immortals), 10 man boxes of the smaller stuff, big blisters, and 'Liths will get more sales now (at $60 a pop none the less). Why make 6 new vehicles? Especially when most likely 3 of them will be semi-useless, 1 will be "cool" but not great, and 2 will be "zomg need to spam!".
Gah... sick of them taking away fluff in favor of new models. At least new nids and DE fit fluff sorta, it seems like anything getting the Ward remake he makes the model rules first, then finds a way to make it "fit". Sure, Stormravens were sorta cool, but seriously; deep striking raiders? Dreadknights? How about Jesus Jr. (Sanguinor)? Or the mighty Draigo, who will single handedly destroy the warp?
Kinda ticks me off... Jes Goodwin should just write everything, the Dark Eldar 'Dex is fantastic!
The Dark Eldar 'dex also took several years of playtesting and development. Every time the codex got pushed pack another 6 months or so, they made use of the time by tweaking and testing it.
That's the crux. The crowd wants updates for everyone, RIGHT NOW, but it also wants them smooth and perfectly balanced.
For the rate Ward is shelling out those books, they are actually quite good. No excuse for the fluff, though.
The book was written by Kelly (yes, THAT Phil Kelly, the Jaws Of the World Wolf-Kelly, which really shows how much good enough playtesting and tweaking can do), by the way. Goodwin and Diaz did the miniatures.
Korraz wrote:The Dark Eldar 'dex also took several years of playtesting and development. Every time the codex got pushed pack another 6 months or so, they made use of the time by tweaking and testing it.
That's the crux. The crowd wants updates for everyone, RIGHT NOW, but it also wants them smooth and perfectly balanced.
For the rate Ward is shelling out those books, they are actually quite good. No excuse for the fluff, though.
True, I'll give you that. Guess speed vs balance we get what we ask for.
But yeah; Ward should write fluff, then build the units. Its been said hes having a hard time writing Necron fluff... no wonder; hes trying to completely redo the dynamic of an army that many people (myself included) LOVE, we just want them updated.
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Iamjack42 wrote:
Zid wrote:Kinda ticks me off... Jes Goodwin should just write everything, the Dark Eldar 'Dex is fantastic!
You mean Phil Kelly?
Yeah, get my people mixed up all the time @_@ <--- failboat self :(
Korraz wrote:The Dark Eldar 'dex also took several years of playtesting and development. Every time the codex got pushed pack another 6 months or so, they made use of the time by tweaking and testing it. That's the crux. The crowd wants updates for everyone, RIGHT NOW, but it also wants them smooth and perfectly balanced. For the rate Ward is shelling out those books, they are actually quite good. No excuse for the fluff, though.
True, I'll give you that. Guess speed vs balance we get what we ask for.
But yeah; Ward should never ever write fluff, they should get a competent person like Kelly or a BL author to do it, then he can build the units around the fluff. Its been said hes having a hard time writing Necron fluff... no wonder; hes trying to completely redo the dynamic of an army that many people (myself included) LOVE, we just want them updated.
Can't wait for Necroliths that fire Necrotesla Cannons that shoot Necrolightning at things.
Or the super uber C'tan Lord that actually killed Vulkan and Leman Russ with a single hand (the other hand was busy fist-bumping a Blood Angel captain... who was so enthralled by the C'tan Lord he was getting his named tattoo'ed on BOTH of his hearts).
Also, he parties in the Eye of Terror and one time he teamed up with the Enslavers to fight the Eldar.. SUPAH FIST BUMP!
****
Sure the rules will be great, but the fluff is going to be hi-freakin-larious.
yakface wrote:Pariahs are gone. Flayed Ones are Elites.
Wha...?
I think there was something someone said about a name change so that they are HQ retinue type guys under a new name... Don't know if that fits with the Cryptek idea. Hope no one had 20+ of these guys.:(
Well, it’s an old 3rd Ed Codex in dire need of an update. Sadly, in order to get that update the Codex will pass through the bad-fanfiction-y mind of Matt Ward. So us Necron players get a new Codex, but we also get gonzo-bat-gak-insane fluff that will likely involve a Necron Lord carving his name on the Eye of Terror or maybe Blood Angels Tactical Squads as a 0-1 Elites choice or some other such nonsense.
Korraz wrote:The book was written by Kelly (yes, THAT Phil Kelly, the Jaws Of the World Wolf-Kelly, which really shows how much good enough playtesting and tweaking can do), by the way. Goodwin and Diaz did the miniatures.
So one power (which is generally skipped in favor of two others) makes Kelly a worse author for you? Whereas, by comparison, Ward made a template version that didn't give MCs the bonus to Initiative that Jaws does? Could your argument get any worse?
The rumors that started this thread are quite exciting, especially for us modelers. Sounds like a bunch of great new kits to play around with and kit-bash.
The wish lists, codex author opinions, etc. not so exciting, in fact they are less than exciting as in they are the same old dung that every rumor thread descends to once actual rumors or information are finished being posted.
Easy fellas. I heard from a few rumours that a few people worked on the book and Ward is handling the majority. That could easily mean the fluff is not his doing for the most part, and the rules are. So we could blame him for the new FOC but not what kind of fluff that appears. Give it time and see what comes out.
Half the rumours are indeed confusing Yakface. A loss of Pariahs like others makes me sad - they needed a few changes not a removal.
Flayed Ones should've stayed in Fast Attack but that's personal preference.
Destroyers being Jump Infantry kinda works - they can drift above the battle and land to blast something with guass, but otherwise thats about as understandable as it gets. Skimmers suit them better.
C'tan in Elites as a 0-1... I'm hoping for an Essence of type approach rather than a fullblown God.
Transports... well they better be good ones and well justified. Having an ancient box full of Warriors will not do - a mobile portal or gateway from the Tomb could work. Shouldn't really be open-topped unless it is more portal-based. The fact it can carry jetbikes though... that's interesting.
Monolith I suspect is getting a more diversified arsonel in a sense - those guns given proper profiles and a few other changes.
Still no words on Warscythes though... *hopes they stay the same*.
And huzzah for Immortals as troops. A good move
3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken. If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase, then the save cannot be used. So as an opponent, if you manage to wipe the unit out or make them fall back, then you prevent any Necrons from getting back up...unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.
This "'ever-living' rule" has me very interested. We've been told that the Rez Orb has gotten better right, so could one of the affects of the orb be that it confers this rule to units within X inches.
Korraz wrote:The book was written by Kelly (yes, THAT Phil Kelly, the Jaws Of the World Wolf-Kelly, which really shows how much good enough playtesting and tweaking can do), by the way. Goodwin and Diaz did the miniatures.
So one power (which is generally skipped in favor of two others) makes Kelly a worse author for you? Whereas, by comparison, Ward made a template version that didn't give MCs the bonus to Initiative that Jaws does? Could your argument get any worse?
JotWW is Significantly better than the Template one...
(Don't get me wrong, Phil Kelly is IMO the best Codex writer we have right now, but The Template power is nowhere in the same league as JOTWW.)
Korraz wrote:The book was written by Kelly (yes, THAT Phil Kelly, the Jaws Of the World Wolf-Kelly, which really shows how much good enough playtesting and tweaking can do), by the way. Goodwin and Diaz did the miniatures.
So one power (which is generally skipped in favor of two others) makes Kelly a worse author for you? Whereas, by comparison, Ward made a template version that didn't give MCs the bonus to Initiative that Jaws does? Could your argument get any worse?
You are a whole lot implying here, mate. You are jumping at shadows.
First of all, I don't care for JOTWW. Since it has been errata'd, it works well enough in the rules and I always found its power laughable. The other psychic powers of the SW are way more poweful and versatile. I just mentioned it, because every time the SW book is mentioned, half of the posts are concerned with the terrible force called JOTWW.
Second, I never said that Kelly is worse. I just wanted to be remembered that the much-praised writer of CE is the very same guy that brought us the Space Wolves book. And the Wolves are objectively a bad book. That book took the 5th edition power creep to a whole new level that not even the Blood Angels are sure to achieve (in the hands of a skilled player, maybe, but it's not comparison to the Point And Sucker Punch that SW are), let alone Vanilla or Grey Knights. The internal balance is laughable and the fluff...well, it's in line with old Space Wolves fluff. Which was always bad, even for WH40k standards.
Third, i just pointed the weight of proper tweaking and playtesting out.
The thought of BL writers writing the fluff makes me smile. Eight of Ten BL books are utter rubbish, even for rubbiish-sci-fi-literature. The idea of one writer doing the rules and one doing the fluff is a good one, though.
Thanks for the info, Yakface. As it's turned into a complete hater's ball I'm going to unsubscribe, but I hope that you'll update the OP now and then as you find out more rumors.
yakface wrote: 1) No surprise here, but Necrons are still essentially Tomb Kings in space fluff wise. A shift in fluff is now that all of the higher up necrons are intelligent while the lower level ones are still basically automatons. I guess that's roughly the same as it used to be, but apparently there is more emphasis in the sentience of the higher Necrons now (hence the named Lords).
Oh sigh oh sigh oh sigh. Thats not what I wanted to here but oh well. That's GW for you, recycling old ideas, can't they for once take a gamble on something genuinely new. I suppose they did with DE but this is another chance thats slipping from them.
Oh yeah, GW has a lot of incentive to make big changes and take chances as evidenced by how the slight changes already rumored here were so well received by the other forum users who posted ahead of that last post.
yakface wrote:
1) No surprise here, but Necrons are still essentially Tomb Kings in space fluff wise. A shift in fluff is now that all of the higher up necrons are intelligent while the lower level ones are still basically automatons. I guess that's roughly the same as it used to be, but apparently there is more emphasis in the sentience of the higher Necrons now (hence the named Lords).
Oh sigh oh sigh oh sigh. Thats not what I wanted to here but oh well. That's GW for you, recycling old ideas, can't they for once take a gamble on something genuinely new. I suppose they did with DE but this is another chance thats slipping from them.
Necrons have always pretty much been the tomb kings in space though and I do not see how DE was something genuinely new either, the theme remained the same slavers who like their excesses which is similar to the dark elves of warhammer also. Nothing is genuinely new just depends how you spin it.
Kroothawk wrote:Some questions (maybe you know the answer):
1.) Is phase out completely gone or now only per Necron unit as sme rumours said?
2.) Can one vehicle be a flyer design, that means a skimmer that could be used as a flyer in a possible flyer expansion?
3.) Are the C'tan more like "aspects of C'tan", otherwise filling elite slots with upgradable gods sounds a bit weird.
4.) Are you sure about one unit, pariahs, completely disappearing from the Codex? Is this a first? Or have they become Crypteks perhaps?
5.) Any rumours on miniature releases?
Those are sadly exactly the kind of questions I can't answer, as I only have the information provided to me, rather than access to the actual codex. Obviously if I'm able to find out more I will be sure to post it.
The one and only thing I can probably say a bit more about is the C'Tan. It does sound a bit like it is the essence or 'shard' of a C'Tan effectively being controlled or deployed by the Necrons. Whether this is a complete redesign of the C'Tan concept or just an evolution of the concept (i.e. the 'full' C'Tans still exist for things like Apocalypse games, but smaller Necron forces carry around C'Tan shards into battle for support) is unknown to me.
yakface wrote: It does sound a bit like it is the essence or 'shard' of a C'Tan effectively being controlled or deployed by the Necrons. Whether this is a complete redesign of the C'Tan concept or just an evolution of the concept (i.e. the 'full' C'Tans still exist for things like Apocalypse games, but smaller Necron forces carry around C'Tan shards into battle for support) is unknown to me.
Well, in Dawn of War, the Necron Lord can be "transformed" if you will, into the Nightbringer for a short period of time, so maybe the C'tan shard is a further evolution/exploration of this concept.
Necrons, with lots of shooty options, are perfect bets for deep striking army. Its is even fluffwyse, as fluff pieces on a lot of books describe necrons "coming from nowhere". Deepstrike dont need to be "luminous flash light teleport", it can come as a "Phase In".
I dont like the way every 40k army is turning into "mech heavy". If thing keep coming this way, we can even expect the "tranportagon", a big flying tyranid, who transport othere nids, and count as a jetbike (with T6 and 3 wounds).
I will stick with the Orkz, at leat their fluff is hard to ruin... (well, some Ward can ever sugest something worse)
The Dwarf Wolf wrote:If thing keep coming this way, we can even expect the "tranportagon", a big flying tyranid, who transport othere nids, and count as a jetbike (with T6 and 3 wounds).
Again, Tyranids already HAVE a transport bug thanks to Epic.
The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Im sad about the transorts...
Necrons, with lots of shooty options, are perfect bets for deep striking army. Its is even fluffwyse, as fluff pieces on a lot of books describe necrons "coming from nowhere". Deepstrike dont need to be "luminous flash light teleport", it can come as a "Phase In".
Ehhhh. That's because more often than not those situations aren't the Necrons "phasing in"--but rather, the Necrons were already there. This is an evolution of the concept and I'll wait to see how it is rather than start decrying it like I did the Dreadknight(which I still don't like. But still, I guess it was inevitable in fleshing out a force that doesn't really have much).
I dont like the way every 40k army is turning into "mech heavy". If thing keep coming this way, we can even expect the "transportagon", a big flying tyranid, who transport othere nids, and count as a jetbike (with T6 and 3 wounds).
There's already the Harridan. It doesn't count as a jetbike, but it can carry broods of Gargoyles.
I will stick with the Orkz, at least their fluff is hard to ruin... (well, some Ward can ever suggest something worse)
The Ork fluff is terrible. There's an Ork castrating a Daemon! Burn Phil Kelly at the stake!
(Notice: that was me making an overreactionist joke. That fluff is there, however, for all to read. Page 27 of the Orks codex, Tuska the Daemon-Killa)
pretre wrote:Don't forget the ork who goes back in time to get another copy of his own gun and then kills himself...
Oh and Wazdakka, who takes out a Titan by crashing through the windshield...
Of course, I liked both of these examples because I like OTT fluff, but they're certainly right in line with the most recent books for OTT-ness.
Not only that, but they're perfectly Orky.
Just like Space Wolves having more feral members who bond better with the 'Wolves' of Fenris than they do their own brothers in arms.
Or Blood Angels and their convoluted sense of honor(which led to the Lamenters butchering an entire population center rather than letting them become enslaved by Orks) not attacking the Necrons after they both fought the Tyranids to a standstill.
Or the Grey Knights using a ritualistic measure to ensure they're shielded from a Warp phenomenon to ensure they can get to the Daemon at the center of it all, etc etc.
1) No surprise here, but Necrons are still essentially Tomb Kings in space fluff wise. A shift in fluff is now that all of the higher up necrons are intelligent while the lower level ones are still basically automatons. I guess that's roughly the same as it used to be, but apparently there is more emphasis in the sentience of the higher Necrons now (hence the named Lords).
Yup thats nailed that one
2) C'Tan are still in the codex...sort of. They have been moved to the Elites section and are now a single unit choice, but with variable upgrade powers you can take.
no honestly there not otherwise youll see khorne in the csm dex next
wont coment on rules
6) Destroyers now count as jump infantry and there is a new Fast Attack Jetbike unit called Tomb Blades.
not unles they get a masive redsesign and as the sprues are done n dusted im not sure thats acurate
7) Immortals are now a Troops choice. Pariahs are gone. Flayed Ones are Elites.
only with a charecter
8) There are indeed 6 named characters (although I have no more info on them). There is also a Necron Overlord and a bodyguard unit called Crypteks. Crypteks can be split off before the game to lead units of Necrons, very similar to Wolf Guard in the Space Wolves codex. Crypteks can take a bunch of different technology upgrades, so there is kind of a way now to have personalized squad leaders in a Necron army.
thats really odd that was called pariahs.... so im inclined to agree, there was quite a few charecters though
....all ill say is sky chariot ... but transports.....not sure since they can teleport everywhere they need any, but nothing in ive read says they get so many
12) In the Elites section there is a big new walker. It has a heat ray that that is either a melta or flamer depending on what you want to do. Any unit hit by this vehicle is marked (as in: laser targeted), which means that all other necrons count as being twin-linked for shooting at the marked enemy unit that turn.
he was heavy support last time i saw it
noyt trying to say your wrong or anything or come across a arogant, its just in the version i have seen
I like Tuska's fluff. It is a very orky thing for him to do, regardless of whether there was anything to ..um..target there
The going back in time to get another copy of his favorite shoota is also very orky. Orks don't generally think of consequences
Their attitude to all activities is 'y'all watch this now...'
Wazdakka's fluff is pretty OTT i'll agree, but it's more believable than certain recent bits of Imperial fluff, in that it' s technically physically possible
Whats not possible in recent imperial codex's? bearing in mind we are set in a universe far in the future where another dimension to the material one basically lets you bend the rules!
The Dwarf Wolf wrote:If thing keep coming this way, we can even expect the "tranportagon", a big flying tyranid, who transport othere nids, and count as a jetbike (with T6 and 3 wounds).
Again, Tyranids already HAVE a transport bug thanks to Epic.
Kanluwen wrote:Or the Grey Knights using a ritualistic measure to ensure they're shielded from a Warp phenomenon to ensure they can get to the Daemon at the center of it all, etc etc.
So now you're defending the balls-to-the-wall moronic slaughter of Sisters to make the already pure GK's more pure?
Kanluwen wrote:I could go on, but I think my point is clear.
Kanluwen wrote:Or the Grey Knights using a ritualistic measure to ensure they're shielded from a Warp phenomenon to ensure they can get to the Daemon at the center of it all, etc etc.
So now you're defending the balls-to-the-wall moronic slaughter of Sisters to make the already pure GK's more pure?
Kanluwen wrote:I could go on, but I think my point is clear.
Yes. Apologist ad absurdum.
Yea that one got me too. They are un-taintable right? Thats my understanding of them anyways
Kanluwen wrote:Or the Grey Knights using a ritualistic measure to ensure they're shielded from a Warp phenomenon to ensure they can get to the Daemon at the center of it all, etc etc.
So now you're defending the balls-to-the-wall moronic slaughter of Sisters to make the already pure GK's more pure?
And yet, it's still not as dumb as an Ork castrating a Daemon.
Kanluwen wrote:I could go on, but I think my point is clear.
Yes. Apologist ad absurdum.
Sorry, I forgot where I am.
*Rabble rabble rabble!*
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KingCracker wrote:
Yea that one got me too. They are un-taintable right? Thats my understanding of them anyways
Haven't we been through this repeatedly?
We don't know what the "Bloodtide" or the associated "Goreflood" do.
Grey Knights are untaintable in a spiritual sense. They are not, however, untaintable in a flesh and bone sense.
If they were, then we'd not have seen one completely dessicated during the Siege of Vraks by a Great Unclean One.
I have a feeling the new warriors won't look too different from the old warriors. To get good sales from peoples who already have necron armies in 5e the best way is to make a new transport option, suddenly they need 8 transports for their elites/troops in total and a few new models from the new range that will come out... just saying.
Moopy wrote:I disagree with the transport haters. I get the idea of a teleport army (not hard to grasp) but all infantry (or infantry like) is very dull.
Dull, I can't say. But I daresay once you've mastered consequence-free teleportation, I suspect the days of riding around in a buggy which could become your tomb at any second are probably behind you for good, yes?
I guess it would really all depend on the rules for the transport. If they were like one of the previous posters ideas where the vehicle is merely a moving portal and nobody is actually "inside" it then that's also quite cool.
Visually when I look at an army I'd like to play, I like to see a variety of different shapes and sizes. Too much infantry is dull. All vehicles are dull. A mix looks great.
blaktoof wrote:I have a feeling the new warriors won't look too different from the old warriors. To get good sales from peoples who already have necron armies in 5e the best way is to make a new transport option, suddenly they need 8 transports for their elites/troops in total and a few new models from the new range that will come out... just saying.
I don't really see much of a reason for new Warriors to be honest. They're not bad models, they just need more poses.
The transport thing is definitely feasible though. I do have to wonder, however, if there's something missing.
The transports could very easily start with a specific squad--but then allow for different squads to use it to 'gate' through.
One of the main reasons I went for Necrons was that I didn't need to field any vehicles (I did choose get a monolith as a present once though)... I hope I still have that option...
i heard a rumor the necrons are getting a fast skimmer transport with AV 12, immune to melta weapons, and can carry 12 normal models and a walker in the back. its gonna be called a "death raven"..
H.B.M.C. wrote:So now you're defending the balls-to-the-wall moronic slaughter of Sisters to make the already pure GK's more pure?
Ya know... I really think if it was worded that the Sisters sacrificed themselves for it, it would have made a LOT more sense... according to all the fluff that is out there on the sisters (which isn't much, admittedly...), it seems in character for that to have happened instead.
Oh well, opportunity squandered imo.
As for the Necrons... I'm starting to think my Necron underdog army might get too much of a boost for me to find them interesting :(
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Dont we have the Mycetic Spore now arleady?
Yes and sometimes we even use it...but we don't talk about it ...seeing as it costs more than a drop pod, is toughness 4/ 4+ and therefore auto dies to everything in the game, and you can't attach IC to units that utilize it.
The bloodtide is nanotechnology that rips a person asunder creating a tide of blood, it is entirely mechanical at least that is what the Hunt for Voldorius says at least.
Mar wrote:The bloodtide is nanotechnology that rips a person asunder creating a tide of blood, it is entirely mechanical at least that is what the Hunt for Voldorius says at least.
And as someone pointed out in another thread, we don't know if that is the same Bloodtide mentioned in the GK book.
True but even if its some other kind of blood tide like one that corrupts it says in the book that the grey knights are not corruptible but that they have never been corrupted the concept was discussed elsewhere on dakka in the fluff section I believe so using a martyr of pure soul would help further. you can't say this is crazy when some many things occur in this universe that show its the norm either in my opinion.
15-man skimmer transport sounds like a Valkyrie-sized base vehicle to me, which I would probably enjoy the look of.
I don't like the idea of Necrons -needing- traditional transports, but if boots on the ground is still viable or gets more viable in future editions, I don't think it's a bad thing to have extra choices. Especially if we don't see another Necron codex until 2020.
Speaking of not waiting, what has settled out for them actually being released? Still Oct/Nov?
There's an 'Ardboyz qualifier at my local store mid-August, was hoping the new stuff would be out by then, but since the guesses keep being for closer to November I suspect I'll miss it.
Well with the Pariahs gone I never bought any so from that stand point I am ok, fluff wise I am eh. Necrons need long range, I faced a mechanized IG army and they blew me away with range considering I couldn't shoot past 24". Transports are meh as long as I can still shoot double shots, but if they are moving portals where they can go in one and come out the other side of the map would make pinning a necron player down on one side of the board a pain in the ass for the enemy.
While all these rumors that keep coming out are interesting so many come out that counter what someone posts the week before. I am hoping GW releases something soon to at least to wet our mouths a littlebit.
Considering i already used Pariahs as a sort of honor guard for a lord, changing them to 'Crypteks' is not a big deal.
The main thing that drew me to building a 'cron army in the first place was simplicity. I don't want to keep track of multiple weapons in a squad. A machine army would be pretty close to identically loaded, with radically different units based on specialization (ie: destroyers vs warriors).
They were nameless and faceless. Exactly what you would expect out of an Army of the Dead. There doesn't need to be a "lord of the Golden Whippoorwill" for example. Fluff wise, the 'crons were jacked the day they joined with the c'tan after all; so screw individuality.
Regarding transports:
I can see absolutely no reason for an army with the advanced ability to teleport onto a battle field to have normal transport units. That's not exactly true, I can understand Marines doing this simply because the teleporters aren't exactly 100% accurate. However, I can't see a machine army millions of years old with nearly perfect technology doing this.
Regarding walkers:
Um.. No. If it's a machine army, then it stands to reason that they would just build a larger autonomous machine. I thought the Tomb Stalker was perfect. They aren't going to build some sort of giant robot thing that another robot thing is going to sit in.
My point is, 'crons shouldn't be like everyone else. They have a unique fighting style that should be embraced.
For example, the dark eldar style makes absolute sense: Up close and personal with a knife twist. If caught in the open they're paste.
For tyranids: death through a thousand nibbles or a pincer through the heart. Cut off the head though and they're mindless.
For 'crons it should be: appear out of nowhere and shoot you in the face with a disintegrator. If you knock my head off, no worries, I'll pick it up then shoot you again. Slow, pondering and tough as nails.
grmpf wrote:I didn't know that sky chariots were mentionned in Dark Eldar fluff. What is said exactly?
And Tomb Kings? What is the link with 40K and Necrons?
Tomb Kings (chariot mentioned in the background text in the main 8th edition rulebook)
yakface wrote:No surprise here, but Necrons are still essentially Tomb Kings in space fluff wise.
Dark Eldar Venom entry:
So it is that the most devious Dark Eldar ride to war upon craft no larger than the Vypers of the Eldar Craftworlds, or the sky-chariots of the ancient Eldar empire that preceded them.
I love the idea of Tough, super tech warbots teleporting onto and throughout the table. Problem is in reality it doesn't work well.
Fluff wise : How do you fight an enemy who can literally appear and start shooting, anywhere, anytime, with absolutely no warning? And their nigh indestructible and self repairing to boot. And if you do put up stiff resistance, they can either instantly teleport in more support to overwhelm you, or disappear, and pop back in later, when your defenses are down.
Game wise : We recently got a codex where a couple units can do a 30" teleport once per game, with no deviation. And even though they can't assault after finishing up such a move, the ability, once per game, to suddenly contest an objective, concentrate firepower, catch that harrassing unit, and generally take advantage of the ability to instantly move half the table in distance is considerably potent that there's a reason they limited it to just once per game. Being able to do it throughout the game would be devestating.
Financially speaking : teleporting warriors doesn't sell models to people who already have 100+, transports to put them in does.
dancingcricket wrote:Fluff wise : How do you fight an enemy who can literally appear and start shooting, anywhere, anytime, with absolutely no warning? And their nigh indestructible and self repairing to boot. And if you do put up stiff resistance, they can either instantly teleport in more support to overwhelm you, or disappear, and pop back in later, when your defenses are down.
That's the point. Few worlds are Tomb Worlds, but those that are are vulnerable precisely because the Necrons are such a threat.
Game wise : We recently got a codex where a couple units can do a 30" teleport once per game, with no deviation. And even though they can't assault after finishing up such a move, the ability, once per game, to suddenly contest an objective, concentrate firepower, catch that harrassing unit, and generally take advantage of the ability to instantly move half the table in distance is considerably potent that there's a reason they limited it to just once per game. Being able to do it throughout the game would be devestating.
That's not how Necron teleportation works (it's not how GK teleportation worked either, until Ward screwed it up). With the exception of the Lord's Veil of Darkness, Necrons either teleport from a shipborne Portal or to a tomb or Monolith. They don't just hop around at will.
Financially speaking : teleporting warriors doesn't sell models to people who already have 100+, transports to put them in does.
No. Characterful additions sells more Necrons. Turning them into another goddamn flavour of Marine does not.
It does seem more likely to me that there would be less problems transporting in a large number of of robots than teleporting, just less chance of things going wrong. Teleporting is cool, but just not that practical if you think about it.
But if I could vote on it, it would be for the mobile portal Monolith style option, over the Droid army transport method, although they both equal pretty much the same thing.
I'm quite disappointed with these rumours. I want Immortals to be ELITE and rip the faces off of Terminators.
And Pariahs? I was hoping they would be redeemed in the new release, what of people who have invested hundreds in building a full unit of these guys for the current rule set? It's a bad move to simply erase them.
Transports...ugh. I don't want transports, I wanted phasing teleportation like gear. I loved the idea of the unstoppable march of the Necrons. Love the Jes Goodwin concept though, seems like a ponderous transport that phases units onto the battlefield, which is fluffy.
The new 5+ WBB thing sounds bad currently, but hopefully that's what Resurrection Orbs will fix.
Now for the C'tan as Elites...*raises arms in despair* WARDDDDDD!!!!!!!!
Wow, was there a necron codex in fourth edition that I didn't get? In my codex, there are only two unit types that have the deep strike rule granted to them by "teleportation" and one piece of wargear. Flayed ones, the Monolith and the Veil of Darkness. While the monolith had the power to "teleport" necron units to itself, this was not done using the Deep Strike rules. Some might argue that the "phase out" rule was a special sort of teleportation. Well, if it was so great, why did they walk around and only use it when they were 3/4 dead? Maybe personal teleportation was not something thAt the Necrons had completely mastered, and so was reserved for larger vehicles and elite units?
Also, while Black library produces some great work of fiction set in the 40k universe, they ARE NOT official 40k Supplements and therefore cannot be considered cannon as compared to the background material and short stories found in actually game materials.
Someone said that they didn't like the idea of having a walker in a necron army because they didn't like the idea of a robot driving a robot. So why would they? The chaos defiler is a walker and has no separate pilot, why should a necron walker just not be a larger necron?
Some people posting in this thread need to stop, listen and analyze, this is all just speculation and rumors after all. Enough with knee-jerk reaction to hypotheticals.
Adam LongWalker wrote:Answer: WARD + writing = [sound of a cuckoo clock]
Fixed it for you.
Thanks for the fix. I like it
It has mentioned that 5E means Vehicle heavy army. Those who have been in this hobby (Grognards) for so very long has seen those changes and so some this is disconcerting, myself included. Necrons will (probably) have vehicles, a very cookie cutter concept is what I see.
Someone mentioned the Necrons are Tomb Kings in space. Yes with the Following exception. Cruddace Wrote a codex that is playable!. Nicely Playable! A codex that kept the theme of the previous codex. To me this is the first codex in a very long time that I did not have to shelf models away because of nerfing/removing models from one of my armies. I am going to buy MORE models not because that I need to make my army competitive again, because I WANT too buy more models because they are beautiful and will fit my theme.
With Ward? You already got your answer by myself and "the many" who play this game.
Does Matt Ward deserve the amount of hatred he recieves? No, not really. Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of fluff? No. Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of rules? No.
About half of all Matt Ward haterz have never read the Grey Knight codex that a lot of the hatredz has been based upon recently. The codex rules are balanced and inkeeping with the Grey Knight image. The fluff has one bad part, the rest is fine.
The Blood Angels codex is balanced but has only one bad rule. The fluff is good in general except for one STORY, ie. not important to the actual background of the Blood Angels.
The Space Marine codex is balanced. The fluff is slightly worse, but generally acceptable in a generalisation of The Astartes.
dancingcricket wrote:Fluff wise : How do you fight an enemy who can literally appear and start shooting, anywhere, anytime, with absolutely no warning? And their nigh indestructible and self repairing to boot. And if you do put up stiff resistance, they can either instantly teleport in more support to overwhelm you, or disappear, and pop back in later, when your defenses are down.
That's the point. Few worlds are Tomb Worlds, but those that are are vulnerable precisely because the Necrons are such a threat.
Game wise : We recently got a codex where a couple units can do a 30" teleport once per game, with no deviation. And even though they can't assault after finishing up such a move, the ability, once per game, to suddenly contest an objective, concentrate firepower, catch that harrassing unit, and generally take advantage of the ability to instantly move half the table in distance is considerably potent that there's a reason they limited it to just once per game. Being able to do it throughout the game would be devestating.
That's not how Necron teleportation works (it's not how GK teleportation worked either, until Ward screwed it up). With the exception of the Lord's Veil of Darkness, Necrons either teleport from a shipborne Portal or to a tomb or Monolith. They don't just hop around at will.
Read FoD and Dead Men Walking, Necrons Do just pop around like that. It's part of their new phase technology I guess. One way to catch patrol groups off guard was have Flayed Ones pop out of rubble, scare the hell out of people, and then phase in some Warriors behind everyone to cut them down as they either ran or fought
Perturabo's Chosen wrote:Wow, was there a necron codex in fourth edition that I didn't get? In my codex, there are only two unit types that have the deep strike rule granted to them by "teleportation" and one piece of wargear. Flayed ones, the Monolith and the Veil of Darkness. While the monolith had the power to "teleport" necron units to itself, this was not done using the Deep Strike rules. Some might argue that the "phase out" rule was a special sort of teleportation. Well, if it was so great, why did they walk around and only use it when they were 3/4 dead? Maybe personal teleportation was not something thAt the Necrons had completely mastered, and so was reserved for larger vehicles and elite units?
Also, while Black library produces some great work of fiction set in the 40k universe, they ARE NOT official 40k Supplements and therefore cannot be considered cannon as compared to the background material and short stories found in actually game materials.
Throughout the Codex it makes references to teleportation. And until the Grey Knights Codex, they were the only ones who could teleport at all once on the battlefield, with the exception of Warp Spiders (who are routinely lost in the jump).
But I think more the point was that, rules-wise, Necrons have no transports. But they can still move their units around the battlefield with something other than their own propulsion. This is done, in each case, through teleportation. 0 transports and >0 teleportation rules seems to me like a teleportation-to-get-around army rather than a transport-to-get-around army.
sexiest_hero wrote:Yak is the man. Haters gonna hate. When did gamers get so negative?
There have been an awful lot of posts, of late in this thread, expressing this sentiment. And, don't get me wrong, I get where you're coming from: we all love 40k, theoretically at least, so why wouldn't be be excited? The problem I see with that perspective it assumes there is a 2 way street of good faith. That is not the situation, however. In practice, GWS in general and Mat Ward in specific have squandered their good will by their past shenanigans. The opprobrium they are getting is less "ward hate for no reason at all, just because it's the internet and it's cool" and more to do with "their scant track record of releasing functional rules and non-stupid backstory indicates they are likely to bungle the launch of a long-awaited update."
You see it as haters gonna hate. A better analogy, I daresay, would be an employee wondering why his boss is always on his case just because he came in late 6 times in the last 2 weeks. To not see how significantly, even wholly, GWS has fuelled the current negativity would be wearing rose-tinted glasses, in my opinion. They have sowed the incompetent, and now must reap the nerdrage.
Perturabo's Chosen wrote:Wow, was there a necron codex in fourth edition that I didn't get? In my codex, there are only two unit types that have the deep strike rule granted to them by "teleportation" and one piece of wargear. Flayed ones, the Monolith and the Veil of Darkness. While the monolith had the power to "teleport" necron units to itself, this was not done using the Deep Strike rules. Some might argue that the "phase out" rule was a special sort of teleportation. Well, if it was so great, why did they walk around and only use it when they were 3/4 dead? Maybe personal teleportation was not something thAt the Necrons had completely mastered, and so was reserved for larger vehicles and elite units?
Also, while Black library produces some great work of fiction set in the 40k universe, they ARE NOT official 40k Supplements and therefore cannot be considered cannon as compared to the background material and short stories found in actually game materials.
Someone said that they didn't like the idea of having a walker in a necron army because they didn't like the idea of a robot driving a robot. So why would they? The chaos defiler is a walker and has no separate pilot, why should a necron walker just not be a larger necron?
Some people posting in this thread need to stop, listen and analyze, this is all just speculation and rumors after all. Enough with knee-jerk reaction to hypotheticals.
this should be applied to everything imho.
*warning* venting:
i dont like many things in my ba codex, does it mean i dont play them, HECK NO! i love ba and just avoid using the units i dont like. i understand alot of you guys love the fluff but i mean this is a game and thus the rules should be your biggest draw. sure, i have a fluff army i want to play, but i dont ever expect to win both side. i lucked out and love the blood angels in both categories. im still waiting on sob, thats my preferred army but currently dont want to build it because of costs of building them and the fact that they are all metal. even if there is a walker in the necron codex and it bothers you enough to not play them, you obviously dont want to play necrons to begin with.
/vent
i want necrons out for 1 reason, my friend wants to use them. this is his favorite army and he cant use them in the current codex. he sure can use them if he wants, but we tried for awhile and he just lost every time.
to actually put something in here more about the post above : i run into alot of misconceptions about rules especially on codex's that not many use (deamonhunters, witchhunters, and necrons mostly)
Perturabo's Chosen wrote:Wow, was there a necron codex in fourth edition that I didn't get? In my codex, there are only two unit types that have the deep strike rule granted to them by "teleportation" and one piece of wargear. Flayed ones, the Monolith and the Veil of Darkness. While the monolith had the power to "teleport" necron units to itself, this was not done using the Deep Strike rules. Some might argue that the "phase out" rule was a special sort of teleportation. Well, if it was so great, why did they walk around and only use it when they were 3/4 dead? Maybe personal teleportation was not something thAt the Necrons had completely mastered, and so was reserved for larger vehicles and elite units?
The basic Necron raider is teleported into battle via a teleporting Monolith, wields a teleporter gun, and is teleported back to the tomb when heavily damaged. In Battlefleet Gothic, they've got better teleporters than everyone else, and in Dawn of War they can teleport to any Necron building.
yakface wrote:
12) In the Elites section there is a big new walker. It has a heat ray that that is either a melta or flamer depending on what you want to do.
Game-wise and fluff-wise, I don't know how this will turn out so I'm not even going to voice an opinion on that aspect of the discussion. On the other hand, I like the idea of possible new models.
I actually started with model cars way back when and loved it. Things got boring eventually, because I ran out of models I wanted to make.
When I discovered 40K about thirteen years later, I found interest in it because of the hobby aspect of it all. And that's why I got into miniature war gaming.
So to me, them offering new models to assemble convert and paint is a good thing. If I don't like the model, I don't buy it. And same with gaming,if I don't like the unit, I don't use it.
When I play, it's for fun with my girlfriend or nephew so it doesn't matter too much to me if I win or lose.
I understand that many here are competitive players, so they may not have the luxury of not including this or that in their army list because they don't like it... hopefully if these rumors hold water, they won't ruin the game for them.
Anyways, I like the idea of Necron vehicles from the hobbyist standpoint. Here's hopin' they don't screw up the fluff and rules by introducing them.
H.B.M.C. wrote:...but we also get gonzo-bat-gak-insane fluff that will likely involve a Necron Lord carving his name on the Eye of Terror or maybe Blood Angels Tactical Squads as a 0-1 Elites choice or some other such nonsense.
I admit it, I LOL'd at that one!
I have to admit, I did too. I keep envisioning the fourth C'Tan with a chair for a head, firing a big gauss-laser of awesome and writing his name across the Eye.
iproxtaco wrote:Does Matt Ward deserve the amount of hatred he recieves?
No, not really.
Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of fluff?
No.
Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of rules?
No.
About half of all Matt Ward haterz have never read the Grey Knight codex that a lot of the hatredz has been based upon recently. The codex rules are balanced and inkeeping with the Grey Knight image. The fluff has one bad part, the rest is fine.
The Blood Angels codex is balanced but has only one bad rule. The fluff is good in general except for one STORY, ie. not important to the actual background of the Blood Angels.
The Space Marine codex is balanced. The fluff is slightly worse, but generally acceptable in a generalisation of The Astartes.
One, you can't write a broken set of fluff,the term doesn't even make sense. What you can do is write bad fluff, which he does on a regular basis
Two , yes he has, I need to point no further than the 7th edition Daemons of Chaos, which singlehandedly brought the entire game down on its knees.
I've also read the Grey Knights codex and I gurantee you theres more than one bad bit in it
Psychic powers being linked to sorcery, Blood tides, Draigo, Castellan crowe, purifiers somehow being more pure than Grey Knights who are already supposedly pure, Mordrak and his ghost knights, the god damn Dreadknight
I could go on but I think the point is made
It has its good bits no doubt, but christ the bad bits are like some sort of overpowering stench, hanging over it making you ignore them
I dont get why people feel the need to defend Matt Ward? Hes a big boy now, he wont be reduced to tears just because we dont like his work
The fact is with his track record, being worried about what he might do here is a valid concern at this point, hes already proven he can't do a good job with the fluff multiple times
H.B.M.C. wrote:
As for the Necrons... I'm starting to think my Necron underdog army might get too much of a boost for me to find them interesting :(
This.
This x 1000.
I love my necrons as they are. I love people telling me they have a weak codex, and then there are 'surprise' upsets. I am going to be pissed off if the fllavour and dynamic of the army gets 'tyranids'd, and i have to go and buy all of the new units for a chance to win.
In that event they will be shelved, and i will pull my guard back out, or start something different all together.
As far as WBB goes, that is a kick to the nuts. 5+ instead of 4+. a res orb is always in range of my units, so the 'only in combat' thing wouldn't effect me anyway.
Can it be rerolled through the portal? again, not as good as 4+ & 4+.
Phase out is gone; doesn't bother me at all, only lost to phase a couple of times, and by then i was neutered anyway.
I hope that both these rumours and the other ones are very light, as they both have the potential to be awesome, but have a much greater potential to horribly ruin the army, and to malign and alienate its fanbase
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Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:
Agreed. Like a smaller Monolith that is just used for the portal.
yes, but GW is crazy about security (they copyrighted everything, including the word space marine i think, as well as the whole "grimdark" thing) no one dares make anything similar to their products (except Blizzard) for fear of getting sued. Mis-information can also be a security measure.
mondo80 wrote:yes, but GW is crazy about security (they copyrighted everything, including the word space marine i think, as well as the whole "grimdark" thing) no one dares make anything similar to their products (except Blizzard) for fear of getting sued. Mis-information can also be a security measure.
thats cuz some guys from blizz worked at gw before hand.
I had always heard that it was because GW had been working with Blizz to make a 40KRTS. GW changed their mind and pulled out. Blizz had most of the game done, changed some stuff a little, and ended up with Starcraft.
But I've not seen anything official on it.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:I had always heard that it was because GW had been working with Blizz to make a 40KRTS. GW changed their mind and pulled out. Blizz had most of the game done, changed some stuff a little, and ended up with Starcraft.
But I've not seen anything official on it.
It looks like they did this twice, warcraft > fantasy, starcraft > 40k but only 3 races
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:I had always heard that it was because GW had been working with Blizz to make a 40KRTS. GW changed their mind and pulled out. Blizz had most of the game done, changed some stuff a little, and ended up with Starcraft.
But I've not seen anything official on it.
It looks like they did this twice, warcraft > fantasy, starcraft > 40k but only 3 races
so the reason i got into this conversation with a bunch of gw guys was cuz im like, "omg i want necrons they look just like undead. the monolith looks just like the necropolis." then we just get into this whole conversation about it and i find out that some blizz employees left gw to make warcraft and starcraft.
when they showed the "new" units video for sc2 i fell out of my chair cuz of the jump infantry and heavy weapon walker that terran were getting. o and i refer to terran, zerg, and protoss as sm, nids, and eldar all the damn time ever i started 40k. i did this online and this guy swore so much cuz i called his zerg rush a nid horde
ok ken, sorry for pissing you off. I didn't mean to derail this thread into a blizz vs GW war, im just saying that gw could have done fake lists/playtests as an act of misinformation so their codex could be a surpise.
mondo80 wrote:ok ken, sorry for pissing you off. I didn't mean to derail this thread into a blizz vs GW war, im just saying that gw could have done fake lists/playtests as an act of misinformation so their codex could be a surpise.
im not pissed, i enjoy talking about this its such a stupid and blatant rip and they built their entire company on it. im a professional derailer btw
... i dont have anything to say to put us back on topic though o.O
Kurgash wrote:But the original doesn't let GW sell us unnecessary transports for an army that mastered phase technology.
No, but . . . but. . . but . . . umm. . . I was not trying to bring that up just mentioning some other travesties that may help avert future catastrophies.
I really don't understand why people are so scared of change. Would you prefer to have no Necrons, no SoB, no Dark Eldar, no Chaos, etc. (Granted you would have squats instead) and go back to RT days? Change alters things that's the very foundation of change. Sure all change isn't good but it keeps the momentum going which is a great thing for the hobby.
Agamemnon2 wrote:I think it's time to stick GW the big middle finger and walk away. These rumors sound too idiotic even for their low standards.
I just realized i have played only a single game of 40k in all of 2011. I don't need it anymore. :-D I'm free, I'm finally free!
Personally I don't get what 'hate' their is towards these rumors. What exactly do you find so idiotic? And as for 40k in general, if it no longer interests you, then certainly godspeed with whatever other games give you pleasure, but for my money 40k is in the best place its been since the 3rd edition revamp (when all the codexes were wiped out and all the armies were in the main rulebook). Except for the couple of super-old codexes (and the first few 'new-style' codexes like the Dark Angels and CSM), you can pick up any codex and make at least 3 different nicely competitive builds, and if you're into fluff then the army lists are open enough to create unique fluffy lists if you like limiting yourself based on background.
But back to Necrons, again what is so terrible about these rumors (and BTW, all my speculation below is just speculation, not based on any additional rumors that I haven't shared)?
For the 'new' WBB rule, I was dreading seeing yet another army with Feel No Pain yet the existing WBB rule is just TERRIBLE to play with. The new rule seems like a nice compromise. While its only on a 5+ now instead of a 4+, the fact that you get to take that save against any type of weaponry means that in certain situations its going to net you about the same amount of resiliency that the current WBB does, in some situations it will net you less and in some situations it will net you more. Also, the opponent knows exatly what he needs to do to cancel out the save (wipe the unit out or break it), so the old strategy of pounding on individual Necron units until you wipe them out remains in place. And we have no idea what units have the 'ever-living' rule or if there are any things that provide that rule to other units (maybe like the resurrection Orb?), so there may be plenty of different ways to help bolster this new WBB rule in the army.
And the rumors indicate that at least one of the new transports will help regenerate dead guys, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few different things in the army that now do that...so that's a different kind of resurrection dynamic now added to the army.
With Gauss Weaponry not being rending, again that's kind of a relief. Making the entire army have rending would have likely meant they were just too potent. Instead they've left Gauss with the auto-glance rule (which isn't too powerful with 5th edition damage tables), but in order to make up for this, it sounds like they're getting a much wider diversity of weapon types that will allow them to fill the gaps. So instead of just having about 3 different weapon types in the whole army, they now have a bit of different things for people to play with.
Phase out, while fluffy just didn't work for things like tournaments, and should really be relegated to things like Apocalypse or fun games (so I'm glad its gone).
Destroyers moving to Jump Infantry makes sense if they've added a bunch of Jetbikes and Fast Skimmers to the army (as it sounds like they've had). Before the Destroyers were the 'fast' element of the army. But if that role has been taken over by other things, it makes sense from a diverse gameplay perspective to have Destroyers move into a slightly slower role...and really the only big change is that they can't turbo-boost (but now you have other stuff that can move that fast instead).
Immortals as a troops choice should be fine. Just as with every other codex, it sounds like you'll be able to go with a more Elite style Necron army or a wall of Necron warrior army...you'll have the choice and hopefully both units will have distinct advantages (likely point cost vs. effectiveness) that will make you want to take one over the other.
Having named characters and making the upper echelons more sentiment sounds cool to me, mainly because it will add a bunch of much needed flavor and backstory into the army. While they are automatons, they are also supposed to be the remains of an ancient civilization and there's no reason their great champions still can't have distinct and flavorful histories and special rules.
As for adding vehicles...everyone is assuming that the 'fluff' behind the transports is that they carry Necrons. One indication I've gotten is that the theme behind least one of the new transports is still teleportation based. So while it may behave like a typical transport, the look and fluff behind it would still be that the unit is teleporting in using the vehicle's node (perhaps it has a limited node and can only lock onto so many models at a time?). And with the other vehicle which is apparently actually carting models around, perhaps this is the Lord/Retinue ride? Kind of like a super chariot where his entourage and him swoop around killing people? Again, people are somehow assuming that because the Necrons now have transport vehicles it somehow means they don't teleport anymore. But why can't the Lord & his entourage teleport down to the surface before the battle on their ride? Why would EVERYTHING in the army have to teleport instead of being carried? Why can't some stuff teleport and some stuff ride around in a killer ride?
I don't see the problem. I personally thought the Necron army as a whole just lacked diversity and it sounds like they're getting quite a few new units, so I think its great. There's only so many different ways you can have armored robots walking or flying around, so frankly a slew of new vehicles is really the natural direction to go to add new units to the range.
And having Crypteks (the Lord's retinue) that are more sentient than your standard Necron warrior being attached to units is exactly what I was hoping the army would have. It allows your plain jane Necron units to have a bit of difference while still keeping the basic premise that your Warrior units are all the same...its just a Cryptek has broken off to lead the unit that makes the difference between unit A and unit B.
But as always, it will ultimately come down to how the new models fit in the range. If they pull off the look of the new stuff, I don't see why the army can't finally be both unique from other armies AND more fun to play (as you now have much more diversity amongst your units as a Necron player).
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mondo80 wrote:Does yakface work for GW? the last faq for necrons was written by him.
kenzosan wrote:
mondo80 wrote:Does yakface work for GW? the last faq for necrons was written by him.
if so, that puts alot of credibility to his rumors
I do not, nor have I ever worked for Games Workshop. They 'thanked' me in some of their previous FAQs, that is quite a bit different from me writing them (I did not write any FAQs for GW).
Savis wrote:I really don't understand why people are so scared of change. Would you prefer to have no Necrons, no SoB, no Dark Eldar, no Chaos, etc. (Granted you would have squats instead) and go back to RT days? Change alters things that's the very foundation of change. Sure all change isn't good but it keeps the momentum going which is a great thing for the hobby.
This is a false dilemma. Stagnation and degeneration are not the only two options available.
I can't really see a 'climb in and go' transport for the Necrons, it just doesn't sit right to me. But if they're teleport based, I'd be perfectly fine with it. Semantics, but very different for an army such as this.
I'd also prefer not to see the Pariahs leave, just reworked to fit cc units nowadays. Though i could see them as that new 'bodyguard-esque' unit, the Crypteks
if its a portal type 'trasport' that will be fine, but a necron rhino? If its a necron rhino who wants 9000 points of necrons including 7 monoliths and a pylon?
iproxtaco wrote:Does Matt Ward deserve the amount of hatred he recieves?
No, not really.
Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of fluff?
No.
Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of rules?
No.
Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of rules?
Yes, Daemons of Chaos army book. Singlehandedly ended fair competitive play in 7th edition.
Fixed with 8th edition rules, whose magic makes fair competitive play nearly impossible with all other armies as well.
Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of fluff?
Grey Knights Codex. Draigo.
Grey Knight planet hiding in the warp.
Grey Knights resisting the temptation of the Blood God by slaughtering Sororitas and bathing in their blood.
Making them work for all Inquisition branches.
Making an Inquisition force legal that consists almost completely of Xenos, non-communicative and non-controllable Xenos to be precise (with no explanation deemed necessary).
Does Matt Ward deserve the amount of hatred he recieves?
Well, he honestly earned some of it
Yeah, Ward is playing 40k on a different planet than the rest of us. I don't hate the guy but he seriously needs an editor that knows at least something about the 40k universe. It would make his writing easier to swallow.
I'm 100% excited about new models, to be sure. I'm mostly excited about new rules, because as the last few codexes have shown, it means Necrons will be the new OMGWTFBBQ unit, and that's kinda cool.
Mr Yak, sir, have you heard anything re basic stats changes for necron units?
One of the commonest complaints I've heard over the years is the fact that a basic warrior is effectively a MEq, when it would make sense for a robot to have, well, _something_ significantly different compared to a marine. What that difference would actually be is a fascinating question - BS5? WS2? T6 and no armour save?
I for one would really like them to not be so MEq...
yakface wrote:
For the 'new' WBB rule, I was dreading seeing yet another army with Feel No Pain yet the existing WBB rule is just TERRIBLE to play with. The new rule seems like a nice compromise. While its only on a 5+ now instead of a 4+, the fact that you get to take that save against any type of weaponry means that in certain situations its going to net you about the same amount of resiliency that the current WBB does, in some situations it will net you less and in some situations it will net you more. Also, the opponent knows exatly what he needs to do to cancel out the save (wipe the unit out or break it), so the old strategy of pounding on individual Necron units until you wipe them out remains in place. And we have no idea what units have the 'ever-living' rule or if there are any things that provide that rule to other units (maybe like the resurrection Orb?), so there may be plenty of different ways to help bolster this new WBB rule in the army.
Compromise?Compromise between what?If the rumor turn to be true it will mean that they just broke the rule even more than it was broken before, the major problem in playing necrons was to keep those god damn warriors alive as those were swept in CC thanks to ridiculous Ld modifications and low I, those changes will simply screw them more.
What the hell was about You guys with Yours"pleas don't let them have FnP, not another FnP army"? It is the deffinition of their army,the true core of their background and rules, the core of the atmosphere the army has when You play them or against, they should have the rule similar or even better than FnP, they are self repairing automatons made from living metal, it is like getting of the FnP from the death guard, because "there shouldn't be any more army with this rule", even if the GW would give FnP to another armies necron should get their rule alt least on the level of FnP just because they are necron
Nerd rage knows no bounds. a friend of mine has been playing necrons since their original release and is stoked about this new information. I agree that transports should remain like the monolith (i.e. mobile teleport nodes). Although the idea of a lord on a a sky chariot with a retinue is kinda cool from a modelling pespective. I personally agree with you regarding WBB being a good compromise between overly complicated with certain vulnerabilities and feel no pain. It basically is as someone jested a Ward save. Fortunately it seems to work well and in almost the same manner as it did previously. Most of the changes make sense to me and I'm looking forward to seeing how this may evolve into the finished product.
The bigger new model necrons was in another rumour post so who knows the accruacy but I do hope they are remodelled too similar to the warriors at the moment for me.
Kurgash wrote:But the original doesn't let GW sell us unnecessary transports for an army that mastered phase technology.
Unnecessary transports?
Necrons suck in melee. Why would you want them to teleport into assault range of marines, orks, tyranids, dark eldar and such?
Having a protective transport vehicle with no ceiling, allowing the necron warriors to slowly hover forwars over the battle field at the same, slow tempo of a Necron warrior (6" a time to be able to shoot) and blasting stuff up left to right seems like tremendeously Necrony-image to me.
Note that the transports are not "Fast" as Dark Eldar's are, but skimmers (I do not know of a single necron vehicle, or vehicle-like thing that is not. The monolith is a skimmer, for those of you who have forgotten). And open topped means that they're probably more of a platform, protected by force-fields (the +2ArmorValuethings) shielding the embarked Warriors.
After something like this it feels kind of a dumb idea for a Necron Lord to have his army completley unprotectedagainst tanks, mortars and assault units (to me)
Thing that worries me more is the "Tomb Blade" jetbikes. I got the feeling with both BA and GK-codexes that MW jsut wants to take things from my Dark Eldar and give a better version of it to the codex he's writing ;P . Just hope the don't have a turboboost attack
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"As for the Necrons... I'm starting to think my Necron underdog army might get too much of a boost for me to find them interesting :("
Well, the fact that Necron's are considered "underdogs" are just a product of the newer codexes being good, and their antTank ability being nerfed due to 5th core rules.
Necrons certainly where Never intended, nor designed to be an underdog army. They where upon first release, actually, as I understand it, basically designed to be the "Overdog" army.
Would people stop attributing that quote to me. Or if you must, edit it into a sentence I might actually use, such as:
"As for the Necrons... I'm starting to think M. Night Ward will give them a set of needlessly convoluted and unnecessarily complex yet still competitive and fun rules all the while taking the fluff behind the barn for a good ol' [redacted]ing!"
Savis wrote:Would you prefer to have no Necrons, no SoB, no Dark Eldar, no Chaos, etc. (Granted you would have squats instead) and go back to RT days?
*checks over thread*
Can't really see anyone advocating (let alone suggesting) that. That makes the above statement a bit of a 'strawman argument', don't'cha think?
kaldanesh wrote:Nerd rage knows no bounds
Neither do the continued attempts at dismissing potentially legitimate criticism via the use of slander and labelling.
Kroothawk wrote:Making an Inquisition force legal that consists almost completely of Xenos, non-communicative and non-controllable Xenos to be precise (with no explanation deemed necessary).
And Daemons! Don't forget the fact that you can now have Grey Knights leading squads of Daemons.
This is definitely not what I was hoping for with Necrons. :(
I *like* WBB. Part of the attraction I have to Necrons is their ability to overcome a lack of mobility with teleportation, getting a free WBB in the process. I love throwing wraiths into assault, losing half of them, teleporting them out of combat after two WBBs to go assault something on the other side of the board. Here it looks like instead of a 3++ followed by a 4+ followed by a 4+, its down to a 3++ (presuming they stay the same) followed by a 5++, with nothing else.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Didn't someone from GW say ages back, the Necrons where going to be this rolling thing with each release with more new stuff being added as if the race is slowly waking up?
I really like this idea.
New model ranges, some more character to the army, and who knows we might get some decent background. I will try to be optimistic until the codex arrives
Adam LongWalker wrote:Cruddace Wrote a codex...A codex that kept the theme of the previous codex. To me this is the first codex in a very long time that I did not have to shelf models away because of nerfing/removing models from one of my armies. I am going to buy MORE models not because that I need to make my army competitive again, because I WANT too buy more models because they are beautiful and will fit my theme.
That...doesn't sound like the tyranid codex at all . With Cruddace you either get a real beat stick or a something very arbitrary. With Ward you reliably get strong rule sets. Hell, you even get properly costed MC.
I have a ton of necrons but have not played them in a good while. They became to weak compared to the newer armies my friends and I were collecting, and in the end they were kind of boring army lists. Don't get me wrong I love the idea, or my idea at least, of necrons marching in rows unloading on enemies like the robots from the Terminator movies. I have my prefrences on what I hope to see and not see in the new book, but at least they are getting a new book! I have a Grey Knights army and at first everyone was saying how broken it was and cheesy I was for getting them, but after some games, now people seem to put them around blood angels in power level and that is a good place to aim IMO. If every army tries to out power IG and SW then the game is going to keep spiraling out of control to the point it will soon need a reset of some kind. In fact I don't want my army to be the best broken thing out, I want a good army, with nice build options that I can use my own experience and skill to win with. As for the fluff, yeah some of the codexes have some silly stuff in them, but this game is meant to be over the top, I mean it is the year 40k. So I don't mind some crazy fluff here and there if they just give me a good balanced book. In fact it is the silly crazy fluff that I remember most from many books. I don't know much about orks, but I do know the time traveliling to get your own gun again thing. A lot of people think Draigo's fluff is lame. I kind of saw it that way at first, but now I think of him as a holy Sam Beckett, and I loves me some QL, so it changed my opinion of him. No the book will not be exactly what I want, but I'll latch on to the parts I really like, buy the stuff I need to do so, and roll dice using a new shiny codex. If there is nothing in the book that I like than I'm back where a I currently am, and my army will collect more cobwebs. I'm hoping for the best and excited for anything but the worst, I'm sure it will be somewhere in the middle and that is fine by me.
I'm going to reserve full judgment until I see everything in the codex. Transports I can simply not add to a list. Pariahs being discontinued I can live with, I don't have many. I'm waiting to see the full spectrum of things before I decide how I'll play my little metal bastards. A change in playstyle I welcome as move-shoot-move away from an incoming charge-shoot does get boring after 9 years.
Adam LongWalker wrote:Cruddace Wrote a codex...A codex that kept the theme of the previous codex. To me this is the first codex in a very long time that I did not have to shelf models away because of nerfing/removing models from one of my armies. I am going to buy MORE models not because that I need to make my army competitive again, because I WANT too buy more models because they are beautiful and will fit my theme.
That...doesn't sound like the tyranid codex at all . With Cruddace you either get a real beat stick or a something very arbitrary. With Ward you reliably get strong rule sets. Hell, you even get properly costed MC.
And with Tyranid players you get a sense of entitlement that is ridiculous.
Tyranids were powerful in their previous incarnation. Things were toned down. They are still powerful, but now require a modicum of skill that was previously unnecessary.
Adam LongWalker wrote:Cruddace Wrote a codex...A codex that kept the theme of the previous codex. To me this is the first codex in a very long time that I did not have to shelf models away because of nerfing/removing models from one of my armies. I am going to buy MORE models not because that I need to make my army competitive again, because I WANT too buy more models because they are beautiful and will fit my theme.
That...doesn't sound like the tyranid codex at all . With Cruddace you either get a real beat stick or a something very arbitrary. With Ward you reliably get strong rule sets. Hell, you even get properly costed MC.
Think he was referring to Tomb Kings codex
The odd thing about Tomb Kings is that i have heard next to no discussion about them anywhere, about the quality of it or anything
Its really odd
Adam LongWalker wrote:Cruddace Wrote a codex...A codex that kept the theme of the previous codex. To me this is the first codex in a very long time that I did not have to shelf models away because of nerfing/removing models from one of my armies. I am going to buy MORE models not because that I need to make my army competitive again, because I WANT too buy more models because they are beautiful and will fit my theme.
That...doesn't sound like the tyranid codex at all . With Cruddace you either get a real beat stick or a something very arbitrary. With Ward you reliably get strong rule sets. Hell, you even get properly costed MC.
Think he was referring to Tomb Kings codex
The odd thing about Tomb Kings is that i have heard next to no discussion about them anywhere, about the quality of it or anything
Its really odd
Well you've got Skeletons and you've got Grey Knights. What d'you think's gonna be more interesting?
Here's an idea about the transports, what if they are portal exits?
Basically you can walk into a Monolith and exit from the transport. Basically working the same was as the portal gun in Portal. This would both be fluff and fit the Necrons better than a regular transport with transport capacity.
As for Wards fluff, basically the GK codex confirms that the Sisters of Battle are more pure than the GKs themselves. From the new fluff it would be safe to say the Sisters are better suited to fighting daemons than the GKs are, even without the special training the GKs receive of which only 1 in a million survive. I'm sure the imperium could pump out millions of sisters to fight daemons easily, all they would need is some new wargear to better help them and some updates to their training.
Kanluwen wrote:And with Tyranid players you get a sense of entitlement that is ridiculous. Tyranids were powerful in their previous incarnation. Things were toned down. They are still powerful, but now require a modicum of skill that was previously unnecessary.
True, Tyranids were toned down compared to thier 4th and 3rd edition codices, however, the other fifth edition codices were massively reboosted thanks to the internal bias in the 5th edition BRB towards both vehicles and wound allocation combined with either the reduced cost structure of vehicles or the boost in its powers found in the codices themselves. The result is an edition that favors 3 pinnacles: vehicles (tanks, walkers, and transports), massive ammounts of cheap anti-tank ranged weoponry scattered throughout the organization chart (especially if you can stick them in a transport), and wound allocation. So SW, IG, Orcs, and BA taking the top ranking at tournies are common. Tyranids, however, do not lend themselves well to either of these pinnacles.
Now, can Tyranids still win. Yes, under a superior general who makes little to no mistakes and doesn't suffer poor dice rolls, Tyranids can win. Hulksmash's crusade shows proof to that. But then, I know outstanding generals in Madison and La Crosse who can win with Tau and Necrons. Do we want to imply that just because you can win, that your army is on even footings with SW and the pelethera of powerfull mechanized armies that IG, Orcs, and BA can bring to bear?
Personally, I have no reason to doubt that Necrons will be getting transports as it is a very easy way to increase thier effectiveness in 5th edition and follows the established trend, a trend that I personally despise - though I fully acknowledge that I am in a minority.
In my humble opinion, resculpting most of the models and introducing tonnes of new vehicles is going to make the army unattractive to new players, as Marines look to be cheaper and quite probably more powerful. It is also going to be unattractive to Vets, as a lot of models are now replaced, or their tactics will be changed because of the new units. If these rumours pan out, PM me if you want 3000 points of old style Necrons, 'cos my metal tomb dwellers will die their final death on my battlefields.
Kanluwen wrote:And with Tyranid players you get a sense of entitlement that is ridiculous. Tyranids were powerful in their previous incarnation. Things were toned down. They are still powerful, but now require a modicum of skill that was previously unnecessary.
True, Tyranids were toned down compared to thier 4th and 3rd edition codices, however, the other fifth edition codices were massively reboosted thanks to the internal bias in the 5th edition BRB towards both vehicles and wound allocation combined with either the reduced cost structure of vehicles or the boost in its powers found in the codices themselves. The result is an edition that favors 3 pinnacles: vehicles (tanks, walkers, and transports), massive amounts of cheap anti-tank ranged weaponry scattered throughout the organization chart (especially if you can stick them in a transport), and wound allocation. So SW, IG, Orcs, and BA taking the top ranking at tournies are common. Tyranids, however, do not lend themselves well to either of these pinnacles.
Now, can Tyranids still win. Yes, under a superior general who makes little to no mistakes and doesn't suffer poor dice rolls, Tyranids can win. Hulksmash's crusade shows proof to that. But then, I know outstanding generals in Madison and La Crosse who can win with Tau and Necrons. Do we want to imply that just because you can win, that your army is on even footings with SW and the plethora of powerful mechanized armies that IG, Orcs, and BA can bring to bear?
Which isn't what I 'implied' at all. It was that times change, things get toned down, and it needs to be accepted.
Now, are Tyranids slightly underpowered in the grand scheme of things? Sure. But that's really in a tournament setting. Cruddace writes books that trend more towards the 'casual' gamer. When not fighting tourney lists, 'Nids can do just fine.
Personally, I have no reason to doubt that Necrons will be getting transports as it is a very easy way to increase their effectiveness in 5th edition and follows the established trend, a trend that I personally despise - though I fully acknowledge that I am in a minority.
It wasn't a 'newly established trend'. It's not like mech armies were impossible before this edition. They just weren't as effective.
Back on topic though:
Necrons getting transport is not only "following an established trend"--but it's kind of about time that they get a transport that isn't the Monolith.
First post so forgive me for ranting, Before I get really hacked off with what's being done to the Necrons I would like to see the stat line, I did read somewhere that they were going to be along the lines of Orks but a better save. As for the change to WBB it's clearly not FNP, but I think I would prefer it if it were. I like WBB as it is, not wanting to be wish_listing but maybe the res orb rules should be tweaked.
Scarey Nerd wrote:In my humble opinion, resculpting most of the models and introducing tonnes of new vehicles is going to make the army unattractive to new players, as Marines look to be cheaper and quite probably more powerful. It is also going to be unattractive to Vets, as a lot of models are now replaced, or their tactics will be changed because of the new units. If these rumours pan out, PM me if you want 3000 points of old style Necrons, 'cos my metal tomb dwellers will die their final death on my battlefields.
I don't know, it seemed to work pretty well for the Dark Eldar Codex.
I don't understand all this doom and gloom. These rumors, if true, are barely a foot note in the entire codex. I think people going into doomsday mode need to relax, and honestly people saying they are going to get rid of their army, based on a small selection of rumors before even getting a glance into the codex is beyond silly.
My brain is trying but i can't associate these words together. I'm all for reinventing stuff to make it fresh and cool, but only if the original spirit is preserved. I'll withhold judgement til there's more info but right now I'm just not seeing it.
My brain is trying but i can't associate these words together. I'm all for reinventing stuff to make it fresh and cool, but only if the original spirit is preserved. I'll withhold judgement til there's more info but right now I'm just not seeing it.
Every army adapts, or is slaughtered.
Every General adapts, or dies.
What's more, the Necrons have barely shown a fraction of their force, with "newer" and "better" (ie, more powerful) Necrontyr presenting themselves as more/bigger Tomb Worlds awaken. I can totally accept new units, although I agree that there is a certain point where the 'feel' of an army is lost and it ruins the entire thing.
wyomingfox wrote:
Personally, I have no reason to doubt that Necrons will be getting transports as it is a very easy way to increase their effectiveness in 5th edition and follows the established trend, a trend that I personally despise - though I fully acknowledge that I am in a minority.
It wasn't a 'newly established trend'. It's not like mech armies were impossible before this edition. They just weren't as effective.
.
Erm.. at the risk of sounding like an objectionable twonk, you need to look up the meaning of 'trend' and 'newly established' there I think.
Although I agree with your sentiments that the Nid codex is fine against anyone other than the handful who are at the top of tournaments, you have to cater for the majority, and in that sense I think the biggest issues with that codex are the number of unreleased models, rather than it not being regarded as 'top tier'.
wyomingfox wrote:
Personally, I have no reason to doubt that Necrons will be getting transports as it is a very easy way to increase their effectiveness in 5th edition and follows the established trend, a trend that I personally despise - though I fully acknowledge that I am in a minority.
It wasn't a 'newly established trend'. It's not like mech armies were impossible before this edition. They just weren't as effective.
Erm.. at the risk of sounding like an objectionable twonk, you need to look up the meaning of 'trend' and 'newly established' there I think.
'Newly established trend' fits perfectly if the trend is newly established with this edition
The idea that transports being given to Necrons as a way to increase their effectiveness in 5th edition "following an established trend" is what I was pointing out as the fallacy there.
Mech guard, marines, orks, etc were completely doable before 5th edition. There was nothing given to them that could be construed as an "established trend".
I think that clears it up a bit more, but I may have to rework the phrasing later.
Although I agree with your sentiments that the Nid codex is fine against anyone other than the handful who are at the top of tournaments, you have to cater for the majority, and in that sense I think the biggest issues with that codex are the number of unreleased models, rather than it not being regarded as 'top tier'.
Which is definitely not the same as "the codex is weak!".
iproxtaco wrote:Does Matt Ward deserve the amount of hatred he recieves?
No, not really.
Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of fluff?
No.
Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of rules?
No.
Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of rules?
Yes, Daemons of Chaos army book. Singlehandedly ended fair competitive play in 7th edition.
Fixed with 8th edition rules, whose magic makes fair competitive play nearly impossible with all other armies as well.
Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of fluff?
Grey Knights Codex. Draigo.
Grey Knight planet hiding in the warp.
Grey Knights resisting the temptation of the Blood God by slaughtering Sororitas and bathing in their blood.
Making them work for all Inquisition branches.
Making an Inquisition force legal that consists almost completely of Xenos, non-communicative and non-controllable Xenos to be precise (with no explanation deemed necessary).
Does Matt Ward deserve the amount of hatred he recieves?
Well, he honestly earned some of it
Well, to start with that's Fantasy, this is 40k. If you want to go and complain about Matt Wards efforts in WHFB, go and discuss it in said forum, but this is 40k Background.
Again, Draigo is the only over the top gak in the codex.
Why is the planet hiding in the Warp for protection against the Horus Heresy a bad bit? First time I've seen someone complain.
They don't slaughter and there is no bathing in blood.
They're still the militant forces of the Ordo Malleus. They can join up with other forces form the Inquisition, but they are never described a serving the Inquisition as a whole.
How is that possible? Explain.
I'm not defending the man, he has made several quite bad decisions, Draigo, saying many First Founding Chapters aspire to be the Ultramarines and writing a story about Blood Angles teaming up with Necrons in the Blood Angles own codex are the three fluff related ones. Deep-striking Land Raiders and the dominating effectiveness of psycannons being the two rules that stand out.
gotta say i was pissed when i heard about the sisters thing. i didnt read the fluff for the gk and still havent because that news pissed me off that much. i love sisters and if gw uses that bull as reason to remove sisters, i just might quit. it made no sense. so far i havent liked any of his 40k fluff.
the parts of the ba codex i like are all stuff iv read about from the heresy anyway. o and the omnibus
and if gw uses that bull as reason to remove sisters, i just might quit.
Someone finally figured out that the new background story for the Grey Knights was set-up for permanently discontinuing the entire Sisters Of Battle model range.
and if gw uses that bull as reason to remove sisters, i just might quit.
Someone finally figured out that the new background story for the Grey Knights was set-up for discontinuing the entire Sisters Of Battle model range.
hey im serious. its the only army i actually love. i dont really know why this happens, but i only like female characters. i cant get into games very often unless i can use female characters, and its not a sex thing. the only reason iv come up with over the years is the females are usually long range, bows or magic.
anyway, IF its true. thats just some bull. seriously, wtf! god i can feel the nerdrage boiling. this is bad, i need a break... wheres my copy of kotor <_<
The shark! It has finally been jumped on the whole Mat Ward hate thing!
Seriously. That story is not "an excuse for removing Sisters".
It has been stated, multiple times by Jes Goodwin that he is working on the Sisters range. Phil Kelly has stated multiple times that he is writing the book.
There's also a novel and audiobook slated for release in the not so distant future about the Sisters of Battle.
If that's "removing Sisters", then GW got "removing" confused with "continuing".
And again: people actually need to put the story into context. Grey Knights are said to be "spiritually incorruptible". Their flesh and their armor, however, is not. Walking through a giant tide of warp spawned badness is going to affect both the armor and flesh.
Dashofpepper wrote:This is definitely not what I was hoping for with Necrons. :(
I *like* WBB. Part of the attraction I have to Necrons is their ability to overcome a lack of mobility with teleportation, getting a free WBB in the process. I love throwing wraiths into assault, losing half of them, teleporting them out of combat after two WBBs to go assault something on the other side of the board. Here it looks like instead of a 3++ followed by a 4+ followed by a 4+, its down to a 3++ (presuming they stay the same) followed by a 5++, with nothing else.
Boo.
One of the ways you get your additional 4+ is through a monolith, no? It's fair to assume that it will still have a similar effect in their next Codex. We only know the very basics of the rumours. Or as Yak put so much more eloquently:
yakface wrote: And we have no idea what units have the 'ever-living' rule or if there are any things that provide that rule to other units (maybe like the resurrection Orb?), so there may be plenty of different ways to help bolster this new WBB rule in the army.
And the rumors indicate that at least one of the new transports will help regenerate dead guys, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few different things in the army that now do that...so that's a different kind of resurrection dynamic now added to the army.
I'd like to request that any further posts that rant about Mat Ward but have nothing to do with the Necrons (I know he's supposed to be doing the Codex but it's still not the place) be deleted?
I think it's crazy people are complaining so much when we know VERY LITTLE of what is going to happen with the 'crons. We don't even know if they're next. We have a wide variety of conflicting rumours and nothing is set in stone. I say we listen to what is rumoured but bear in mind that it's just rumour and wait until the actual Codex or evidence comes out before we cry cheese. As it should be - but rarely is - with every rumoured Codex release.
Add "gullible" to the list of adjectives describing many of the comments in this thread along with "goofy", and "groundless". How's that for alliteration?
My previous post was quite facetious and was intended as a response to the usual ridiculous, over-the-top waffling on here about things that have scant to do with the original post, Necron release rumors. Even many of the posts that are relevant to the topic seem to be written by people with a little too much time on their hands to worry about things that are virtually of no consequence.
If it's this bad now I can't wait to see the apoplectic posts that will appear here once the models and book are actually revealed.
BrassScorpion wrote:Add "gullible" to the list of adjectives describing many of the comments in this thread along with "goofy", and "groundless". How's that for alliteration?
My previous post was quite facetious and was intended as a response to the usual ridiculous, over-the-top waffling on here about things that have scant to do with the original post, Necron release rumors. Even many of the posts that are relevant to the topic seem to be written by people with a little too much time on their hands to worry about things that are virtually of no consequence.
Agreed. It's kind of scary that people can go from "Wow, this is bad fluff" to "OMG MY ARMY IS BEING SQUATTED!".
If it's this bad now I can't wait to see the apoplectic posts that will appear here once the models and book are actually revealed.
yakface wrote:For the 'new' WBB rule, I was dreading seeing yet another army with Feel No Pain yet the existing WBB rule is just TERRIBLE to play with. The new rule seems like a nice compromise. While its only on a 5+ now instead of a 4+, the fact that you get to take that save against any type of weaponry means that in certain situations its going to net you about the same amount of resiliency that the current WBB does, in some situations it will net you less and in some situations it will net you more. Also, the opponent knows exatly what he needs to do to cancel out the save (wipe the unit out or break it), so the old strategy of pounding on individual Necron units until you wipe them out remains in place. And we have no idea what units have the 'ever-living' rule or if there are any things that provide that rule to other units (maybe like the resurrection Orb?), so there may be plenty of different ways to help bolster this new WBB rule in the army.
While I think that FnP is entirely too widespread at the moment, of all the armies that have FnP, Necrons are probably the most deserving. I would not say WBB is terrible to play with, it just needs to be written with more clarification on how it works. I agree that it's difficult to really assess the impact of any of your rumors without more details, but if we are going to comment on them, we only have what was posted to make an initial assessment. The biggest drawback (aside from phase out) to playing necrons is not addressed. The x2 toughness and armor ignoring weapons in CC were never really a problem for us in the past as a smart player would know when and where to have rez orb coverage, and how to protect that coverage. As it stands with the new rule, oppossing players will just do what they've always done, go for a sweeping advance which negates everything the crons can do.
And the rumors indicate that at least one of the new transports will help regenerate dead guys, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few different things in the army that now do that...so that's a different kind of resurrection dynamic now added to the army.
Sounds cool, and I'd like to see how it works...just lose the transport.
With Gauss Weaponry not being rending, again that's kind of a relief. Making the entire army have rending would have likely meant they were just too potent. Instead they've left Gauss with the auto-glance rule (which isn't too powerful with 5th edition damage tables), but in order to make up for this, it sounds like they're getting a much wider diversity of weapon types that will allow them to fill the gaps. So instead of just having about 3 different weapon types in the whole army, they now have a bit of different things for people to play with.
Again...it's too hard to say how this will play out with out seeing what exactly is available where and at what cost. Personally, I think that if you can make an army work by giving every Tom, Dick, and Harry a force weapon, rending shouldn't be too much of an issue if done right.
Phase out, while fluffy just didn't work for things like tournaments, and should really be relegated to things like Apocalypse or fun games (so I'm glad its gone).
I'd say I'm glad it's gone in the sense that the whole army phases out...I would have much prefered something along the lines of phase out chance at the unit level however.
Destroyers moving to Jump Infantry makes sense if they've added a bunch of Jetbikes and Fast Skimmers to the army (as it sounds like they've had). Before the Destroyers were the 'fast' element of the army. But if that role has been taken over by other things, it makes sense from a diverse gameplay perspective to have Destroyers move into a slightly slower role...and really the only big change is that they can't turbo-boost (but now you have other stuff that can move that fast instead).
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Destroyers were fine as they were. Like I said before, once the details come out, my money is on a nerf just so GW can sell new stuff. I mean really? They couldn't have made the new stuff JI instead?
Immortals as a troops choice should be fine. Just as with every other codex, it sounds like you'll be able to go with a more Elite style Necron army or a wall of Necron warrior army...you'll have the choice and hopefully both units will have distinct advantages (likely point cost vs. effectiveness) that will make you want to take one over the other.
Meh, it's fine...but I'd rather have a base CC oriented troop (Flayed Ones), with a special character able to upgrade Immortals to scoring.
Having named characters and making the upper echelons more sentiment sounds cool to me, mainly because it will add a bunch of much needed flavor and backstory into the army. While they are automatons, they are also supposed to be the remains of an ancient civilization and there's no reason their great champions still can't have distinct and flavorful histories and special rules.
I agree 100%
As for adding vehicles...everyone is assuming that the 'fluff' behind the transports is that they carry Necrons. One indication I've gotten is that the theme behind least one of the new transports is still teleportation based. So while it may behave like a typical transport, the look and fluff behind it would still be that the unit is teleporting in using the vehicle's node (perhaps it has a limited node and can only lock onto so many models at a time?). And with the other vehicle which is apparently actually carting models around, perhaps this is the Lord/Retinue ride? Kind of like a super chariot where his entourage and him swoop around killing people? Again, people are somehow assuming that because the Necrons now have transport vehicles it somehow means they don't teleport anymore. But why can't the Lord & his entourage teleport down to the surface before the battle on their ride? Why would EVERYTHING in the army have to teleport instead of being carried? Why can't some stuff teleport and some stuff ride around in a killer ride?
Vehicles are fine, I have no problem with that. I have a problem with them completely throwing a very cool and fluffy alternative to mech armies out the window for the sake of selling new toys.
I don't see the problem. I personally thought the Necron army as a whole just lacked diversity and it sounds like they're getting quite a few new units, so I think its great. There's only so many different ways you can have armored robots walking or flying around, so frankly a slew of new vehicles is really the natural direction to go to add new units to the range.
New units and toys are great, but selling out the soul and feel of an army for them sucks. I know that's what GW is in business for, but they can do it in a way that better retains the originality of the army.
And having Crypteks (the Lord's retinue) that are more sentient than your standard Necron warrior being attached to units is exactly what I was hoping the army would have. It allows your plain jane Necron units to have a bit of difference while still keeping the basic premise that your Warrior units are all the same...its just a Cryptek has broken off to lead the unit that makes the difference between unit A and unit B.
This is essentially what I hoped for Pariahs (with a couple tweeks), so if they are Pariahs 2.0, then I'm all for it.
But as always, it will ultimately come down to how the new models fit in the range. If they pull off the look of the new stuff, I don't see why the army can't finally be both unique from other armies AND more fun to play (as you now have much more diversity amongst your units as a Necron player).
That's the problem though, they are making the army less unique in many ways, and that's what has many Cron players like myself upset....assuming this set of rumors is true.
Kanluwen wrote:And with Tyranid players you get a sense of entitlement that is ridiculous.
While I generally agree with the rest of what you said, don't try and make it like Tyranid players are the worst at this. You'd get the same reactions out of any other armie's players if they had the same thing happen.
Finally something that I can belive! Thanks yakface! New cron dex seems to include much new stuff but hope that there will be more new infantry units. Just cant wait!
Maelstrom808 wrote:While I generally agree with the rest of what you said, don't try and make it like Tyranid players are the worst at this. You'd get the same reactions out of any other armie's players if they had the same thing happen.
I hate to say it: but you really don't. There's complaints from the Chaos players, but you have to be blind to not know that those are justified.
Maelstrom808 wrote:While I generally agree with the rest of what you said, don't try and make it like Tyranid players are the worst at this. You'd get the same reactions out of any other armie's players if they had the same thing happen.
I hate to say it: but you really don't. There's complaints from the Chaos players, but you have to be blind to not know that those are justified.
As are the majority of the Tyranid complaints. They can still compete (as can Chaos), but GW has done nothing but poo on them since the release of the codex.
